![Why You Canât Stop Thinking About Your Abuserâand When That Changes [326]](https://is5-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Podcasts123/v4/14/41/f8/1441f83c-c6b3-6301-1734-9264e9289911/mza_7189452647885039884.jpg/250x250bb.jpg)
Afleveringen
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In this episode of The Flying Free Podcast, weâre talking about a book that forever changed my understanding of evilâM. Scott Peck's People of the Lie.
This isn't about cartoon villains or obvious monsters. I'm talking about the kind of evil that sits in church pews, leads Bible studies, and goes home to emotionally destroy their families while maintaining a pristine public image.
Have you ever felt crazy for questioning someone's "godly" behavior when it leaves you feeling diminished and confused? You're not alone, and you're not imagining things. In this episode, I break down the subtle patterns of evil that hide behind masks of righteousness, especially in Christian contexts.
In this powerful episode, you'll discover:
⢠Why the most dangerous form of evil isn't loud or obvious, but subtle, polite, and often dressed in religious language and "concern" for your spiritual wellbeing
⢠How to recognize scapegoatingâthe psychological process where someone transfers their shame onto you, making you carry the emotional burden for the entire relationship
⢠The chilling reality of how evil people use virtue and spiritual leadership as masks to hide their true nature, and why religious communities often protect the abuser rather than the abused
⢠Practical ways to trust your own perceptions again after years of having your reality denied and twisted
If you've ever been told you're overreacting, too sensitive, or not spiritual enough when trying to address harmful behavior, this episode will validate your experience and give you the language to understand what you've been through.
The journey toward freedom begins with recognizing the lies for what they are. Join me as we unpack this transformative book and discover how naming evil is the first step toward reclaiming your life and your truth.
Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Related Resources:
Grab your copy of M. Scott Peck's People of the LieWant to check out some other books I recommend? I have a whole laundry list. -
Strap in, ladies. This episode is basically law school meets your best girlfriend telling you how to survive divorce court with a toxic ex who thinks the law is optional and reality is negotiable. Iâm joined by Arizona attorney Wendy Hernandez (aka courtroom gladiator and truth-spewer), who unpacks what you really need to know when facing custody battles, financial warfare, and the endless parade of legal shenanigans from an abusive ex.
This episode was originally a private workshop inside the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, and now it's yours, too. You're welcome. (And also, if you want more, jump in with us!)
Key Takeaways:
How to get out when you're financially trappedWhat temporary orders are and how they can help you immediatelyWhy documentation beats opinions in court, and how to gather it smartlySecrets to dealing with exes who refuse to work or disclose incomeHow to present strong evidence without being overwhelmedLegal options for supervised visitation and protecting your childrenModifying custody when major life changes occurProtecting kids from subtle forms of abuse within court limitationsHow to handle mediators and avoid coerced agreementsSanctioning your ex for using the legal system abusivelyThe emotional encouragement you need when you feel too overwhelmed to fight backRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Related Resources:
Wendyâs YouTube channel: Command the CourtroomHer âBest Interests of the Childâ checklistThe âIs Love Resilienceâ worksheet (traits that resilient women develop to rebuild their lives)The âKnow Your Rights â Protect. Prepare. Empower. Escapeâ worksheetOur Dayâs co-parenting calendar appAimee Says, an AI app to help you craft response, document abuse, prepare for court, and more Flying Free Podcast Episode 220 with Wendy: Dealing with Fear During DivorceHaving tried over 1,000 cases during her twenty-seven years as a litigator, Wendy is a courtroom warrior who has tackled every type of family law matter â from divorce to child custody and everything in between. Sharing secrets learned from the countryâs top law professors at the University of Notre Dame Law School and during her battles on the family law front lines, Wendy is passionate about helping not only her clients, but also those representing themselves, to feel competent, confident and comfortable in the courtroom.
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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So many of you come to me and say things like, "Natalie, I was such a doormat. I just stood there and let it all happen."
Listen up, beautiful butterfly: You didnât âjust stand there.â You were resisting the entire time, and no one told you thatâs what it was. Until now.
