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  • Author and mental health advocate Chris Morris has battled depression and suicidality his entire adult life: the grief of unrelenting illness, the shame of struggling, and the pain of poor guidance. In his book Resilient and Redeemed: Lessons about Suicidality and Depression from the Psych Ward, he shares how he has dealt with these challenges--and invites you to do the same, no matter your diagnosis

    Chris Morris is a writer and an advocate for the mental health community who is passionate about redefining normal and building hope in the face of chronic illness and special needs. He is the author of three books, and his articles have appeared in numerous media outlets, including Fathom magazine, Stigma Fighters, Crosswalk, and The Mighty. Learn more at ChrisMorrisWrites.com.

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  • Professor David Gushee is back on the podcast to talk about how the moral teachings of Jesus can help those who feel the old version of their faith is no longer working to cultivate a more examined and robust faith. In Gushee's new book, The Moral Teachings of Jesus: Radical Instruction in the Will of God, he examines forty teachings of Jesus, drawn from all four New Testament Gospels, to clarify exactly what Jesus said about the moral life.

    Rev. Dr. David P. Gushee is Distinguished University Professor of Christian Ethics at Mercer University, and Chair of Christian Social Ethics at Vrije Universiteit (“Free University”) Amsterdam, and Senior Research Fellow, International Baptist Theological Study Centre.

    Gushee is the elected Past-President of both the American Academy of Religion and the Society of Christian Ethics, signaling his role as one of America's leading Christian ethicists. He is the author, co-author, editor, or co-editor of more than 28 books, and has had a global impact in the field of Christian ethics. A leader in the growing post-evangelical movement, he has also put feet to his faith in several activist campaigns.

    David and his wife Jeanie live in Atlanta. He is a classic novel reader, world traveler, and tennis player, and awaits a call from his beloved Atlanta Braves to resume the baseball career he abandoned in college.

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  • We talked with podcaster, theology nerd, and former pastor Josh Patterson about leaving the pastorate, starting his (Re)thinking Faith podcast, working a "secular" job, and why he's looking forward to Theology Beer Camp (Oct 17-19 in Denver - join us and register using our code GRAVITYHOBBIT to get $50 off registration!).

    Joshua Patterson is the founder and host of the (Re)thinking Faith Podcast. He is an independent theologian with a love for Process-Relational thought, Radical Theology, and the Mystics. When not reading or podcasting, Josh enjoys playing ice hockey and spending time with his friends and family.

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  • We continue our series with Jon DePue (co-author of Beyond Justification: Liberating Paul’s Gospel) about how to interpret specific scripture passages and theological ideas in the new "liberated" way he outlines in the book.

    Today we talk about "faith" - what does Paul actually mean when he talks about faith? What does it mean for us to have faith?

    Jon DePue is a graduate of Duke Divinity School and has served churches as director of Christian education for several years. He currently works as a learning community support specialist for Indianapolis Public Schools.

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  • We talked with podcaster and theology nerd Tripp Fuller about the history, mistakes, and legacy of the emerging church movement of the early 2000s, the state of the church and theology right now, and why he's excited about Theology Beer Camp this fall (Oct 17-19 in Denver).

    Tripp Fuller likes the LA Lakers, beer camps, Illia Delio, the Church, philosophy, Battlestar Galactica and LOTR, podcasting, writing, and Jesus, most likely not but maybe in that order. He's the host of the acclaimed podcast Homebrewed Christianity, and uses his PhD in Philosophy, Religion and Theology at Luther Seminary where he's a visiting professor of theology.

    Join us at Theology Beer Camp Oct 17-19, 2024

    Matt and Ben will be in Denver Oct 17-19, 2024 for THEOLOGY BEER CAMP, and they'd love to see you there, too! Register using our code GRAVITYHOBBIT to get $50 off registration. Keynote speakers include Brian McLaren, Ilia Delio, and Diana Butler Bass. Register at this link, and make sure to use our code GRAVITYHOBBIT to get $50 off.

