Afleveringen
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Welcome back idiotprogrammer, Robert Nagle, to OoO’s longstanding mini-feature.
In it, he mentions an article from 2000 by Courtney Love and follows up, “https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/ Courtney Loe wrote this long screed in 2000!
Re-reading it, I see that her take was on the mark. I'm in the publishing business and face some of the same issues (sort of).
A lot of older authors have a hard time getting their rights back (It's called rights reversion), but there is a process for doing so. The labels grabbed a bit too much in the 1990s especially before digital sales was a significant chunk of their sales. But it all depends on your contract; if musicians got legal representation, they could know these things in advance, but labels signed people very quickly in the 1990s without musicians getting legal advice. labels used to be a little too controlling of the small number of ubercelebrities they signed on.”
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OoO did not intend to take a three-month hiatus, but we’re glad to be back with idiotprogrammer, Robert Nagle.
DJ Poseur claims that DL is the best rock band to have its whole discography on Bandcamp on a “name your price” basis: https://dolefullions.bandcamp.com/
Find S&S’s debut on Discogs: https://www.discogs.com/master/107485-SavathSavalas-Folk-Songs-For-Trains-Trees-And-Honey
STRUCTURE: War in Europe for Ukrainian & Russian Music (to 9:25) Doleful Lions “Out Like a Lamb” (9:25-16:00) Other critics & genre, Lazarus as a song premise (16:00-24:00) Being tame —> longevity? Bandcamp’s future in licensing. Downsides of consistency (24:00-27:52) Doleful Lions “Look Homeward Angel Numbers,” Ratings, RIYLs (27:52-31:17) Comparison of very different album picks & Robert’s thoughts on Savath & Savalas, how excited to be about mellow music (31:17-44:08) Savath & Savalas “Folk Songs for Trees, Trains and Honey” electronic music around the turn of the 21st century (44:08-48:45) AMG & Pitchfork on S&S & what ambient is and is not, elderly electronic listeners, live music & instrumental music, unpredictability in repetitive musical styles (48:45-1:00:30) What we listened to that our parents couldn’t stand, DJ Poseur goes racist to describe styles of music he doesn’t like in misinterpretation of a question about Thai musical tastes, Trip-hop & downtempo versus jazz & lounge music, RIYLs (1:00:30-1:06:25) Rating S&S (1:06:25 to conclusion).
In the Ukraine war intro, Robert does a great job with examples of how musicians on all sides are responding. UKRAINIAN MUSIC FOREVER!! Robert's "Ukraine Pop Music is Cool" Playlist on Spotify. https://spoti.fi/3MnVNTn Also a Youtube playlist: https://bit.ly/3vMpeIL As always, check out his blog for more media. http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/
We also mention “Russian folk singers with a message” such as Alexander Rozenbaum.
Album reviews for “Out Like a Lamb”: https://chicagoreader.com/music/local-indie-rockers-doleful-lions-have-long-been-overlooked-but-theyve-never-lost-their-spark/ , https://chicagoreader.com/music/local-indie-rockers-doleful-lions-have-long-been-overlooked-but-theyve-never-lost-their-spark/ . AMG thinks very highly of them but hasn’t updated their discography https://www.allmusic.com/artist/doleful-lions-mn0000141712 . Two others get the Pitchfork treatment https://pitchfork.com/artists/1261-doleful-lions/ .
DJ Poseur can’t take psychedelic folk rock revivalism very seriously due to Spinal Tap’s “Listen to the Flower People”
“Out Like a Lamb” is RIYL: The Beatles, The Beach Boys, His Name Is Alive, "Kumbaya", Junip/Jose Gonzalez, Simon & Garfunkel, Mamas and the Papas, Paul Simon, Jimmy Dale Gilmore, Papas Fritas.
“Look Homeward Angel Numbers” is RIYL: The Faint, Caesars, Many Birthdays, Dandy Warhols, Gentlemen
DJ Poseur owns most of and recommends the entirety of the Hefty Records catalog for fans of instrumental, post-rock, experimental but still accessible downtempo electronica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hefty_Records .
The cohost and DJ Poseur disagree on whether DL would be RIYL or overall sounds similar to Of Montreal for their psychedelic chameleon rock discographies that vary over decades from the 1990s to the 2020s.
“Folk Songs for Trains, Trees and Honey” is RIYL: Bonobo, Boards of Canada, Thievery Corporation (& full stable of ESL Music in Washington D.C. = Eighteenth Street Lounge Music), DJ Farina’s “Mushroom Jazz”.
The rest of S&S’s discography is RIYL: Devendra Banhart, Junip/Jose Gonzalez, Cass McCombs
A very old Pitchfork review of it: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/7007-folk-songs-for-trains-trees-and-honey/
Robert’s favorite mellow music comes from Polly Scattergood & Goldfrapp, both comparable in his view to Stevie Nicks. Also
Australian singer Princess Chelsea .
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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It’s been a long, unscheduled hiatus for OoO, but here’s a morsel of what we’ll talk about in OoO EI4, currently being edited. The albums up for arrangement from most to least famous in this quiz are as follows:
A. Dandy Warhols - "Thirteen Tales from Urban Bohemia" (2000). B. The Apples in Stereo - "Fun Trick Noisemaker" (1995). C. The Vryll Society - "Course of the Satellite" (2018). D. Doleful Lions - "Out Like a Lamb" (2002). E. Gentlemen - "Secret Memories" (2020). F. The Everly Brothers - "Roots" (1968). G. Guided by Voices - "Bee Thousand" (1994).
By the guest’s request, I cross-checked the number of reviews on AllMusic Guide with the number on rateyourmusic.com . Impressively, the rankings were exactly the same in terms of comparing the number of user rankings for each album. Furthermore, the most-ranked album for each artist (which is usually the one chosen for the Obscurity Quiz) was also the same as on AMG. Let’s hear it for intercoder reliability or at least internet statistics generally! Woo consensuses!
