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Is the world still committed to human rights? Our Inside Geneva podcast is in Strasbourg, where the Council of Europe is discussing how to defend the fundamental principles we agreed upon after the Second World War.
“We can’t just say, ‘Do it because it’s a human right’ or ‘Do it because it’s in a treaty.’ We have to demonstrate: ‘Do it, and this is how it will make your society better and stronger,’” says Michael O’Flaherty, Human Rights Commissioner at the Council of Europe.
With autocracies in Russia and China and uncertain times ahead in the US, can Europe hold the line?
“If Europe doesn’t get this right, I can guarantee you it will not be good for Europe. It will be worse in the rest of the world as well, so it’s a vicious spiral,” continues Peggy Hicks, UN Human Rights.
But even in Europe, the commitment to human rights is sometimes weak.
“For many, human rights are a bit of an afterthought in our policy. It’s something to make us feel good about ourselves,” says Olof Skoog, the EU’s Special Representative for Human Rights.
We also talked to Sofia Moschin, student and human rights defender, who said that “inside Europe, there are constant violations of human rights, so I don’t agree with the narrative that Europe is a human rights champion.”
We also talked to Sofia Moschin, a student and human rights defender, who said, “Inside Europe, there are constant violations of human rights, so I don’t agree with the narrative that Europe is a human rights champion.”
How should Europe stand up for its values?
“I’m not going to accept defeatism. Get furious – that’s what we need to do now. Don’t throw in the towel, don’t surrender. Get indignant, get furious and fight back to save this astonishing achievement,” says O’Flaherty.
Join host Imogen Foulkes on the latest episode of our Inside Geneva podcast to listen to these interviews in full.Get in touch!
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This week Inside Geneva goes to New York. The United Nations (UN) General Assembly is hearing multiple reports of serious human rights violations.
“I think it’s more difficult to get the human rights message [across] here in New York at the General Assembly. But hopefully we will be heard,” says Mariana Katzarova, UN special rapporteur on human rights in Russia.
Ukraine, the Middle East and Sudan are on the agenda. But so is the situation of human rights groups inside Russia.
“The situation with political prisoners in Russia today is no longer a crisis, it’s a catastrophe. We now have more political prisoners in Russia alone than there were in the whole of the Soviet Union, so that’s 15 countries put together,” says Vladimir Kara-Murza, a former political prisoner.
In Geneva, the Human Rights Council can order investigations – but will New York respond?
“There is Gaza, the situation in Sudan, Myanmar, Syria – so many conflicts and humanitarian disasters, and there’s an inability of member states to reach an agreement,” says Louis Charbonneau, UN Director at Human Rights Watch NGO.
The UN Security Council, dominated by the US, China, Russia, the United Kingdom and France, can’t agree – so it’s paralysed.“I do have moments where I perhaps would like to stand up in the middle of the chamber and say: ‘Hey, do something!’ But that’s not professional and I would lose my press pass,” says journalist Dawn Clancy.
The UN’s main role is upholding peace and security. Is New York failing?
“For peace and security, human rights are the core. Without human rights we cannot have peace or security,” says Katzarova.
Join host Imogen Foulkes for Inside Geneva – in New York!Get in touch!
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On Inside Geneva this week we talk to the people behind a new book about life in Gaza, told through the words of those who live there.
“People are actually travelling in the middle of a war, in the middle of Gaza at midnight – the peak of the risk, if you like – to get somewhere where they can get a better internet so they can actually talk to us,” says Mahmoud Muna, editor of Daybreak in Gaza.
This book, edited by Mahmoud Muna and Matthew Teller with Juliette Touma and Jayyab Abusafia, is about history, culture, food, music and life.
“It’s not a football game. This is about our humanity and it’s about being able to sympathise with people wherever they are. This is not about taking sides. It’s about whether we’re human or not,” says Touma.