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  • Khristi Lauren Adams's faith was first shaped by her experiences as a Black girl--learning about Scripture from her grandmother, Mama Hattie; "playing church" with her seven cousins over summer vacation; and grieving the murder of her sixteen-year-old friend when she was just fifteen. In Womanish Theology: Discovering God Through the Lens of Black Girlhood, Adams reflects on those experiences, inviting readers to learn from a new perspective and guiding them to a deeper understanding of their own spirituality.

    Khristi Lauren Adams is an author, speaker, and youth advocate. Khristi works as Dean of Spiritual Life & Diversity, Equity & Inclusion at the Hill School and is an instructor of Religious Studies. She is a graduate of Temple University and Princeton Theological Seminary where she obtained a Master of Divinity degree. Khristi is the former founder and director of the Becoming Conference, designed to empower, educate, and inspire Black girls between the ages of 12-16. She currently sits on the Board of Advisors for Leadership LINKS, Inc, a leadership education organization that equips Black girls to become changemakers. She is a 2017 graduate of “Lead New Jersey”, a select group of thought-leaders from the public, social, and private sectors of NJ and the surrounding communities. She also currently serves as a mentor for The Garden Initiative for Black Women’s Religious Activism, a nine-month peer-to-peer and intergenerational mentorship program for black women leaders across religious traditions in the United States.

    You can connect with Khristi and her work on her website: khristilaurenadams.com.

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  • Registered psychologist and award-winning researcher Hillary McBride joins us to talk about all things embodied. In her latest book Practices for Embodied Living: Experiencing the Wisdom of Your Body, McBride offers an experiential guide--centered on prompts, activities, and opportunities for reflection--to support readers who want to practice embodiment.

    Dr. Hillary McBride is a registered psychologist, a researcher, and podcastor, with expertise that includes working with trauma and trauma therapies, embodiment, at the intersection of spirituality and mental health. Her first book, Mothers, Daughters, and Body Image: Learning to Love Ourselves as We Are, was published in 2017; she was the senior editor of the textbook Embodiment and Eating Disorders: Theory, Research, Prevention, and Treatment, which was published in 2018. Her bestselling book The Wisdom of Your Body: Finding wholeness, healing and connection through embodied living came out in the fall of 2021, and in January she released Practices for Embodied Living. Her next book Holy Hurt: understanding and healing from spiritual trauma, comes out April 2025. She has been recognized by the American Psychological Association, and the Canadian Psychological Association for her research and clinical work. In addition to being a teaching faculty at Trinity Western University, she is an ambassador for Sanctuary Mental Health, and the host of CBC's award winning podcast Other People's Problems. Hillary makes her home in the pacific northwest in British Columbia, Canada.

    You can connect with Hillary and her work via her website: www.hillarylmcbride.com. You can also find her on Instagram.

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  • We talk with writer and artist Jenai Auman about the experience of being left out or pushed out of the church, and how to find spiritual rest and belonging in a God who loves, restores, and blesses the outcast and the marginalized. In her book Othered: Finding Belonging with the God Who Pursues the Hurt, Harmed, and Marginalized, Jenai draws on her experience growing up as a biracial kid in the American South as well as working within toxic ministry environments to reveal a hopeful, trauma-informed way forward.

    Jenai Auman is a Filipina American writer and artist. She draws from her years in church leadership as well as her trauma-informed training to write on healing, hope, and the way forward. She is passionate about providing language so readers can find a faith that frees. She received her bachelor's degree in behavioral health science and is currently pursuing a master's in spiritual formation at Northeastern Seminary. Jenai lives in Houston, Texas, with her husband, Tyler, and their sons, Quinn and Graham.

    You can connect with Jenai and find out more about her work on her website.

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  • Today we start a new regular series on the podcast, based on our conversation a couple months ago with Jon DePue about Liberating the Gospel from Mere Justification. The paradigm shift in Beyond Justification: Liberating Paul’s Gospel (the book Jon co-authored with Douglas Campbell) is such a big one for most of us that we thought it'd be helpful to talk regularly with Jon about how to interpret specific scripture passages and theological ideas in this new "liberated" way.

