Afleveringen
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THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived
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This one's mostly about Rod Dreher. We also read your letters about:
Performing sex live on stage (this is a reminder to get your tickets to Thursday's Chicago live show!)Why grandparents can't retireThe mechanics of OrbĂĄn's Home Building Allowance for Families policy and its longer-term impacts on the Hungarian housing marketThe overlap between Fidesz and the Heritage Foundation, as well as their connecting link: the Danube Institute -
***TICKETS TO OUR JULY 2 SHOW IN CHICAGO ARE ON SALE! GET YOUR TICKETS NOW BY CLICKING HERE!!!!***
While natalism as a political project has its proponents, few heads of state have been willing to attempt to use the full force of the state to raise birth rates. However, one leader does stand out: Hungary's recently-ousted prime minister, Viktor OrbĂĄn. This week, June and Josh take a look at Orban's 16-year term as PM, the effects of his policies, and the ways that right-wing authoritarianism in Europe both mirrors and partners with similar movements in the United States.
***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!***
***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]***
EPISODE ART: Viktor OrbĂĄn, the former prime minister of Hungary.
AUDIO CLIPS:
1:08:34 â Marco Rubio speaking in Budapest in February 2026, declaring a "golden era" in relations between Hungary and the United States1:14:09 â JD Vance calling Donald Trump at an April 2026 Viktor Orban election rally in BudapestSOURCES:
How Viktor Orban hollowed out Hungaryâs democracyHow Viktor OrbĂĄnâs Hungary Eroded the Rule of Law and Free MarketsHungaryâs opposition struggles to beat Viktor Orbanâs stealth autocracyHome Building Allowance for FamiliesViktor Orbanâs pro-natalist policies are not workingIn a state of necessity. How has Orban changed HungaryHungary passes constitutional amendment to ban LGBTQ+ public eventsHungary Ends Legal Recognition for Transgender and Intersex PeopleHungaryâs ongoing demographic decline: an increase in birth rates is the only hopeAuthoritarian Populism in Disguise: OrbĂĄnâs Anti-Worker âPro-Workerâ RegimeHungary races to build border fence as migrants keep comingOrbĂĄn rejects the European Unionâs migration agreement and defends keeping asylum seekers out of EU territoryConference of U.S. conservatives opens in Orbanâs HungaryHungary offered âŹ30,000 to couples having 3 kidsâbut its birth rate has still fallen to a record monthly lowVance, after rallying in Hungary for Orban, says he wasnât surprised by the autocratâs defeatHungary: Prime Minister Viktor OrbĂĄn announced a seven-point family protection action planHungaryâs New Leader Reveals Viktor OrbĂĄn Was Paying CPAC Here's why American conservatives are heading to Hungary for a big conferenceAt CPAC, Hungaryâs Orban decries LGBTQ+ rights, migration What one country's experiment says about attempts to boost birth rates Farewell To Hungary, And To EuropeFOLLOW THE SHOW:
Website: illconceivedpodcast.comBluesky: âȘ@illconceivedpodcast.comTumblr: @illconceivedpodFOLLOW JOSH:
Website: joshboerman.comBluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.worldOther podcast: The Worst of All Possible WorldsStream: Traditional ScrenchFOLLOW JUNE:
Bluesky: @junlper.beerOther podcast: Kill The ComputerWriting: June's SubstackILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived
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We weren't able to cover everything we wanted to discuss about the Collins family in the main episode, so this week we dug in for a look at the Based Camp Discord community, the Collins Institute's bespoke homeschool learning management system Parrhesia.io, and Malcom's attempt at crafting a core family theology.
Plus, we read your letters about:
Josh blowing it on knowing anything about Lord of the Rings
The sociopolitical context of the University of St Andrews in Scotland
The creative output of genetic dead-enders like us
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Josh got sick and had to go to the hospital, so we're postponing our Chicago live show to Thursday, July 2. Here's the link to the new event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ill-conceived-podcast-live-in-chicago-one-night-only-70226-tickets-1990032806695?aff=oddtdtcreator
Previous ticket buyers should have already received a refund and a link to rebook their tickets; please let us know if you experience any issues with that. Thank you for your understanding and we'll see you in a month!