“This book does not give voice to the voiceless. The people of Gaza, like people everywhere, have voices. The point of this book is not to give a voice; the point of this book is to amplify the voices of the people who are not being listened to,” continues Teller.
In this episode, we also ask why human rights groups are uneasy about the upcoming UN Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Azerbaijan.
“Dozens have been arrested in the months leading up to COP29, including 16 journalists, other society activists, and NGO leaders. There is still time for Azerbaijan to set the record straight, and they should release them. The UN should engage with Azerbaijan to ensure that it does so,” says Giorgi Gogia from Human Rights Watch.
Tales from life in Gaza, climate change, and human rights. Catch this and more in the latest episode of our Inside Geneva podcast.Get in touch!
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The presidential elections in the United States (US) are just a couple of weeks away. What will they mean for international affairs, for Ukraine, for the Middle East, for humanitarian work, for international law and for the United Nations (UN) in Geneva?
“When I was in the US, I definitely saw that there is no interest for anything called multilateralism or collaboration globally. Because it’s a matter of support – political, financial and moral support for international questions and for international Geneva. I think Europe is there, yes, but I don’t think Europe will be able to match the US,” says Swedish journalist Gunilla von Hall.
Does it even matter who wins? Or is the waning support for multilateralism part of a bigger problem?
“Is multilateralism a system that allows all countries to deal with each other in a civil and non-violent way where common interest prevails? Or is it the appearance of a system that allows the continued hegemony of the old powers after the Second World War?” says Tammam Aloudat head of the international medical aid charity Médecins sans Frontières (MSF) Netherlands.
“There are two words that are key here. One is the notion of polarisation, not only in the United States, but internationally. We see it in Geneva, we see it everywhere. The second is the word transactional. Everything seems to be transactional: ‘what’s in this for me?’ instead of someone coming in and saying: ‘for the common good'," adds analyst Daniel Warner.
Would the multilateral system even be better off without the US?
“I don't think we can afford to sit in an arena where our hope for multilateralism, which still is in the UN and its institutions, [means we are] sitting still, taking the constant bullying of the United States,” says Aloudat.
Join host Imogen Foulkes on our Inside Geneva podcast to discover how important the US still is these days.
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It’s been one year since the October 7 attack by Hamas on Israel. Twelve months of violent conflict have followed, with tens of thousands dead. We look back at our coverage over the past year.
“What we have to deal with is the immense stupidity of the wars that currently are in place. And here we are having to deal with wars of a sort that were better found in the history books devoted to the 20th century and ought not to have a place in the 21st,” said Zeid Ra’ad al Hussein, former United Nations Human Rights Commissioner.
How have the aid agencies coped?“People tend to believe we can do things that we cannot do. We have no army. We have no weapons,” said Fabrizio Carboni, regional director for the Near and Middle East at the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).
How do they respond to critics who believe they should do more?
“If we could release them all we would do it as soon as possible. If we could visit them we would visit them. And at the same time it takes place in an environment which is Gaza,” added Carboni.
Why are we so quick to war, and so slow to peace?
“There’s a focus on the centrality of my pain, the pain my community feels and I feel, and I want the world to stand with me whoever I may be, and I demand it as a recognition of my suffering. But then the obvious question is, but how often do we, as individuals, side with others who are experiencing pain,” said al Hussein.
Join host Imogen Foulkes for this special episode of the Inside Geneva podcast.
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For 40 years, there has been an absolute ban on torture. But it still happens…
“Horrific things can happen to you. Nobody is there to help you. Nobody is there to document it, etc. And I think sometimes we speak about torture without putting ourselves in the shoes of what this is,” says Gerald Staberock from the World Organisation Against Torture.
On our Inside Geneva podcast this week, host Imogen Foulkes finds out how the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment came about.
“The convention came in the 1980s, arising out of terrible situations in Latin America, the dictatorships in Chile and Argentina in particular. And of course, torture, enforced disappearances, and killings were used as a matter of course to suppress their populations and to suppress opposition,” explains Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture.