In this episode, I shine a flashlight on the small but powerful acts of resistance Christian women pull off daily in emotionally and spiritually abusive marriages. Weâre talking journal-hiding, secret-crying, sanity-preserving, Jesus-whispering defiance that deserves a standing ovationâbut probably got met with church lady side-eye instead.Hereâs what youâll learn:
What resistance really looks like Why keeping your mouth shut can be a power moveHow even the tiniest choiceâlike skipping his coffeeâcan be the first domino to freedomWhy the culture you were raised in trained you to erase your own braveryâand how weâre done with that nowRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Related Resources:
This podcast script is inspired by Allan Wadeâs article, âSmall Acts of Living: Everyday Resistance to Violence and Other Forms of Oppression.â Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may enjoy: âShould a Christian Wife Submit to an Abusive Husband?â and âAn Emotional Recovery Tool That Changes Everything.â -
Ever feel like youâre losing your mind but everyone around you says youâre just too sensitive? Welcome to the club you never asked to join. In this episode, I sit down with Erin, a long-time member of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, who opens up about her raw and redemptive journey out of emotional and spiritual abuse.
From marrying a man who knew his way around a Bible and a manipulation tactic (convenient, right?) to raising six kids in eight years while being told she was a âterrible housekeeper,â Erin did what so many Christian women are taught to doâsacrifice, submit, and smile. But eventually, she realized something crucial. God wasnât calling her to be a martyr in her own marriage.
In this episode, youâll hear:
The subtle and not-so-subtle red flags Erin missed (like that âI wanted to kiss your sisterâ comment⌠um, what?)How spiritual gaslighting and weaponized Scripture kept her stuckThe pivotal moment she knew she had to get outWhat helped her make her escapeHow the Flying Free Kaleidoscope and a few fierce new friendships helped her healWe talk about the awkwardness of being told youâre abandoning your family when all youâre trying to do is not literally abandon your sanity. Erinâs story is heartbreaking but also full of hope.
So grab your tissues, maybe a pint of Ben and Jerryâs, and hit play. Youâll walk away feeling seen, heard, and a little more brave.
Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Do you like listening to survivor stories? We have more! Listen to Marieâs story, Laurieâs story, and Stacieâs story.
Related Resources: -
Hey there, beautiful butterfly! It's Natalie here, and boy do I have an episode for you today that's going to make you feel SEEN in a way that might just take your breath away.
Have you ever found yourself at 3 AM, deep in a Google rabbit hole, trying to make sense of your husband's behavior like you're some kind of undercover FBI agent? Well, I'm here to tell you that this obsession isn't a sign you're losing itâit's actually the FIRST step toward your freedom.
In this episode, I'm breaking down the five stages of recovery from emotional abuse that I've witnessed time and again in my work with thousands of women:
Discover why your brain's detective mode is actually a necessary part of healing (and why you should stop beating yourself up for "still thinking about him")Learn about the powerful moment when your focus shifts from figuring HIM out to reclaiming YOUâand why this is where the real magic happensUnderstand how your healing journey transforms you from a survivor desperately searching for answers to the wise mentor you never had (but always deserved)Find out why setting boundaries isn't just about protecting yourselfâit's about rediscovering joy and learning to trust yourself againRemember, healing isn't linear, and every stage serves a purpose. Whether you're analyzing text messages at midnight or helping other women find their wings, you're exactly where you need to be. Grab your coffee (or wineâzero judgment here!), get comfortable, and let me walk you through how this messy, beautiful recovery process really happens.
You are becoming who you were always meant to be. And I promise you, butterflyâyou are NOT alone.
Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Related Resources:
Liked this episode? Here are some other episodes and an article that you may find helpful as well: Episode 306, âLessons Iâm Learning in Physical Therapy About How We Heal.â Episode 277, âWhat the Healing Journey Looks Like.â An article, â7 Steps to Identifying and Healing from an Emotionally Abusive âChristianâ Marriage.â -
Today weâre tackling a topic that's kept too many women trapped in painful marriages: divorce. If you've ever been told "God hates divorce" or made to feel like leaving your abusive husband is somehow worse than what he's doing to you, this episode is specifically for you.
Weâll dig into some fascinating research by Dr. Valerie Hobbs on how conservative Christian sermons frame divorce - and let me tell you, what's being preached often doesn't match reality.
Here's what you'll discover in this episode:
The surprising biblical truth about divorce, including the fact that God Himself got a divorce (Jeremiah 3:8) and what this means for women in harmful marriagesHow common Bible verses about divorce are routinely misinterpreted and weaponized against women seeking safety and freedomThe shocking difference between why women initiate divorce (abuse, infidelity, and substance abuse) versus men's reasons (falling out of love, different lifestyles)How the ancient marriage certificate (ketubah) actually protected women's rights and gave them grounds for divorce - completely changing how we should understand Jesus' teachingsThis isn't just theological debate - this is about real women making heart-wrenching decisions every day. I've walked this path myself, and I know the spiritual anguish of believing God wants you to stay in a destructive marriage.