    Today we talk about the "wrath of God," especially at it appears in Romans. What does Paul mean when he talks about the "wrath of God" and how does it function in his theology and proclamation of the gospel of Jesus? How can we recover from the wrong uses of God's wrath? How should we think and talk and preach about "the wrath of God" today?

    Jon DePue is a graduate of Duke Divinity School and has served churches as director of Christian education for several years. He currently works as a learning community support specialist for Indianapolis Public Schools.

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  • After twenty years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, a global pandemic, protests against racial violence, and frequent shootings, more Americans than ever are living with the effects of trauma.

    Our conversation with Army veteran and Episcopal priest David Peters helps us see the good news that Jesus was born and died in a traumatized world, and his story speaks forever to wounded people worldwide.

    Peters' book Post-Traumatic Jesus: Reading the Gospel with the Wounded explores Jesus' life story through the post-traumatic lens with which the Gospel writers first wrote it--as people who had seen their leader executed by the same oppressive government that had already shrouded their whole lives in anxiety and fear. Meeting the post-traumatic Jesus--the only Jesus the world has ever known--can be a balm to the wounds of modern Christians and spiritual seekers.

    David W. Peters served as an enlisted Marine and Army Chaplain, who deployed to Iraq in 2005. He is the author of several books, notably Death Letter: God, Sex and War and Post-Traumatic God: How the Church Cares for People Who Have Been to Hell and Back, and Post-Traumatic Jesus: Reading the Gospel with the Wounded. Today he serves as the vicar of St. Joan of Arc Episcopal Church in Austin, Texas.

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  • Matt and Ben respond to a listener question about finding a place in the body of Christ after clergy sexual abuse.

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  • In the face of the rising threat of Christian Nationalism to both church and democracy, Beau Underwood joins us to talk about how some of the hidden undercurrents are present not just among evangelical Christians, but in the mainline church, which is the theme of the book he co-wrote with Brian Kaylor, Baptizing America: How Mainline Protestants Helped Build Christian Nationalism.

    Beau Underwood is the senior minister at Allisonville Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Indianapolis, a contributing editor for Word&Way, and is pursuing a doctorate in public affairs. He has graduate degrees from the University of Chicago in both religion and public policy. His writing as appeared in Sojourners, The Christian Century, and Religion and Politics.

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  • We're starting a Book Club, and you're invited! We talk about why we wanted to do this, how you can be involved, and the first book we'll discuss: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism, by journalist Tim Alberta.

    The Book Club will be a weekly discussion on Fridays at 12pm ET starting August 2, 2024 (recordings available to all members). To participate, get yourself a paid membership to the Gravity Community.



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  • Though evangelicals emphasize fidelity to the gospel above all else, many have fallen in step with "a different gospel" of Christian nationalism. Analyzing Scripture, church history, and current events in the United States and Russia, Joel Looper offers evangelicals a theological rationale for resisting Christian nationalism.

    Joel Looper teaches at Baylor University where he serves as coordinator for Shalom Mission Communities, a network of international Christian communities. He's the author of Bonhoeffer's America: A Land Without Reformation and the book we talked about on this episode Another Gospel: Christian Nationalism and the Crisis of Evangelical Identity.

    Show notes:

    The article we referenced about the Texas school board member who disavowed the far-right platform she campaigned on: "A GOP Texas school board member campaigned against schools indoctrinating kids. Then she read the curriculum."

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  • There is no such thing as substitutionary death sacrifice in the Torah, which changes everything we thought we knew about Jesus's death. The consistent message throughout the entire NT is not that Jesus died instead of us, rather, Jesus dies ahead of us so that we can unite with him and be conformed the image of his death. It's not about substitution, it's about participation, and Andrew Rillera helps us see this in his book Lamb of the Free: Recovering the Varied Sacrificial Understandings of Jesus’s Death.

    Andrew Rillera is Assistant Professor of Biblical Studies and Theology at The King's University in Edmonton, Alberta, in Canada.