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In mainstream media coverage of natalism, one specific couple keeps popping up. Their eccentric appearance and apparent ironclad commitment to the principles of tech natalism make them catnip to curious reporters, who have profiled them exhaustively. But who are Simone and Malcolm Collins, and what are they actually trying to sell you? This week, Josh and June do their best to find out.
***GET TICKETS TO JOSH'S SHOW IN CINCINNATI HERE AND THE ILL CONCEIVED JUNE 4TH LIVE SHOW IN CHICAGO HERE!!!***
***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!***
***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]***
EPISODE ART: Malcolm and Simone Collins in a press photo by Hannah Yoon
AUDIO CLIPS:
18:35 â Simone Collins in a YouTube video entitled "Are You an Ambivert?" originally uploaded in November 201124:15 â Simone performing a cover of the Firefly theme song in a video originally uploaded to YouTube in July 201146:59 â Simone introduces Malcolm to the channel in a video originally uploaded to YouTube in November 2014 1:00:08 â Malcolm and Simone discuss "A Pragmatist's Take on the Red Pill" originally uploaded to YouTube in March 20201:16:46 â The introduction to the Based Camp episode "One Conspiracy Explains All Modern Culture (This Explains EVERYTHING)" originally uploaded to YouTube in May 20261:20:09 â The Bort license plate scene from "Itchy And Scratchy Land" (The Simpsons, S06E04)SOURCES:
"How I Proposed to My Girlfriend on Reddit" by Malcolm Collins (Huffington Post, August 6, 2013)ArtCorgi's profile on Crunchbase"Why Many Entrepreneurs Are Turning to a âSearch-Fundâ Model" by Glenn Hunter (D Magazine, January 9, 2017)"Scoop: Dialog, a secretive forum, plans D.C.-area campus" by Mike Allen (Axios, August 7, 2025)Simone's LinkedIn profileMalcolm's LinkedIn profileSimone's Reddit accountMalcolm's Reddit account"Meet the âeliteâ couples breeding to save mankind" by Io Dodds (The Telegraph, April 19, 2023)"About Simone and Malcolm Collinsâ Smear Campaign Against Me" by Lyman Stone (Medium post, October 22, 2024)"Americaâs premier pronatalists on having âtons of kidsâ to save the world: âThere are going to be countries of old people starving to deathâ" by Jenny Kleeman (The Guardian, May 25, 2024)Based Camp on YouTubeFOLLOW THE SHOW:
Website: illconceivedpodcast.comBluesky: âȘ@illconceivedpodcast.comTumblr: @illconceivedpodFOLLOW JOSH:
Website: joshboerman.comBluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.worldOther podcast: The Worst of All Possible WorldsStream: Traditional ScrenchFOLLOW JUNE:
Bluesky: @junlper.beerOther podcast: Kill The ComputerWriting: June's SubstackILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)
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Thursday, June 4 at 7pm / Lincoln Lodge, Chicago
$20 per ticket / 50 tickets only
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ill-conceived-podcast-live-in-chicago-one-night-only-60426-tickets-1990032806695?aff=oddtdtcreator
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THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived
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The natalist arguments of people like JD Vance are increasingly being used to defend new laws rolling back bodily autonomy, and in Wyoming, a newly signed "fetal heartbeat" bill has made this connection explicit. We're talking about it, plus we read your mail about:
The tendencies of fundamentalist Catholicism vs. more mainstream Catholicism and the people they tend to attract
The varying cultural tendences of different ethnic Catholic traditions
JD's connection to Erika Kirk and her whole deal
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The Vice President of the United States and his wife Usha are expecting their fourth baby, setting an apparent example for their fellow natalists. But just how intertwined is JD Vance with the natalist movement overall and what does it have to do with Ushaâs new podcast about childrenâs books? This week, June and Josh dig into JD Vanceâs history with conservatism and Catholicism to try to figure it out.
***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!***
***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]***
EPISODE ART: JD Vance in a press photo by Niall Carson for Getty Images. Born in Middletown, Ohio, Vance graduated from Ohio State University and Yale Law School, eventually working under Peter Thiel at Mithril Capital. After being elected to the United States Senate in 2022, Vance was selected by Donald Trump to serve as his running mate for the 2024 presidential election.
