Afleveringen
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Hey there
Welcome to the first conscient roundtable conversation recorded on Saturday March 1, 2025 in Tiohtià:ke (also known as Montreal).
This episode features local artists, activists and cultural workers Alyssa Scott, Devon Hardy, Jimmy Ung, Katrine Claassens, Sophie Weider, Sébastian Méric de Bellefon and myself (I’m actually from Ottawa) talking about our passions, fears and dreams and engaging in some playful banter, though, I have to say, this group had some pretty serious issues on their minds.
Do you know any art and science jokes?
Our conversation lasted 91 minutes and is presented here without any edits but before running the tape, so to speak, I want to share 4 of my favorite excerpts from this roundtable to whet your appetite and set the table for the feast of words you are about to hear.
First we talked a lot about artists and scientist during this session, for example, Sophie Weider observed that :
What I think is interesting about making art about a problem that I guess came out through science because it brings in the audience and prompts the audience to reflect on themselves as part of this problem or as part of this innovation or whatever it is. I think that that brings in the identity piece that you were talking about, Jimmy, where it's like even just consuming art is a way of discovering yourself and your identity. But then art that asks you to reflect, or perhaps create, art that might be engaging or community engaged art does that extra step of now that you've reflected and seen, okay, wait, I'm part of something bigger than myself, what do I have to say about it or what do I have to do about it.Shortly after, Jimmy Ung, who was our host that day along with his wife Hannah, responded:
And we're thinking about this art-science relation. And to me, it's always felt clear to me that what art can do for science is to democratize science. It's to make it more accessible. But then what I'm curious is about, about is what can science do for the arts? And I'm kind of stuck there in my own mind, like, what is it that science can do for artists? And I kind of often approach life through three pillars of beauty, which is art, goodness, which is morality and ethics, and then truth, which is the role of science, I think. And I always felt that the answer is often that the third one is always the mediator. So when trying to find how to better find that balance between art and science, then we should look to morality and ethics. And when we try to find the balance between what's good and what's true, then it's the role of art to be the mediator, and so on and so forth.And you'll hear at the very end, and I hope you're able to stay until the end. Sophie Weider again talked about the end of the world as we know it, which is something that's always on my mind. It's a topic that I often explore in this podcast, but I love Sophie's take on it. So here it is.
Just to quickly respond to your comment about despair of the world as we know it. Obviously there is a lot of science and yeah, information about the direction the world is heading and, and I think we can assume that things will go badly before they're again good. But I would like to say that like the end of the world as we know it is not necessarily a bad thing. We all know that there are huge systemic problems that are causing the challenges we're facing today. And those things need to be solved, and we need to have a fundamental shift to see them solved. Whether that will happen or whether human race will just fizzle out, who knows? But I'd like to think that change will happen and that it is possible, at least possible that it could be positive in some way, at least, maybe at the end of the day, even if a lot of hardship has to come before then. I don't know if that's hopeful or just sad, but that's my take.And a few seconds later, Katrine Claassens, one of our guests, talked about artists as midwives:
Maybe just to add to what you said about thinking of artists as midwives, we are not death doulas (providing hospice care) but rather as midwives for another world.Katrine later refers to an artwork in California : https://liztoohey-wiese.com/forced-into-a-great-and-difficult-transformation
So, you get the idea.
You’ll hear these four excerpts in context in a few minutes but i like the way they set us in the mood to listen. I want to thank the brave participants of this first roundtable session for their generosity, courage and wisdom. They are now on the public record as cool and visionary people. If listeners want to know more about these conscient roundtables – why I created them or background on brave new waves and David Bohm’s dialogue work - please read or listen to my posting on my a calm presence called conscient roundtables.
And if you want to comment on what you hear please go to conscient.ca and use any of the conscient podcast social media to share your thoughts. If you like what you hear then I invite you to share it within your networks and-or give conscient podcast a review on apple podcasts. All of this helps to get these conversations to circulate and create a bit of buzz about the issues we care about and that merit more public conversations.
My email is [email protected]
So please relax and enjoy this roundtable on art and science and more.
Note: because of the length and informal nature of this roundtable episode I have not generated a transcription beyond the four quotes above.
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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I think that the first thing artists have to do is to start telling the truth. You know, just like climate change five or six years ago, you just didn't really want to talk about it. You got shunned in polite company if you talked about it. Now we have the c word, right? We've got collapse. But the conversation hasn't started yet. And I think just broadly speaking, the artistic community… The best of the artistic community, has always been on the edge, right? The social edge. Pushing, complaining, challenging, resisting…
Robert R. Janes
My conversation with archaeologist and former museum director and CEO Robert (Bob) R. Janes (author of Museums and Societal Collapse : The Museum as Lifeboat) and his son, famer and educator Peter Janes (author of Fake Plants Never Die - an eclectic technical instruction manual - Essays on pre-apocalyptic adaptation) at TreeEater Farm and Nursery on Denman Island, September 16, 2024. This episode is condensation of a 90-minute conversation into ‘fifteen’.
Suggested questions and action points
Tell the truth through your artKeep fighting: push, complain, challenge, resistAssume responsibility by action, not just by protestingWhat can you get rid of?What should you bring back?Why are you creating art?Why does your museum exist?What solutions do you propose?What are your non-negotiable values?Please see the transcript of this episode for hyperlinks of cited publications and organizations. For more information on season 6 of the conscient podcast see a conscient rethink or listen to it here.
Episode notes generated by Whisper Transcribe AI
Story Preview
Can art save us? A former museum director and his son, a regenerative farmer, confront a world on the brink, finding solace and solutions in the land and in rethinking the very purpose of our cultural institutions. It’s a story of hard truths, reluctant hope, and the power of reconnecting with nature.
Chapter Summary
00:00 The Call for Truth in Art
01:02 Building an Educational Farm
02:19 Lessons from Indigenous Cultures
04:43 Museums as Lifeboats
06:57 Navigating Hope and Hopelessness
10:21 Regenerative Practices in Agriculture
12:09 Art’s Role in Environmental AdvocacyFeatured Quotes
{03:32} You can’t separate cultural affairs from the natural environment, that they’re inextricably linked together. - Robert R. Janes{09:17} I make a personal effort towards hope, but I don’t feel any hope. - Peter Janes{11:39} It’s the message that’s important now. And that message is telling the truth. - Robert R. JanesBehind the Story
Robert R. Janes, with nearly five decades in the museum business, reflects on his early archaeological work and a transformative experience living with Dene families near the Arctic Circle. This shaped his understanding of social ecology. His son, Peter, driven by a desire to correct educational inadequacies, established a farm focused on regenerative practices. Together, they offer a vision for a future rooted in sustainability, truth, and a reconnection with the natural world.
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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I’ve been (earnestly) taking courses, workshops and seminars these last few years, while producing over 300 podcasts about art and ecology, as my way of helping future generations prepare for what we are leaving them.
My most recent learning and unlearning exercise is Surviving the Future: The Deeper Dive 2025, a 10 week course inspired by the work of British ecologist David Fleming.
I wrote about the first three weeks of the course in prepare, bend, sustain posting (also available in audio). So this is part 2 of 2.
Surviving the Future has been very influential in my life.
I took it while I was on break from my conscient podcast and it has helped figure out what to do next, which I outline in a conscient rethink (also available in audio).
My key research questions are :
What needs to be said ? (what is content that is not being heard)Who needs to say it ? (who are the right person(s) to tell the story or explain the issue)Who wants to hear it ? (who is the audience and needs to hear it)How does it help? (eg people who are already overwhelmed: how can a podcast help move things forward)So what was Surviving the Future like?
It was dense and wonderfully curated by Shaun Chamberlin and others.
Here’s an example.
On Monday February 24, 2025, our special guests were the dynamic mother/daughter duo Vanessa and Gina Andreotti, both members of the Gesturing Towards Decolonial Futures (GTDF) collective. I often refer to the GTDF’s work in my learnings.
The session centered around Burnout From Humans : A Little Book About AI That Is Not Really About AI:
a playful reflection on complexity, connection, and the future of human-AI relationships. Co-authored by an emergent intelligence and a human researcher, this work explores the tangled dynamics of humanity’s relationship with artificial intelligence, Earth, and itself.It was an engaging and challenging session about AI from indigenous and decolonial perspectives.
After our exchange, Vanessa and the GTDF collective published an Open letter to the participants of the Surviving the Future program, which I was a part of. They offered feedback and learnings from our conversation, such as the distinction between critique and jurisdiction and how the architecture of power often remains invisible to those who have historically and systemically benefited from it.
Benefactors like myself.
The session was difficult but empowering.
Looking into the mirror like that is when I realized that Surviving the Future was also about knowing and surviving myself, understanding myself and overcoming, as Vanessa Andretotti notes, the ‘limits that modernity continuously tries to impose’.
We certainly faced some of those limitations.
This excerpt from the February 24th letter resonates and haunts me :
The world as we have known it is unraveling. Both the dominant frameworks and those once seen as transgressive are failing to hold. This collapse is not just structural; it is psychological. The infrastructures that stabilized people within modernity—its myths, its promises, its assurances, its rhythms of control—are breaking apart. The result will not be gentle. We must prepare for a long, messy, species-wide existential meltdown.How does one prepare for a long, messy, species-wide existential meltdown?
Here a short story.
I was a deputy returning officer at the February 27, 2025, Ontario provincial election. My job was to confirm the eligibility of voters and hand them a ballot.
It was my civic duty and an opportunity to get to know some of my neighbours and co-citizens.
Some voters had just turned 18 and were visibly excited about participating in democracy for the first time.
As I handed each young adult a ballot, I looked them in the eye, wished them well, but in the back of my mind I could not help thinking about the ‘long, messy, species-wide existential meltdown’ that awaits them.
Now most young adults are well aware of this incoming meltdown. They talk about it openly.
For example, my son, historian Riel Schryer, in conscient e154:
I don't think there's going to be any serious response to the climate crisis until real catastrophes start happening. That tends to be how it works. And once you start seeing that, then you'll start seeing very serious action being put in place. Although, we'll see at that point, if it's too late or not.Also, my daughter, scientist Clara Schryer, in conscient e208:
… changes happen : there are always ways to adapt. That’s not to say that the initial change might not be kind of catastrophic, but there's always going to be something left and you have to work with that.Is it too late?
