Afleveringen
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Was India once an affluent empire, later impoverished by British colonisation? Or was India never rich to begin with?
More generally, what does historical data on wages and other economic indicators tell us about the broader story of the making of the modern world â a world with great affluence, but where much of the riches are still concentrated in the Western world.
For over 20 years now, Stephen Broadberry and Bishnupriya Gupta have worked to measure the evolution of global living standards from the medieval period onwards.
In this episode, they begin by discussing a comparison between the historical economies of India and Britain. We then continue to a broader story of the living standards of the pre-industrial world. We also discuss different theories of the âGreat Divergenceâ between the West and the rest of the world. We finish by turning our attention to the future, asking if the 21st century will be remembered as the Asian century.
This episode concludes the five-part series on the making of the modern world, produced by CAGE Research Centre and On Humans.
LINKS AND REFERENCES
Do you prefer reading to listening? You can findâ a summarised essay â of this conversation, with a bibliography, at our series page: â https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/â
NAMES MENTIONED
Kenneth Pomeranz | Angus Maddison | Daron Acemoglu | James Robinson | Nico VoigtlÀnder | Hans-Joachim Voth | Debin Ma | Robert Allen | Joel Mokyr
KEYWORDS
Economics | History | Global Economic History | Industrial Revolution | Indian history | Imperial history | East India Company | Emperor Akbar | Colonisation | Historical GDP estimates | Historical living standard estimates | Wage history | History of labour | Social history | Comparative development | State capacity | Malthusian trap | History of Technology
INFO
Guests: Bishnupriya Gupta (University of Warwick) and Stephen Broadberry (University of Oxford) â
Host: Ilari MĂ€kelĂ€ (â On Humansâ )
Contact: â [email protected]
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The tech gap between China and the West is closing fast. But why did the land that invented paper and gunpowder ever fall behind?
Debin Ma is the worldâs leading economic historian of East Asia. In this fourth episode of our Great Divergence series, he approaches the making of the modern world from an eastern perspective. We discuss why China fell behind, why Japan modernised early, and why East Asia has experienced so many economic miracles. We also discuss Chinaâs recent transformation â a transformation that Ma has witnessed firsthand.
LINKS AND REFERENCES
Do you prefer reading to listening? You can findâ a summarised essay â of this conversation, with a bibliography, at our series page: â https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/â
GREAT DIVERGENCE: THE MAKING OF THE MODERN WORLD
This episode is part of a series produced by Warwick Universityâs â CAGE Research Centreâ in collaboration with â On Humans, searching for explanations to why Western Europe and North America emerged as the most affluent and technologically advanced regions of the modern world. Guided by six expert guests, including a winner of the 2025 Nobel Prize in economics, we approach this topic with balance and breadth, exploring everything from colonialism and fossil fuels to science and technology.
1 | Why the West? Colonies, fossil fuels, and lessons from China (Kenneth Pomeranz)
2 | Why did so many inventions come from Europe? (with Joel Mokyr)
3 | Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in Britain? (Robert Allen)
4 | A view from the East: China, Japan, and the other paths to prosperity (Debin Ma)
5 | The big picture: Measuring the origins of the modern world (Bishnupriya Gupta and Stephen Broadberry)
NAMES MENTIONED
Joseph Needham | Kenneth Pomeranz | Joel Mokyr | Robert Allen | Francis Fukuyama | Jared Rubin | Yin Weiwen | Kaiser Kuo | Deng Xiaoping | Yasheng Huang
KEYWORDS
Economics | History | Global Economic History | Industrial Revolution | Chinese history | Japanese history | Developmental Economics | Needham Puzzle | Needham Question | Qianlong Emperor | Macartney embassy | Meiji Japan | Iwakura mission | Age heaping | Comparative development | State capacity | Modern fiscal state | History of taxation | Industrial Policy | History of Technology | Human capital
INFO
Guest: Debin Ma (Fudan University and All Souls College, University of Oxford) â â â
Host: Ilari MĂ€kelĂ€ (â â â On Humans Podcastâ â â )
Contact: â â â [email protected]â
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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Why was industrial modernity born in Europe and not, say, China? This is one of the most consequential questions about the origins of the modern world. Yet asking âwhy Europeâ can mislead. The Industrial Revolution was not a European event. It was a British event. So why was the steam engine invented in Britain, and not France or Italy?