AUDIO CLIPS:
18:51 â Donald Trump reading from 2 Corinthians as part of the America Reads the Bible special event24:51 â JD Vance referring to Democratic opposition as "childless cat ladies"59:39 â Usha Vance reading The Tale of Peter Rabbit by Beatrix Potter for her podcast Storytime with the Second LadySOURCES:
J. D. Vance and the Rightâs Call to Have More BabiesThe troubling history behind JD Vance's natalismJD Vance And Peter Thiel: What To Know About The Relationship Between Trumpâs VP Pick And The BillionaireWhat have I done? I forced my kid to listen to Usha Vanceâs podcast - now sheâs a fanJD Vance Repeats âAnti-Familyâ Criticism of Democrats on Sunday Morning News Show TourBaby Bonuses and Motherhood Medals: Why We Shouldnât Trust the Pronatalist MovementTrump May Soon Offer a Motherhood Medal, an Idea Popularized in Nazi GermanyRepublicans Are Right: One Party Is âAnti-Family and Anti-KidâUsha Vance and JD Vance, Pronatalismâs Poster Couple, Are Having a 4th KidJD Vanceâs Approval Rating Plunges to New Historic LowMayor Mamdani and Governor Hochul Announce First Four Communities to Receive Free 2-K SeatsDemocracy | Of Childless âPsychopathâ Women and âReplacementâ: JD Vanceâs Birthrate and Immigration Obsessions Have Shared HistoryAn Analysis of Happy No Snakes Day and the Deeper Implications on the Horizon for Childrenâs Literature and Christian Nationalist Policies in the Public School SystemBeyond the Nuclear FamilyThe Role of the Nuclear Family in CapitalismWith Defense of ICE, JD Vance Clarifies His Next Target: YouJ.D. Vance Used to Be an Atheist. What He Believes Now Is Telling.Gold Mother's CrossWikipedia: Order of Maternal GloryWho in the USSR was awarded the âMother-Heroineâ title?National Conservatism: A Statement of Principles5% of People Detained By ICE Have Violent Convictions, 73% No ConvictionsFOLLOW THE SHOW:
Website: illconceivedpodcast.comBluesky: âȘ@illconceivedpodcast.comTumblr: @illconceivedpodFOLLOW JOSH:
Website: joshboerman.comBluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.worldOther podcast: The Worst of All Possible WorldsStream: Traditional ScrenchFOLLOW JUNE:
Bluesky: @junlper.beerOther podcast: Kill The ComputerWriting: June's SubstackILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)
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THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived
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Fox News has reported on the "problem" of teenagers not getting pregnant anymore. We're talking about it, and reading your letters because it turns out that a lot of you had a lot to say about Hannah Neeleman, including:The cultural specifics of Mormonism and how they're reflected in Ballerina FarmsThe sinister overtones of her husband's whole dealThe economics of farm tourism vs. functional scale farmingNatural births and why many people prefer themBallerina Farm-style natalism as a reflection of European settler-colonialismAs always, our babies stay winning!
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Natalists have an ideal life and an ideal wife: rugged, individualistic, and dedicated to self-sufficiency. Perhaps nothing epitomizes this ideal better than Ballerina Farm, the popular social media account of dancer and pageant queen Hannah Neeleman that is growing into an influential direct-to-consumer food and lifestyle brand that no longer sells raw milk. This week, Josh and June look at the history of Ballerina Farm and try to understand how its strange brand of seemingly apolitical tradwifery serves as a stalking horse for the natalist movement and reactionary politics more broadly.
CHECK OUT OUR RECENT PODCAST GUEST APPEARANCES!
June on Anime SickosJosh on Lions Led By DonkeysJosh on Well There's Your Problem***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!***
***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]***
EPISODE ART: Hannah Neeleman in a professional headshot. After graduating from Juilliard's dance undergraduate program while pregnant, Neeleman moved to Brazil then back home to Utah, where she and her husband Daniel purchased a farm along the east side of the Wasatch Range. Her Instagram account Ballerina Farm has over 10 million followers.