If you're questioning what you've been taught about divorce, experiencing emotional or spiritual abuse, or supporting someone who is, please listen to this episode. You'll discover that God cares about your emotional and spiritual safety and wellbeing, and that leaving an abusive marriage just might be the most faithful thing you can do.
Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:
Dr. Valerie Hobbs' groundbreaking study that I used for this episode, "The Discourse of Divorce in Conservative Christian Sermons."Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may be interested in: âGod Doesnât Hate ALL Divorce,â âHow Do I Know if Divorce Is the Right Choice for Me?â and âHow To Tell Your Kids Youâre Getting Divorced.â -
Coming June 2025: The Divorced Christian Woman Podcast!
This is our last Flying Higher moment as we are gearing up to begin production of our new podcast! Find out what we'll be talking about in our first season!
(Don't worry, the Flying Free podcast will continue to serve up hope and healing for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships right here every Tuesday afternoon!) -
On todayâs episode, Iâm talking with Dr. Andrew Baumanâlicensed mental health counselor, author, and founder of the Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health and Trauma. Weâre digging into his powerful new book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities, and whewâŚthis oneâs going to name things youâve felt for years but maybe never had words for.
This episode is a raw, no-fluff look at whatâs really happening behind the stained-glass windows:
82% of women say sexism shaped their church experienceâand 35% report sexual harassment. Let that sink in.How twisted theology has been used to minimize abuse, silence women, and turn forgiveness into a weaponReal, doable steps churches can take to stop being breeding grounds for harm and start becoming actually safeWhy men in leadership must do their own deep healing before they can lead anyone elseThe holy importance of listening to your gut, your body, and your sacred knowing when something just feels offIf you've ever been told to âjust forgive and move on,â felt erased in your own spiritual community, or wondered why abusers get protected while survivors get blamedâthis conversation will wrap you in validation and truth.
Dr. Bauman speaks as someone whoâs been on both sides of this story. And his message? Youâre not crazy. Youâre not alone. And the God you love is nothing like the systems that harmed you.
Read Dr. Baumanâs newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities.Connect with Dr. Bauman on Facebook.Check out Dr. Baumanâs blog. Like what you heard today? Listen to Episode 41 and Episode 164 of the Flying Free Podcast with Dr. Andrew Bauman, and then head over to Episode 45 and Episode 279 to hear my interviews with his wife, Christy Bauman.
Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Related Resources:Guest Bio:
Founder and director of the Christian Counseling Center: For Sexual Health & Trauma. Dr. Bauman is a therapist & author of 7 books including his newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism & Abuse in Christian Communities.
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In this episode, youâll hear what it really means to heal from emotional and spiritual traumaâand why that work is more about daily practice than one-time events. From ego detangling to setting boundaries, this episode is packed with perspective shifts and tiny âahaâ moments that might just change how you show up in your healing journey.
Resources mentioned:
How to Do the Work by Dr. Nicole LePera
Flying Higher -
Is your husbandâs addiction tearing your marriageâand your heartâapart?
In todayâs powerful episode, I unpack the often-overlooked reality of addiction-fueled abuse. Weâll talk about how addictionsâfrom porn and gambling to drugs and spendingâimpact the brain, hijack relationships, and leave women spiritually and emotionally devastated.
If youâve ever tried harder, prayed longer, or changed yourself to fix whatâs broken in your marriage, this episode is a healing balm and a wake-up call. I want to remind us that addiction is the problemânot youâand offer biblical, practical wisdom for reclaiming your power, peace, and dignity.
Key Takeaways:
Addiction â love problem. You canât love, pray, or submit your husband out of his addiction. Change only happens when he chooses it.Addiction changes the brain. It affects dopamine systems, impulse control, and emotional regulation, making empathy and honesty difficult.You are not crazy. Gaslighting, mood swings, and financial chaos are symptoms of a deeper issueânot proof you're âtoo sensitive.âGod does not call you to endure abuse. You are permitted to set boundaries, seek legal protection, and pursue peaceâeven if that means separation or divorce.Healing begins when you turn inward. Like one brave woman in the Kaleidoscope said, "Help me get free from the constant pain"âand everything changed.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Some Flying Free Podcast episodes you might be interested in: âCan My Alcoholic Husband Change?â and âAm I the Problem in My Marriage?â
Related Resources: -
This week, I'm excited to share something transformative I just learned from the book "Coming Alive" by Barry Michels and Phil Stutz. Have you ever felt so completely demoralized that you couldn't see a way forward? That crushing feeling when you believe nothing will ever get better? I've been there too.