Today, some say torture might be justified in certain circumstances.
“We didn’t outlaw torture because it works or not. We didn’t outlaw slavery because it doesn’t work. We didn’t outlaw robbery because it doesn’t work, but because it is wrong,” says Staberock.
As of today, 174 states have ratified the convention…but are they honouring it?
“There is pushback, it’s definitely on the rise I would say because torture is also on the rise. Torture is universally condemned but widely practised,” continues Edwards.
How should we mark the 40th anniversary?
“So much more has to be done to really eradicate torture. We have to recognise that it is still a problem, and we have to recognise it as a problem. For a torturer, for individuals, for society. A society that tortures is a sick society,” says Staberock.
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This month the United Nations (UN) will host the ‘Summit of the Future’ in New York. What's the point of this high-level event? Inside Geneva investigates.
“The UN is not an entity that does anything. I mean, we can all blame it, but what is the UN? It’s just the sum of its parts: the governments,” says Christiane Oelrich, journalist for the DPA German Press Agency.Is the UN’s 1945 structure even fit for purpose?
“Historically the UN for many people is still associated with the West. And the question of including the global south still haunts the UN,” continues analyst Daniel Warner.
Does the UN have an answer to today’s brutal, intractable conflicts?
“Since World War Two there have been plenty of conflicts, but what we have seen in the last three or four or five years is the use of aggression and violence as an instrument of foreign policy. Yes, that’s right,” says Nick Cumming-Bruce, contributor for the New York Times.
Can more peaceful nations rescue the UN’s purpose?
“The fact that some countries follow the path of aggression doesn't mean that all the rest of the world has to talk about failure now,” adds Oelrich.
And is the summit a gamble for UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres?
“We should tip a hat to Antonio Guterres for even trying to do this given all of the stuff that's going on,” says Imogen Foulkes, Inside Geneva presenter.
Join us on Inside Geneva to find out more about what we can expect from this summit.
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The World Trade Organisation (WTO) Public Forum is underway in Geneva and its key theme is ‘re-globalisation’. Are we nervous of that word? Inside Geneva sat down with WTO officials to find out what it means.
“Trade has been a very powerful force for reducing between-country inequality. Since 1995, for example, since the foundation of the WTO, extreme poverty in the world has been reduced from 40% to 10%, because of growth in many countries that was also export-led,” says Ralph Ossa, WTO chief economist.
Many ordinary people think global trade makes them poorer. How can it benefit them?
“At the WTO, our members have gotten together and many of them have formed a working group on trade and gender to especially put the lens of women to trade policy and to see what more can be done so that they can take advantage of opportunities,” says Johanna Hill, WTO Deputy Director.
The WTO doesn’t tell countries how to run their industries, but it does hope they can learn from one another.
“Perhaps one member might say, ‘Well, you know, supporting women in my country has really been a tremendous success. Because now we see higher growth rates, lower poverty rates and so on. Why don't you give it a try yourself?’” says Ossa.
Can global trade help us face global challenges?
“Nobody questions the importance of regulating to protect the environment or to protect health - everybody agrees on that. It’s the how that might be the question,” says Hill.
Join host Imogen Foulkes for a trade special on Inside Geneva.
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Conflict-related sexual violence has existed for as long as war itself – forever.
“It is a weapon of war. I would say it’s a weapon of mass destruction. It is really maximising harm,” says Esther Dingemans, Executive Director of the Global Survivors Fund.
In Inside Geneva’s final summer profile, we talk to a woman working to support survivors of sexual violence…from Sudan, to Ukraine, to Syria, or Chad.
“Young girls have been raped in front of their parents. Fathers are bound to chairs and forced to watch that. Or that an older – a woman in her 80s is raped in front of her son-in-law,” says Dingemans.
The 1949 Geneva Convention prohibits wartime rape and enforced prostitution. But even today there are few prosecutions. And what about the survivors?