AUDIO CLIPS:
1:01:48 â "Strength at Every Stage" protein powder advertisement from Ballerina Farm1:27:12 â Response to the Sunday Times article from the Ballerina Farm Instagram accountSOURCES:
Ballerina Farm websiteBallerina Farm InstagramâMeet the queen of the âtrad wivesâ (and her eight children)â by Megan Agnew (The Sunday Times, July 20, 2024)âShe Gave Birth Two Weeks Ago. Now Sheâs in a Beauty Pageantâ by Madison Malone Kircher (The New York Times, January 30, 2024)âTycoon or Tradwife? The Woman Behind Ballerina Farm Makes Her Own Pathâ by Julia Moskin (The New York Times, December 3, 2024)âThe Business of Ballerina Farmâ by Liz Flora (Business of Fashion, May 27, 2025)âWhen Ballerina Farm Comes to Townâ by Erica Schwiegershausen (The Cut, September 10, 2025)âPark City Creamery to sell business to Ballerina Farmâ by Katie Hatzfeld (The Park Record, December 23, 2025)âBallerina Farm pauses raw milk sales after samples fail health testsâ by Grace Doerfler (KPCW, January 29, 2026)Hannah Neelemanâs feature spread in Evie magazineâAudio Recording From Ballerina Farm Times Interview Exposes Dishonest Journalismâ by Nicole Dominique (Evie, July 29, 2024)FOLLOW THE SHOW:
Website: illconceivedpodcast.comBluesky: âȘ@illconceivedpodcast.comTumblr: @illconceivedpodFOLLOW JOSH:
Website: joshboerman.comBluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.worldOther podcast: The Worst of All Possible WorldsStream: Traditional ScrenchFOLLOW JUNE:
Bluesky: @junlper.beerOther podcast: Kill The ComputerWriting: June's SubstackILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)
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We're so back. The next Ill Conceived, about Ballerina Farm, has been recorded and will drop this coming Friday.
To tide you over until then, we've brought you some extra goodies. Our other shows, Josh's The Worst of All Possible Worlds and June's Kill The Computer, are doing a full crossover collaboration that we're calling Beast Week, dedicated to celebrating Jimmy "MrBeast" Donaldson. And it kicks off today.
In this episode of Kill The Computer, the gang from The Worst of All Possible Worlds talked with June and Caleb about a number of videos MrBeast released in 2025. Then we dug into his theme park Beast Land, a temporary pop-up in Riyadh that was open for 45 days as part of the annual Saudi entertainment festival known as Riyadh Season.
Next up, on Wednesday, Kill The Computer will be joining Josh, Brian, and A.J. on The Worst of All Possible Worlds Patreon for a premium episode about season 2 of Beast Games. We'll also upload the first half of the episode here so you can get a taste for it.
Finally, on Friday, alongside new Ill Conceived weâll be concluding Beast Week on the Kill The Computer Patreon with an in-depth conversation about what Jimmyâs been up to so far this year and where we think he might go next.
Thank you as always for being our beloved babies.
Love, Josh
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THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived
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We try to clarify some of our thoughts last week on weight and health, then dig a bit more into some claims made by the Bro Scientists. Plus, June gets a bit loopy and we spend a solid 10+ minutes on ball tanning. We also read your emails about:
Avoiding plastics because your dad is afraid of estrogen
Jobs with lots of physical activity that are bad for your health
Finally, here's a link to the GIF that June was cracking up about. -
Testosterone is lowering. Sperm counts are shrinking. Men, a once proud and noble half of the human race, are accelerating down the road to extinction. So say many natalists, who tie their fear of demographic decline into their anxieties about gender. But how much of what they claim has any basis in truth whatsoever? This week, June and Josh take a look at Tucker Carlson's 2022 Fox Nation short "The End of Men" to see how it both set a template for and propagated narratives about declining masculinity that have since become ubiquitous.
***WANT MORE ILL CONCEIVED? Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!***
***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE WORLD FAMOUS MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]***
EPISODE ART: Tucker Carlson in an ABC News press photo. After spending years as a mid-level host of various news shows, Carlson became a leading star of Fox News' primetime lineup with the debut of Tucker Carlson Tonight in 2016. Carlson was fired by the network in 2023 for spreading falsehoods and misleading video about the January 6, 2020 riots on the United States Capitol and has since become a leading voice of right-wing new media.
