Afleveringen
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In this episode of Chance Conversations, Conor and I interview Robert Bateman, a renowned expert in data protection and privacy law. Robert shares his journey from self-professed âlazy manâ into data protection powerhouse, after he became unexpectedly obsessed with data protection in 2017.
Robert is the owner of KnowData Ltd, based in Brighton, England, where he provides consultancy, training, writing, and events related to data protection, privacy, and AI regulation. He also works as a data protection consultant for a number of firms, and as a trainer for Act Now Training. He also writes and hosts the bi-weekly Privado Privacy Corner, where he turns the crazy churn of privacy and data protection news into something manageable for all of us.
A Unique Approach to Training & Putting Privacy on the Map: When the topic of building a privacy culture came up as the first question, Robert immediately flipped it back on us, so if you havenât heard Conor or my takes on the subject, prepare yourselves.
But for Robert, the heart of effective data protection lies in making the process approachable and meaningful. His philosophy is can be boiled down into a few key points:
* be helpful & proactive
* be clear, and
* be approachableâcultivate a culture where data protection is second nature rather than a dictated chore.
Part of this mentality comes from Robert's deep commitment to empathy and logical consistency. Robert shared how his search for fairness and his focus on empathy have shaped him both professionally and personally. Itâs nice to see that while the world of data protection can sometimes feel a bit like a battleground, Robertâs emphasis on understanding and fairness reminds us that at the core of it, data protection is fundamentally about people and doing right by them.
Compliance Grievances: What would a Chance Conversations episode be without at least a little airing of grievances when it comes to privacy theatre. Iâll admit, this is a bit in the weeds and mostly EU-focused, but for some of you, I suspect there will be some nodding in empathy and acknowledgement of our shared pain.
Finding a Passion for Data Protection and Understanding What Drives Him: Robert's journey into data protection wasn't an entirely straightforward one (though he did do the oft-customary legal song-and-dance first).
Candidly, he admitted that he used to be âquite lazyâ, and that heâs the kind of person who is less driven towards a specific goal or goals (professional or otherwise), and is instead mostly carried along by what interests him. But after an illness, he did find his passion in data protection. Fortunately for us all, even after so many years, Robert seems pretty committed to making data protection, privacy, and AI understandable and clear. And notwithstanding his own opinion, I personally think Robert is one of the most hardworking folks I know, so I think he successfully dislodged his inner lazy.
For Robert, itâs about living in the moment, prioritizing the people he cares about and the life he wants to lead, rather than being consumed by lofty, long-term (and often unachievable) goals. This mindset not only keeps him present but also adaptable to the twists and turns life throws his way.
Inevitably, AI and The Fault in Our Laws: On industry Robert shared his thoughts about the current buzzword dominating our industry: AI. While many see AI as overhyped, Robert offered a nuanced view that it might actually be underappreciated by some in the data protection community. But he also shares the view that the state of expectations (including legal expectations) may have to change. We even get into what might happen if the law gets ahead of technology⊠oh my.
Still, the constant evolution and the legal intersections with AI make it an endlessly fascinating topic, one that Robert believes demands more thoughtful consideration as we hurtle toward a more automated future.
Timeline:
* 00:00 Welcome and Introduction
* 00:15 Meet Robert Bateman
* 01:45 Conversation Rules and Format
* 03:18 Industry Trends and Insights
* 03:33 Creating a Culture of Data Protection
* 13:22 Career Observations
* 19:54 Personal Questions
* 29:08 AI and Data Protection
* 36:19 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Stay tuned for the next episode of Chance Conversations, where we interview Gabriela Zanfir-Fortuna of the Future of Privacy Forum.
If you liked this episode, consider sharing it with a friend, leaving a comment, or subscribing to the podcast!
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In the latest episode of Chance Conversations, Conor and I dive into the intricate world of data privacy with Alexander Hanff, a towering figure (both figuratively, and literally) in privacy advocacy and an unwavering champion for data protection rights. With decades of experience shaping the laws and ethics surrounding privacy, Alex's insights are not just invaluableâthey're transformative.