“Survivors doubt themselves. Most victims of sexual violence will always question themselves. ‘Am I to blame?’” explains Dingemans.
The Global Survivors Fund works for reparation – not just money, but health care, counselling, and above all, recognition of the harm done.
“What is really important, particularly for survivors of sexual violence - which is often surrounded by so much shame and stigma - is that they are acknowledged, that harm has been done to them, and that it was not their fault,” concludes Dingemans.
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It’s three years since the Taliban took back control in Afghanistan. Inside Geneva talks to an Afghan human rights defender.
“I was scared and I could see it coming. Yes, I mean, I think for the women of Afghanistan, we knew that the Taliban taking over would mean a dark future for women,” says Fereshta Abbasi from Human Rights Watch.
In three years, women’s rights have been steadily, and brutally, repressed.
“No matter what we have done in the past three years, we haven’t been able to reverse a single decree of the Taliban that is restricting women’s rights,” continues Abbasi.
“In 2024, Afghanistan remains the only country in the world where women do not have access to education beyond the sixth grade. Women do not have the right to most employment. Women do not have the right to freedom of movement. Women do not have the right to protest and assemble. So, I think we need to speak about it,” says Abbasi.
What can we do to support Afghan women?
“I think it’s very important to stand with them, to listen to them, and to amplify their voices. It’s very difficult to think of a better Afghanistan, a brighter future for women under Taliban rule. And I don’t want to think about that. I want to believe and hold my strength together, that this madness cannot last.”
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Join us for a special extra edition of Inside Geneva to mark World Humanitarian Day, with testimonies from aid workers who have given their all – and who have often lost a great deal.
“So I had taken him to the airport together with our child, and, yes, it took me in fact many years to be able to use the same elevator in the airport where I last kissed him,” says Laura Dolci.
Dolci’s young husband Jean-Selim was killed, just weeks after the birth of their son, in the bombing of the UN’s headquarters in Baghdad in 2003.
Twenty years on, WHO cameraman Chris Black was sent to Gaza, to support, and document, medical care there.
“Something I really will never forget is a woman, with a young child, saying to me: ‘Are we safe here?’ And I wanted to say: ‘Yes, you're in the grounds of a hospital, under international humanitarian law this is a protected space, you should be safe here.’ But I couldn't say to her: ‘You're safe here,’” says Black.
More than 200 aid workers have been killed in Gaza since October 7, 2023.
“People have told me oh you must be very brave for going to Gaza. And I don't think so. I think what's brave is the people who have been doing this work since early October and who go back every day to do it again and again and again,” continues Black.
“The aid worker, the humanitarian worker, the peacekeeper; ultimately it's a human being that decides to put its own being to the service of humanity,” says Dolci.
Join host Imogen Foulkes on Inside Geneva for an inspiring listen.
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In the fourth episode of our summer profile series on Inside Geneva, we talk to a Geneva career woman and a Geneva asylum-seeker about a project to unite communities through sport. Surely the world’s humanitarian capital is good at welcoming refugees and immigrants?
“We have all these international organisations working on various global challenges. But when you talk to people from Geneva, they don’t really know what’s happening in this bubble,” says Lena Menge, from the Geneva Graduate Institute and co-founder of Flag 21.
For asylum-seekers, arriving in a new country, even a safe one, can be hard.
“I was very lonely. It wasn’t easy. You feel lost and don’t really know what’s happening or where you are. It takes time to realise where you are and what you are supposed to do,” says Mahdie Alinejad, an asylum-seeker from Iran and a coach with Flag 21.
Flag 21 is a project that brings locals and asylum-seekers together – to run, swim, do yoga, and much more.
“Sport was actually a meaningful tool to include people in need, people that needed a community around them as well,” continues Menge.
The project benefits everyone.
“It’s not easy to have this confidence and grow in society as an immigrant. So this is a very good thing that they’re doing, giving opportunities to people who really need it, to find themselves, their space, their place and their confidence,” says Alinejad.