In this episode, I'll talk about a powerful tool from this book that can gently pull you out of those darkest emotional spaces and reconnect you to hope, resilience, and even joy. Through the story of Ann, a woman devastated by another failed relationship, we explore how we often chase external solutions (like the perfect partner) to fix our internal emptiness, only to find ourselves more disappointed when they don't deliver the salvation we crave.
Here's what you'll learn from this episode:
⢠How to identify when you're caught in the trap of "false hope" and why external achievements, relationships, or possessions never fill the void we think they will
⢠The simple 5-step Mother Tool practice that can lift you out of demoralization and reconnect you to your inner strength, even when everything feels hopeless
⢠Real examples of how this tool has helped people transform their creative blocks, unhealthy relationship patterns, and even approach chronic pain with renewed resilience
When we're at our lowest, what we need isn't logic or problem-solving â we need love. That's exactly what the Mother Tool helps us access: an unconditional, nurturing presence inside ourselves that sees our worth regardless of our circumstances.
This practice isn't about fixing your external situation; it's about shifting your emotional state so you can show up to life with clarity and strength. Because when you reconnect to that loving presence within, you discover the resilience to keep going â not because things are perfect, but because you're loved.
Join me for this heart-opening episode where I walk you through exactly how to use this tool in your own life. And if you're craving more connection and growth, remember that my Flying Higher mentorship program offers weekly classes, coaching, and a beautiful community of almost 300 women supporting each other's journeys. You can learn more at joinflyinghigher.com.
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Ever been told youâre too sensitive? That you just need to forgive more? Or that if you were a better Christian wife, everything would magically get better?
Yeah. Me too. And Dr. Ramani Durvasulaâs book Itâs Not You is here to throw a holy wrench into that narrative.
In this weekâs episode of the Flying Free Podcast, Iâm unpacking the powerful truths in this book and showing you exactly how it validates the lived reality of women in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships.
What narcissistic abuse actually looks like (hint: itâs not always loud or obvious)The spectrum of narcissism and how it shows up in faith communitiesHow to stop blaming yourself and start protecting your peacePractical strategies to regain your emotional footing (no seminary degree required)
Weâre talking:This episode is part validation, part education, and 100% youâre-not-crazy encouragement. If you've ever felt spiritually duped or emotionally wrung out in a relationship that was supposed to be âbiblical,â I promiseâthis one will hit home in the best way.
Hit play, breathe deep, and remember: You are not the problem. You never were.
Read Dr. Ramaniâs book for yourself, Itâs Not You.Check out some related, past Flying Free episodes: âWhat is Gaslighting in a Toxic Narcissistic Relationshipâ and âUsing Art to Heal from Narcissistic Abuse.â
Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
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What if the thing keeping you stuck⌠is your death grip on trying to hold it all together?
In this short and fiery episode, Natalie calls out the spiritual hustle weâve been soldâand gently offers a better way. If youâve been clinging to control, overthinking your faith, or quietly drowning under âgood Christian womanâ expectations, this oneâs for you.You donât need to strive harder.
You need to breathe, unclench your jaw, and finally release whatâs not yours to carry.Press play and feel the shift.
Go deeper with me in Flying Higher!
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Welcome back, butterflies! In this episode, Iâm joined once again by my friend and fellow coach, Diana Swillinger. Weâre diving into the second part of an important topic today: Can we gaslight ourselves?
Gaslighting is usually something done to usâmanipulation that makes us question our reality. But what happens when we internalize it? When we start running the script on autopilot and doubting ourselves before anyone else even gets a chance? Buckle up, because our Kaleidoscope members had some thoughts on this, and weâre breaking it all down.
Key Takeaways:
Idealizing Others â When we believe that if we just act a certain way, that person will finally approve of us? Thatâs a trap.Believing the Unbelievable â Sometimes, weâre so conditioned to believe our abuser isnât lying that we ignore all the red flags. Itâs like trying to finish a puzzle when someone keeps hiding the pieces. Maddening, right?Giving Away Our Credibility â We assume the other person must be right and know better than us. Newsflash: Thatâs not always true.Agreeing Against Our Gut â You ever nod along while every fiber of your being screams, Nope, not true!? Over-Spiritualizing â Just because someone prays about something doesnât mean their actions magically become good. Intentions donât equal truth.Minimizing Abuse â âMaybe Iâm making a big deal out of nothing.â Nope, friend. If it feels bad, it is bad. Maybe even worse than bad. How Faith Can Condition Us â Ever been told youâre âthinking evilâ just because you question something? Thatâs not faith. Thatâs control.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying to please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past five years, she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.
