Afleveringen
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In the 2nd part of our conversation with indie musician Timothy Palmer, we pick up where we left off in the previous episode of The DIY Artist Route Podcast (listen to past episodes and the podcast archive here)
Curiosity and questions are the driving force behind some of the best creations on earth.
What drives the curiosity engine?
Learn how can you strengthen your curiosity to engage with your own ingenuity and creativity to produce your best and most engaging work.
When Timothy Palmer isn't making great music he's leading people in a quest for truth and introspection. It turns out that many of the answers we seek externally are found inside us through looking at our experiences and the teachers who have imprinted their brilliance on us.
This conversation is an exploration of these elements so that you will take the proactive steps to become more curious about yourself, your relationships, your journey, and the work you produce.
One of the key elements that comes up in every conversation I have with Tim is the depth of questions we ask each other.
It's what Timothy says inside this conversation when he says,
"Especially in the United States, we can't get away from the questions of morality, ethics, politics, or religion. Because even if we are not interested in that, everyone else around us is."
Which is a fascinating truth. I don't consider myself to be one who spends much time in politics. Actually I avoid political discourse a lot because of the argumentative nature it has become.
As you know, I'm all about harmony, unity, and bringing people together. But Timothy makes some incredible points in this discussion that pertains to this subject because avoiding the discussions that people are having is not a way to bring harmony.
What do you think?
There are several places in this episode where we ask you to join into the discussion. You can do that through connecting with us both on social media. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Here's where to engage and follow Timothy Palmer:
Timothy Palmer on Twitter
Timothy Palmer on Facebook
Experience an in-depth discussion on the power of curiosity. We also dive into areas involving Fear, being known and the power of love.
And we close with a little chit chat on the power of tattoos. Both Tim and I have adorned our bodies with art that represents who we are and what we're all about. Which is another way I'd love to invite you to connect with us. Share your tattoo stories (and pics if you have them) in the comments below or through social media. Hit me up on Twitter, Facebook, and Linked In.
Share this episode to bring more people into the discussion. I look forward to talking more with you soon! -
You've heard his music, even if you think you haven't. Timothy Palmer has been Tryin‘ to help you us all navigate the journey of the creative entrepreneur and musician for years. His song (by that same name, Tryin') is the theme song to the DIY Artist Route Podcast, a brilliant track found on the critically acclaimed Half Boy EP.
On top of being a brilliant songwriter, he's also one of my closest friends. Every time we have a conversation, he shares so much incredible wisdom and philosophy that I wish I had been recording it to share with you.
This is the fulfillment of that dream for us to talk openly about our stories, and the pursuit you share with us in taking our creative work to new levels of success.
Tim is an avid reader, which you hear in his quotations of great writers, musicians and sages in this conversation. It's his uncanny ability to relate story with philosophy and real life perspective that make him such an incredible leader and speaker.
This is the first in a two-part episode where we dive deep into the philosophy of being human, in particular creative people who want to make a difference in the world. I know that's your mission and passion, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
In the interest of time, I've split our conversation up into two parts. This first portion serves as both an introduction to him and his work, as well as lay a solid foundation for the role that philosophy plays in how each of us see ourselves, our role in the world, and the work that we do individually and collectively. The collective part is where you join in too. And I invite you to join into the discussion we have here.
Connect with him to share your perspectives, stories, and ask questions:
Timothy Palmer on Twitter
Timothy Palmer on Facebook
Timothy Palmer on Instagram
As always, I invite you to join me in this conversation too. What thoughts and feelings do you have about what we discussed here? What curiosity thread are you unwinding as you listen to us talk?
Share your thoughts and feelings! I want to know what ideas you have, as well as any struggles you're working to overcome. If you're feeling stuck, or if these perspectives that we talk about has your mind racing, let's talk about it. I want to hear from you.
Set up a free 15 minute strategy session with me here. -
Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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In part 2 of my conversation with Rob Lawrence (host of Influential Creatives & podcast coach), we look at how to prep for an interview that will totally rock. In this episode you'll discover ways to ensure that your interviewer loves you after the interview is over. And you'll learn how to engage with the host/interviewer so that the audience follows you and becomes your fan too.
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One thing that everyone in the media industry pays attention to is how well an interview is done. Rob Lawrence, host of Inspirational Creatives, is one of the best there is at doing amazing interviews. That's why I invited him to join me on the DIY Artist Route Podcast to share his wisdom.
What we discovered in our conversation is that it's important for hosts who interview and guests being interviewed, can both gain clarity on how to have the most kickass interviews.
When the guest and host connect on a deeper level than just a basic Q&A, the audience gets the best experience. Everyone wins.
This is not something I'm seeing a lot of lately, in terms of discussing how to create amazing interviews. Which is why this podcast is a great resource for you because Rob gives some clear insights and very actionable suggestions to help you be a better interviewer or question-asker in any medium.
My Perspective On Great Interviews
My background is in public radio. I cut my teeth in learning the art of doing captivating interviews for KACU FM in Abilene, Tx way back in the early 2000s. My inspirations are folks who have made NPR a standout media platform for decades. I'm talking about radio icons like Scott Simon (one of my personal heroes), Steve Inskeep, David Dye, and Linda Wertheimer.
Those folks really know how to go deeper than the questions to get to the heart of their guests, and ultimately create heart-connections with their listeners.