“They have such resilience and so much strength to share that you come away thinking ‘my God, my little problems are really nothing’,” concludes Menge.
Join host Imogen Foulkes on Inside Geneva to listen to the full interview.
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On Inside Geneva, we bring you part three of our summer profile series. This week we talk to a doctor looking for treatments for some of the world’s most neglected diseases.
“Neglect means that there are diseases that affect an important proportion of humanity but for which no new drugs have been developed because there is no money in it. Because they affect very poor populations in remote rural areas,” explains Olaf Valverde, clinical project leader at Drugs for Neglected Diseases (DNDi).Valverde is the clinical lead on a project looking for treatments for sleeping sickness.
“It’s a disease caused by a small parasite that almost always kills if untreated. During the first half of the 20th century there were huge epidemics. It not only destroyed communities but also caused the desertification of entire regions of Africa,” he adds.
Cases of sleeping sickness with no effective treatment had been rising again until DNDi began combing medical trials – some abandoned by big drug companies as not profitable – for other options. They found one promising lead and began testing in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).
“The motivation, concentration and interest shown by our doctors in the DRC who were developing the clinical trial, were totally amazing. For them it was an opportunity to serve their people. And that was absolutely beautiful,” says Valverde.
The drug worked and sleeping sickness is on the way to being eradicated.
“I think this is what I always wanted to do; to do something that could be helpful to others. And this is what satisfies me. Just seeing that people have opportunities.”
Join host Imogen Foulkes on Inside Geneva to listen to the full interview.
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Here’s episode two of our summer profiles series on the Inside Geneva podcast. We talk to the head of one of the world’s leading humanitarian agencies. We start with his first assignment in Darfur, in western Sudan.
“As I was one day building the shelter I realised for the first time in many years I hadn't thought of what’s next? I wasn’t thinking everyday where do I go from here, what do I do, what’s my plan? I’d just been so absorbed in the work,” Chris Lockyear, Secretary General of Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) told host Imogen Foulkes.
We also discuss the current crisis in Gaza, where, amid terrible destruction, MSF is providing medical care.
"What are we [on] now 37,000 people killed? It’s astonishing. Neighbourhood after neighbourhood after neighbourhood which has been completely flattened,” continues Lockyear.
In Gaza, MSF staff have met children as young as five, who said they wished to die.
“They've been going through this for months and months and months, and the brutality of what is happening, what they’re living through, yes, people are saying that they would rather end it than continue. And that can't be a surprise to us.”
MSF has been outspoken when it believes international law has been violated:
“What does it mean elsewhere? How could this be translated into other countries? Into Sudan, into the future if we can operate as a world with such impunity? Where does that leave us?” says Lockyear.
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On Inside Geneva, we’re bringing you a series of summer profiles, from doctors in war zones to researchers into the diseases that affect the world’s poorest.
Today, we talk to international human rights lawyer Antonia Mulvey, who devotes herself to defending women.
“With many of those that we work with, who have been subjected to sexual violence, part of it is listening to them, hearing them, acknowledging what has happened,” Mulvey says.
From Somalia, to Sudan, or Lebanon, Mulvey and her colleagues offer support and advice, but the women affected are always in control.
“Some have the courage and bravery to step forward, and we represent them in legal cases. But they have to lead the way,” she adds.
Mulvey also hopes to inspire other women.
“Let’s step up, let’s work with women, let’s work with women’s groups, to take more cases, to keep challenging it, to keep pushing that door open,” Mulvey concludes.
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Geneva is the home of international law, the rules that are supposed to stop the worst violations in war. But does anyone respect it anymore?
Please watch the video version of this episode on YouTube.Andrew Clapham, Professor of International Law at the Geneva Graduate Institute, says: “It’s quite blatant that when we like what the International Criminal Court is doing we will support it, but as soon as it steps out of line we will call it a ridiculous institution. So, it is a bit of a crossroads for international law.”
The Geneva Conventions are 75 years old – are young people even aware of them?