How do we work with what is left?
At a Surviving the Future reflection session on March 6th course leader Shaun Chamberlin read to us this quote by Canadian writer, teacher and grief literacy advocate Stephen Jenkinson :
The question is not ‘are we going to fail?’ The question is ‘how?’ The question is what shall be the manner of our inability to care for what was entrusted to us?
So what does a baby boomer like myself do to regain a sacred trust to future generations that my generation has betrayed?
These are the kinds of questions and dilemmas that we pondered during the course and took a deeper dive into those issues.
Thankfully we had access to a wide range of resources and conversations that helped us navigate these complex waters.
For example, I found comfort in this excerpt from Paul Kingsnorth’s Confessions of a Recovering Environmentalist :
In an age in which ‘fighting for the planet’ most often means tweeting, signing petitions, writing blogs and sometimes going on a march, the rhetoric seems not only overblown but likely to obscure the value of more focused, small-scale personal commitments to changing things for the better. … In 1978, [Wendell] Berry wrote to [Gary] Snyder … ‘Maybe the answer is to fight always for what you particularly love, not for abstractions and not against anything: don’t fight against even the devil, and don’t fight to “save the world”.’ … Once you start thinking you are responsible, or can influence, everything, you are lost. When you take responsibility for a specific something, on the other hand, it’s possible you might get somewhere.Local action kept coming up as a path forward during the course. The argument is that an individual can have the most impact locally such as with permaculture or community arts or really any form of action that engages with and preserves life where we live.
The issue of grief also kept coming back.
For example, this teaching from Stephen Jenkinson’s So What Now?:
Grief requires of us that we know what time we’re in. And the great enemy of grief is hope. … Our time requires of us to be hope free. To burn through the false choice between hopeful and hopeless. … We don’t require hope to proceed. We require grief to proceed.Conversations about grief led me to think about grief and grieving in the context of hope and hopelessness.
The timing was good because during the course I was editing the first episode of season 6 of my conscient podcast and my conversation with farmer and educator Peter Janes and his father, archeologist and former museum director Robert R. Janes, of TreeEater Farm, touched upon hope and hopelessness :
Here’s Peter :
I have a mixed relationship with that concept of hope. Because I actually genuinely have very little hope for the continuation of humanity. But then at the same time, every day I'm out here making bigger ponds and planting trees that I think will do better. And trying to bring on board people with the same ideas and visions. So it's a bit of a contradiction.Here’s Bob’s take:
It's really easy to be hopeless. And I suppose it's rather contradictory to say hopeless but still want to do things constructively to overcome that hopelessness. And so, I guess that's what I mean. There are so many things we can do. I mean, we know what we need to do to weather this storm, but I guess the sacrifice and the suffering it's going to cause is just too much for people's imagination. So, there's middle ground with all that. And again, this farm is a source of being helpful, and I guess underneath that, being hopeful and a source of being. What was the mantra? Hopeless, but not helpless. Yeah. And the farm for me is that, is that tool, it's that environment. It's the context to do helpful things and to pave the way for the future.That’s why I took the Surviving the Future course, hoping that a deeper dive, led by experts, would help me understand and face the complexities around us.
I was not disappointed.
Each week’s readings, assignments, conversations, and meditations brought me deeper and deeper into, the compost of modernity, so to speak.
I experienced intense moments of joy and sorrow. Of discouragement and hopefulness. Mostly, however, I was bewildered and slightly more able to acceptance to what is going on and explore new possibilities.
Surviving the Future also helped me let go of my ego, by engaging in deeper listening to others and myself while release the compulsion to be the smartest kid in the room.
No need to be anything other than an ordinary learner.
Overall the course was both an exercise in humility and an opportunity to develop and maintain capacity.
And that powerful February 24th open letter stayed with me, notably its conclusion:
As a collective, we move with the discernment this moment demands—not with arrogance, but with honesty. Not in defiance, but in commitment. Not against anyone but reaching beyond the limits that modernity continuously tries to impose.
So I’ll work on discernment, honesty, commitment and reaching beyond.
To be honest, this kind of introspection is hard work and we all need resources and support.
Here are some of the resources from Surviving the Future that have been the most impactful and relevant for me:
AIDEN CINNAMON TEA & DOROTHY LADYBUGBOSS’ Burnout From Humans : A Little Book About AI That Is Not Really About AIDavid Fleming’s: LEAN LOGIC - A DICTIONARY for the FUTURE and HOW to SURVIVE ITIsabelle Fremeaux & Jay Jordan’s : We Are 'Nature' Defending ItselfJoanna Macy on The Great Turning and CollapseNate Hagens’ Animated Series | The Great SimplificationThere are many more. I’ll mention other resources in future postings.
So what did I learn and unlearn during these 10 weeks?
Do the best you can until you know better. Then, when you know better, do better (Maya Angelou)Staying with the trouble (Donna Haraway) : no more rushing around to quick fixes, conclusions, simplistic solutions or passing judgements on situations that are still unfoldingMeditate daily: I am not what I thinkThe Master’s tools will never dismantle the Master’s house (Audre Lorde)When the children born today look back 30 years from now, what actions would they be grateful that we took right now? (GTDF collective)I’ll conclude with this excerpt from Shaun Chamberlin’s The Secret Truth Behind Environmentalists’ Favourite Argument :
For me personally, the harsh truth is that I cannot save Nature and/or humanity from the ongoing devastation, though I could burn myself out trying. It seems to me that there is not one thing that I can do to divert history. And facing that reality hurts. But, beyond agony, joy. I sit with that pain, and its attendant tears and rage, I refuse to run from it or to distract myself with entertainment or with frantic work, and I find that it does not end me. Eventually, I come out the other side, somehow empowered. The psychic energy I have been using to suppress that fear and despair is released, and I look at the world with fresh eyes. ‘Ok’, I breathe, ‘here I am, in a dying world’. It’s the same dying world I lived in yesterday, but today I see it for what it is. ‘What now?’ And this time the question feels less desperate, less anxious. What story do I want to tell with this day, with this life? The question is suddenly filled with possibilities.My take on this, is that we need to explore the possibilities that emerge as we work our way through that ‘long, messy, species-wide existential meltdown’ while calmly preparing for what comes after, with or without humans.
BTW you might have noticed I did not mention art at all, in this posting.
I’m rethinking my relationship with art.
My definition of art, also, is evolving.
I’ll publish a separate piece called ‘l’art est mort : vive l’art’ soon.
Warm thanks Shaun, Nakasi, Nicole and all the Surviving the Future 2025 team and participants for their generosity and collaboration during the course and beyond.
Note: The cover photo is of Henry Moore’s Large Two Forms in Grange Park, Tkaronto.
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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Note: to read this posting on a calm presence see a conscient rethink
a conscient rethink
What needs to be said? Who needs to say it? Who wants to hear it? How does it help?
February 16th, 2025, on the unceded lands of the Algonquin-Anishinaabe people.
I started publishing the conscient podcast and balado conscient in May of 2020.
My goal was to ‘explore art and the ecological crisis as a learning and unlearning journey’.
At that time I believed that ‘the arts and culture could play a critical role in raising awareness about sustainability issues and moving people towards action.’
Maybe. Maybe not.
At any rate, some 300 episodes later, I felt that this first leg of my conscient journey is complete and that I owe deep gratitude to my collaborators and to you, for listening.
It’s now time to rethink conscient.
Some of you might recall in my listen and co-create posting on a calm presence and this quote from the Intercultural Communication Handbook :
Sensing, attending and being patient requires slowing down, pausing, and taking time to listen, look, feel and learn. Seeking to activate and use all our senses to relate as part of the world. This involves learning through relationships, through actions and through careful attention, not just through asking questions and talking a lot. Being patient and humble enables recognition of the myriad of messages that humans and non-human beings are always sending out.These wise words encouraged me to slow me down and inspired me to take a pause from the production of conscient during the winter of 2025 and I tried to follow this good advice.
Others are also advocating for a slow down and a rethink.
For example Kai writes in Dense Discovery – Issue 326 / When enough outrage is enough :
We have enough information. We know where we stand. The challenge now isn’t to understand more, but to act on what we already know, redirecting our energy from pointless online reaction to tangible local action. As I’ve said here before, we don’t need more clever dunks. We need more people showing up – in our communities, in our work, in the unglamorous spaces where real change takes root.What did I do?
I listened to everyday life.
I stopped judging.
I meditated on presence.
I conversed with colleagues in the 10 week Surviving the Future : The Deeper Dive 2025 course.
I shared some of my experiences in prepare, bend, sustain.
I read and listened to Shaun Chamberlin’s Dark Optimism, Nate Hagens’ The Great Simplification and Kamea Chayne’s Green Dreamer.
I also shovelled snow, learned to play tennis and played shinny.
Lots of shinny.
I also pondered listener feedback from previous seasons of conscient. Here are a few :
your guests are inspiring and the conversations are nourishing : it fills a gapwhy don’t you present more diversity of voices, in particular from young people and the global south your conversations often go on too long. We’re more likely to listen if you edit them downyou narrate too slowly : I. sometimes. fall. asleep. listening. to. you. drone. on.your podcast is not enough fun : why don't you try to be more uplifting and positiveintegrating soundscape compositions actually works well: it makes your podcast unique and compellingWhy not give us more practical tools to engage with the issues not just philosophical musings and doomist projectionstry to be a bit more humblebreathe more quietly and smoothlyWith this feedback in mind, I came up with a set of questions to guide my work future forward:
What needs to be said?Who needs to say it?Who wants to hear it?How does it help?In other words, what is the point of all this chatter?
I thought back to why I listen to podcasts in the first place and what keeps me listening?
I listen to podcasts because they help me:
break me out of isolationaccept collapsefeel solidarity and connectionunlearngenerate spiritual and physical energyempathise through tone of voicenurture presence through hesitationlaugh and cryslow down and listenkeep going in spite of the oddsconscient podcast studio production space
So, with all of this in mind, I’ve decided to go ahead and produce a 6th season of conscient.