Oxford professor Robert Allen has worked for decades trying to understand this question.
Allen believes that to understand the path to modernity, we must forget grand generalisations about the West. Instead, he asks us to zoom in on two very specific dynamics that shaped the British economy in the 1700s: cheap fuel and expensive workers. Together, they jolted Britain into a path where ever more work was streamlined with the help of machines and fossil fuels â a path that we are still walking on, with AI and robotics simply the latest sightings on this long march of modernity.
In this episode, we discuss the surprising revelations that led Allen to his theory. We discuss the reasons that British wages were high, and we discuss recent scholarship suggesting that this wasnât the caseâor at least, was not the cause for the Industrial Revolution. We also discuss the more humane side of wages, tracing the history of worker wellbeing from the Black Death to today.
As always in this series, we finish with our guestsâ reflections on the future.
LINKS AND REFERENCES
Do you prefer reading to listening? You can findâ a summarised essay â of this conversation, with a bibliography, at our series page: â https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/â
GREAT DIVERGENCE: THE MAKING OF THE MODERN WORLD
This episode is part of a series produced by Warwick Universityâsâ â â CAGE Research Centreâ â â in collaboration withâ â â On Humansâ â , searching for explanations to why Western Europe and North America emerged as the most affluent and technologically advanced regions of the modern world. Guided by six expert guests, including a winner of the 2025 Nobel Prize in economics, we approach this topic with balance and breadth, exploring everything from colonialism and fossil fuels to science and technology.
1 | Why the West? Colonies, fossil fuels, and lessons from China (Kenneth Pomeranz)
2 | Why did so many inventions come from Europe? (with Joel Mokyr)
3 | Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in Britain? (Robert Allen)
4 | A view from the East: China, Japan, and the other paths to prosperity (Debin Ma)
5 | The big picture: Measuring the origins of the modern world (Bishnupriya Gupta and Stephen Broadberry)
NAMES MENTIONED
James E. Thorold Rogers | Kenneth Pomeranz | Joel Mokyr | Jane Humphries | Daniel Defoe | Bradford J. (Brad) DeLong | Branko Milanovic | Daron Acemoglu | Oded Galor
KEYWORDS
Economics | History | Global Economic History | Industrial Revolution | Age of Inventions | Steam engine| European Miracle | British Industrial Revolution in Global Perspective | Wage history | History of labour | Social history | Comparative development | Meiji Japan | Spinning Jenny | Industrial Policy | History of Technology | History of Inventions
EPISODE INFO
Guest: Robert C. Allen (Nuffield College, University of Oxford and NYU Abu Dhabi) â â â â â
Host: Ilari MĂ€kelĂ€ (â â â On Humansâ â â )
Contact: â [email protected]
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Several inventions mark the progress towards modernity - the Gutenberg printing press, the Galileo telescope, the Watt steam engine. But why was Europe the birthplace of so many of these?
Joel Mokyr, winner of the 2025 Nobel Prize in economics, thinks the cause was culture. For decades, he has asked economists to take intellectual history more seriously. Economies are shaped by new inventions, Mokyr argues, and inventions can only be understood when we understand the culture that gives rise to them.
But how much did Europe's culture shape its economy? And how to square early modern Europe's progressive culture with its colonial legacy? Mokyr answers these and other questions in this episode, finishing with his reflections on the future of technological progress.
LINKS AND REFERENCES
Do you prefer reading to listening? You can find a summarised essay of this conversation, with a bibliography, at our series page: https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/
GREAT DIVERGENCE: THE MAKING OF THE MODERN WORLD
This episode is part of a series produced by Warwick Universityâsâ â â CAGE Research Centreâ â â in collaboration withâ â â On Humansâ â , searching for explanations to why Western Europe and North America emerged as the most affluent and technologically advanced regions of the modern world. Guided by six expert guests, including a winner of the 2025 Nobel Prize in economics, we approach this topic with balance and breadth, exploring everything from colonialism and fossil fuels to science and technology.