“We have the law, and at least my generation or younger generations tolerate much less those types of violations, and we are reporting more,” says Cristina Figueira Shah, international law student and co-President of the Human Rights, Conflict and Peace Initiative.
Are there any rules of war that work?
Laurent Gisel, Head of the Arms and Conduct of Hostilities Unit at the Legal Division of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), explains that “far fewer people know about the prohibition of blinding laser weapons than the mine ban treaty. Why? Because it has been prohibited before they were developed. And it was prohibited 50 years ago.”
Does indicting a political leader achieve more than headlines?
“Naming somebody as a potential war criminal has a huge effect because if the leader is named as a war criminal, like President Putin or Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, that means that assisting them to do what they are doing means that you are aiding and assisting, potentially, in a war crime,” says Clapham.
How can we encourage more respect?
“I think we should go back and understand all the reasons why we got to this point in the first place. How we wrote all the international treaties and understand from that what our generation can do to improve it,” says Shah.
“Violation of international humanitarian law creates even more hatred. And if you want to live in peace afterwards, it helps to respect international humanitarian law during the conflict,” says Gisel.
Join Imogen Foulkes for an Inside Geneva special from Geneva’s Graduate Institute where experts and audience ask: “Is international law dead”?
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In this week’s episode of our Inside Geneva podcast, we revisit our coverage of laws that changed the world.
Save the Date for a live recordingWe’d like to invite you to a live recording session of our Inside Geneva podcast about the role of the Geneva Conventions and international law. Mark your calendars - June 5, 2024, from 12:30am to 13:30pm - at the Geneva Graduate Institute. Registration is required to secure your spot here. If you have any questions, please email us at [email protected].
From the Convention against Landmines:
"The very day that I entered the hospital for war victims, I realised that all these patients were without one or two legs," said Dr Alberto Cairo from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).
"Every day, just about, somebody was injured by a landmine, and they were rushed off to Khao-I-Dang hospital to have their legs amputated," said nurse Denise Coghlan, in Cambodia.
The convention was adopted in 1997.
Steve Goose, from Human Rights Watch, says: "This has been an extremely successful treaty, because it has saved so many lives, and so many limbs, and so many livelihoods."
But landmines still cause huge harm.
"Every morning when I get up in the morning I put on my artificial leg. That’s something that I will do every day for the rest of my life," said Stuart Hughes, a landmine survivor.
We have a convention against genocide, but is it enough?
Ken Roth, human rights expert, says: "People feel like, if you don’t call it genocide, then it’s not serious. And that’s a mistake."
"We have a genocide convention, and we don’t have a crimes against humanity convention, at least not yet," said Paola Gaeta, professor at the Geneva Graduate Institute.
And the Convention against Enforced Disappearances – a protection for families as well as the disappeared.
Cordula Droege, from the ICRC, says: "Victims of enforced disappearances are not only those who are disappeared but also those who suffer directly from it, such as the relatives."
"He was taken by armed men, and taken to a car, a red car without a plate number, and he disappeared," said Aileen Bacalso.
Olivier de Frouville, UN expert on enforced disappearances, adds: "That’s why we describe also for the relatives, who are victims of enforced disappearances, we describe it as torture, because this is real torture."
Inside Geneva hears from the people who campaigned to make our world safer, and asks, are we honouring their laws and their sacrifices?
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Four years ago, our lives were upended by the Covid-19 pandemic. Countries locked down, millions became ill, millions died. And when the vaccine finally arrived, it was not fairly distributed. Rich countries bought too many, poor countries waited, with nothing.
“What we saw during the Covid-19 pandemic was collapse. Basically, a complete failure of international cooperation,” says Suerie Moon of Geneva Graduate Institute’s Global Health Centre.
Surely we can do better? Countries are gathering in Geneva to try to hammer out a pandemic treaty. Do they have the vision? And the courage?