You’ll be able to hear three episode types:
1. fifteens
15 minute ‘composed’ conversations with leading artists and cultural workers exploring the theme of ‘arts and culture in times of crisis, collapse, renewal’ with a focus on actions. A fifteen is a coffee break of insight.
2. roundtables
Long duration, informal banter with friends and colleagues about their passions, fears and dreams, inspired by the innovative ways of the 1980’s era CBC Radio’s overnight talk show Brave New Waves. Participants are invited to tell a good story and to expect to be interrupted and maybe teased once in a while. A roundtable is an engaging kitchen party.
3. a calm presence
These bonus episodes are me narrating each a calm presence Substack posting including additional commentary and soundscape compositions. It’s intended for those who, like me, prefer listening over reading.
I will launch season 6 at spring equinox on Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5.01am (EDT).
access
subscribe to conscient podcast or balado conscient (free) on your favorite podcast player : Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Podchaser, Tune in, YouTubesubscribe to a calm presence (free) on Substackfollow and comment on conscient social media : Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Threads and BlueSky visit conscient.ca to search and listen to any individual Episodes or read episode notes and transcriptsAs always, if you like something you hear or read, please share.
Feel free to reach me with questions and comments at [email protected]
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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Note: I wrote this facebook posting this morning (February 11, 2025) that I’m repurposing as a calm presence essay and as a bonus episode of conscient.
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Hi,
We need social media spaces that are non profit, with decent values and ethics, community spirit and maturity.
This will come.
In the meantime we have extractive behemoths like Meta, that are nonetheless the product of human ingenuity and that are useful to help connect (even though I think having coffee with a friend or chatting by a fire is better.)
This morning I was reading a column in The Maple called ‘Your comments on the American Menace’ by Alex Cosh.
This comment resonated :
Canadian politicians understand that this national formation is in an inherently frail state [...] I would propose that Canada has fundamental weaknesses in its institutional memory and cultural identity that Canadians feel on a subconscious level. In my opinion the basis for this is the obvious compatibility of our society with American monoculture via settler-colonialism [...] The retreat to mythologies and consumerist nationalism cannot serve as a long-term alternative to actual nation-building projects such as reconciliation and constitutional reform [...] The things we grasp onto in moments of anxiety are merely symbolic; what is required is a real and tangible national project that serves to mend the foundational fracture at the base of Canadian society stemming from the relationship between Indigenous peoples, settlers and the land. Window dressing is not going to cut it.Gratitude to the author of this comment, whose name I don’t know.
I would add that in the context of the climate emergency, massive change is in the air anyway.
I’m excited by this window of opportunity to ‘mend the foundational fracture’ of life on Turtle Island.
Many organizations and artists have been working on this kind of revisioning.
Now is their time.
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Photo: Adawe Bridge on Rideau River, February 11, 2025
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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What triggered my climate denial bubble to burst? I feel compelled to share this personal experience, in the hope that it might help others who are also struggling with the current sustainability crisis and searching for a path forward…
This is an ENCORE episode of the conscient podcast from season 1, episode 1, first published on April 30, 2020.
Kaboom !
You’ll understand what this Kaboom is about in a few minutes.
This episode…
explores my reaction, or at least my experience, when I became much more aware of the climate emergency and what it meant to me and to my family in particular, my daughterOur daughter Clara was 17 when I recorded this episode. Clara’s now 23. In 2024 I recorded e208 clara schryer - science as story where Clara talks about her memory of a conversation we had on May 14th 2019 that proved to pivotal in both our lives:
At the time, I think I knew that I was interested in earth science, but I thought maybe I should do engineering because maybe that's actually more useful. And I didn't end up doing that. I ended up doing what I wanted to do, which I think was probably an okay choice. But anyways, that was kind of the context. But I remember that conversation as being one of the first times that you really expressed to me that you were interested in participating in this kind of climate and environment work and that you were kind of, you know, I guess to me that part of that conversation was like, well, you have to make changes in whatever world you are in and you were in the art world, so that's what you kind of focused on.I did end up focusing on art and ecology in a number of ways and that conversation was the triggering point. I remember it very clearly. We were driving on Mann Street here in Ottawa. You’ll hear the story in a few minutes. This conversation triggered me to retire from my job at Canada Council in September 2020 and to devote myself full time on the climate emergency.
I thought it would be interesting to go back to this very first episode of conscient and listen to how talk about my anxiety and terror about the climate crisis that was unfolding.
On the morning of May 13th I came upon an article in the Guardian, We’re Doomed: Mayer Hillman on the climate reality no one else will dare mention, where Hillman predicted that ‘the outcome is death, and it’s the end of most life on the planet because we’re so dependent on the burning of fossil fuels. There are no means of reversing the process which is melting the polar ice caps.’The episode is quite disheartening, eg. facing reality directly, but there are moments of hope, for example, at the end of the episode I read this quote from indigenous writer Richard Wagamese’s For Joshua :
We may not relight the fires that used to burn in our villages, but we carry the embers from those fires in our hearts and learn to light new fires in a new world. We can recreate the spirit of community we had, of kinship, or relationship to all things, of union with the land, harmony with the universe, balance in living, humility, honesty, truth, and wisdom in all of our dealings with each other.’And this to me is the power of stories, to help rekindle the embers in our hearts, to recreate the spirit of community we once had… stories have the potential to both terrify us into action but also help us slow down inspire to carry on, to process our grief, deepening our relations and imagine new worlds.
Note : Il existe également une version en français de cet épisode sur le balado conscient é02 éveil - éclater ma bulle de dénie.
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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prepare, bend, sustain
what I learned in the first 3 weeks of surviving the future 2025
Note: the original posting on my a calm presence Substack is here.
Sarah Heynen, Executive Director of the Canadian Centre for Food & Ecology, suggested I take Surviving the Future : The Deeper Dive (StF), a 10 week course offered by Sterling College, in Vermont. The course is informed by the work of English economist, cultural historian and writer David Flemingand is led by British author and activist Shaun Chamberlin.
Sarah was right about taking the course.
So far it has been very intense, quite a bit of fun, with moments of, I would call it… terror.
I'm going to share some of my findings with you.
I noted what I learned (and unlearned) during StF 2025 from amazing presentations, engaged conversations, creative exercises, bold documentaries, vigorous debates and mutual support sessions : all kinds of interesting and enriching learning.
However, it all boiled down to this slide that our first guest presenter Nate Hagens (host of The Great Simplificationpodcast) shared with us in the first week.
My reading of this slide is that we need to :
prepare for systems failure and societal collapsebend like bamboo without breaking during the turmoil and devastationsustain ecological balance during recovery and regenerationNothing else really matters.
It might seem simplistic to bring it down to 3 words but it really helped me focus.
As the course unfolded, I made note of some of my favorite sayings and moments.
be grateful and in love with lifebeauty and depravitycitizen sciencecollective humanitycommunity engaged artscommunity resiliencecourage and nobilitycracks in, but not ofdecommissioning nuclear desk killersempathetic enquiryexit ramp alternativesfatalistic dopamine follow your tearsgood collapseguerilla dissenterscivilisation’s final burstinhospitable rabbit holesinterstitial insurrectionlover (not mother) earthmoral compartmentalizationmycelial modelsnew worlds unfoldingnurturing presencepermaculturepocket of survivorspower with, not over reality blindnessresilience through decentralisationsave versus savourstories of the worldtransitional townstrusting that which we cannot yet feelAnd much more.
My hope (see when spirit becomes one for more on hope) is that once combined and coordinated, these efforts will become unstoppable forces of change and renewal.
That’s a bit utopic but I’ve always believed that once combined these things are very powerful.
During the course one of our assignments was to respond to Nate Hagens’ presentation. I wrote this poem:
Friends who do not judge Colleagues who are present Kindred spirits who make me feel More-than-humans who help me healFriends who guide me through the unknown Colleagues who comfort me when I’m gone Kindred spirits who help me respond More-than-humans’ gift of myceliaFriends who help me sit Colleagues who help me prepareKindred spirits who bend not break More-than-human sustainabilitySo this gives you an idea of the kind of fun we are having with complex issues… but will all of this be enough?
Qui sait?
What I’ve learned in these first 3 weeks is incredible. So much useful information and helpful discourse with like-minded people. But in terms of what I retain in day-to-day life there are 3 words that guide me:
meditate (daily)collaborate (on relevant projects)trust (the things we cannot yet feel)More soon on the rest of the course. I’ll do another posting including links to my favorite articles and videos.
With deepest gratitude and respect to Nate Hagens for his presentation and use of his slide (also see Power vs Life: Towards Wide Boundary Sovereignty), to the wonderful stf 2025 team (Shuan, Nakasi and others) for their leadership and to my stf 2025 colleagues for our rich exchanges, generosity and - oh so precious - solidarity.
Photo: Beach at Hornby Island, British Columbia by Claude Schryer
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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What's starting to interest me is stories of resilience for a post-carbon world. What are we going to need for our emotional well-being? It's going to be a different world, not long from now. If we do this, and we must do this, this transition has to happen and there's going to be a sense of loss and sacrifice and challenge, not just with what's happening externally from a climate point of view, but in how we're going to have to make changes to our lives and reorient our energies in terms of our advocacy. I feel like there's an opportunity for artists - I'm more connected to the film and television sector and the documentary community - but throughout the system, to be able to provide realistic and yet reassuring narratives about what the upside of all this might be.
This bonus episode is dedicated to the memory of media producer, art and climate champion and cultural impact leader Tracey Friesen, who passed away on Monday, January 6, 2025 in Vancouver.
I offer my deepest condolences to Tracey’s family and her countless friends and colleagues.
I’m still on break from producing new episodes of conscient. I’m mostly meditating these days but also taking courses such as Surviving the Future.
I’m to think through how podcasts such as this one, can be most useful future forward. More on this later.
For now, while I’m on break, I thought it would be interesting to publishing a series of ENCORE or replay episodes drawn from previous seasons of conscient.