It's something that comes from what Rob Lawrence calls "having a natural curiosity."
This podcast session ended up being something that led to a different kind of production for me: a two-part episode.
Closer Look At Part One
Here in the first part, we take a closer look at how podcasters, radio hosts, bloggers & writers, and other media personalities can create the bedrock for a truly engaging interview.
It's a How To Be A Great Interviewer 101 lesson, from one of the best podcast interviewers there is.
Rob has a gentle presence, a great voice, and enters discussions with both his mind and his heart. There's a noticeable kindness in his presentation, which makes him both intriguing, engaging, and easy to talk with.
These qualities make for a conversation that moves both the question-asker, and the answer-giver. Aka, the person hosting and the person being interviewed.
You'll notice that we switch roles a few times, another mark of a great interview. When an interview feels more like you're sitting in on an intriguing conversation, everyone wins. Because you feel like you're joining in a rousing chat that is more than just a "let me pick your brain about XYZ" kind of experience.
If you've watched any of Jerry Seinfeld's Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee, you see a very similar dynamic. Sure, there's a bit of comedy and humor involved, but essentially Seinfeld is asking a lot of questions to learn more about his friend. In the process, we all gain both an intellectual and entertaining experience.
What Makes For A Great Interview
When both the mind and the heart are engaged in what's going on, you find yourself challenged to think differently, and also feel something in the process.
What makes for powerful media, audio in particular, is the presentation of something that connects with the audience's emotions. That makes for great songwriting and musical performance, as well as any creative medium.
The mind and the heart. Nail the engagement with both of those vessels and you have the makings for a seriously kickass interview.
There's a whole lot of gold in this podcast episode, and there's even more in part 2 where we will talk about how to best prepare t... -
It's been about ten years coming that Tommy Darker and I sync our powers together to help you grow. Here's a guy totally committed to the art of success. Who has stayed in the fight for musicians and creatives to win in a complicated digital space for a long time.
Tommy has recently launched a platform called MusicPreneurHub. It's a fantastic outlet that provides educational resources, mentoring and artistic development for artists. Students there really take their music to the next levels. I'm honored to get to be a part of this platform too.
Tommy Darker Has A Specific Focus & So Does Our Conversation
The overall focus in this podcast is on overcoming challenges all of us creatives face. From fear of failure to lack of education. To blaming others and making excuses for not reaching goals to failure to learn the lessons from everyday teachers.
It’s a combination of practical and brilliant philosophy with specific ways of changing your mindset. If you, "change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.” That is a great quote by one of my favorite teachers Wayne Dyer from a book called The Power Of Intention.
Honesty and vulnerability create better ways for people to connect than anything else. We go to places philosophically that built a stronger connection between Tommy and I.
By learning from this example and from insights in our conversation, you’ll learn at least 3 new ways to connect better with other people and practice growth farming well.
I've discovered that most of the guests brought onto the podcast get into philosophy and psychology with me in our conversations. This is possibly the most philosophical conversation I’ve ever had with someone that’s recorded.
What You Learn In This Podcast Episode To Take Your Growth To New Heights
How to mix your roots musically with the things you’re passionate about.
Gain leverage to overcome obstacles and find solutions by picturing your life as a movie where you're both the writer, director and lead actor.
Learn how to create a unique value proposition for your individuality.
How to claim your freedom as an artist to connect more with yourself and with others.
Learn how to challenge yourself in the right ways to go beyond the goals you set.
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
A Few Powerful Quotes From This Episode
“I never publish things that I learn. I publish things that I do. It’s experiential knowledge.” -Tommy Darker
“Not giving yourself room for excuses is how you make it (your goals) happen.” -Tommy Darker
“If you start seeing your life as a movie, you start having fun. And the character, which is you, will learn something along the way because movies are always about character growth.” -Tommy Darker
“We all get to be scientists and play around with these different potions and chemicals and methods and tactics and strategies. My results might differ from yours. Actually they should because I’m living my story and you’re living your story. And that’s just the way that it’s supposed to be.” -D Grant Smith
What To Do When It's Your Turn
At the end of this podcast, I talk about how my tribe is passionate and will share his wisdom with at least 3 people.That's you. Your turn now.
Go spread the love you just received from Tommy and I with at least 3 people in your world who want this kind of wisdom, love and success in the work they do.
You can send an individual note or email with this link or you can click Share and spread the love on your social profiles.
Either way, Tommy and I appreciate you! Thanks!!!
Before You Go: Plant the right seeds to grow a stron... -
The latest episode of the DIY Artist Route Podcast is here! And it features none other than my good friend Angela Mastrogiacomo.
Aside from being one of the most inspiring and kick-ass people I know, Angela excels at the real heart of PR and marketing work: relationship building. That's why I had to have her on the podcast to share her insights with you.
As a music curator and media host, there are a lot of marketing and PR people who contact me every day, usually for the same reasons. They have an artist or band they want to promote. Maybe there's a new single their artist just released and they want media feature on my radio show. They want a review or feature of some kind.
This are some of the traditional ways that music promoters, publicists, and PR companies operate. Tragically though, many marketing and PR endeavors fail. Whether it's a company that charges and arm & a leg for their work or it's a do-it-from-scratch solo artist reaching out to media for feature, the key element in this puzzle is…….you guessed it, relationship building.