1 | Why the West? Colonies, fossil fuels, and lessons from China (Kenneth Pomeranz)
2 | Why did so many inventions come from Europe? (with Joel Mokyr)
3 | Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in Britain? (Robert Allen)
4 | A view from the East: China, Japan, and the other paths to prosperity (Debin Ma)
5 | The big picture: Measuring the origins of the modern world (Bishnupriya Gupta and Stephen Broadberry)
NAMES MENTIONED
Joel Mokyr | Robert Lucas | David Hume | Isaac Newton | Antoine Lavoisier | Joseph Black | James Watt | John Robison | Josiah Wedgwood | Sadi Carnot | Margaret Jacob | Evangelista Torricelli | Galileo Galilei | Blaise Pascal | Otto von Guericke | Aristotle | Denis Diderot | William Harvey | Song Yingxing | Marco Polo | Zheng He | Louis XIV | Avner Greif | Guido Tabellini | Kenneth Pomeranz | Adam Smith | Anne-Robert-Jacques Turgot | Montesquieu | Voltaire | Confucius | al-Ghazali | Ptolemy | Euclid | David Ricardo | Karl Marx | Hippocrates | Galen | Xi Jinping | Joseph Needham | Nigel Farage | Joseph Stalin | Trofim Lysenko | Robert Allen
KEYWORDS
Economics | History | Global Economic History | Intellectual History | Age of Inventions | Rise of the West | European Miracle | Enlightened Economy | Culture of Growth | Gift of Athena | Industrial Revolution | History of technology | History of inventions
INFO
Guest: Joel Mokyr (â â â â Northwestern University)â â â â
Host: Ilari MĂ€kelĂ€ (â â â â On Humansâ â â â )
Contact: â â â â [email protected]â â â â
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Why did Western Europe become the richest region of the early modern world? Was the rise of the West powered by colonization, inventions, or something else entirely? And what happened to the medieval might of China and India?
The term âgreat divergenceâ is increasingly used by historians who are bold enough to study this immense question, but who want to do it carefully, without falling into traditional East-West clichĂ©s.
This episode marks the beginning of a five-episode series exploring the state of this research, produced by the University of Warwickâs CAGE Research Centre in collaboration with the On Humans Podcast.
In this opening episode, we meet Kenneth Pomeranz, the historian of China who coined the term "great divergence" in a field-defining book of the same name. We begin by discussing Pomeranzâs groundbreaking approach and the surprising answers that he arrived at. In the second half of the episode, we zoom out and place the rise of the West into the broader story about the history of humanity â a story Pomeranz divides into four parts, with the fifth one beginning right now.
LINKS AND REFERENCES
Do you prefer reading to listening? You can find summary essays, bibliographies, and much more at our series page: â https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/research/centres/cage/news/podcasts/â
This episode is part of a series produced by Warwick Universityâsâ â â â â CAGE Research Centreâ â â â â in collaboration withâ â â â â On Humansâ â â â , searching for explanations to why Western Europe and North America emerged as the most affluent and technologically advanced regions of the modern world. Guided by six expert guests, including a winner of the 2025 Nobel Prize in economics, we approach this topic with balance and breadth, exploring everything from colonialism and fossil fuels to science and technology.
1 | Why the West? Colonies, fossil fuels, and lessons from China (Kenneth Pomeranz)
2 | Why did so many inventions come from Europe? (with Joel Mokyr)
3 | Why did the Industrial Revolution happen in Britain? (Robert Allen)
4 | A view from the East: China, Japan, and the other paths to prosperity (Debin Ma)
5 | The big picture: Measuring the origins of the modern world (Bishnupriya Gupta and Stephen Broadberry)
NAMES MENTIONED
Joel Mokyr | Brad DeLong | Arthur Wigley | Jan De Vries | Robert Allen | Simon Schama | Isaac Newton | Vasco da Gama | Jonathan Spence| Anthony Wrigley | Thomas Malthus | Nate Hagens | Charles Lockyer | Marshall Hodgson | Aristotle | Plato | Jared Diamond | Adam Smith |
KEYWORDS
Economics | History | Global Economic History | Malthusian Economics | Fossil Fuel Economics | Economics of Colonialism | Rise of the West | European Miracle | California School of Economics | Atlantic Trade | Industrial Revolution | Second Industrial Revolution | Historic living standards
INFO
Guest: Kenneth Pomeranz (â University of Chicagoâ )
Host: Ilari MĂ€kelĂ€ (â On Humans Podcastâ )
Contact: â [email protected]