On Discogs, it’s much more labor-intensive to find out which of a band’s albums has the most ratings. The albums in this quiz differed slightly there, with The Dandy Warhols more popular relative to GBV & The Everly Brothers more popular relative to The Apples in Stereo. I probably won’t do this much follow-up after every Obscurity Quiz going forward, however fascinating these subtle differences may be.
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Buy our album picks on Bandcamp, 3/4 on a “name your price” basis: https://capillaryaction.bandcamp.com/album/capsized & https://discorporate.bandcamp.com/album/squeeze-me-ahead-of-line
STRUCTURE: OG introduces CA & his history w/ them, attending & booking concerts, the awe of discovering something completely new, the importance of venue, stripping down the band on tour, DJ Poseur’s ignorance of Oberlin but mutual co-op Hobart worship, CA is recommended for whom? (0:00-13:20) Drummers w/ energy & turning on a dime, composition versus improvisation, any accessible entry points?, NO Mr. Bungle!, “Capsized” & “So Embarrassing”, associates of CA, OG’s concert bookings in the bygone days of Myspace, the early days of social media, one doesn’t get into music for the money, underground & “self-released” music (13:20-24:18) Being an amazing opening act w/ a famous tour versus headlining, collaboration & exposure, ratings & critical reviews, Pitchfork readers poll & Joe Tangari’s reviews of CA (24:18-30:20) individual songs on “Capsized”, the convergence of extreme complexity & unintentionally genius incompetence, a van accident, the Kevin Shea tributes, side projects & day jobs as the tragedy of the millennial generation’s musical luminaries, WI (30:20-39:48) CA’s elusive discography, documentation of OGs glory days w/ CA, the meaning of CA, RIYLs (39:48-45:35) ratings, metal adjacency & the need for experimentation (45:35-48:50) transition between album picks (48:50-56:33) no such thing as bad music? acquired tastes & the need for repeated listening to appreciate versus being a rock edgelord (compared to the more American practice of getting really into obscure forms of Christianity), are they done making music?, pushing the boundaries of rock in the 2020s, hooks, complexity, drumming (56:33-59:59) electronics sour the rock purists, vocal comparison, unusual song structures & unpredictability > soloing. “Squeeze Me Ahead of Line”, Discorporate & Tzadik Records, collaborators famous and obscure, plugging Bandcamp call to action (59:59-1:06:25) review on “All About Jazz” and elsewhere & when screaming vocals are appropriate, then individual songs on “a subtle album”, quasi-jazz comparisons, songs blending versus being individually distinguishable, music for driving, the explosion of subgenres, is it offensive or an easy/“soothing” listen? (1:06:25-1:14:37) How serious are their boastful self-descriptions on Bandcamp?, mystique, avant-garde, the slow return of live music post-Covid (1:14:37-1:17:17) ratings & comparison to their previous EP “Caudle Cameo” (1:17:17-end)
Capillary Action is RIYL: Mike Patton, FZ, The Season Standard, Basset Hounds, Jouska, Head of Femur, pele, The Book of Knots, Hi Red Center, Need New Body, Volcano!, Zs, Make a Rising, Many Arms & other raucously ambitious acts on Tzadik. I hear Elvis Costello in his voice; OG hears Sinatra (!) & says Mr. Pfeffer mentioned Archie Shepp as a big influence.
The Season Standard is RIYL: Mahogany Frog, Capillary Action, Phil Manzanera, Deerhoof ("Xylan" especially), T.J. Kirk, King Crimson
A great, insightful interview w/ Jonathan Pfeffer of CA in a source I’d never heard of (about the previous album, “So Embarrassing”: http://www.tokafi.com/15questions/interview-capillary-action/ .
“So Embarrassing” is NYP on Discorporate Records.
A cool rendition of “Sweepstakes” in an indoor overpass.
I would absolutely have loved to see a double bill of CA & Už Jsme Doma in Madison, mentioned by OG as his first meeting of the bandleader. Here’s the music video for “Mariana”. They should have an album pick on a future OoO episode.
OG also mentioned Charlie Looker , Psalm Zero, and Extra Life. Mike Watt as a collaborator & jamming partner also comes up.
Pitchfork’s reviewer does a good, thorough job with CA, comparing them both aptly and humorously to Need New Body. “Feeding Frenzy” is compared to the experimental yelling (& apparently storytelling) album by Liars, “They Were Wrong, So We Drowned.”
The performance that led me to Pele for a jazz connection is “The Mind of Minolta”.
A very positive, helpful review of “Squeeze Me Ahead of Line” in an unexpected source: https://www.allaboutjazz.com/squeeze-me-ahead-of-line-the-season-standard-unsung-records-review-by-john-kelman
OG connects them to Stick Men & obviously King Crimson.
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This is a new mini-feature we’re trying out for the first time, though it was intended to accompany the very first episode of OoO. The idea is to give a very personal review in conversation about a “best of” or “essential” albums list in a particular style for a list from a semi-authoritative source online.
We begin w/ this list of “Essential Power Pop Albums”: https://www.treblezine.com/10-essential-power-pop-albums/ (If you want to play along, don’t look at the list until after the episode.)
The list is discussed album-by-album, with each cohost giving his or her personal hot take and receiving a numerical score in relation to it. The scoring is rather complicated, but I hope it’ll eventually be second-nature and easy enough for listeners to tally their own scores. It also admittedly favors people w/ large collections of physical or digital media rather than those who just stream music (as it should, I say!)