Meet Alexander Hanff
We begin the episode by talking about Alex's remarkable journey. For those entrenched in the data protection sphere, Alex barely needs an introduction. His contributions span from the drafting of the GDPR to advising the EU Parliament, all underscored by a genuine passion for advancing fundamental rights. Through his consultancy, Hanff and Co., Alex has been a beacon for privacy advocacy worldwide for decades.
Embracing Change in Data Protection
One standout moment in our conversation emerged when Alex shared his views on fostering a culture of data protection within businesses. According to Alex, the crux lies in a willingness to changeâsomething that, despite its challenges, is pivotal. As he empathetically explained, many organizations are resistant not out of malevolence, but habit. Bringing change requires empathy and effective communication, an ethos Alex carries into his consulting and advisory roles.
The Human Touch vs. Technological Advances
In an era where technology dominates, Alex urges us all to strike a balance. While automation and technology can support privacy efforts, Alex warned against over-reliance on these tools at the risk of losing the critical human element. "Weâre talking about human rights," he asserts, emphasizing that technology, as sophisticated as it might be, can never fully grasp the nuances of human dignity and rights. Hereâs Alexâs take on privacy notices and how we might be doomed if AI start generating them:
Personal Insights and Industry Reflections
Turning the conversation personal, Alex shares his unwavering belief in learning from life's challenges. He posits that every experienceâevery hardshipâhas shaped him into the person he is today. This perspective really touched us, and highlighted the resilience and dedication that define his approach to data protection and privacy advocacy.
A particularly moving part of the episode was Alex's recollection of an encounter with a WWII veteran during a speech at the London School of Economicsâa poignant reminder of the human cost behind the rights many of us take for granted. This moment, among others, fueled Alex's commitment to preserving and advancing these hard-won rights.
Looking Ahead
As discussions about future technological impacts and privacy unfold, Alex remains a steadfast advocate for keeping privacy human-centric. His call to action is both a challenge and a reminder: to protect and prioritize human dignity in the face of ever-evolving technology.
We also reflected on the collegiality of privacy professionals â it was a bit of a love-fest at times.
Conor and I think youâll really enjoy listening â the episode was truly a masterclass in understanding not just the mechanisms of privacy and data protection, but the heart behind the movement. The conversation leaves listeners inspired, introspective, and eager for our next episode, which features Robert Bateman.
Stay connected with us on our LinkedIn page, where we continue to explore and discuss the dynamic world of data protection!
Timestamps:
* 00:00 Welcome and Introduction
* 01:50 Industry Trends and Insights
* 08:18 Career Observations
* 13:58 Personal Questions
* 18:41 Future of Technology in Privacy
* 23:49 The Role of Technology in Privacy
* 24:31 Challenges with Current LLMs
* 25:39 The Importance of Context in Privacy
* 29:14 The Future of AI in Privacy
* 30:26 Personal Reflections on Privacy Careers
* 33:22 The Impact of Personal Experiences
* 36:55 Final Thoughts and Reflections
* 42:36 Closing Remarks
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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Heads up: Conor had a reprieve and I ran this one solo. I had the pleasure of speaking with Liz Steininger, CEO of Least Authority â a privacy and security auditing firm based in Berlin, Germany. Least Authorityâs focus is primarily on Web3, and Iâve had the good fortune to work with Liz and her brilliant team.
We started out by diving deep into reflections and insights that only come from lived experience. Liz's thoughtful perspective provided a wealth of wisdom, offering up advice that is not only personal but universally resonant.
The Question That Opens Time: I started off by posing an introspective question: "If you could go back in time, what's one piece of advice that you would give a younger version of yourself?" Itâs the kind of question weâve all pondered at least once in our lives, and Lizâs response was both relatable and inspiring.
On Misplaced Energy: Liz didn't hesitate to reflect on her past. She shared that one of the most poignant pieces of advice sheâd offer her younger self revolves around the use of energy. Specifically, she would tell herself not to waste so much energy on certain people or situations.