Which has become somewhat of a buzzword these days. When subjects as important as relationship building become buzzwords, it's easy to lose the meaning of the concept. Which is another big subject we dive into in this podcast.
One big thing that trips creative entrepreneurs like you and I up is our own negative mindsets. Wait, what does that have to do with marketing, or with relationship building? Everything my friend!
Our ego can be our worst enemy. For some artists, the ego says that who they can't connect with a music influencer with their story or music. So they try to parrot the work that other bigger artists do to promote themselves. It's not genuine, therefore it doesn't connect in the best ways that a sincere approach to relationship does.
Other artists struggle with a more arrogant form of ego, one that tells them they should be treated like royalty. So talk yourself up like you're a god, and have the media eating out of your hand. And if they don't respond to you this way, screw 'em!
That's the ego talking.
When you work on marketing yourself, building genuine one-to-one relationships takes you further than anything. It's what's made Angela so successful with her work on Muddy Paw PR and Infectious Magazine. She's written tons of articles for Sonicbids and other music-centered publications, all covering the subjects of marketing, PR, and relationship building.
We all deal with ego. Ego affects our mindsets, creates fears and insecurities, and if not dealt with can cause struggles that aren't overcome. One weapon against the work of the ego is vulnerability. Sounds strange right? How can vulnerability be the antidote to ego? Angela and I discuss this at length in the podcast.
I'm being fairly overt here. Listen to the podcast. Download it. Share it. Then connect with both of us and share your story with us.
Here are some ways to connect with Angela. She wants to hear from you so reach out to her and tell her you heard her on the DIY Artist Route.
Muddy Paw PR
Infectious Magazine
Facebook
Twitter
She gave her email at the end of the podcast, but in case you missed it you can contact her via [email protected]
Fears and mindsets are struggles for everyone. Honestly, dealing with personal fears and negative mindsets has been a very big part of my year in 2017, which is why you haven't seen me post as many blogs or pieces. -
Is it strange or interesting to find another drummer on the podcast?
We're just multifaceted artists, not just musicians with sticks who like to hit things, ha!
I was intrigued by Roberto Hernandez from the first message he sent me. Perhaps that's because he chose one of the most unique ways to introduce himself.
Instead of the same generic "Hi this is me and let me give you my bio and a zillion links so you'll pay attention to me" intro message, he did something different.
He took a page out of the DIY Musician's Radio Handbook and reached out in a personal way.
How Roberto Hernandez Proved His Uncommon-ness
Roberto made a video specifically for me. He talked about listening to The DIY Artist Route Podcast and what he enjoyed from it. Then he mentioned his book, The Unstarving Musician's Guide To Getting Paid Gigs.
Then he asked what it would take to jump on the podcast.
I was interested from the beginning. That's how it works. That's not just how it works with me, it's how it works with most music curators and media hosts. It's how it works with people.
That's the story behind how I heard about Roberto Hernandez and why I brought him on the podcast. It's why I read his book. It's how we became friends.
What Being Specific & Relationship Oriented Gets You
Since this podcast episode was recorded, I've connected him with many folks in my network including past podcast guests because I believe in him and what he's doing. He has a great message to spread to musicians to get one BIG piece of the puzzle figured out: how to get gigs that pay you.
If you're tired of doing free shows for "exposure" or struggle with the How-To of gigging, Roberto is your man. I highly recommend his book for not just musicians and bands, but also anyone who is trying to get paid gigs including speakers. His method works.
This podcast is about more than just gigging. It's a closer look at effective strategies for that oh-so-difficult introduction to people you don't know.
When I said that friends can ask for gold but strangers can't even get candy, this is what I'm talking about. Part of the difficulty in getting people of influence's attention is the perspective we lack when we make that introduction.
Appealing To The Basic Human Nature
Who's the #1 person you're the most interested in, or the person you want others to know most?
It's human to say it's you.
Even the most empathetic people in the world have self-interest. That's not a bad thing. It's an honest thing.
Yet most of the time, we greet a new person that we want to connect with by talking exclusively about ourselves instead of appealing to the person we want to talk with. That little bit of extra time, even if it's 30 minutes, goes a long way. It appeals to the primary interest of that person.
It's also a way to show you're not just reaching out to get a handout and a back scratch.
Back scratches are the "hook me up with a review or an interview or a feature on your platform" ask.
I'm not in the back scratching business, and neither are any music curator, media host, or booking agent worth their salt.
Take Your Relationship Building & Submission Outreach To The Next Level
How can you go from being a stranger to being connected? Listen to this podcast episode (player at top of post) and be enlightened. Add Roberto's book & podcast to that mix, as well as my new Ebook that covers the introduction for music ... -
"I'm just a music super fan who likes to dress up in silly clothes and dance."
That's not only a great line from my good buddy, fellow musician coach, platform leader and hero, it's who he is. It's who Carlos Castillo is that makes him a dynamic leader in the music space.
There are a LOT of "experts" in our communities of musicians. Many people who come in with big claims and big promises all trying to get your attention and your dollars.
Sadly a lot of these folks are all talk. Not only do many not really know the stuff they talk about, they also don't always have your best interests at heart. Fortunately for us, there are uncommon people like Carlos.
If this is your first introduction to Captain Schwilly (as several musicians and creative entrepreneurs know him as), then I hope you'll do yourself a favor and follow his leadership not just in growing your community of fans but also in giving back to the community with your service.