SCORING FOR EACH ALBUM: Never heard of band & album (-5 pts); Heard of Band but not album (-4); Heard of both but not heard & don't own (0); Heard It (+2); Own It (+10); Own It But Haven't Heard It (+3); Used to Own (and Listened) But Don't Now (+5). Own a different/additional album by the same band +1 each. Saw live +2 each time, saw frontman live +1 each time. 10pt. bonus if you would have put an album on your own list in the category. 5pt. bonus if you're sure a band that is on the list would be on your list but a different album.
Obviously the goal is to have a positive rather than negative total score by the end, and there can be some competition between the cohosts to establish credibility or even expertise. Listeners are strongly encouraged to post their own scores in the comments, and congratulations are owed to anyone who can best the cohosts. You’ll just have to listen to know our scores (no spoilers in the description!) and whether we can keep our heads above water. I expect some negative scores in the future.
If you’ve read this far, we will say that OG approved of the list more strongly than DJ Poseur, finding 80% in the 20th century to be an unfair bias. A list of DJ Poseur’s favorite power pop albums would definitely have included Starlight Mints’ debut & a Self album (an actual list is probably not forthcoming, barring popular demand). Optimus Grimes’ score should get the 5pt. bonus for calling one entry “THE quintessential power pop band.” I failed to include it b/c this was the first time doing this mini-feature.
Welcome any feedback on whether this is more or less interesting to listen to than our usual mini-feature, The Obscurity Quiz, and if you know a good list (preferably of 10 albums) to use in a future edition.
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Purchase our album picks on Bandcamp https://pitchblackmanor.bandcamp.com/album/monster-classics & eMusic https://www.emusic.com/album/4953371/The-Spits/Scion-AV-Garage-Presents-The-Spits---Haunted-Fang-Castle
Structure: Introducing Loveheart & her experience raising a kid in the 21st century w/ music (0:00-8:55); Basic specs for “Monster Classics” & Loveheart introduces PBM & favoring bands w/ personal connections is considered (8:55-13:40) The dangers of musical nepotism, successful promotion of self-released music, after age 30 how loud is “too loud”?, genres, impressive production, other bands, vocals & lyrics, a passion for horror movies, horror soundtracks atmosphere vs. pop singles (13:40-28:49) Individual songs on “Monster Classics”, Loveheart’s personal music experiences, what songs we skip on an album, (28:49-39:08) RIYLs, closing tracks, the music videos, festive family time (39:08-45:45) Ratings & PBM’s discography (45:45-48:05) Transition between album picks w/ “holiday” music & the need for a 21st-century Halloween music canon, spooky architecture, Midwestern rock, a novelty band Vs. a novelty album (48:05-55:09) Basic specs for “Haunted Fang Castle” & the storytelling media of the 1980s to early 1990s before CDs & the internet, the advent of on-demand entertainment & youth’s veneration of physical media in a remote/digital environment, classroom tech, & circling back to “Haunted Fang Castle” (55:09-1:05:20) characters in the story, individual songs (1:05:20-1:12:15) The Spits in general & our shared John Waters thoughts, Loveheart’s evolving punk assessments, discography & RIYLs (1:12:15-1:19:11) ratings (1:19:11-end)
Pitch Black Manor is RIYL: Mike Patton, Rocky Horror Picture Show, White Zombie?, Voltaire, Bowie, Iggy Pop, Ministry, Devo, Voot Warnings, Goblin Cock, Marilyn Manson, My Life w/ the Thrill Kill Kult, Melancholic Bitch
The Spits are RIYL: The Ramones, The Kills, dirty/old-school garage & punk rock, catchy little ditties
“Monster Classics” album review https://regenmag.com/reviews/review-pitch-black-manor-monster-classics/
& a news release https://www.quadcities.com/articles/pitch-black-manor-returns-with-new-record-after-25-years/ PBM's many music videos set to classic horror films on their YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/PitchBlackManor
The producer, Erik Peabody, may be responsible for this very spooky channel, Chilling Tales for Dark Nights.
David Bowie narrates “Peter & the Wolf” https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLonWRv9u8k-p-hpprl3rr-PmDOhlAzm1a
The Spits have a YouTube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF6qXluX-R7QqxEPi0LvS4g , but most of their live concert footage is on other channels. John Waters gives The Spits live set a fine introduction here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3zw4b4yldg
Bands mentioned for playing in black, hooded robes include The Spits , Secret Chiefs 3, & Goblin Cock. Might there be more?
Loveheart mentions the vocals on “Blasphemy” as akin to Cradle of Filth. Furious George as a “goofy” punk rock band https://www.allmusic.com/artist/furious-george-mn0000801584 .
Once again, the vampire rock band comedy “Suck” (2009) is recommended: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323605/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_5
Three other fine, often very scary movies mentioned in the episode: Gods & Monsters , It Follows , & Green Room.
Loveheart mentions FZ’s “Baby Snakes”.
DJ Poseur's Halloween mixes: "Dark Chills" https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCBeakfAKFQbVbJzD-leE83ysJYCbmY_3 & "Halloween Hits" https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCBeakfAKFQavg1LNLkY_16focO89wXG9
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OoO welcomes new cohost Loveheart with a personalized Obscurity Quiz of exceptional taste ranging from the 1970s to 2010s. Our Halloween themed episode with two rock horror album picks by Pitch Black Manor & The Spits is coming soon.