Focusing on What Matters: Instead, she advised that while itâs easy to get caught up in the minutiae of daily life, to let certain situations drain our energy and consume our thoughts. Liz's advice serves as a potent reminder: life's challenges are often temporary, and holding on too tightly can prevent us from progressing toward better opportunities that lie ahead.
Remembering to direct energy toward things that truly matter is a lesson many of us could revisit, and Liz's candidness underscores just how transformative this shift in mindset can be.
A Guidepost for Life's Journey: While much of our talk revolved around time, energy and focus, and was indeed a bit of a therapy session, Lizâs reflections are not just words of wisdom but can be seen as a guidepost for all of us navigating lifeâs tumultuous journey.
She reminds us that while the challenges of the moment can seem overwhelming, tomorrow often brings new opportunities that are worth our attention and care.
Thank you, Liz, for sharing your insights and reminding us of the power of strategic self-focus.
Timeline:
* 00:00 Introduction and Welcoming Liz
* 03:02 Career Observations: Defining Success
* 08:21 Industry Trends: Learning from Failures
* 15:19 Personal Questions: Dream Destinations
* 21:59 Creating a Culture of Security and Privacy
* 25:57 Advice to Younger Self
* 29:48 Life Lessons and Guilty Pleasures
* 35:37 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
Stay tuned for the next episode, where we welcome Alexander Hanff to Chance Conversations and put him in the hot seat.
Thanks for listening â if you liked this episode, consider sharing it with others!
If you liked this, you might also like my blog, Privacat Insights
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In this episode of Chance Conversations, we welcome R. Jason Cronk, a principal privacy consultant at Enter Privacy Consulting Group. Jason shares insights from his diverse career and deep expertise in privacy engineering, privacy by design practices, and regulatory standards.
True Randomness & Philosophy: We start off with some unprompted philosophy about ⊠randomnessâ Jason shares his latest read Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will by Robert M. Sapolsky and explains why he created his own pseudo-random number generator to choose a random number. Epic nerdery indeed.
We get into some deep philosophical discussions, including the implications of predetermination on life, our brains, and decisions we make around consent & autonomy, as well as fuzzy / murky consent. I also take the opportunity to shamelessly mention JM Bergerâs Optimal and my Gikii presentation (which I dive into more detail on in this post).
Jasonâs Million Dollar Idea: Youâll have to listen in, but I promise, this is so good.
Hey Policymakers: Theory is Nice, But We Need Some Practical Guidance: Jason shares how one of the biggest glaring problems in privacy and data protection is the lack of specificity in the law, especially when it comes to implementing and building in privacy by design. High-level principles based theory is good, but as he notes âwhen the rubber hits the road, what does all of this mean and how do you get people to implement it?â Much ranting occurs concerning Article 25 GDPR.
Changing Personal History & Defining Success: Jason reflects on how a different opportunity might have radically reshaped his life. We then go totally off the rails and we end on a discussion of meteors and Armageddon, before coming back to Earth and hearing his views on what success means for him.
Cognitive Biases & Cultural Influences: We all wax on about the different global views on privacy, and Jason leads us back to how cultural influences and biases often shape (or determine) how we think about privacy, autonomy, obligations, and even what approaches to take. This, he argues should be considered and inform practitioners when it comes to training, raising awareness, and informing others about data protection. Jason also shared a new-to-us cognitive biasâthe Einstellung Effect, which refers to a personâs predisposition to solve a given problem in a specific manner even though better or more appropriate methods exist. When all you have is a hammerâŠ
Wrapping Up: We close discussing the future of technology and Jasonâs dystopian and hopeful futures. Naturally, AI & LLMs came up, as well as overreliance on tools that âdo it for usâ versus being additive. If you listen in, you might get the inadvertent pun we were dancing around the entire timeâŠ
Timeline:
* 00:00 Introduction to Chance Conversations
* 00:17 Meet R. Jason Cronk: Privacy Expert
* 01:08 Explaining the Rules of the Game
* 02:17 Predetermination and Free Will
* 05:13 The Concept of Consent in Privacy
* 09:43 Career Highlights and Aspirations
* 12:38 Challenges in Privacy Training
* 14:41 Policy Makers and Privacy Engineering
* 20:09 Personal Reflections: Decisions That Shaped My Life
* 22:06 Hypothetical Time Travel: Changing History
* 23:46 Career Insights: Defining Success
* 25:02 Global Perspectives on Privacy
* 29:15 Cognitive Biases and Privacy Training
* 31:30 Future of Technology: Dystopian vs. Hopeful
* 37:40 Closing Thoughts and Farewell
Our next guest will be Liz Steininger of Least Authority!