Giving is the hallmark of success. Read any book by a credible source of success like Seth Godin, Tony Robbins, Amanda Palmer, Oprah Winfrey, and the like and you'll see a pattern of giving among those who have reached the levels of notoriety and prominence that we all dream of.
That's the heart of Carlos Castillo too. I share that with him, as do all of the past guests on the DIY Artist Route Podcast. Double check what I just said. It's the truth.
You know what makes a super fan? It's someone who is genuine in what they say and do. Actually, people who become super fans fall in love with the person and the experience they have with them more than just the music or art or work itself. Anyone can make art. A good musician makes good music. But a great person? Those are harder to find.
It's this line of thinking and operating that Carlos specializes in from experience. It's also what he advocates for in his courses and his online communities like the Schwilly Family Musicians. I'm a member. Are you? If not, join up here.
By participating in the lives of the people you want to connect with, you become the leader that inspires and transforms. You gain not just an audience member. You gain someone whose passions align with your own. Their support transforms your career because it hits on a level that's beyond just art. It's personal.
Every guest I have on the DIY Artist Route Podcast teaches me something in our conversation. They've taught me a lot leading up to the podcast chat. One big thing Carlos continues to teach is that online relationships are very real. Music is just a starting point. Keep that in mind as you cultivate the connections with your audience, your marketing endeavors to media, your network, and your communities of fellow musicians.
I encourage you to follow Carlos via his online FB group and his Schwilly Family Musicians on Twitter. They're both great resources for you to grow on a regular basis. His email list is pretty badass too.
And if you haven't signed up for my email list, jump in with me by signing up in the right hand column. I share things with my Growth Farming tribe that no one else is privy to. It's all about building real, powerful and supportive relationships so all of us grow together. -
I believe that helping other people in life is the key to being successful. It's a philosophy shared by Zig Ziglar, Oprah Winfrey, Steve Palfreyman, and the incredible Bree Noble.
Bree is the creator and powerhouse behind Women of Substance Radio, Female Entrepreneur Musician Podcast, a musician and coach for musicians. She's an inspirational person and a wonderful ally in the quest to help creative entrepreneurs grow.
The DIY Artist Route Podcast continues to showcase remarkable and uncommon people who are making a massive difference in the creative industries. Bree Noble is certainly in the top ranks of world-changers.
Bree Noble On The DIY Artist Route Podcast
There are several reasons I wanted her on The DIY Artist Route Podcast. First, I've been following her work for years, going back to when I was running a radio station and seeing her name pop up as an influencer in the music industry. I also first heard her music then and appreciated her sound.
In a culture that places an expectation on most female artists to have to conform to some sort of objectivity in order to be noticed, Bree joins the fight to combat this messed up ideal. Her work with both her radio station, her podcast, and her coaching helps both women and men combat unhealthy and negative stereotypes that are pervasive in the creative industries, music in particular.
What's noticeable about Bree Noble from the moment you see her is the love in her smile and facial expressions. My good friend Bird Thomas has that superpower, and so does Amanda Palmer (illustrated in her book The Art Of Asking). To communicate love through your eyes and your smile is something that truly remarkable people who live life as love do. It's inspiring and it makes a huge difference in the lives of people.
You can tell right away in our conversation that helping people through love is Bree Noble's mission. If it wasn't music, it'd be something else where she's helping people by loving them. That's inspiring. Let's follow that example!
Overcoming Obstacles For Creative Entrepreneurs
There are several things that hinder growth and success for artists, musicians, and creatives. Guess what? They're the same hindrances that investment bankers, world leaders, Olympic athletes and everyone else in the world face: negative mindsets. Doubt is a big challenge we all face as human beings. How do we overcome doubt? We proactively change our mindsets. Bree and I discuss this practice in the podcast.
“Do the thing that scares you the most.” -Bree Noble
How To Create The Change You Want In Your Career
One other big point Bree makes in our conversation, and one I want to highlight here due to my work on The DIY Musician's Radio Handbook and the Indie Radio Promotion Course is that information doesn't create change. Actions do. We live in a historical era of bountiful information available in nanoseconds. Similar to the fact that there's more music produced in a year than we can consume, the same is true for information.
The amount of books, podcasts, online courses, and seminars that teach us how to do everything (25 different ways to do anything) could lead us in circles chasing the next "How To" method. Instead of spending your time learning everything, do the thing you learn.
Choose your teacher, and choose people whose values align with yours. You're reading this blog, -
If you want to talk to someone who has proven time and again how to build a strong audience base, you talk to Rick Barker. The man behind Music Industry Blueprint and the former manager of Taylor Swift is not stranger to building a passionate following. He's also ready and willing to dish out tons of great advice to artists willing to do the work.
That's the one kicker he shared with me in this podcast conversation that makes the biggest difference: having the work ethic to get stuff done.
Putting The Advice Of Rick Barker To Work
There is a lot (A LOT) of information being produced every nanosecond on "How To Do XYZ" for your music career. Creative entrepreneurs of every kind have more resources and guides to grow than any point in history. However, what makes the real difference between those who do and those who dream is simply the act of doing.
“The difference between a great artist and a super star is work ethic.”
Being someone who has committed my life to helping artists and business people grow personally through mindset training and build audience through Growth Farming coaching, Rick was a treasure to connect with. His insights and methods fit perfectly within the scope of what is shared here on the blog and other episodes of the DIY Artist Route Podcast.