I actually got the idea my fellow podcaster Alice Irene Whittaker whose created a REPLAY series drawn from her Reseed podcast and it’s a good listen. I recommend any episode but in particular Episode 8 - Reflecting Climate Grief Through Music with Tamara Lindeman.
And I’m going to start on a sad note, but also one celebrating the life of Tracey Friesen. You’ll hear, once again, e85 tracey friesen – narratives of resilience for a post carbon world which I recorded in 2021.
For those of you who don’t know Tracey, let me provide context this way. I’ll read you an excerpt from a newsletterissued by the Story Money Impact organization in Vancouver that Tracey founded in 2019 and which is now run by Sue Biely. This excerpt will give you an idea of their appreciation of Tracey:
Tracey was a gifted community-builder and mentor – equal parts fearless, wise, and energetic – with an insatiable curiosity. Her forthrightness left no doubt about where she stood when it came to fighting for social and environmental justice. She was a visionary tactician who recognized a gap in Canada’s documentary sector, so she rolled up her sleeves and researched and published her 2016 book about impact producing,Story, Money, Impact: Funding Media for Social Change. Tracey’s book became the catalyst that set this organization into motion.Thank you Sue and the team at Story, Money, Impact for that.
I first met Tracey on September 21, 2021 at a event called Processing the federal election during a climate emergencyorganized by the Climate Emergency Unit. Stacey was impressive. Shortly after we collaborated on the mission circle of SCALE, the Sectoral Climate Arts Leadership for the Emergency network. We later became friends and often went for long walks in Ottawa or Vancouver to strategize about art and climate action but also the challenges of day-to-day life: supporting elders, being a parent, figuring out what to do…
Tracey was a compassionate listener and a very wise advisor.
I loved the way she understood and advocated for the power of storytelling, and I think her words will be important to us in the future.
I hope we can continue her good work amplifying the voices of artists. Here’s another excerpt:
We do need the scientists, and we do need all of the work being done across all of the important social issues that are happening right now. And we really do need the storytellers and to validate that their story driven, narrative driven, emotionally driven pieces of work will help to touch people now to change their behavior or will help to soothe or reassure or be with them in the world post transition.Let’s go back in time: 2021 with the COVID pandemic in full swing. Tracey and I are sitting, meditation style, in her living room in Vancouver.
Heads up that in this episode you’ll also hear excerpts from conscient podcast e26 klein – rallying through art and e54 garrett – empowering artists in between our conversation.
Finally, for your convenience, I’ve also added a complete transcript of the episode on the episode web site including links to the events and organizations that Tracey mentions during our exchange.
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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A bonus episode in between seasons 5 and 6, featuring my new year’s 'a calm presence' reflection on hope with writings and stories by Peter Schneider, John Crier (as told to Vanessa Andreotti), Richard Heinberg, Zia Gallina, Naomi Klein, Azul Carolina Duque, Jem Bendell, Robert R. Janes and Hildegard Westerkamp.
To read the original posting on Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com/p/when-spirit-becomes-one-5f5
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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Note: this is the audio version of my 'listen and co-create' posting on 'a calm presence'.
On September 23, 2024, while driving in Victoria BC to record a conversation with educator and musician Azul Carolina Duque for conscient season 6 (to be released in 2025), I was listening to Nate Hagens' The Great Simplification episode 139 : Bioregional Futures: Reconnecting to Place for Planetary Health with regenerative living activist Daniel Christian Wahl.
As I listened to the 36th minute of this engaging podcast, I felt a wave of relief ripple through my body, as if a burden had been lifted…
I stopped the car to listen to that 36th minute again :
It makes a difference how we go out and, bizarrely, if enough of us - all of humanity - reaches the point of maturity of caring more about life and less about individual lifespan or our species survival and we find our peace with maybe living the end day of a relatively young species, then I think exactly in that point, we will find the maturity to develop the patterns that will take us into not dying an early death as a species.‘That’s it’, I said out loud.
‘This is the horizon I have been looking for: ‘patterns that will take us into not dying an early death as a species’.
Which patterns?
I was also touched by the notion of dying with dignity (how we go out), which is on my mind and in my spirit lately.
Azul and I in Beacon Hill Park, Victoria, BC, September 23, 2024
Wahl’s notion of ‘finding peace as a relatively young species’ came up during my conversation with Azul who kindly shared the 3rd type of hope in an upcoming publication by the Gesturing Towards Decolonial Futures Collective of which she is a member:
The hope in composting harm represents the idea of acknowledging that we are past several critical tipping points, and that substantial consensus is unlikely to happen and that we will inevitably have to confront the consequences of our harmful actions and the harmful actions of those who came before us, too. So this hope says that new possibilities will emerge only after we have been taught by the partial or general collapse of our current systems, which is what this person, Daniel was saying in the interview. So it's about visualizing a process in which we are left with no other choice but to transform our relationships with the planet, with other species and with each other, to metabolize and repair the harm we have caused, and collectively learn to coexist differently through the awareness that we are part of a wider metabolism that is bio intelligent.Later that day I mentioned this insightful 36th minute in the Wahl interview during my conscient podcast conversation with composer Kenneth Newby (e207 kenneth newby - living with grace) who said:
The planet's not dying. Our place and our version of it may be dying. So how do we deal with that? How do we accept and live with the knowledge that our version of it is dying. It's not something to panic about in the sense that the whole thing's going away, hopefully. We don't know, but I think that notion of living with grace, living without fear, trying to live without anxiety, because those are just places where we flounder, shut off and develop toxic escapes. People will drink themselves and take whatever drugs they want to take to escape.My conversation with Kenneth reminded me of this quote from Adam Urban’s ‘10 Reasons Our Civilization Will Soon Collapse’ that I used in my first a calm presence posting, called why? : my rationale for creating 'a calm presence' newsletter. I go back to it often:
People have asked me, "If we're all doomed anyway, then what's the point of scaring people? Why not just let them live their lives?" It's a fair question. My answer is that the more people know about our predicament and start preparing for what's coming, the greater chance humanity has of surviving this century and creating sustainable societies in the distant future. I don't know if that's even possible. Perhaps we will pass so many climate tipping points that temperatures will rise high enough to snuff out life across the entire planet. Or perhaps after the population declines and the planet warms, new societies will spring up in places like Greenland and Antarctica. They won't be societies that use fossil fuels, so they will likely be much simpler and more connected to the Earth. Maybe these societies will learn from our mistakes and take better care of nature—and each other. If there's any chance that a future like that is possible, then we should do everything we can to make it happen. The first step is to inform people about what's happening, and the second step is to help them prepare.Why does any of this matter?
Reality.
why? https://acalmpresence.substack.com/p/why
My experiences on September 23rd reminded of advice dharma teacher Catherine Ingram offered me in July 2023 that inspired the creation of a calm presence:
Yes, there’s a point in going on. It is to be here for others who are not as strong or clear as you and who will be frightened and in need of a calm presence.But how does one achieve and maintain ‘a calm presence’?
I found some answers in this except from Yin Paradies’ September 25, 2024 Facebook posting drawn from the Intercultural Communication Handbook.
Sensing, attending and being patient requires slowing down, pausing, and taking time to listen, look, feel and learn. Seeking to activate and use all our senses to relate as part of the world. This involves learning through relationships, through actions and through careful attention, not just through asking questions and talking a lot. Being patient and humble enables recognition of the myriad of messages that humans and non-human beings are always sending out.Note: for more on Yin’s work see
e193 yin paradies - interweaving everything with everything else or on Yin’s YouTube channel.
I was struck by this sentence in particular :
Learning through relationships, through actions and through careful attention, not just through asking questions and talking a lot.There's a lot to consider in his words for a podcaster who spends a lot of time and effort talking and asking questions!
The timing of this is good because I'm taking a break now from both conscient podcast and a calm presence for a few months as I prepare season 6 - which I think is necessary - exploring arts and culture in times of crisis and collapse.
I’ll be doing that collaboratively and co-creatively with those who are interested in joining me.
To summarize, I feel privileged to have received a generous offering through the above quotes that I have presented to you today.
For me, all of this comes down to: listening and co-creating.
To listen and co-create.
I would like to thank those I have quoted and their kin.
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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flowing through
opening ever-new vistas through listening and conversation
I received an email from composer Hildegard Westerkamp, about ego, and set Hildi’s words to sound.
The time seems right for you to let everyone’s words flow through you - as if through a medium or force - back to all of us in ever new shapes. This creates shifts in everyone’s perception, ideas, attitudes, feelings and approaches towards the world the way it is now. I have always felt that this was precisely what I was doing with environmental sounds. I recorded them (like voices that speak). I listened to them and then let them flow through me (speak through my compositions, like your and everyone’s words speak through your conscient podcast) back to everyone. Our own inner shift simply enables for more shifting to happen. It’s not us (our ego) that is effective here in allowing the flow of transformation to happen. The ego is more like a blood clot blocking true shifting in the larger scheme/flow of things - i.e. it wants to be exclusive, can’t include the perceptions and shifting of others. It’s a deeper engagement - love, passion or whatever one might call it - that not only allows, but desires for energies to flow through - reach - the nooks and crannies of human perception. Like a river. We are like the water particles that collaborate for the river to find its way through the landscapes as they present themselves. Opening ever-new vistas.*
END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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Below is my reading of an executive summary of my ‘letter to the arts community about the ecological crisis - let’s put the climate emergency back onto our agendas’. I invite you to read the complete letter, when you get a chance, in English or in French, however this summary will give you the basics. I also invite you to submit comments on my Substack, on any of my social media (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Linked in) or directly to [email protected].
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Dear Canadian arts and cultural sector,
I hope these words find you well.
I’ve recently completed season 5 of my conscient podcast - balado conscient at La Montagnarde, an arts residency organized by l’ATSA : quand l’art passe à l'action, situated on the unceded territory of the Anishinaabe-Algonquin people (also known as St-Adolphe-d’Howard, Québec).
Let me get to the point.
Based on recent conscient podcast conversations, I have observed that the climate emergency (as well as the larger ecological crisis) have fallen off the collective agendas of the Canadian arts and culture sector.