Like what youâre hearing? You also might like Privacat Insights!
Consider sharing this episode with a friend or colleague â or leaving a comment below.
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In this episode of Chance Conversations, Conor and I interview Shoshana Rosenberg, co-founder of Logical AI Governance and co-founder of Women in AI Governance.
Good Bosses Can Guide Us: We kick off by touching on significant career influences in Shoshanaâs life, including what she has learned from supportive, inspiring leaders who let her take chances outside of what was listed on the job spec. We then discuss one of Shoshanaâs many passions: operationalizing AI governance and her PRISM framework, as well as her passion for fostering an inclusive AI community.
DEI, Digital Agency & Explainability: Shoshana discusses her journey, including the founding of SafePorter, a DEI tool suite with a privacy-by-design approach, and the importance in recognizing a right of âdigital agencyâ when it comes to personal information and data.
For Shoshana, digital agency is interlinked with explainability, particularly with regards to AI and algorithmic decision making. Here we discuss the distinctions between technical âexplainabilityâ or understandability (like the model weights, data provenance & architecture), versus explainability when it comes to context, controls, and the decision-making processes that models undertake.
On Writing a Book: Did you know Shoshana wants to write a book? According to Conorâs mom, âwe all have at least one book in usâ, but in the case of Shoshana, I suspect sheâs actually going to write that book (or books). We even mused about a collaborative fiction book with other privacy pros, which sounds like fun. Maybe I can write a cat-privacy themed haiku?
On Fear, Bravery, Trust and Taking Risks: Shoshana offers some sage advice to a younger version of herself about not being afraid to go after things, even if itâs not the ideal (or initial) path you expected. Then she turns the question back on us! We also talk about trust, and what bravery means in many different contexts. It gets very philosophical, yâall.
AI Governance & Recycled Air: She offers insights into the future of AI governance, what it means to her, and the pernicious problem of ârecycled airâ â where people fall back to saying and relying on the comfortable and familiar, rather than taking a bold stance or saying something genuinely unique or different. As Shoshana reminds us âWeâre in the Mining Eraâ â and no, weâre not talking about gold or crypto.
Finally on to Low Tech Problems, Solutions, and Back to Trust: We end with a brief discussion of the importance of handling low-tech problems (aka, we should be worried less about Terminator AI, and more about social engineering), and the value of low-tech solutions. There may, or may not be a product plug here, but we do go back to the all-important question of trust.
It was a great conversation, and we had a wonderful time chatting with Shoshana. Also, Iâd be remiss if I didnât mention that I recently had the opportunity to take Shoshanaâs excellent August AI Leadership bootcamp. Shoshana ran us through the paces, where we learned the value of logical frameworks, including her companyâs signature LEARN and PRISM methodologies. Shoshanaâs courses are vibrant, interactive, and delightfully intimate course, and one I highly recommend to other AI leaders (or those looking to become AI leaders!). Youâll learn a lot, though I suspect itâs a small tip of the huge iceberg of knowledge that Shoshana has.