Discussing The Benefits Of Radio With Music Promotion
It's also interesting to follow our conversation as it gets into the realm of radio. Rick Barker spent years in the radio industry, but on a different side of the curtain than I have. His experience comes from the commercial side, which I've long been critical of.
As we discuss the benefits of radio, you'll notice a slight disagreement in our individual feelings on the role radio plays, as well as the benefits of radio airplay alone to grow your music. Here's the thing, it's important for us to talk with people who have a differing viewpoint than we do. In doing so it sharpens our perspective while also discovering new things.
I won't shy away from heralding the benefits of public and indie radio in the growth of your audience base. Where that piece of the chat may seem like a dissenting viewpoint, it brought us closer together in discussing the real meat and potatoes of radio airplay: relationship building.
However, as Rick states, radio alone isn't going to skyrocket your music career. You need more than that, which includes audience engagement and great customer service. You are a business as a musician. His tips on specific actions to take to make that happen are spot on.
“You get radio airplay and exposure anywhere you possibly can. It’s what you do with that (airplay & exposure) afterwards that’s important.”
We also agree that far too many artists try to promote their music to radio before they're actually ready. You need to have 3 key things before radio is going to work for your career. I highlight those 3 specifics in the Get Radio Ready ebook (free). Grab it.
Get more on Rick Barker and his incredible work on Music Industry Blueprint.
If you gained anything from this podcast episode, let me know in the comments below, share this post and leave a tip. Thanks! -
Greg Wilnau has been on my radar for a long time. He's a fantastic human being and someone who intentionally wants to help people. It's clear in the way that he engages with you in conversation, and illustrates the power of valuing others as a key to growth.
Greg is a fellow drummer and host of the Musician Monster Podcast. He also is a coach for musicians in helping to build a strong career with gigging and growth. Get more on him at his website here.
Mindset is a big part of our conversation. Personal responsibility is a giant piece of how mindsets work. It's up to you as a musician, creative entrepreneur, and builder to reach the levels of success you dream of.
It's not anyone else's responsibility. Realizing that and owning it will help you take leaps and bounds towards achieving the goals you have.
New Territory Covered In This Podcast Episode
I'm going to Just come out and say something up front that is a big part of my conversation with Greg. We dive into mindset changes that delve into personal responsibility and focus that have been instrumental in my own personal success, as well as his. We also talk about religion and faith.
I haven't gone down this road with anyone on the DIY Artist Route Podcast before regarding religion or faith. Honestly, I used to be a very religious person. I used to go to church 2 or 3 times a week and stay for 3 or 4 hours at a time.
In my religious days, I had a different set of priorities and my concept of belief meant something completely different than it does now.Though I may not be as religious as I used to be, the focus on love as the highest value and greatest objective in life is VERY real to me. Greg and I both share this perspective on life.
It's not my intention nor does it come out in our conversation to say or imply anything that is condescending towards religion or faith. Still the subject is something that we talk about early on. Our concepts of God and faith does impact how we interact with each other regardless of your belief system.
How Your Experiences Pair With Others For Growth
We also talk about the power of empowerment. Greg Wilnau illustrates how talking with people who are going through the sames things that you are empowers you to keep going (22:15). This is especially true for musicians who are in the early stages of your career, trying to figure out your next steps. It's essential to community building as well.
Other key quotes and subjects presented in our talk include:
[On where the shift happened to go from dead end to growth]
“The biggest thing I struggled with that I didn’t know I struggled with was I would start projects strong and things would fizzle out. That was happening because I would constantly blame other people for my problems instead of taking ownership of them and figuring out how to fix them.” -Greg Wilnau
[Dealing with the human condition to model what we see]
“There are tons and tons of information being passed around, and there’s all these ways we’re told of what we need to do to succeed. But we actually model more of the things we see than what we’re told we need to do.
"We see people blaming others for their problems, and regardless of whether we know it’s not optimal, we often pattern that based on what we see, instead of what we know is best until we choose to change.” -D Grant Smith
[On what success actually is]
“The way people used to do things was they would build it…even launching music. You would write this album, create this masterpiece,hide up in your studio and then launch it. Then fame and glory would come to you.
"Today that’s not the best way to do it. Making sure that what you’re doing with impact others before you actually do it, or doing your best to involve other people in w... -
Music Business Keys To Success with Rodney Holder
When it comes to business success, the entrepreneur path is essential. Most musicians are recognizing that more and more as time goes by. One of the premier places where musicians have experienced insights into how to take their careers to new levels was the Music Launch Summit, created by my good friend Steve Palfreyman last year. There, over 50 of the world's biggest names in the business came together to help musicians grow. Rodney Holder was a standout in that series.
I was both an attendee and a masterclass speaker. Being in that summit with many of my good friends and colleagues including Carlos Castillo, Wendy Parr, Yann Ilunga, Benji Rogers, and Cari Cole, it was incredible to experience the insights of so many really incredible people.
After watching Rodney's session, I knew I had to talk with him. Not only is he a fellow drummer and Australian (I love the Aussie's!!!), but his methodology of relationship building, learning from experience (which includes embracing failure) and the power of mentorship are hallmarks of what make for uncommon people.
A Little Insights Into Rodney Holder
Rodney is certainly uncommon. You can sense that in every response to my questions in our conversation. He's also someone who has taken the process of growth and used each experience to bring a new piece of insight to share. That's really a remarkable element to the science of growth.