“There’s been so much lip service paid to equity, but when it actually comes to nailing down what that means, and how to avoid a repeat, it seems like governments are struggling,” says Kerry Cullinan, deputy editor of Health Policy Watch.
What about the vaccine manufacturers? Are they ready to share?
Thomas Cueni former head of the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers told us in 2023: “I’ve always been of the view that no treaty is better than a bad treaty. Have a good treaty, I think it would be great.”
David Reddy, the new director-general of IFPMA, adds that they “remain committed to providing the expertise and know-how of our companies to global efforts to prepare for and respond to future pandemics.”Are we going to be better equipped for the next pandemic?
“I think it would be an insult to the seven million people plus who died during the pandemic for there not to be a historic agreement,” says Cullinan.
Join host Imogen Foulkes on our Inside Geneva podcast to learn more about this treaty.
This text was updated on May 16, 2024, to mention that Thomas Cueni is now the former head of the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers. The interview mentioned in the podcast was recorded in 2023.Get in touch!
Email us at [email protected] Twitter: @ImogenFoulkes and @swissinfo_enThank you for listening! If you like what we do, please leave a review or subscribe to our newsletter.
For more stories on the international Geneva please visit www.swissinfo.ch/
Host: Imogen Foulkes
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In the wars in Ukraine and in the Middle East, new, autonomous weapons are being used. Our Inside Geneva podcast asks whether we’re losing the race to control them – and the artificial intelligence systems that run them.
“Autonomous weapons systems raise significant moral, ethical, and legal problems challenging human control over the use of force and handing over life-and-death decision-making to machines,” says Sai Bourothu, specialist in automated decision research with the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots.
How can we be sure an autonomous weapon will do what we humans originally intended? Who’s in control?
Jean-Marc Rickli from the Geneva Centre for Security Policy adds: “AI and machine learning basically lead to a situation where the machine is able to learn. And so now, if you talk to specialists, to scientists, they will tell you that it's a black box, we don't understand, it's very difficult to backtrack.”
Our listeners asked if an autonomous weapon could show empathy? Could it differentiate between a fighter and a child? Last year, an experiment asked patients to rate chatbot doctors versus human doctors.
“Medical chatbots ranked much better in the quality. But they also asked them to rank empathy. And on the empathy dimension they also ranked better. If that is the case, then you opened up a Pandora’s box that will be completely transformative for disinformation,” explains Rickli.
Are we going to lose our humanity because we think machines are not only more reliable, but also kinder?
“I think it's going to be an incredibly immense task to code something such as empathy. I think almost as close to the question of whether machines can love,” says Bourothu.
Join host Imogen Foulkes on the Inside Geneva podcast to learn more about this topic.
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The world is marking 30 years since the Rwandan genocide. Inside Geneva talks to those who witnessed it.
“We came to one village where there were a few survivors and a man came to me with a list and said ‘look, the names have been crossed out one by one, entire families, they were killing everybody from those families,’” says Christopher Stokes, from Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders).
Charles Petrie, former United Nations (UN) humanitarian coordinator, recalls: “She thought there was a good chance that the Interahamwe [militia] would find the kids, the children, and she said, ‘pray that they don’t hack them to death, pray that they shoot them’”.
Why was it not prevented?
“The paralysis of the UN system, the paralysis of all the major players to respond to what was pretty clearly a massive genocidal operation,” says Gareth Evans, former Australian foreign minister.
Senior diplomats worked to make the UN stronger in the face of atrocities.
“Instead of talking about the right to intervene, we talked about the responsibility to protect. There are some kinds of behaviour which are just inconceivably beyond the pale, whatever country we live in, and just do demand this response,” says Evans.
Has “responsibility to protect”, or R2P, worked?
“I don’t think there’s been significant progress. I would say actually that we went from perhaps a hope, an illusion that something would be done to actually not expecting anything at all now,” says Stokes.
Join host Imogen Foulkes on the Inside Geneva podcast.
Get in touch!
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