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Purchase our album picks on Bandcamp: https://monkturner.bandcamp.com/album/god-complex
& https://lesliehall.bandcamp.com/
Structure: Robert introduces MT (0:53-8:38); Creative Commons & personal feedback on demos, “making-of” videos, collaboration(8:38-17:10); Concept albums of MT & compared to Holst’s “The Planets” (17:10-25:37) Stylistic variety on one album & individual songs on “God Complex” (25:37-42:22) gods & goddesses, genders of vocalists, looking for inspiration & songs “about characters” sung from their perspective concluding thoughts on the album, receptiveness to recommendations & RIYLs (42:22-49:27) Discography quantity & quality over 25+ albums & Robert’s favorite MT albums, Robert rates numerically in comparison to MT’s other albums (49:27-53:36) DJ Poseur is critical, Robert defends, & agreement to disagree (53:36-56:55) Transition between MT & LH, concept Vs. novelty Vs. comedy albums in general, “Name Your Price” Vs. free on Bandcamp, Bandcamp browsing strategies (56:55-1:05:01) LH’s viral popularity > MT’s obscurity but both are relatable, The physicality of pop music, the “outsider music” question (1:05:01-1:10:20) “Songs in the Key of Gold”, music videos, Robert compares to Weird Al, original Vs. remixes, rediscovering pop of the past, ironic Vs. unironic listening (1:10:20-1:20:54) “the look” of a pop star & giving the people what they want in performances (1:20:54-1:26:08) Individual songs after a little more on MT (1:26:08-1:30:36) body positivity, full album conclusions, RIYLs (1:30:36-1:36:13) Ratings for LH (1:36:13)
Monk Turner is RIYL: biographical rap battles of historical figures (ERB of History). Tree-planting streaming services like streambystream.com , plantatreemusic.com , Pitch Black Manor, Kids of Widney High, Neon & Nude, Disney showtunes
Leslie Hall is RIYL: Lady Gaga, Amy Winehouse, electronic pop & dance/house music, Felix Da Housecat (but she namedrops Britney & Beyonce), Kevin Blechdom, Chicks on Speed
https://nardwuar.com/nardwuar-vs-leslie-hall/ nardwuar interview with Leslie Hall. Leslie Hall’s highly assured body positivity has a thematic list on Ranker https://www.ranker.com/list/songs-about-being-fat/ranker-music But of course DJ Poseur prefers his much more obscure mix, leading w/ her absolutely one-of-a-kind, brilliant music video for “Tight Pants/Body Rolls” https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCBeakfAKFQapdqtvHBRDyZ9HQdx2IeFs
We mention in passing Little Big’s “Sex Machine” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VDzezv7atU & Larry Groce’s “Junk Food Junkie” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7oOhMlsfeQ Soundtrack to “Xanadu” https://www.allmusic.com/album/xanadu-original-motion-picture-soundtrack-mw0000313750 The aptly named Brave Combo https://www.allmusic.com/artist/brave-combo-mn0000933281 & the enduring appreciation of “Seven Ways” https://www.allmusic.com/album/seven-ways-mw0000601078
For those too young to get the reference, the question is posed whether LH’s album might serve the same purpose as Richard Simmons’ “Sweatin’ to the Oldies,” updated for the 21st century https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awsp0L4WLxU
Robert’s glowing review of “God Complex” http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/2016/03/monk-turners-god-complex-a-suburban-rock-opera-with-mythical-overtones-review/
is accompanied by extensive coverage of Monk Turner’s sizable body of work http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/2011/06/monk-turner-la-song-writer-and-concept-album-creator/ . His favorite album is “Love Story” https://monkturner.bandcamp.com/album/love-story . Podcast interview w/ MT https://archive.org/details/170723MusicManumitPodcast/170723-music-manumit-podcast.mp3 . Making-of videos about “God Complex” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJnmYWQerpc&list=PLz_TltsG83Liz6_pU2O7LsexPK2XCL-rr&index=1 . Robert also recommends Live performance of Monk Turner and his sometimes collaborator Alanna Lin singing a song from Emergency https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOCFAlbRBrQ Monk's on guitar.
(Alanna did not do any of the tracks in God Complex) Might he be MT’s biggest fan (on the internet at least)?
South Park’s take on conceptual Rob Schneider movies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9H9WPPDS8 The AV Club includes concept albums in its yearly feature on the “least essential” music, starting w/ the whole decade of the 90s (see around the middle of the article for the take-down of lame concept albums) https://www.avclub.com/least-essential-albums-of-the-90s-1798208448
Robert hears similarities between Leonard Cohen’s “Future” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VAxwimExn0 & MT’s Hades’ song. Rick & Morty S3E9 on “The Hunt” as a complement to Artemis’ song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y201T3OXZg . Some more “obscure gods” not featured are listed here: https://mythnerd.com/most-random-obscure-and-unknown-greek-gods-and-goddesses/
The “outsider” & production values questions (to be revisited in future episodes), posed by Kids of Widney High https://www.youtube.com/c/TheKidsofWidneyHighOfficialYouTubeChannel
DJ Poseur has an ongoing, similar beef w/ DJ Keep Roomie about how much to praise & how to appreciate the Young@Heart Chorus https://www.youtube.com/user/youngatheartchorus
Maybe we’ll hash out ironic listening, whether outsider originals or outsider covers of hits are “better” in a future scheduled digression.
DJ Poseur mentions a preference for Har Mar Superstar over both of this episode’s picks (for being very slightly more subtle & better produced/more listenable), though he’s too famous to be featured. He furthermore appreciates the non-ironic indie sound of Sean Na Na, but these two music videos are, in his humble opinion, a perfect combination of the sex appeal & fantasy pop stardom this episode’s picks aspire to: “Prisoner” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgHEeYIV62w & “DUI” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSMCNLpgZ5o
DJ Poseur is a snobbidy snob snob.
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Robert Nagle (idiotprogrammer) is a contestant for a third time in a quick conversation about some seminal concept albums from the 60s & the first decade of the 21st century.
We fixate a bit on The Beatles, leading DJ Poseur to bring up the “Almost Beatles” record art at the Archive of Contemporary Music https://arcmusic.org/galleries/almost-beatles/
Preview of Peter Jackson's "Get Back" https://youtu.be/UocEGvQ10OE?t=84
Consider this a preview of topics to be considered in the upcoming episode on Monk Turner & Leslie Hall.