He's a podcast host of Music Business Facts, the top music podcast in Australia. He's also a metal drummer in Alchemist Tripsis (so he's got serious skills behind the kit) and seasoned musician. He also teaches Music Business Studies at Taffe University in Australia.
What I Learned From Rodney In This Podcast
I'll be honest, one of the best things about hosting the DIY Artist Route Podcast is getting to learn first hand from some amazing people. I know a lot about how to build relationships and a good bit about radio. But I don't know everything about either of those subjects. And there's a TON of stuff in the industry I don't know. That's why having conversations and asking good questions are important (if you want help with asking the right questions, reach out to me and we can talk).
Sometimes we learn things by how they're phrased. For us creative entrepreneurs, the business side of what we do involves positioning our creations as products. Did you know that every aspect of your creation is a product that you're offering to your audience? It's like Rodney tells us
“You are a product, your songs, your shows, your work are all products.”
Kinda different way to think about things, huh? You are a product, not just what you make. That's a game changer, and it's just the tip of the iceberg.
3 Keys To Music Success
One of the big questions, that was kind of a trick (oops, you caught me) was when I asked Rodney if there was just 1 thing you could do to become successful today. In my experience, there's not magic button that if you master it, all your cards will always be winners.
No poker hand works like that. Life doesn't either.
On the flip side, there are a few ingredients that typically produce great results the more you do them. Three of those are hard work, continually putting yourself out there (marketing, outreach, gaining experiences), and luck.
Wait, -
Every musician wants to get more gigs, book better venues and be able to perform regularly. Performing for some artists is one of the main methods for profiting from the business of being a musician.
However, getting gigs is getting harder and harder. Fortunately for all of us, there's Dave Ruch.
Dave Ruch Is Great At Getting Paid Gets
Dave is a seasoned musician with a history of performing and creating new opportunities to perform.
One thing that sets him a part from most musicians, is the types of gigs he gets. Instead of competing with every cover band in the coffee shop/bar-type venue, he's found a truly uncommon method of getting PAID gigs.
Yeah, you read that right.
One of the best places for musicians to get in front of a captivated (and paying) audience is to go to places that thrive on educational opportunities.
Schools and libraries are two of the best places where both education and supportive audiences await you.
If only you know how to book at their locations.
How To Book Gigs That Give You More Time With Friends & Family
That's the specialty of Dave Ruch's blog, a thorough resource for musicians of all walks to find ways to perform in places that keep you active in the daytime so that you can spend time with your family or friends in the evening.
How many of you have families (spouse and kids or grand kids) that you don't see as much because you're always on the road or playing late night gigs?
Dave's method of performing allows him to work during the daytime and be home in the evenings/nights with his wife and kids.
Even if you're in your 20s or 30s and haven't settled down with a family, the rewarding nature of being a part of children and youth's future by providing an educational and entertaining presentation during their school day is a great opportunity.
Helping others is the mark of truly influential and powerful people. In these ways, Dave shows us how to get better at helping others through booking a different kind of gig.
Make The Most Of Your Opportunities
Dave says, "Most public libraries have missions of entertain and educate audiences." This is a natural fit for a musician to make new connections.
As a musician and creative entrepreneur, your main job is to build relationships with people and give them something powerful to experience.
This method of booking a different kind of venue opens up new ways for you to grow. It gives another avenue to take the method of The DIY Musician's Radio Handbook and apply them to a new group of people to create success opportunities for you.
In a way similar to the past several DIY Artist Route guests (like Jeremy Young, Chandler Coyle, & Andrew Apanov) education in this music space is much more than a classroom experience. We all learn from each other.
Sometimes we have opportunities to take our art into new places to positively change the lives of others. In Dave's method, you can get paid to do that too.
Quotes To Key In On
"What happens in the present is more important than being known in the end." -Dave Ruch
“We’re all looking for hard, fast wins in the digital world. But few people are taking the time to build real relationships. When we miss building the relationship, we miss the chance to get real gold out of the exchange.” -D Grant Smith -
Dave Ruch joins the DIY Artist Route to discuss his unique method of getting gigs as a musician: booking through schools, libraries and venues off the beaten path.
Dave is an excellent storyteller, and excels at educating both students and musicians on the art of doing work that makes a difference. Through his music, and his uncommon method of performance, he's able to balance time with his craft and his family. He shares his insights and wisdom from the road here. -
Education for musicians and creative entrepreneurs is at an all-time high. There are multiple courses, books, seminars, trainings, workshops, blogs and everything in between for all of us to become the finest, brightest, and best at our creative endeavors.
Jeremy Young is one such educator. A musician, blogger, and education specialist with Soundfly, Jeremy has spent the past several years blending his experience with music with knowledge and expertise. The results are a powerful combination of expertise and know-how that he shares with us here.
Insights Into Jeremy Young
Jeremy is a student and musician. He's taken his experience in the realm of musicianship to discover different methods of growth for not only his music career but also his entrepreneurial path. One of those methods is creating different music related companies. This little nugget of insight was really cool to talk about.
There's a mention of Palover Press in our chat. It's a company he created to pair audiobooks and authors with musicians. There's a market for this kind of collaborative connection between 2 different types of creators. It's a path no one has carved yet, and one that he's still exploring. I'm diving into this too, in a little bit of a different way. Grab my audiobook on Noisetrade to see more of what I'm talking about.