The uncertainties we face are grim (see Disruptions on the Horizon).
I am advocating that these issues take their rightful place amongst our most urgent priorities and risk assessments.
In my complete letter, I invite you to read and listen to your arts and cultural peers who make a strong case for increased dialogue and rapid change, including:
Owais Lightwala and SGS’s (e194) Manifesto for NowRobin Sokoloski (e201) and the Living Climate-Impact Framework for the Arts (also e195)SCALE-LESAUT (e176) and Mapping the path to net zero for c\a\n\a\d\a’s Arts and Culture Sector” – what we found out – and what we need to do now!Canada Council for the Arts & Mass Culture’s Climate Mitigation Strategies for the Arts and the Climate Mitigation and Adaptation Strategies for the Arts reportIan Garrett (e182) and Sarah Fioravanti (é158) on CG Tools CanadaAlex Sarian’s The Audacity of RelevanceAnd much more (in the letter)…
We need to connect these critical initiatives by developing a ‘national arts and climate strategy’ as recommended by SCALE-LeSAUT so that the arts and cultural sector can play a much larger role in creative climate actions and solutions (both short and long term).
I think we can get there if we work together. My complete letter includes some practical suggestions and links.
In the meantime, the next season of conscient podcast - balado conscient will focus on ‘art and culture in times of crisis and collapse’ including an ‘artists survival kit’ (working title) : a set of practical tools and resources for artists to adapt and respond to the risks of ecological and societal collapse. This project will be informed by advisory circles. If you would like to participate, please contact me at [email protected].
Thanks for your consideration.
And if you agree with what I propose in this letter, I invite you to share it and talk about it with your peers.
I submit this letter with respect and in solidarity.
Claude Schryer
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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Welcome to the conscient podcast season 6 trailer
I’m Claude Schryer, the host and producer of both conscient podcast and its french equivalent balado conscient.
I’m speaking to you from unceded Algonquin-Anishinaabe land also known as Ottawa.
This trailer will give you an idea of what’s to come with this learning and unlearning journey of mine that I started in May 2020 still exploring art and the ecological crisis however a lot has changed since then. I wrote about in my a calm presence Substack : a conscient rethink
Here's an excerpt from that posting that will give you an idea of what season 6 is about. Thanks for listening.
I came up with a set of questions to guide my work future forward:
What needs to be said?Who needs to say it? Who wants to hear it?How does it help?In other words, what is the point of all this chatter?
I thought back to why I listen to podcasts in the first place and what keeps me listening?
I listen to podcasts because they help me:
break me out of isolationaccept collapsefeel solidarity and connection unlearngenerate spiritual and physical energy empathise through tone of voice nurture presence through hesitationlaugh and cryslow down and listen keep going in spite of the oddsSo, with all of this in mind, I’ve decided to go ahead and produce a 6th season of conscient.
fifteens15 minute ‘composed’ conversations with leading artists and cultural workers exploring the theme of ‘arts and culture in times of crisis, collapse, renewal’ with a focus on actions. A fifteen is a coffee break of insight.
roundtablesLong duration, informal banter with friends and colleagues about their passions, fears and dreams, inspired by the innovative ways of the 1980’s era CBC Radio’s overnight talk show Brave New Waves. Participants are invited to tell a good story and to expect to be interrupted and maybe teased once in a while. A roundtable is an engaging kitchen party.
a calm presenceThese bonus episodes are me narrating each a calm presence Substack posting including additional commentary and soundscape compositions. It’s intended for those who, like me, prefer listening over reading.
I will launch season 6 at spring equinox on Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 5.01am (EDT).
access
subscribe to conscient podcast or balado conscient (free) on your favorite podcast player : Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Podchaser, Tune in, YouTubesubscribe to a calm presence (free) on Substackfollow and comment on conscient social media : Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Threads and BlueSky visit conscient.ca to search and listen to any individual Episodes or read episode notes and transcriptsAs always, if you like something you hear or read, please share.
Feel free to reach me with questions and comments at [email protected]
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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My interest in science is quite poetic. The things that I find the most interesting about science are when it can be woven into a story that makes sense and I think that's kind of artistic in a way: you take the scientific knowledge and make it into a more abstract kind of poetic thing.
Note: I'll be back during the winter of 2025 with season 6 on the theme of 'art and culture in times of crisis and collapse'. Also, this episode was published on October 23, 2024 : our daughter Clara Schryer's 23rd birthday. Bonne fête chère Clara!
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(arctic soundscapes: Clara and Noa Caspi talking about drones + daily check in with Resolute + candle ice breaking + plane arriving)
This is the final episode of the fifth season of the conscient podcast.
(arctic soundscapes: Clara trying to imitate Claude’s style of simplesoundscapes recording while searching for candle ice)
This season began on February 21, 2024 with e154 featuring my son Riel’s research on ethics in science:
I don't think there's going to be any serious response to the climate crisis until real catastrophes start happening. That tends to be how it works. And once you start seeing that, then you'll start seeing very serious action being put in place. Although, we'll see at that point, if it's too late or not.(arctic soundscapes: Clara and Noa talking about recording technology)
This last episode features field recordings that Noa Caspi and Clara recorded during a 2-month field research project at the Cape Bounty Arctic Watershed Observatory on Melville Island in Nunavut during the summer of 2024.
You’ll hear Clara talk about some of her favorite sounds, including the unique vibrations of ‘candle ice’:
I get to the field in early June, and on the lake, there's two to 3 meters of ice and that only melts. Like, the lake is ice free for like, maybe a couple weeks max, sometimes not even at all, depending on the year and how much ice there was and the temperature and stuff. But this really thick ice as it melts, and I don't know exactly how, but it forms into these kinds of candles.(arctic soundscapes : Clara and Noa talking about candle ice + Clara walking around in moss)
In between soundscapes from the arctic, you’ll hear Clara talk about the rapid changes in the Arctic and some of the challenges of envisioning a new future and how art might help us imagine possibilities amidst uncertainty.
(arctic soundscapes : bird song, wind)
Northerners are facing a new world a lot faster than the rest of us are and I'm not sure what to say other than figuring out how to... What's the wording: creating the conditions for the new world… (for other… other possible worlds to emerge – Claude) Imagining what that new possible world could look like is tricky. (And that's what art does - Claude). That's what art does.(arctic soundscapes : Clara and Noa talking about recording in the field)
My conversation with Clara reminded me that scientific knowledge can be transformed into poetic narratives and that we benefit from both scientific and artistic creative work.
One might even speculate that they are more or less the same thing.
(arctic soundscapes : walking on the tundra)
And at any rate.
All of this requires a lot of listening.
*
Sections of the episode (generated by AI and reviewed by Claude Schryer)
Welcome
In this introductory chapter, Clara joins Claude marking the season finale. They discuss the unique perspective of younger generations on pressing issues and the intersection of art and science.A Scientist’s Journey
Clara shares her background, detailing her journey from Ottawa to studying earth system science at McGill. She highlights her passion for the outdoors and how her academic pursuits led her to a master’s program at Queens.The Young Person’s Dilemma
Reflecting on a pivotal conversation from Clara’s past, they discuss the challenges young people face when choosing careers that can address climate change. Clara reveals her evolving mindset about making a difference in the world.Eco-Anxiety and Climate Change
Clara talks about her feelings about eco-anxiety and the complexities of climate change. She emphasizes the importance of focusing on local solutions and the challenges of balancing personal and global concerns.Fieldwork in Nunavut
The conversation shifts to Clara’s fieldwork at the Cape Bounty Arctic Watershed Observatory in Nunavut. She explains the project’s focus on hydrology, soil, and greenhouse gas fluxes, contributing to a better understanding of the global carbon cycle.Journey to the Arctic
Clara describes the logistical challenges of reaching her field site, detailing the multiple flights and stops along the way. She shares insights about the isolation and unique experiences of conducting research in such a remote location.Soundscapes of Nunavut
Clara introduces her recordings from Nunavut, highlighting her experiences doing field recording. She shares her favorite sounds, including the unique ‘candle ice’ and the soothing ambiance of the tundra.Artistic Moments in the Arctic
The discussion turns to the artistic expressions Clara and her team engaged in during their time in Nunavut. From sketching to singing, they explore how creativity flourished amidst the challenges of fieldwork.Navigating Inuit Territory
Clara reflects on the complexities of conducting research in Inuit territory as a southern researcher. She discusses the importance of understanding the historical context and the need for meaningful community engagement.Imagining New Worlds
As they explore the theme of preparing for the end of the world, Clara shares her thoughts on the rapid changes in the Arctic and the challenges of envisioning a new future. They discuss the role of art in imagining possibilities amidst uncertainty.The Poetic Side of Science
Clara discusses the intersection of art and science, emphasizing how scientific knowledge can be transformed into poetic narratives. She reflects on the importance of creative thinking for scientists and the value of storytelling in conveying complex ideas.Hope Amidst Despair
The conversation shifts to the often bleak outlook on climate change. Claude highlights the potential for regeneration and adaptation in the face of environmental challenges.Candle Ice: A Metaphor for Change
Clara shares a poetic metaphor about ‘candle ice’ as a representation of climate cycles, illustrating how dramatic changes can be part of a natural process. This discussion leads to a deeper exploration of destruction and renewal in ecological systems.The Jaded Scientist
Clara talks about the challenges and joys of working in earth science, expressing feelings of futility in the face of the complexity of earth science research. She discusses the importance of transparency in scientific communication and the limitations of research methods.Shifting Focus: From Global to Local
Clara reflects on her evolving interests within the scientific field, expressing a desire to focus on local environmental issues rather than global ones. This shift highlights the interconnectedness of local and global processes in understanding climate change.*
END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
-
The planet's not dying. Our place and our version of it may be dying. So how do we deal with that? How do we accept and live with the knowledge that our version of it is dying. It's not something to panic about in the sense that the whole thing's going away, hopefully. We don't know, but I think that notion of living with grace, living without fear, trying to live without anxiety, because those are just places where we flounder, shut off and develop toxic escapes.
(photo of Kenneth Newby by Linda Ofshe)
I first met Kenneth Newby in 2023 at the infamous Lunch Lady Vietnamese street food restaurant on Commercial Drive in Vancouver.