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This episode features two “unpopular pop” albums. One from a group who apparently survive on viral word of mouth in Eastern Europe, and the 2nd a 2019 album translated as “The Plague” that in a just world would have spread more than Covid-19 or at least should be one of those globally prescient coincidences for future music historians to unearth someday.
Purchase our album picks on Bandcamp https://mireiavilar.bandcamp.com/
or eMusic https://www.emusic.com/album/150248559/ONUKA/MOZAKA
https://www.emusic.com/album/201770325/Mireia-Vilar/La-Plaga
Official sites: http://www.onuka.ua/en/
http://www.mireiavilar.com/music/
YouTube channels (please use them only for the music videos and buy the albums): https://www.youtube.com/user/onukaofficial https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdLwWPkbw7jpwwGPNMvkGgw
Structure: Basic specs for “Mozäika” & Robert explains Eurovision (up to 9:08) Live and studio versions, Onuka’s views on Russia as a Ukrainian, the insular American pop music market & its imperviousness to Eurovision, contrast w/ U.S. music/singing pageantry, Robert on the “love fest” of Eurovision (9:08-15:50) Is competition good for music? Does it make the music better or just more conformative? Robert on pop voices and yet more Eurovision details, “winning” versus “losing” the contests, telegenic appearances, must a pop diva be able to belt out and hold a single note? (15:50-24:20) The joys of liner notes & other merits of “Mozaïka”, variety and popularity of the album (24:20-27:28) Onuka’s “Strum” music video & a detailed description of a very short song/interlude via Chernobyl architecture, pop music & militarism, “Golos” & “Guns Don’t Shoot”, human sincerity with electronics, Ukraine’s geopolitics (27:28-34:08) Robert praises individual songs & gives RIYLs (34:08-38:56) Reviews on eMusic, DJ Poseur’s album summary, Onuka’s music videos, lack of professional reviews, comparison to the self-entitled album (38:56-43:31) Ratings (43:31-45:48) Transition between album picks, YouTube views disparity, Synth/dream/space pop?, (45:48-49:30) Pop music, popular music, chart music, yacht rock, production convergence & conformity, nostalgia for certain time periods (49:30-56:01) Robert starts to opine on MV & gets steered back to obscure, “unpopular pop” & regional versus global popularity & whether there’s a single global (Western) style of pop music today. How globally popular must a song be to pierce the USA? Other media introduce new music and popularize it. Being a fan w/out hope of seeing someone perform. Foreign languages, time versus place influences in pop styles. (56:01-1:05:44) Mireia Vilar’s “La Plaga” & very literary lyrics in “Estado de Flow” & other lyrical interpretations of individual songs on the album (1:05:44-1:11:56) Robert’s favorite song of the year & his RIYLS for MV. Lyrical poetry listening versus general pop listening. One person can make a difference w/ a review if no one else has? Music videos and performance videos, simplicity of composition. Demographics & music markets. (1:11:56-1:21:10) Other songs on the album. MV’s evolution from previous album and her future, would this work w/ a live audience? (1:21:11-1:26:33) RIYLs, mostly other obscure artists for fans of MV (1:26:33-1:27:52) Ratings (1:27:52)
Onuka is RIYL… Shuma, Bjork, Boomclap Bachelors, Jorane, La Roux, Линда (Linda from Kazakhstan)
Mireia Vilar is RIYL… SingerSen, Orbital, Goldfrapp, Beach House, other Spanish synth-pop?, Mow, Jeanette, Suzanne Vega, Enya
The RIYL Spanish band Mow is impossible to find w/out more of a lead, so try their music video for “Grasiah” here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92YtTynOyAM
Onuka interview 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsrjjQmC364
George Gittoes’ “Soundtrack to War” https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0470161/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0
MV has a special treat for psychologists… Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience (Harper Perennial Modern Classics) by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
Robert thinks Onuka sounds like Linda, Kazakh pop star from the 1990s
https://www.bitlanders.com/blogs/mystical-trip-hop-from-russia-linda-russian-singer/60867
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_(singer), as well as Shuma, the Belarussian band https://youtu.be/K7VBU1TZwCo
Skryabin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skryabin_(band) 1997 album https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idGFNH0T6OA , Lyube https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyube https://www.emusic.com/album/123498320 ,
and MV sounds like Jeanette https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAe0gyrDSyg
Laibach’s “Volk” album of national anthems https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kxo4FIzLWoQPV-V-gUEycoRKKpWUWVI9E
Eurovision: Eurovision likes to laugh at itself, so they made this great music video to explain Eurovision to newbies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6tgnx6jTQ&list=PLUczN3tkUHz7fi-jV2ab0oA8mQQXmqWUk&index=2 (the people who participate in the performance are all previous winners -- including the MC's!)
epic sax guy from Eurovision
https://youtu.be/pHXDMe6QV-U Moldava scored next to last place, and then 5 years later they made a meme out of him and literally epic sax guy was the most anticipated act in 2019!
Eurovision vigorously geo-blocks youtube content from USA.
idiotprogrammer’s blog: http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/
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As a preview for Idiotprogrammer's 2nd episode of OoO on "unpopular pop music," we take a brief look at some of Europe's most popular female vocalists since the 1980s. We have differing views on which we'd actually choose to listen to today and whether we'd prefer any of them over our episode's album picks, neither of which is listed in All Music Guide, as ever the measurement standard for the quiz.