On the surface, it may seem like a wild pairing, authors and musicians in one product line. If it seems like a stretch, that's the results of great education. Great teachers, mentors, and coaches know how to stretch their students to a place where they do more and become more than the common student. Or to put it this way,
“Growth happens by stretching and being challenged. When you stick to just what’s manageable, you’re really exchanging opportunity for frustration instead of exchanging opportunity for opportunity.”
Aside from performing with his band Sontag Shogun, Jeremy teaches courses on guitar and business at Soundfly. He also has a few music related businesses. He loves helping musicians grow by way of the Soundfly blog, Flypaper. Go there to get some fantastic articles.
The Pairing Of Values Creates Bigger Wins
When was the last time you saw your core values as a connection point with other people? This is a big subject that has a lot to do with who you attract to your audience tribe, and who you connect with on a collaboration/networking presence.
Values are the beliefs and ideals that drive what you do. For some, it's authenticity in their creative expression (meaning they're going to be themselves instead of adopting a 2nd personality when in "music mode"). For others it's relationship growth. Values drive what we pursue and how we pursue growth. It's like Jeremy says,
“Interpersonal relationships are always more important than the project itself.”
Our values help to define how we connect with people. Too often, musicians look at their creative process and the end result as something independent of other people. The best results for your work will come from how you pair yourself with strong relationships, and shared values among other people. This is a common theme in The DIY Musician's Radio Handbook.
How To Create Opportunities For Collaboration
I first met Jeremy Young through the avenues of curiosity. As I said in the podcast, I read a blog he did for Sonicbids where he talked about the 5 best books every musician needed to read. I had just published The DIY Musician's Radio Handbook -
Mark Steiner is the co-founder of GigSalad, an online marketplace for musicians, entertainers, speakers and event planners. He joins us on the DIY Artist Route to talk about his success in entrepreneurial business and music. He also shares insights into what it means to win in business despite not living in a major metropolitan city. And how emotional intelligence has been the key to his company's ongoing success.
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In the 16 years I've worked with for profit and nonprofit businesses, particularly in radio, media, and the entertainment industry. There are a few key things that make for thriving organizations.
I knew from the first conversation I had with Mark Steiner at GigSalad that he had cracked the code too. In this podcast episode we both share our perspectives on what makes growth work for entrepreneurs, small businesses, artists & musicians. We find common ground and a lot of perspective that helps to put the art of Growth Farming to work.
Mark Steiner On The DIY Artist Route Podcast
Part of what put me on Mark's radar is the platform he created and owns that is a marketplace for both musicians, entertainers, and speakers to land better gigs. Every musician I talk with struggles to figure out how to get booked at better venues and how to make their tour schedules work. GigSalad is one method that musicians, artists, entertainers, and motivational speakers can use to land more gigs. Building your reputation in the process is also what drives growth and success here.
I wanted to talk with Mark Steiner because of GigSalad but also because he's an entrepreneur who has illustrated very specific key points to the Growth Farming method. One particular point he's lived out is illustrated about 35 minutes into the podcast where we discuss the difference between being selfish and loving yourself:
“If you truly love yourself in the purest sense of the word, that you’re patient with yourself, you’re kind, not rude, you have compassion and love. Then the absolute natural, the absolute natural manifestation of that is love that you give to others. It just oozes out of you. So if you have people who are not expressing love then they’re not loving themselves.”
Throughout our conversation you hear a man who has come to terms with life itself, battled his own sense of identity and made some amazing discoveries in the process. We also talk about the idea of the Heart Garden, which is core to Growth Farming as a means of success.
Inside each and every one of us is a garden. The fruits that come forth out of our lives (our words, actions and attitudes) come from what we plant inside of us. Mark's success in his business as an artist and entrepreneur illustrate his growth in building the right kind of garden.
One of the past DIY Artist Route Podcast guests, Steve Palfreyman, shares a similar ethos. There's a lot here that pertains to emotional intelligence, which is a key point to success for any entrepreneur, business, or organization. It's very much what Mark says here:
“I know my strengths and what I’m good at and I follow what comes natural to me, which is emotional intelligence. I’m comfortable there. I can talk about my feelings and other people’s feelings and relationships. I think those are the driving forces to any successful business.”
There's a lot of joy that is gleaned from this podcast experience. There's also a lot of wisdom. What does it take for you to really build success over time, cultivate strong relationships with people to open new doors, and see real fruits come forth? Adopt the method and advice that Mark Steiner illustrates in this conversation.
More On GigSalad & Growth Opportunities
On a side note, I've been using GigSalad as a way to get my name out for more opportunities and the system is well setup. Their support team is a group of fantastic people who are easy to work with and will help you along the way. I really believe in this marketplace, and I'm not being paid to say that.
You can get more info on Mark and get signed up for free to use GigSalad here.
Putting it all together for your artistry is also illustrated in both -
When I read someone with a massive influence talking about some of the same things I do, I take note. Michael Zipursky wrote a recent blog piece about how to get published in industry publications to boost your exposure. He's been featured in big media platforms like Huffington Post, Fox News, American Express' Open Forum and more. Turns out his methods are incredibly similar to what you've heard me talk about here.