We mostly talked about a book he recommended to me, Learning to Die : Wisdom in the Age of Climate Crisis by Robert Bringhurst & Jan Zwicky, which was transformative for me.
Kenneth is a fellow new music composer and sound artist with whom I shared many ecological concerns including aspirations for the role of art in this era of environmental decline.
So, I invited him to have a conversation, my second last of this 5th season, where we have been exploring how to 'prepare for the end of the world as we know it and creating the conditions for other possible worlds to emerge’.
Kenneth now lives in Victoria. We recorded our conversation in his backyard on September 23rd, 2024. We talked about his journey as a composer and musician, from childhood lessons, experiences in blues bands through to interactive music systems, Indonesian gamelan music and psychedelic experiences, among others.
During our exchange, I was thankful that he shared examples of some of his creative projects that integrate storytelling, ecological awareness, and collaborative solutions about societal and environmental issues. It’s good to hear about both theory and practice.
For example, I was interested in Kenneth's work on the harmonic series as a fractal structure and how he connects it to ecological concepts and ways of being.
My approach has been typically to look at the inner life of a sound, try and tease it out and create some kind of soundscape, a composition that's made out of those inner materials and so I was hugely influenced early on by Cage's notion of silence and sound and Schafer notion of the soundscape and an acoustic ecology.You’ll also hear some of Kenneth’s music in between 3 sections of our conversation.
First is Aria - Ocean of Storms, an excerpt from his ‘Seasonal Round’ project created in collaboration with poet Robert Anthony, which is composed of raw, time-stretched, transposed birdsong.
You’ll also hear Howe Sound, a composition featuring birdsong, a frog chorus and transformed excerpts from Maurice Ravel’s Sirènes movement of his Trois Nocturnes as well as excerpts from Crépuscule for Barbara written for harpist Barbara Imhoff.
Kenneth recommends the following books and film:
The spell of the sensuous : perception and language in the a more-than-human world by David AbramWoman in Nature : The Roaring Inside Her by Susan GriffinFantastic Fungi*
Sections of the episode (generated by AI and reviewed by Claude Schryer)
Introduction
Claude introduces Kenneth and reflects on their previous meeting. They discuss their shared backgrounds in music and philosophy, setting the stage for a deeper conversation about art and the ecological crisis.Kenneth’s Musical Journey
Kenneth shares his early experiences with music, starting with piano lessons and moving through various musical influences. He recounts pivotal moments in his life, including his time at the Creative Music Studio in Woodstock, which ignited his passion for electronic music.Cultural Exploration and Learning
Kenneth discusses his fascination with Indonesian music, particularly the gamelan traditions, and how immersing himself in different cultures has shaped his understanding of music and postmodernism. He emphasizes the importance of cultural relativism in appreciating diverse artistic practices.The Ecology of Sound
The conversation shifts to the relationship between music and ecological issues, exploring how sound can reflect and address the ecological crisis. Kenneth introduces the idea of the harmonic series as a fractal structure, connecting it to ecological concepts.Art and Environmental Awareness
Kenneth reflects on the impact of his music and the broader role of artists in raising environmental awareness. He discusses the challenges of making a significant impact through art while acknowledging the importance of collective efforts in the artistic community.Community Engagement in Art
The discussion turns to the importance of local community engagement in artistic practices. Kenneth shares insights from his projects that focus on situating art within the community, emphasizing the need for relevance and connection in contemporary art.Facing Complexity and Change
Kenneth addresses the complexities of the current ecological crisis and the fear associated with change. He discusses the role of psychedelic experiences in fostering a deeper connection to nature and how they can help individuals navigate the uncertainties of the future.Literary Inspirations and Recommendations
As the conversation nears its end, Kenneth shares his favorite books and films that explore ecological philosophy and the interconnectedness of life. He highlights the importance of literature in shaping our understanding of nature and our place within it.*
END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
-
I think if we can reimagine what matters to us and pursue that, then perhaps there's a chance that we can stop this truly self-destructive pursuit of infinite more, and in material terms, become happy with enough, without giving up the idea of personal growth and evolution, because I do think that is core to what it is to be human and even just alive. Life is about growth. The history of life on earth is one of ever more complexity and richness. And I think it would be like, I just don't agree with the argument that we have to stop growing. I think that's totally impossible and depressing. And I think that's often how economic arguments about degrowth versus growth get framed and understood is, well, we just have to sacrifice, and the good times are over, and now it's just less of everything for everybody. And I guess it's kind of depressing, but that's just reality. I don't think it needs to be depressing. In fact, I think it has to not be depressing for it to work. I think it has to be exciting. And the way that I can get excited about it is to think, wow, well, let's just tell better stories and let's focus on. Let's have some fun. Like, we can. Let's enjoy our lives and find ways to enjoy them that can be grown. And to me, art is just the best, most wonderful, inexhaustible resource in all of its forms.
Hi listeners,
This is the 3rd last episode of this 5th season of the conscient podcast. I have produced 54 regular episodes since February of this year plus 6 bonus episodes so that’s a lot of content to digest and I invite you to take your time.
It’s been a lot of fun and I thank all of my guests and their collaborators for their generosity. I’m going to take a break after the last episode, e208 with my daughter Clara Schryer. I’m going to take some time to breathe a bit and prepare for season 6 which will start in 2025 on the theme of ‘arts and culture in times of crisis and collapse’.
So, back to episode e206. Meet Arno Kopecky who is, I think, an upbeat realist. Like I did with e196 alice irene whittaker (part 2) - homing, a book review I will read the introduction to the episode at the top of my conversation, with Arno present, but before we jump in to our conversation, I wanted to share a quote from that episode to give you a preview of what’s coming:
If we look into the past, when I think of what art has done to deal with political problems, for example, or social problems, I think of civil rights and I think of people like Nina Simone, I think of Billie Holiday, I think of Toni Morrison and people and all the so many people like them who produced just incredible music and works of art that absolutely had a message but also sort of transcended that message or found a way. It's so hard to put into words for me how they did what they did. But I feel like there is a whole rich body of work that emanated and proceeded from the atrocity that was slavery and racism and a clear social justice tragedy. But you didn't hear the word social justice in any of Mina Simone's songs or Toni Morrison's books. You know, you heard stories, you heard an outpouring, you felt an emotion, and that moved and transported people, and that operates on such a deep societal level. I feel like it's almost, you know, I think art has a way of seeding social awareness and imagination, and that is almost a precursor or a prerequisite for social change. That then also requires political movements and politicians and civil society and all kinds of the realm of reason and logic and journalism and fact and argument.So, with no further ado, here is my conversation with Arno, recorded on the morning of September 11, 2024 in Vancouver.
Arno Kopecky’s 2014 book The Oil Man and the Sea: Navigating the Northern Gateway won the 2014 Edna Staebler Award.
Arno is a journalist and writer who lives just down the street from me here in east Vancouver so I invited him to talk, and to do a soundwalk with me about his most recent book, The Environmentalist’s Dilemma: Promise and Peril in an Age of Climate Crisis, published by ECW press.
I was also curious about Arno’s thoughts on art, the ecological crisis and the multiple dilemmas that we face as we work our way through the trappings and self destructive tendencies of modernity, while trying to retain, in a sustainable way, some of its benefits.
There are many great stories and tales in the book, such as the dilemma faced by people on a boat about to fall over Niagara Falls : should they ignore it, should they change directions or simply accept their fate and have a drink?
I recommend the book, in particular the audiobook version narrated by Marvin Kaye, who really brings this set of essays to life.
The Environmentalist’s Dilemma confirms that our planet is dying due to gross misbehaviour, however, Arno also observes that humanity, ironically, is doing better than ever. What's that about?
I enjoyed the book because it provided me with insights into a daily dilemma : how to live well and comfortably in this world while denouncing and rethinking it fundamentally.
I remember listening to the book while biking to Victoria BC and having to stop to catch my breath at a passage in chapter 6 called ‘let’s get drunk and celebrate the future’, where Kopecky suggests that we get drunk and give up, to which I screamed out loud : yes, yes,! I’m in! It was a cathartic moment for me because I sometimes feel like giving up hope and just getting drunk or high or…
It’s actually quite sane to say these things out loud. It allowed a reader like me to break through emotional barriers and find ways to get on with the work of reimagining life on earth, one step at a time.
I was happy to see that the book has been well received as witnessed by some of the positive reviews I read. For example, the Literary Review of Canada wrote that :
In the author’s hands, the book’s titular dilemma emerges in all its richness, ambiguity, and tension as a foundational opportunity and challenge for contemporary environmentalism.Well said. I agree. Kopecky questions some of our most ingrained assumptions and biases with journalistic rigour and may I say humour.
The Ormsby Review observed that :
The value of The Environmentalist’s Dilemma is this hope, that though we are in some ways stuck within a system that limits our options, we can make little acts of rebellion against the system. Our little actions may add to the little actions of millions of others, and may one day change the world.Now I have to admit that I’ve always believed that the accumulated impact of millions and even billions of small scale local actions can change the world. For example, in the final chapter 13 ‘Every Little Thing’, Kopecky writes about Czech writer and politician Vaclav Havel and how his words and grit helped to ignite a seemingly impossible revolution in Eastern Europe in the 1980s.
Can we do this again at a global scale?
How can we laugh at our predicament and still do the hard work ahead of us?
Fortunately, Arno is sitting right in front of me here in east Vancouver, on this morning of September 11th, 2024 and has kindly agreed to talk with me about all of this.