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Purchase album picks on Bandcamp: https://thefaint.bandcamp.com/album/danse-macabre-deluxe-edition-remastered
https://nurses.bandcamp.com/album/dracula
Nurses’ 2017 follow-up is on Bandcamp on a “name your price” basis and should be owned by everyone w/ the faintest interest in experimental, electronic pop music or edgy music in general: https://nurses.bandcamp.com/album/naughtland . The music video for the “single” from the album, “Fortress”, is excellent, involving a Portland queer art collective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq2zcdjA7Ps
Structure: Ced’s thoughts on “Danse Macabre” (up to 2:36); Songs versus albums, owning versus streaming (2:36-4:10); Ced’s consideration of song themes & genre on “Danse Macabre” and an explanation of the appeal of the controversial “Agenda Suicide” & his legal background/rejection of capitalism (4:10-8:37); Does dance music age well? Ced’s nostalgia & general taste in music (8:37-10:30); The possibility of dying before 40 & how “successful” are The Faint as a band? Oberlin memories & Beach House connection. Ced the indie rock partisan was there before the bands hit the big time. Recommending music to friends & loved ones. Selling out as a hipster concern (10:30-19:14). Black and dark but not goth. Electronic dance punk as a style of music w/ consideration of imitators & “derivative” sounds. Cel’s current musical interests & uses for music, his appreciation of Spotify, and his intensity. (19:14-24:40) Side projects of The Faint & Wolf Parade, thoughts on the discography (or at least other favorite songs). Leaving it to Spotify & what makes a good or bad song, thoughts on very popular music. Artist compensation on streaming services (24:40-33:50). The deluxe version’s additional tracks. Spotify playlists as an existential threat to the album. Relative concerns of artist compensation versus existential threats to humanity, democracy, etc. (33:51-37:35). RIYL The Faint (37:35-40:56). Ratings for “Danse Macabre” (40:56-41:42). Transition between album picks & Cel’s initial thoughts on “Dracula” (41:42-45:02). The importance of a good live show and whether we’d ever go to a concert “blind” today (45:02-48:04). Basic specs for “Dracula” & hypotheses for the ongoing obscurity of Nurses. Music Ced doesn’t like and reasons to remember names of musicians/bands (48:04-52:53). “Best-of” lists on Pitchfork & elsewhere, favorites from the 2010s (52:53-58:45). Ced is a fan of Dracula. Reviews of the album. DJ Poseur heaps praise on “Dracula”, albums where songs connect to each other (1:03 ish). Nurses discography, Spotify’s algorithm & the lure of the obscure for DJ Poseur, putting the kibosh on Kanye conversation. RIYLs (1:04:01-1:09:05). Ratings for “Dracula” (1:09:05 to end).
RIYL The Faint - Supersystem, Mobius Band, The Fever, The Faux, Out Hud/!!!, The Rapture, The Show Is the Rainbow (also NE)
1.3-hr. mix of 20 songs for fans of The Faint: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCBeakfAKFQa3K0yjwO9ZlvZgxSgLsjW5
Nurses is RIYL - We Ragazzi; Dios (Malos); Shimmering Stars; Animal Collective; Fredrik
I mention that “Dracula” is #2 on my list of favorite albums of the 2010s, in full here: http://www.omnifoo.info/pages/Favorite%20Superlatives.html#2010s
The vampire rock band movie from Canada (starring Alice Cooper, Iggy Pop, and many more) “Suck” https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323605/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_5
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First-time guest host shares his concert memories, thoughts on fame versus obscurity, with reverences to seminal acts like The Fall, The Smiths, and Neutral Milk Hotel. Our episode on The Faint's "Danse Macabre" & Nurses "Dracula" will follow soon.
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Purchase our album picks on Bandcamp https://manybirthdays.bandcamp.com/album/black-mountain-blue-sea https://13yearcicadas.bandcamp.com/
or eMusic https://www.emusic.com/artist/rs_3624495/13-Year-Cicada
Structure: The first album pick is an EP and the second is more of a comparison of two albums. (1:10) Robert’s discovery of & history appreciating Many Birthdays & IUMA music hosting site (5:20) turning Japanese and then less so over their discography (12:24) RIYLs (w/ whom would we “lump” MB?) (17:20) “Black Mountain Blue Sea” EP thoughts (20:42) Robert’s thoughts on Austin, TX (23:40) alternative explanations for MB’s obscurity: the importance of record label support & full albums (30:35) MB’s many genres and individual songs from the EP, comparisons to Mitchell Froom (35:37) MB’s music videos in comparison to 13 Year Cicada (41:20) Album ratings for “Black Mountain Blue Sea” & Robert’s thoughts on music reviews and “interesting failures” (48:38) transitioning to 13 Year Cicada with similarities between the groups (50:50) 13 Year Cicada’s “00YES” introduction & Robert’s introduction of the band (53:17) RIYLs & reaching for similar sounds to 13 Year Cicada, Robert compares to previous album “Totem Tongue” (57:05) Critics didn’t get the album, “Ride” compared to The Shaggs, other individual tracks from “00YES” (1:01:26) Who is the audience for this audience? Lyrics to “Squirrel”, video for the new track “What Will You Be Wearing?”, thoughts on individual songs with that song as a bridge between the quiet and loud of their two albums. (1:11:06) Why DJ Poseur prefers “Totem Tongue” & Robert’s preference for “00YES” friendly disagreement, their other music videos (1:13:52) Rating the two albums by 13 Year Cicada
Many Birthdays RIYL: The Kills, Asobi Seksu, Deerhoof, Trans Am, Sonic Youth, Parts & Labor, IQU, the soundtrack to "Zombies Ate My Neighbors" for SNES, Love Psychedelico, Takako Minekawa & J-Rock generally
13 Year Cicada RIYL: Pharmakon, Shilpa Ray, The Low Budgets, experimental punk w/ fem. vocals, Animal Collective
My favorite MB music video (for “Days Like Turtles”): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGxrhFljxF0 and one I call lo-fi Cyriak, “Minnawa”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xlt5CEZ9J8
A great, new music video for 13 Year Cicada’s “What Will You Be Wearing”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HCuzpYB7-E
Media on MB: https://www.sonicbids.com/band/manybirthdays/ ; https://www.facebook.com/manybirthdays
Media reviews of “00Yes”: Fuze Magazine (Germany) https://www.ox-fanzine.de/review/13-year-cicada-00yes-117164 ; https://www.ox-fanzine.de/review/13-year-cicada-00yes-117164
Other media we mention: IUMA
https://archive.org/details/iuma-archive
http://www.theoctopusproject.com/
Mitchell Froom -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Froom
Gram Rabbit https://gramrabbit.bandcamp.com/ (ok, maybe this connection is tenuous is best, but Gram Rabbit straddles country and electronica and occasionally punk, such as in this album)
https://gramrabbit.bandcamp.com/album/music-to-start-a-cult-to
Takako Minekawa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takako_Minekawa
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The first three albums are ones that idiotprogrammer mentioned among his all time favorites, and the latter three are DJ Poseur's favorites from that year. Just imagine that we have the rights to play the hit by Smashing Pumpkins to open and close this obscurity quiz. A new episode with this guest is coming soon!