Learning From People In Different Industries
Yet we work in 2 completely different fields. Michael works with consultants in business. I work primarily with musicians and entrepreneurs in the creative industries. His methods for getting big media companies and the people behind the publications to take notice are very similar to what is detailed in The DIY Musician's Radio Handbook. Did I know Michael's methods when I wrote my book? Nope. However, like attracts like.
A few of the past DIY Artist Route podcast guests have come from non-music related industries. There have been a few people on social media who balked at learning non-musicians about music growth. Here's the thing: growth principles are bigger than any industry. Don't choose to close your mind off to people in a different field or industry because it seems to not apply. That's a dangerous place to live.
Instead, have a teachable mindset. Teachable folks can learn from anyone. If you want to know how to do something someone else is doing, or you want to connect with them, it's not hard. After reading his blog article, I reached out to him and made a connection. The result of that connection is this podcast conversation.
Michael Zipursky Secrets To Media Exposure
How do you get someone to pay attention to you? You start by paying attention to them. It's what Dale Carnegie talks about in How To Win Friends And Influence People. Remember this quote from Carnegie: "You gain more friends in two months showing interest in other people than you can in 2 years trying to get other people interested in you." That matters when contacting media to get their attention.
The majority of emails sent to media are Spam. Same is true in business when people are trying to get the attention of others. It doesn't work.
“It’s all about the relationships. When you can establish a relationship with an author or editor, you’re going to get a lot more focus from them than if you send a Spam message.”
In the podcast, Michael lays out 5 specific steps to take to get yourself and your work in front of big media publications. The method is the same for getting in front of radio. The step-by-step process is detailed in 9 videos, a comprehensive training workshop, and coursebook in the Indie Radio Promotion course.
As a coach to coaches, I pay close attention to what Michael talks about on Consulting Success. His platform is about how to be a better leader, how to guide leaders to create more wins, and how to keep growth happening on a regular basis.
His success is in leading people of all walks of life to achieve more using systems and structures. The most successful people in the world have coaches and mentors who work with them to make magic happen in their lives and professions. No one gets to the top on their own.
“One of the big keys to success for every successful person I know and every successful person out there is having a coach. Music artists, athletes, actors and so forth all have a success coach. They identify who is out there and who can they learn from to get that help... -
I've been a fan of Michael for several years. His email and blogs are fantastic resources for creators and coaches to find ways of growing our platforms. One recent blog of his talked about 3 key tactics he's used to get media coverage with publications like Huffington Post. His methods and my methods are nearly identical, meaning they work. I reached out to him to talk about how musicians and creative entrepreneurs can get press and media coverage. He shares his insights and much more in this podcast episode.
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Kevin Kelly is a man with a rich background in writing and science. His wisdom and thoughtfulness is pervasive in not only his writings but also his lectures.
He's someone with an eye and ear to the future, looking at both trends and technology paired with the human psyche to see what futures await us. The artistic side of this approach to vision casting is brilliant. It's also intriguing.
How I came to understand and embrace Kevin's theories on growth goes back a few years to when I was starting my first endeavor in the creative entrepreneurial realm.
The Birth Of The SuperFan Idea
Back in 2008, while starting the initial syndication build for The Appetizer Radio Show, I first met an artist who would become a good friend. William Fitzsimmons had transitioned from one career as a therapist into becoming a full-time musician. He wasn't famous, but he did have a really strong core audience that propelled his growth.
Years later, I'd connect with several other artists who'd share with me how they'd built their growth strategy around reaching 1000 true fans. It was a theory created by Kevin Kelly in an article he wrote that was published a few decades ago. Intrigued, I looked it up and found it contained the exact formula I was using to build my platform.
Fast-forward to this past summer. My good friend (and fellow DIY Artist Router) Chandler Coyle told me of an opportunity to speak with Kevin. Kevin has a new book out called The Inevitable, and was looking at some artistic, entrepreneurial and marketing related podcasts to get on to promote the book. I put my name in the hat and was privileged to get to connect with him.
The result of that connection is this podcast episode. It's been several months in the making, but it's brilliant on a variety of levels. The are several things I loved about talking with Kevin Kelly, especially how down-to-earth and open he is. It was like talking with an old friend.
He's also incredibly objective, which is refreshing for someone who has done so much in their careers.
A Brief Bio On Kevin Kelly
Kevin Kelly is most known for being a writer, author, and co-founder of Wired Magazine. He's also got a rich history in science, photography and digital marketing. He's the founder of The WELL, a virtual community created with Stewart Brand.
He's written for publications like The Economist, Esquire, GQ, and the New York Times. His lectures cover subjects ranging from marketing and economic growth to scientific and technological innovation.
His writings and books include New Rules for the New Economy: 10 Radical Strategies for a Connected World (Penguin, 1999) and"Forward: 1000 True Fans," pp. 3–8, in Be The Media, David Mathison, editor, (2009), which is where the concept of the SuperFan was born.
More insights into Kelly available on his website.
Notable Quotes From This Podcast Conversation With Kevin Kelly
"The best way to do research on the Internet is to say something and people will tell you that you’re wrong. Numbers aren’t as critical as just doing it."
"The Internet was inevitable but the kind of Internet we have (wasn't). (There's a) shift to Internet of experiences away from an Internet of knowledge. Much more emotional and experiential overlay will take place."
"Marketing (The Inevitable) on Twitter was something we did well. Tweeting once a day with a quote from the book was very successful." - Laat meer zien