Timeline:
* 00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
* 00:22 Shoshana's Background and Achievements
* 00:41 Women in AI Governance
* 01:01 SafePorter and Privacy by Design
* 02:00 Ground Rules for the Conversation
* 03:49 Career Highlights and Mentorship
* 10:04 Personal Goals and Writing a Book
* 12:23 Future of Technology and AI Governance
* 17:18 Explainability vs. Understandability
* 20:31 Advice to our Younger Selves
* 21:01 Navigating Career Paths: Trusting the Journey
* 22:21 Embracing Risks and Learning from Mistakes
* 23:18 The Importance of Trust and Vulnerability
* 24:16 The Role of Cynicism and Trust in Professional Life
* 25:48 Personal Growth and Self-Trust
* 28:27 The Value of Diverse Perspectives
* 31:13 Underhyped Aspects of Technology and Security
* 35:45 Final Thoughts and Reflections
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Welcome to another thrilling episode of Chance Conversations!
In this episode, Conor and I sit down with the dynamic Lisa Forte, a partner at Red Goat Cybersecurity and an awe-inspiring high-altitude climber and caver.
Lisa shares her mountain (get it?) of insights on cybersecurity, personal adventures, and life lessons that will leave you inspired, contemplative, and a little jealous (I know I was).
A little about Lisa: Lisa is not your average cybersecurity expert. Beyond her role at Red Goat Cybersecurity, where she runs cyber crisis simulations and awareness courses, Lisa is an accomplished mountain climber and caver. Her exploits have taken her to some of the world's highest peaks and most exotic locations, and she has starred in several documentaries while regularly contributing to BBC news and national papers.
Navigating High-Stakes Environments: In a light-hearted yet profound moment, Lisa captures the essence of balancing perfectionism and humility. She shared how her type-A personality has evolved to make her a better consultant and person, by leveraging the positives of getting things right, while simultaneously putting her ego to the side and really listening to client and business needs. Even if their right and her right donât match.
As the sole professed Type B in the conversation, Conor really appreciated the humility angle.
Adventures in the Central Asian 'Stans: Lisa also drew perhaps, one of the best questions in the bunch for a jet-setter such as herself â Whatâs one part of the world she would love to visit but hasnât yet. If you want to find out where sheâs been (and where she hopes to go soon), youâll have to tune in.
Hint: This countryâs landmass is known for its mountainous terrain and breathtaking landscapes. Also, the Pallasâ cat, a famous wildcat in the area, has been celebrated on a postage stamp.
But she also reminds us that her travels are not just leisure but also about practicing resilience in daily life, broadening her perspectives, and connecting to others who have diverse cultural and societal viewpoints.
Lisaâs Most Impactful Person: Lisa shared her thoughts on how an impactful science teacher early on shaped who she was and helped her find a place. We all then spent a good bit of time reminiscing over why we each found value through special science teachers in our lives.
A Brush with Mortality: One of the most impactful moments in the conversation was Lisa's recount of a life-altering accident she had a decade ago. The severe brain injury she sustained caused her to reassess her approach to life, imbuing her with a 'seize-the-day' mentality. This experience has propelled her to live fully and fearlessly, urging others to embrace life's opportunities without delay.
One of those take-aways? Focus more on the actual experience, and less on taking a selfie of you in the experience.
Final Thoughts: As the episode wrapped up, Lisa threw a thought-provoking question back to us:
"If you could see one thing happen in our industry in the next year, what would it be?"
Letâs just say, we had some thoughts. Though none of them were quite as profound as what Lisa had to share.
In short, whether you're interested in cybersecurity, personal development, or thrilling travel tales, this interview has something for everyone.
Timeline:
* 00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction
* 01:36 Explaining the Rules of the Game
* 03:20 Career Insights: Lisa's Comparative Advantage
* 09:10 Personal Questions: Dream Destinations and Travel Stories
* 15:55 Industry Trends: Overhyped Technologies
* 24:00 Career Reflections: Influential Figures
* 24:59 A Teacher's Influence
* 28:36 A Life-Changing Accident
* 30:53 Living in the Moment
* 36:23 The Importance of Redundancy
* 40:35 Final Thoughts and Reflections
PS: our next episode, where we'll chat with the remarkable Shoshana Rosenberg, co-founder of Logical AI Governance. Catch you next time on Chance Conversations!