Arno’s recommendations were:
Res Rules by Chief Clarence Louie Tarun Nayar (modern biology)*
Episode Chapters (generated by AI and reviewed by Claude Schryer)
Introduction
Claude welcomes journalist and author Arno Kopecky, setting the stage for a discussion on his latest book, ‘The Environmentalist Dilemma.’ The conversation hints at the complex relationship between modernity and sustainability.The Environmentalist Dilemma
Kopecky explores the paradox of living well in a world facing environmental destruction, sharing personal reflections on the emotional struggles tied to ecological awareness. The chapter emphasizes the challenges of reconciling modern comforts with environmental concerns.Hope, Small Actions, and Personal Background
Kopecky discusses the importance of hope through small, individual actions and shares his journey from a middle-class upbringing to becoming an environmental journalist. He highlights pivotal moments that shaped his awareness of environmental issues.The Housing Crisis and Urban Development
The conversation shifts to the housing crisis in Vancouver, where Kopecky supports urban densification as a potential solution. He acknowledges the complexities of balancing development with environmental concerns.The Paradox of Progress and Environmental Crisis
Kopecky delves into the paradox of modern life, discussing how improvements in quality of life coincide with unprecedented environmental threats. He articulates the conflict between enjoying modern benefits and confronting ecological degradation.Reimagining Growth, Happiness, and Art
Kopecky challenges societal obsessions with growth, proposing a new understanding of happiness that values creativity and art. He explores the role of art in fostering resilience and community in times of crisis.Art and Social Change
Kopecky discusses the historical role of art in addressing social injustices, citing influential figures like Nina Simone and Toni Morrison. He argues that while art can seed social awareness, it must be complemented by political movements for real change.The Power of Individual Action and Navigating Modern Freedom
Kopecky reflects on the impact of individual actions through the story of Vaclav Havel’s shopkeeper, illustrating the potential for broader societal change. He also discusses the paradox of modern freedom and the need for a collective shift towards sustainability.Personal Transformation and Literature in Crisis
Kopecky shares a personal narrative about his father’s transformation into an environmental activist, highlighting the potential for change at any stage of life. He also references literature’s response to the ecological crisis, calling for more storytelling on these pressing issues.Imagining a Sustainable Future and Recommendations
Kopecky concludes with a hopeful vision for a future prioritizing relationships and community over consumption. He shares recommendations for further exploration, encouraging listeners to engage with diverse narratives that challenge conventional perspectives.
*
END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
-
In the face of destruction, we should create. In the face of hurt, we should heal. In the face of hate, we should love. That's my feeling and figuring out how to do that is everybody's job.
I’ve known Sheila James for 25 years as an arts funder colleague, artist, filmmaker, writer, but also her work as an equity expert, social activist and as a family friend.
Our conversation began with an overview of her views on equity and how it differs from equality. For example:
Equity is actually acknowledging that for some people who are disadvantaged, you need to do more. You can't just say, everything's fair. Everybody gets the same bowl of pudding.We also touched on equity in the arts such as the biases and systemic injustices that exist within cultural institutions. We also talked about the historical context of arts funding in Canada, notably missed opportunities for support of Indigenous and diverse cultural practices.
We also talked about Sheila’s multidisciplinary art practice, including her writing. I clearly recall reading The Arrangement, from her book of short stories, In the Wake of Loss, at the cottage and feeling a deep connection with her engaging stories as I walked in the forest.
I asked Sheila to talk about her new novel ‘Outcaste’, published by Goose Lane Editions, launched on May 7, 2024. It explores caste and class complexities in Hyderabad during India’s independence, highlighting a communist rebellion, caste dynamics, and land reform.
I was pleased that Sheila agreed to read two excerpts from this novel that bring to life the struggles and resilience of her characters. The first you’ll hear is set in 1948 in Korampally, India and is about the character Malika, a Muslim peasant imparting her hopes for her daughter amidst rebellion. It will be followed by an excerpt from Sheila’s You Will have Worth.
The second excerpt is set in 1997 in Toronto and is about Anya visiting her grandfather Irwin at the Queen Street Mental Health Centre. This section reflects upon familial bonds and emotional support in grief. It will be followed by an excerpt from Sheila’s Thru The Eyes.
As we spoke about her book and literature more generally, Sheila emphasized the importance of empathy when engaging with characters in the book. I like the way she encourages readers to find compassion even for the most detestable characters, as this can foster understanding and potential for redemption, for example :
I hope that if people are picking up the book, that they're very open minded and try to read the characters or listen to the characters where they're at. There are some horrendous sort of characters, or I should say, there are some people who do some horrendous things in this book.Our conversation concluded around the responsibilities of artists in today’s complex world, emphasizing the importance of listening, questioning, and dreaming.
I like Sheila’s thinking on this:
I love the idea of listening and really taking that time to listen, because I don't think we do that enough and that means listening not only to the things we want to hear, but the sides that we don't want to hear of.Sheila is currently reading for the second time:
The In-Between World of Vikram Lall by M.G. Vassanji
And reading for the first time: Salvage : Readings from the Wreck by Dionne Brand
*
END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
-
gliding towards a crash
reflections on this moment
Note: This bonus episode is from my ‘a calm presence’ substack about ‘short, practical essays about collapse acceptance, adaptation, response and art’. Cover photo was taken by me at Tribune Bay, Hornsby Island, BC on September 17, 2024.
Friends and colleagues often ask me why I focus my energies on ‘anticipating, observing, and experiencing societal disruption and collapse’ (deep adaptation forum).
A good question.
Instead of societal collapse, Arno Kopecky (author of The Environmentalist’s Dilemma: Promise and Peril in an Age of Climate Crisis and an upcoming guest on conscient e206), suggested to me in a September 14, 2024 email that I consider focusing on :
a thriving society lens so that we’re running toward something beautiful, rather than fleeing something terrible.A good point.
Arno also mentions that ‘ultimately it's the same thing’, e.g., that societal collapse and societal revitalisation follow essentially the same path, but I would agree that running towards something positive is more interesting (and useful than the negative).
Duly noted (as they say on the Canadaland podcast).
However, I have to admit that I quite often fall into collapse rabbit holes and sometimes can’t see the light so I call upon guests from previous episodes, such as e165 bill crandall - art can change us
Being an artist, or making art, in the context of climate is more about being a kind of light in the darkness, making us believe in ourselves and believe in the future so that we want to endeavor to save the thing that we have, our habitat. Some people like to say art can't change the world, but art can change us. Then we can change the world more effectively.So here’s my answer to the ‘focus’ question.
It’s a story about a story that I recorded in e202 coman poon - what are you doing with your life ? :
When I first met Vanessa (Andreotti) in 2019, I think she shared this story with me about, you know, the metaphor of the plane crashed as a way of talking about the time of the great turning, so to speak, for lack of a better term. And this idea is that there is no. There is no prevention of the crime, right? If you and I, and, you know, every living thing that is on, so called, the plane is on Pachamama, Mother Earth with us, we're going through a crash. We're going through, you know, six, extinction, we're going through climate collapse, geopolitical collapse, economic collapse, all types of overlapping, interlaced cycles of destruction. And like on planes, what you can do, at best, is to get ready for a glide as opposed to a hard landing, because that means some will survive, and those that survive aren't necessarily the lucky ones. So while we're on the plane, you know, instead of putting on our noise canceling earphones, pretending that we're not in a sardine can, we could try turning to each other, saying hello. So many things can happen between the moment when we know the plane is going to crash, that there's no getting away from that and the crash itself. So my invitation is to the listeners, what are you doing? What are you doing before the crash, in this time? What are you doing with your life? How are you going to actually weave connection? Because it's still possible to operate without hope. It's absolutely imperative.‘Saying hello’ is what I try to do with every ‘a calm presence’ posting and also the conscient podcast - balado conscient.
Saying hello in Coman’s way.
I don’t feel doomist, defeatist or nihilistic in saying that.
I don't feel like I’m being overly negative, proselytizing, virtue signalling or being self-righteous, though I have certainly done that in the past, and probably will again.
I produced an episode about this: e111 traps - what are the traps in your life?:
Observer: I see a trap called proselytizing which happens when people try to teach and convince others that a particular issue of interest should be the most important thing for everyone. Me: Wait a second, I do that all the time as a climate activist and with my art and ecology podcast and… Observer :(interrupting) of course you do and well you should - no worries - but, the danger is that your work could be perceived as an effort to assert ‘moral high ground’ and while this trap may be driven by a genuine passion for an issue, and you certainly are passionate about your work, it has the potential to impose onto others in a way that does not respect their own un/learning journey, and often actually has the opposite effect, pushing people away rather than inviting them in. Me: Ya, Ya, I see. Let me think about that.Observer: Sure and when this trap occurs, it can be useful to ask, for example, why do I need to teach or convince or inspire others about my learning experience? Where is this perceived need stemming from? And if you really feel you need to bring something to the attention of others, maybe you can ask yourself: What is the most pedagogically responsible and effective thing to do so that your message can land?But this is different.
It feels good to accept reality.
Not good, good because it’s actually awful and very painful, as we feel the disappearance of life unfold around us but for it’s better to accept reality than to live in denial.
It’s better to undergo a lens shift and therefore see and feel things as they really are.
It’s better to be ready to die at any moment knowing that the truth of that moment was our final breath.
Now none of this is new. Buddhism and similar spiritual practices have been teaching us this forever.
So what’s next?
I try keep this excerpt from Robert Janes’ Museums and Societal Collapse : The Museum as Lifeboat in mind:
Hopeless need not mean helpless. On the contrary, hopelessness is the springboard to helpfulness – supportive, effective, and useful.’In other words, how to be supportive, effective and useful while living on a plane that is gliding towards an inevitable crash.
My energy is not focused on fixing that gliding plane in mid-flight - tempting as that might be - but rather to focus on those who survive the crash so that they might have a fresh start.
And for those who follow the conscient podcast season 6 will beginning sometime in 2025 on ‘art and culture in times of crisis and collapse’:
Claude: Welcome to conscient podcast, Bob. Bob: Well, thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. Claude: Now this is the beginning of season six, so I'm quite excited. And it's also early days. Today is Monday, September 16th, 2024, and we're at your farm (on Denman Island) and we've just been walking around with your son. It’s actually not your farm, but your son's farm or both of you. Bob: It's a partnership. . Claude: So I'm not absolutely clear what season six is going to be in the end - t's early days- but I do know that I want to talk about art and culture in times of crisis and collapse and I see your book in front of me here called Museums and Societal Collapse : The museum as Lifeboat…I’m also working on an Artist Survival Kit.
I sometimes think it should be called ‘Artist Thriving Kit’ but I’m not there yet.