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As OoO matures, it’s expected that DJ Poseur won’t know some guest hosts personally. After admiring Robert’s work for over a year, this is the first time DJ Poseur and idiotprogrammer met in real time. The guest shares his thoughts and experiences from a lifetime of going far above and beyond the average listener.
You can find idiotprogrammer’s music blog here: http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/category/music/musical-discoveries/
Other links to material covered in the interview…
the beloved 90-min. synthesizer soundscape: https://www.jamendo.com/album/6118/electrolongtempo
Steve Reich “It's Gonna rain” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vugqRAX7xQE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Gonna_Rain
His thoughts on “Sex on the Phone”: http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/2008/06/e-rotic-europop-mindless-sexy-and-embarrassing-and-very-fun/
& the song itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dizyctgh2fM & another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjhdxsV7Ng4
Chinese pop singer g.e.m.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWtbGkpdoP4
Music in “Ghost World”: https://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/36002/1/three-things-you-never-knew-about-ghost-world
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Purchase options: “Music for Mortals” http://www.stuartdavis.com/album/music-mortals “ibn El Leil” https://www.emusic.com/album/84891083/Mashrou-Leila/Ibn-El-Leil
Structure: Background on SD (up to 6:13); “Music for Mortals” album: songs in 3-4 tiers (6:13-16:00) Comparisons & RIYLs for SD and eclectic albums (16:00-25:36) The SD discography & ratings for “Music for Mortals” and whether to focus on one genre per album (25:36-30:31) Transition between picks (30:31-31:56) “Ibn El Leil” album, openness to the style, the band has faced adversity for its identity, political lyrics, their Tiny Desk concert, different versions and songs repeating appearances, Middle Eastern pop production strictures (31:56-41:23) Song highlights (41:23-47:53) ML discography and RIYLs from the Middle East and the West, Synth-pop examined (47:53-51:59) Ratings and possible appeal beyond a Middle East fanbase (51:59-end)
Hopeful news article on a previous album by SD: https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/2257208-cd-review-davis-set-become-breakthrough-artist-new-release
Pitchfork called this video for ML’s “Roman” one of the best of the 2010s, and it’s been viewed enough times to make the pick for OoO questionable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF__cpsDmZk
ML lyrics in translation: https://mashrouleilalyrics.wordpress.com/2015/12/12/the-truth-behind-ibn-el-leil-night-wine-and-gods/
ML banned from performing in Jordan: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2016/04/28/moderate-jordan-bans-lebanese-rock-group-for-music-that-contradicts-the-abrahamic-faiths/
Clearly showing religion is not my forte nor the focus of OoO, I misremembered this documentary as being about LGBTQ Muslims rather than Hasidic & Orthodox Jews…still relevant, I suppose, and it’s good to establish a negligent correction policy. Sorry to anyone who’s offended. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/trembling-before-gd
SD is RIYL: 90s rock, Talking Heads, Elvis Costello, RHCP, Adam Green
ML is RIYL: Depeche Mode, New Order, Pet Shop Boys
RIYL ML: A Hawk and a Hacksaw, Dissidenten, Ouzo Bazooka, Jerusalem in My Heart, Aufgang’s “Turbulences” album
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Stream our picks here (but do also buy them if you can afford it): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lYasLPwrQ7z0-pepR1n43ZT-Fdl3QSWnc
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nnSVNrj2W6uETwPJK8h-Fl8UzhC6_mUN4
Listen to songs by Hannah Backward: https://soundcloud.com/hannah-backward
This episode is the longest one yet, so no worries if you want to skip to parts that interest you.