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Ever wondered how an idea can snowball into something incredible?
I honestly think thatâs exactly what happened with our new podcast, Chance Conversations.
In our inaugural episode, we had the honor of speaking with the legendary Ralph O'Brien, principal of Renbo Consulting Limited and a visiting fellow at Maastricht University. With decades of experience in global privacy and security compliance, heâs seen it all, and lived to tell the tale.
We kicked off with Ralph playfully questioning the "chance" aspect of our conversation, and once we put his mind at ease, Ralph shared his insightful views on how policymakers often ignore the voice of data protection pros before diving into how special the data protection and privacy community really is. Right back atcha, Ralph.
Perhaps one of the most inspiring moments came when discussing career advice. Ralphâs dedication to mentoring the new generation of data protection professionals clearly shines through and really made Conor and I smile. As Ralph wisely said:
If I can get paid for doing something that I find morally and ethically good, my motto, if you like, what I'd written on my gravestone is hopefully Iâm somebody who made a difference.
And that's really all I want.
For those who love a bit of existential pondering, Ralph even shared his thoughts on predetermination vs random chance. I told you this podcast would be like having a chat with an old friend!
We even dove into some playful banter about his recent London meetup (which was looking to draw quite a motley crew of folks in the English data protection and privacy scene). Let us know in the comments if you were able to attend.
Curious to hear more about Ralph's take on technology's role in data protection, his candid thoughts on the profession, or what fuels his passion? Tune in to our very first episode and join us in celebrating those unforeseen, yet deeply meaningful conversations. Conor and I have both learned so much from Ralph (and our other amazing guests) and we hope you will also benefit.
Transcript Timeline:
* 00:18 Meet Ralph O'Brien: Privacy and Security Expert
* 01:05 Explaining the Rules of the Game
* 01:28 Industry Trends and Insights: Data Protection Challenges
* 09:27 Career Observations: Ralph's Journey and Advice
* 18:29 Personal Questions: Existential Views and Beliefs
* 22:56 Artificial Intelligence: Hype, Reality, and Future
* 26:29 The Role of AI in Our Lives
* 26:43 Tech Bros and Black Mirror
* 27:26 AI's Present and Future Impact
* 28:49 Creativity and AI: A Complex Relationship
* 30:25 The Human Spark of Creativity
* 31:52 The Hero's Journey and Patterns in Storytelling
* 32:55 Mentorship and Community in Data Protection
* 39:08 Personal Reflections and Advice
* 43:39 Conclusion and Farewell
By the way, weâve got more coming up. Stay tuned for our next episode featuring the incredible Lisa Forte of Red Goat Cybersecurity. Until then, happy listening!
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A few months ago, a dear friend and colleague (Conor Hogan) and I were musing about creating a podcast. We waffled on concepts for months, but nothing really stuck.
That is, until I came across the amazing Wild Card podcast hosted by Rachel Martin. The premise is novel: Rachel interviews some of the worldâs greatest artists, thinkers, actors, and musicians, and asks guests to pick a card across three categories. Neither she, nor the guest know the question on that card, but itâs always interesting. What makes this fun is that itâs so unscripted â so raw and real.
When I heard this, I realized this would be a brilliant vehicle for interviewing people within the data protection, information security, AI, tech and adjacent spaces. Conor loved it, and so far, all six of the guests weâve interviewed have also really enjoyed this strange experience into the slightly unknown.
Our podcast is a bit less existential, but it sill maintains the serendipity and opportunity to learn about people we might know in the industry or online, in a format thatâs quite different than most podcasts.
Conor and I have been learning a lot from our guests, and over the next few months, weâll be sharing these âChance Conversationsâ with you.
Like us, I hope you enjoy listening. Hereâs a teaser episode.
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