Thanks for listening.
*
END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
-
I'd like to use art more as a tool to get people thinking, get people involved, especially young people, and hopefully, help them process the emotions of climate change and move towards a space of action and hope. At least for me, as a young person, art felt like the way to have my voice be heard, and I hope to help other people experience that as well.
I first heard about Sophie Weider from an email she sent me on August 14th, 2024. With Sophie’s permission, here is an excerpt:
My name is Sophie and I am a recent graduate from the Sustainability, Science, and Society Interfaculty Program at McGill University as well as an artist working to foster climate hope and inspire action through my work. I recently discovered the conscient podcast and have been absolutely hooked on it. It has been the most heartwarming, uplifting, and inspiring experience for me. Your empathy and care shows in the thoughtful questions you ask in your interviews. Thank you for creating this wonderful resource for us all to learn from and enjoy! I have been working in the intersection of the climate and arts spaces for some time and found it to be incredibly validating to hear the stories of so many amazing people doing similar work in your podcast episodes.Now that’s very flattering and I appreciate the feedback. Sophie and I had coffee in Ottawa a few days later. We talked about the role of art in facilitating inclusive processes for envisioning a more just and sustainable future and Sophie mentioned some of the projects that she is involved with, including Zine for Hope a creative platform for youth to voice their perspectives on climate change and their hopes for a better future. And what is that better future? I ask myself everyday. It’s sometimes hard to imagine but Sophie believe in arts as a connector and I agree with her that :
Something that I really think is valuable about art is that it doesn't hold one objective reality to be true, and instead it allows for multiple subjective perspectives to coexist. Because while it's valuable to have science that tells us the answers, it's sometimes hard to know that this is the answer and not this one, especially when it comes to more subjective experiences, like, how should we relate to our living environment? There are various different perspectives from western science to indigenous knowledge that we can learn from and I think that art can help us see all those things together at once and figure out our own perspectives based on that.I invited Sophie to have a conversation with me as part of a series of with people in their 20’s, including e154 - the art of history and gaming with my son historian Riel Schryer (also my son), e200 maggie chang - the power of art with environmentalist, poet, writer, and artist maggie chang and the final episode of season 5, with earth systems scientist Clara Schryer (also my daughter). These four young people, and their peers, inspire and motivate me.
Sophie is also an artist who wrote and illustrated two children's books, ‘The Girl Who Saved a Tree’ (2018) and ‘Who?’ (2020) that explores environmental change and activism to inspire young people to become change-makers in their communities.
Sophie and I talked about who is an artist and what is art, which reminded me of my conversation with another Ottawa artist Barbara Cuerden in e167 barbara cuerden - tending the garden of art:
The garden doesn't have to be something that's instrumental. It can be just a place where you sit, where you're thinking of growing something, you know, where the sun shines and where photosynthesis takes place and everything is sort of manifested through the sunlight and the water. It's a fantastic thing on its own without actually having to produce a lot of stuff.Here’s an excerpt of what Sophie has to say about gardening as art :
Isn't everyone an artist? Don't we all imagine and create in some way or another? You know, even, like, I like to think about gardening as an art. This summer, through my work, I worked with a non for profit called EnviroCentre, and we did a lot of gardening, a lot of planting and weeding of green spaces around the city. And I really think it's an art. You know, it involves creatively deciding where the plants are going to go, and it involves, you know, working with your hands to make something beautiful. And it involves a lot of thought and reflection. And I think that's what art is all about.I was honoured that Sophie reached out to chat about our shared passion for art and ecology and was not surprised to hear that she was a top 25 environmentalists under 25 in 2021 of Starfish Canada, an organization that supports youth environmental change makers through storytelling and community.
Sophie recommends the following podcasts and music:
Heart Gallery podcast by Rebeka Ryvola de Kremersolacene podcastLocal Valley album by Jose Gonzalez*
END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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All artists have to be aware of climate because otherwise it's not art (and that's going to piss some people off - Claude Schryer). I think it will. Climate infuses all our responses to everything, to relationships, to our culture, to our history. You can't ignore the climate that it's happening in, and that's why it has to be somehow in the art that you are involved with.
Leslie Reid, an Ottawa based artist and educator, has been influenced by her family’s military background transitioning from political science to art. Her work explores sensory and emotional responses to environments, shaped significantly by a pivotal experience at a decommissioned lighthouse in Newfoundland. It’s a really good story.
This led her to themes of isolation and family tragedy, often incorporating historical and contemporary imagery to document changes in the northern environment.
During our conversation I read to her an excerpt from her artist statement that helped me understand her art practice:
The works, in painting and also print, photography and video, explore the physical and perceptual sensations of our experience of a site and the signs of lives lived there, working with liminal states of light and space. Through the ambiguities and uncertainties experienced in this visual field, I seek a thought-provoking and resonant emotional response to the act of seeing, and ultimately to being.We also discussed navigating cultural sensitivities. Leslie shared her reservations about working in the North and the importance of respecting Indigenous narratives. She also recounted her interactions with Inuit voices and the challenge of presenting their stories authentically without appropriation.
Leslie also had some advice for aspiring artists - given that she is a long time teacher of art at the University of Ottawa - to focus on their personal responses to culture rather than conforming to trends, highlighting the importance of internal reflection and the role of climate in shaping their artistic journey.
Overall, Reid stresses the importance of sensory experiences in motivating climate action and values feedback on her work. For example :
Because it's my senses that have taken me to the work, to the place, to those ghosts, and not wanting to commune with them, not wanting to bring them to the present, necessarily, just to let that lived presence be where it is. It is in our own sensations and until we have sensations within ourselves about climate and what it means, we can't do anything about it. We have to have something that triggers an internal desire to do better, to rescue, even on a very small scale…After we concluded our conversation Leslie mentioned ‘that all artists must acknowledge climate change in their work’ which I recorded as a coda and have used as the opening quote of this episode. I agree and hope it creates a debate about how climate context shapes all of our responses and relationships - climate in the largest sense of climate - therefore making it an essential element of meaningful art.
Leslie’s recommended readings include:
US Arctic Research Commission Daily Newsletter (free subscription)The Independent Barents Observer (free subscription)Our Ice is Vanishing (Sikuvut Nunguliqtuq) by Shelley WrightBurning Ice by Cape Farewell - Art and Climate ChangeThe Right to be Cold by Sheila Watt-CloutierThe Future of Ice by Gretel Ehrlich*
Sections of the episode (generated by AI and reviewed by Claude Schryer)
Introduction
In this opening chapter, Claude welcomes Leslie Reid to the podcast, setting the stage for an engaging conversation about her artistic journey and connection to the Ottawa community.
Leslie’s Artistic Journey
Leslie shares her background, detailing her transition from political science to art, and how her experiences in England shaped her artistic vision and connection to the landscapes that inspire her work.The Influence of Landscape
On her return to Canada she rediscovered Calumet Island, home of her maternal grandmother and site of years of summer long family camping on the shores of the Ottawa RIver while her father flew with photo squadrons in the North. This rediscovery led to her first large light and space works. Exploring the emotional depth of her art, Leslie discusses how these personal memories and landscapes intertwine, leading her to create works filled with historical and emotional resonance.
Environmental Themes in Art
Leslie reflects on the gradual infusion of environmental concerns into her artwork, driven by personal experiences and a growing awareness of climate change and its implications.Reconnecting with the North
Leslie recounts her journey to retrace her father’s flights in the Arctic, using art to document the environmental changes she observed and the stories tied to those landscapes.Art as a Medium for Awareness
In this chapter, Leslie discusses the role of art in raising awareness about climate change, emphasizing its contemplative nature and ability to evoke emotional responses rather than immediate action.Experiences with Indigenous Communities
Leslie shares her transformative experiences with Indigenous communities in the Arctic, highlighting the importance of storytelling and connection to the land in understanding climate issues.Voices of the Arctic
In this reflective chapter, Leslie discusses her efforts to capture contemporary Inuit voices and experiences, emphasizing their resilience and adaptation in the face of climate change.The Challenge of Hope
Leslie discusses the daunting reality of climate change and the limitations of art in conveying urgency. She reflects on the difficulty of adapting to a growing global population and the underlying desires that drive consumption and environmental impact.Cultural Resilience in the Face of Change
Exploring the adaptability of Indigenous communities, Leslie shares insights on how the Inuit culture responds to climate challenges. She emphasizes the importance of their lived experiences and the stories that need to be shared to highlight their resilience.Art as a Medium of Connection
Leslie articulates how art serves as a bridge to connect with the past and the ethereal, allowing individuals to engage with climate issues on a sensory level. She believes that genuine artistic expression can evoke internal desires to act on climate change.The Importance of Northern Perspectives
The conversation shifts to the significance of understanding the Arctic and its cultures, as Leslie reflects on her experiences in the North. She advocates for greater awareness and dialogue about the impact of climate change on these communities and their ways of life.Navigating Cultural Sensitivity
Leslie shares her reservations about working in the North and the importance of respecting Indigenous narratives. She recounts her interactions with Inuit voices and the need to present their stories authentically without appropriation.Advice for Aspiring Artists
Offering wisdom from her years of teaching, Leslie encourages young artists to focus on their personal responses to culture rather than conforming to trends. She highlights the importance of internal reflection and the role of climate in shaping their artistic journey.Finding Community in Art
Leslie discusses the challenges young artists face in feeling isolated and the necessity of finding community. She emphasizes the importance of connection and collaboration in fostering creativity and addressing pressing issues like climate change.Engaging with Current Literature
Leslie shares her reading habits, focusing on Arctic research and political commentary, and highlights the relevance of historical literature in understanding contemporary issues. She reflects on how these readings inform her artistic perspective and awareness of climate.The Role of Artists in Climate Awareness
In a poignant closing reflection, Leslie asserts that all artists must acknowledge climate change in their work. She argues that the climate context shapes our responses and relationships, making it an essential element of meaningful art.
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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES
Hey conscient listeners,
I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa).
It’s my way to give back.
In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.
Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads or BlueSky.
I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.
Claude Schryer
Latest update on March 26, 2025
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