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  • What if obedience is not the goal of Christian parenting? What if it's our job as parents to instead help our kids get to know God and discover that God can be trusted? In her book Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn't Have to Heal From, pastor and parent Meredith Miller helps families nurture the kind of faith that can flex and grow, be broken and repaired. The kind of faith that can stand up to the life a child will live, the doubts they will encounter, and the questions that will come up along the way.

    Meredith Miller is a pastor and a parent who has spent most of the past twenty years helping families follow Jesus. She has been involved with Fuller Youth Institute since 2007 and from 2014-2019 she was Curriculum Director for the children's ministry at Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago, Illinois. Meredith holds a Master of Divinity degree from Fuller Theological Seminary, as well as a B.A. in Religious Studies and Spanish Language & Literature from Westmont College. She is pastor of Pomona Valley Church and calls Southern California home.

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  • Men today are starved for sexual formation. They've been failed by parents, churches, and culture alike, leading to widespread shame, confusion, and brokenness in the area of sexuality. We talked with therapist Sam Jolman about helping men reconnect their God-given sexuality with innocence, awe, and joy, and shows readers how to celebrate--instead of struggle against--the gift of sexual desire. Sam is the author of The Sex Talk You Never Got: Reclaiming the Heart of Masculine Sexuality.

    Sam Jolman is a professional therapist with over 20 years of experience specializing in men’s issues and sexual trauma recovery. He seeks to help men and women heal, know their stories and find greater sexual wholeness and aliveness. He received his master’s in counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and was future trained in Narrative Trauma car through the Allender Center at the Seattle School of Theology and psychology. Sam lives in Colorado with his wife an three sons. Together they enjoy exploring the best camping spots in a pop-up camper. Sam goes to therapy, loves fly fishing and can often be found trying to catch his breath on the floor of his local CrossFit Gym.

    You can connect with Sam's work by subscribing to his Substack newsletter, and you can get his free e-book on how to give a sex talk by ordering his book and connecting on his website.

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  • Lee C. Camp joins us (again!) for a wide-ranging conversation about human flourishing, habits, ethics, politics, philosophy, and faith. This is Lee's second time on the podcast - we talked with him in 2020 about his book Scandalous Witness: A Little Political Manifesto for Christians.

    Lee C. Camp is an award-winning teacher and Professor of Theology & Ethics at Lipscomb University in Nashville, Tennessee. Lee is also the host of No Small Endeavor - an acclaimed podcast series exploring the habits, practices, and dispositions that facilitate human flourishing, a.k.a. the good life.

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  • In a world experiencing turbulent change, we need people who are resilient, kind, open, generous, and brave. How do we become those kinds of people? In Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times, popular podcaster Elizabeth Oldfield uses the seven deadly sins as a framework to explore this question.

    Elizabeth Oldfield hosts The Sacred, a podcast about our deepest values, the stories that shape us, and how we can build empathy and understanding between people who are very different. She has a regular column for UnHerd and has appeared on BBC One, Radio 5Live, Radio 4, and The World Service. Her work has appeared in The Financial Times, Prospect, The Times, CNN, The Guardian, and beyond. Oldfield is also a contributing editor at Comment magazine, a guest lecturer at the University of Birmingham, and former director and now senior fellow at Theos, the UK's leading religion and society think tank. She lives in London, England.

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  • We talk with spiritual director Terra McDaniel about how to rediscover the lost practice of lament, so we can heal and hope again. Most people don't know how to process personal or communal mourning and instead struggle to honor our tears, vulnerability, and the full weight of these disillusioning times. But tending our grief is exactly what we need to reimagine a way forward.

    Terra's book Hopeful Lament: Tending Our Grief Through Spiritual Practices makes space for the powerful act of crying out before a loving God and offers provoking reflection questions, embodied practices, and applications for families with children. Learn how to journey gently through suffering.

    Terra McDaniel is a spiritual director for adults and children. She spent two decades as a pastor and ministry leader and earned her MDiv at Portland Seminary. McDaniel wrote More Than Ordinary with Doug Sherman and is a regular contributor to the Companioning Center blog. She lives with her husband in Austin, Texas, with her twin grandchildren nearby.

    You can connect with her and her work on her website.

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