Structure: Background, JC’s YouTube videos, Tiny Desk concerts (up to 8:30); Instrumental & vocal virtuosity and technical skill, guests in the studio, parental appreciation of JC (8:29-12:05); Popularity with musicians but not yet the general public, the relevance of Grammy Awards, can jazz musicians be superstars?, Hannah’s listening habits & favorites (12:05-17:20); Close listening as opposed to background music, situations when she listens to music or podcasts, complexity/quality/desire to listen to something, impressiveness versus what music she could have done herself (17:20-22:40); Music as “a coloring book” with rules and whether or not it’s art, which prominent artists “can’t sing”? (22:40-30:55); A tasty dish according to J.Gold is likelier w/ a smaller number of ingredients? Not so for music? (30:55-33:00); the album “Djesse Vol.2” and shifting preferences in its songs, African cultural appropriation, Gospel & Kanye (33:00-38:06); Is JC “obscure enough” for OoO? (38:06-39:10); “Here Comes the Sun” & cover songs generally, can a young person cover standards and classics with gravitas and sufficient emotion? An instrument versus a voice conveying emotions with words, vocal affectation and experimentation, subtle variations in harmony (39:10-49:26); More music education in public schools to understand JC’s music? Musical talent versus academic study. Musicals and being outed as a non-fan of Randy Rainbow (49:26-56:58); The album as a whole, Hannah cares not for genre or DJ Poseur’s activism, vocal loops by JC and Sparks, workout music & repetition (56:58-1:03:19); Do we like music music that we want to make ourselves? More “amp you up” workout music, Hannah rejects more categories and dichotomies but is an album listener, what do we skip and why? (1:03:19-1:07:18); R&B on the radio & DJ Poseur’s Beijing roommate revenge for Mariah Carey, R&B and JC’s commercial success, videos of the musicians playing the song, JC’s discography (1:07:18-1:14:22); Hannah’s rating system will not be forthcoming (1:14:22-1:18:17); Could DJ Poseur like an album by an artist he doesn’t like? His rating of “Djesse Vol.2” in a roundabout way through middle school music class (1:18:17-1:24:05); Transition between picks, skinny dark-haired white dudes who sing a lot, Hyperpotamus covering The Beatles and other familiar pop songs versus JC’s ways, cringeworthy comparisons of awe and musical skillz (1:24:05-1:35:30); pop music versus opera in vocal virtuosity, obscure/hidden talents versus being “world best” at something everyone (thinks they) can do, how to go viral with a music video or not (1:35:30-1:41:57); Specs for “Delta” and general thoughts on a cappella’s fit with “pop” or “experimental” music (1:41:57-1:46:14); “Delta” versus “Largo Bailón” and “taking drums literally” , novelty albums and formulaic songwriting, unexpected bassline placement, love-themed lyrics, a cappella & psychic powers (1:46:14-1:55:15); Noisier elements and when do his loops come together and sound like a song?, RIYLS with vocal loops or pedal board composition (1:55:15-1:59:14); Attempts at rating and comparison between album picks, revisiting whether the possibility of one being able to make a particular kind of music oneself as a musician influences liking it, Hannah’s a cappella history and ambition (1:59:14-2:02:56); DJ Poseur’s rating of “Delta”, what’s annoying enough to turn off or skip? For Hannah, it’s autotune. (2:02:56 to end)
Disclaimer article for JC being too popular/well known for OoO: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/nov/28/jacob-collier-grammy-nomination-best-album
JC’s cover of “Here Comes the Sun”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXf1nUVdVuM
Hyperpotamus’ cover of “Strawberry Fields Forever”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zr9syen5Lw
Hyperpotamus’ most-viewed music video (91k views, not 40k as DJ Poseur misspeaks) “In the Time”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK_bkWreCdo
RIYL for JC: Nickel Creek, old musicals (for Djesse v.2) more generally...Stevie Wonder, Jamiroquai, funky/soulful 1970s jazz/R&B, The Manhattan Transfer, PM Dawn, Sonik Boom of Love
RIYL Hyperpotamus: A Cappella music, Emily Wells, Pentatonix, Chanticlear, Rag Fair, Björk's "Medúlla"
For reference, DJ Poseur gets the scale wrong when comparing the number of views for YouTube videos. As of late Feb. 2021, “Gangnam Style” and “Baby Shark” are in the billions, not hundreds of millions like Pentatonix. Jacob Collier’s “Djesse Vol. 2” has about 25 thousand views. Hyperpotamus’ “Delta” album has a little over a dozen views.
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Welcome a new cohost, HannahBackward, to give her thoughts on AMG, a cappella music, and whether megasites like Amazon and YouTube are too evil for OoO. An addendum cross-references AMG user ratings with YouTube views for extra empirical excitement!
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Buy our album picks here: https://gabbysworld.bandcamp.com/album/o-k
https://sharkstears.bandcamp.com/album/experience-of-the-charm
https://www.emusic.com/album/209403644/-/-
GW RIYL: Epoch Collective (Bellows, Florist, etc.), Frankie Cosmos, Mitski, Beach Bunny, Mus, K Records
ST RIYL: Slowdive, 4AD Label, Projekt Label, Beach House?, Lush
Structure: Where DJs Keep Roomie & Karev heard of Gabby’s World/Eskimeaux (up to 3:50); review of “OK” (3:50-14:45); Gabby’s voice (14:45-17ish); Her future & discography & possibly offensive language on “Year of the Rabbit” (17ish-20:59); the hipster elephant in the room & the collaborative spirit, friendship, name changes (20:59-26ish); Will DJ Karev be a solo artist or form a band? (26:15-28); An explicit hipster accusation on cassettes https://varioussmallflames.co.uk/2015/06/15/eskimeaux-o-k/. (28ish-35:09) & the quantitative social science methodology of measuring “how hipster” any particular artist/band is https://news.avclub.com/here-are-the-mathematically-determined-most-hipster-b-1798266690?utm_campaign ; Ratings for “OK” (35:09-36:45); Transitional plug for buying our picks on Bandcamp & eMusic cheaply (36:45-37:20); Female-fronted and all-girl bands, DJ Karev’s preferences for all but solo male artists (37:20-43:00); Films of Lukas Moodysson w/ young female protagonists, especially “We Are the Best!” (43:00-45:28); Review of “Experience the Charm” (45:28-49:27); Shoegaze Vs. Dream Pop (49:27-52ish); Live versus studio work, lyrics in a foreign language, & heavy rotation (52ish-53); More on dream pop & synth-pop of greater distinction, the 80s, extreme obscurity (53-56:27); Choosing tracks to highlight (or play on college radio) on an album that blends together, no handicaps or “grading on a curve” (56:27-1:00:30); Beach House’s dream pop superiority according to DJs Karev & Keep Roomie and Trans Am as a more synthetic voice (1:00:30-1:04:40); Ratings of “Experience the Charm” (1:04:40-1:06:40); What does it mean to rate something a 5 or below? Is anything above a 5 (or 3/5) positive?
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