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Fear. It creeps in when youâre trying to sleep, whispers worst-case scenarios while youâre washing dishes, and makes you second-guess yourself every time you try to take a brave step forward.
But hereâs the truth: not all fear is bad. In fact, some of it is a God-given superpower... and some of it? More like an overactive smoke alarm when you've just made toast.
In this Flying Higher moment, we break down the two kinds of fearâclean fear that protects you and dirty fear that keeps you stuck. You'll learn:
⨠How fear really works in your brain and body
⨠Why Christian women in abusive relationships often live in chronic fear
⨠The surprising root fear hiding under all the others
⨠How to tell if fear is leading youâor limiting you
⨠Practical ways to reclaim your peace (without gaslighting yourself)If youâve ever been afraid of making a mistake, being alone, messing up your kids, or just feeling your feelingsâthis oneâs for you.
Join me for the entire course called The Fear Cure inside Flying Higher by visiting joinflyinghigher.com -
In todayâs episode, I am joined by life coach and fellow survivor advocate Diana Swillinger to explore a fascinating and often misunderstood topic: Can you gaslight yourself? We dive deep into what gaslighting is, how it manifests in relationships, and whether people unconsciously manipulate their own thoughts and emotions as a survival mechanism. This candid discussion sheds light on self-doubt, emotional survival, and the process of breaking free from harmful thought patterns.
Definition of Gaslighting: A psychological manipulation tactic where an abuser causes the victim to question their own reality, memories, or sanity. This can be intentional or unintentional.Gaslighting as a Category: It encompasses various abuse tactics such as blaming, projection, and minimizing.Self-Gaslighting as Survival: While traditional gaslighting is a manipulation tactic used by one person against another, self-gaslighting often arises as an unconscious coping mechanism to minimize conflict and protect ourselves from emotional pain.Breaking Free: The first step in healing is acknowledging the truth and replacing self-gaslighting with truth.
Key Takeaways:Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying to please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past five years, she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.
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In this episode weâll talk about a struggle that many Christian women face after leaving an emotionally abusive marriageâparenting children who sometimes exhibit the same unhealthy behaviors as their fathers.
Through real-life examples and compassionate insights, I explore why this happens, how mothers can reframe their perspectives, and practical steps they can take to strengthen their relationship with their children while continuing their healing journey.
Key Takeaways:
Understanding why kids act like their fatherReframing the perspective on kids' behaviorHealing yourself to better parent your childPractical parenting strategiesBuilding a safe, loving home environmentRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
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Letâs talk about triggers. You know, those moments when someone says the âwrongâ thing, and suddenly youâre ready to flip a table?
Most of us see triggers as a bad thingâproof that weâre too sensitive, too emotional, or just plain too much. But what if I told you that your triggers are actually pointing you toward healing?
In this weekâs podcast episode, weâre unpacking:
âď¸ What triggers actually are (hint: theyâre not just annoying mood-ruiners)
âď¸ Why they happen (spoiler: your brain is just trying to protect you)
âď¸ How to heal them so they donât hijack your peace every time someone breathes wrong
âď¸ The ultimate trigger survival guide (yes, you can recover faster and freak out less!)If youâre ready to stop letting triggers control your emotions and start using them as a tool for growth, this episode is for you.
Join me and hundreds of other Christian women 10Xing their own healing and self-development inside Flying Higher!
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In todayâs episode, I explore the difficult and often shocking realization that wickedness exists in the worldâand sometimes within our closest relationships. Responding to a listener's inquiry and using insights from Adam Youngâs âThe Place We Find Ourselvesâ podcast, weâll unpack the biblical definition of wickedness and discuss how it operates. Iâll also share personal experiences and strategies for recognizing and dealing with destructive individuals.
The Bible differentiates between normal and wicked people. Understanding these distinctions helps us navigate relationships wisely.Wicked individuals attack and blame others when confronted with their harmful actions.Evil individuals actively seek to destroy and humiliate their targets.A person's true nature is revealed in difficult situations, especially when they are confronted about their harmful behavior.Healing from exposure to wicked or evil individuals is a lifelong process, but it becomes possible when we remove ourselves from the toxic environment.
Key Takeaways:Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here
Check out Episode 93 of âThe Place We Find Ourselvesâ podcast with Adam Young.Read the article I mentioned, âWhy Foolproofing Your Life Will Save Your Life,â and then grab Jan Silviousâ book, Foolproofing Your Life.Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may enjoy: âWhat Do You Do If Youâre Married to a Fool?â and âWhat are the Biblical Grounds for Divorce? (And Other Questions!)â
Related Resources: - Laat meer zien
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