SOURCES:
Why Tucker Carlson's 'The End of Men' Is So DisturbingWhy Are Testosterone Levels Decreasing?Secular trends in testosterone- findings from a large state-mandate care providerEnvironmental Toxins Likely Cause of 50% Decline in Global Sperm CountMale fertility is declining â studies show that environmental toxins could be a reasonLow t and fertilityLow Testosterone & FertilityEndocrine DisruptorWhat are endocrine disruptors?What Are Ultra Processed Foods? How Diet Impacts HealthSeeding doubt: The truth about cooking oilsTrump executive order on a weed killer chemical didnât do RFK Jr. any favorsRFK Jr. post agreeing with Trumps EORed Light Therapy: Benefits, Safety and Things to KnowIs Eating Raw Eggs Bad?Cold Plunge Benefits: The Science Behind Ice Baths for RecoveryBeef Tallow: Doctors Group Shares Consumer Health Alert WarningâUnapologetically Bombâ Whitehouse postThe Myth of the New Man in Italian Fascist IdeologyFOLLOW THE SHOW:
Website: illconceivedpodcast.comBluesky: âȘ@illconceivedpodcast.comTumblr: @illconceivedpodFOLLOW JOSH:
Website: joshboerman.comBluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.worldOther podcast: The Worst of All Possible WorldsStream: Traditional ScrenchFOLLOW JUNE:
Bluesky: @junlper.beerOther podcast: Kill The ComputerWriting: June's SubstackILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)
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THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived
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The new CEO of Xbox is worried about birthrates and thinks AI might have the solution. We're talking about it, plus we read your letters from the Jeffrey Epstein episode regarding:
How "pregnant people" provides more specificity as a term than "pregnant women" and why natalists don't like it
The emails that Sarah Ferguson, the then-wife of then-Prince Andrew, sent to Epstein
How Epstein associate Nick Bostrom's obsession with superintelligent AI reflects a faulty consensus among tech industry types
Also, here's a link to the official music video for Jimmy MacMillan's song "Ain't Nothing To Talk About" in its entirety.
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On January 30, the U.S. Department of Justice released over 3 million pages of new information about Jeffrey Epstein. Among these documents are thousands of new emails detailing Epstein's links to technologists and academics in the world of evolutionary biology, eugenics, and artificial intelligence. This week, Josh and June dig into the history of Epstein's connections with these people and discuss how his bizarre plans for his own offspring reflect the ideas and objectives of the tech natalist agenda.
***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!***
***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]***
EPISODE ART: Jeffrey Epstein, the disgraced financier and human trafficker, wearing a Harvard university sweatshirt. One month after being indicted on federal child sex trafficking charges in 2019, Epstein was found dead in his jail cell, leaving his likely thousands of victims without justice for the crimes he committed.
SOURCES:
âHarvard closes evolution center after finding connections to Jeffrey Epsteinâ by Edward Helmore (The Guardian, March 27, 2021)âMartin Nowak Sanctioned for Jeffrey Epstein Involvementâ by Lydialyle Gibson (Harvard Magazine, March 25, 2021)âHow Jeffrey Epstein Captivated Harvardâ by Michael Massing (The Nation, July 24, 2023)Harvard report concerning Jeffrey Epsteinâs connections to Harvard University âProfessor Corina Tarnita on the Epstein Files: âI Wish I Had Never Known Himââ by Lia Opperman (Princeton Alumni Weekly, February 10, 2026)âJeffrey Epstein Raked In $200 Million After Legal and Financial Crisesâ by Matthew Goldstein and Steve Eder (The New York Times, October 3, 2019)âEpstein files reveal deeper ties to scientists than previously knownâ by Dan Garisto (Nature, February 6, 2026)Epstein testimony before the Economic Development Commission, USVIâJeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mysteryâ by Landon Thomas Jr. (New York Magazine, October 28, 2002)âJeffrey Epstein files shed light on ties to Santa Fe Institute scientistsâ by Clara Bates (Santa Fe New Mexican, February 11, 2026)âJeffrey Epstein E-mails Reveal Depth of Ties to High-Profile Scientistsâ by Dan Vergano (Scientific American, November 13, 2025)âThe DIY designer baby project funded with Bitcoinâ by Antonio Regalado (MIT Technology Review, February 1, 2019)âJeffrey Epstein Hoped to Seed Human Race With His DNAâ by James B. Stewart, Matthew Goldstein and Jessica Silver-Greenberg (The New York Times, July 31, 2019)âWhy did Jeffrey Epstein cultivate famous scientists?â by Dan Vergano (Scientific American, January 20, 2026)âJeffrey Epstein had a 'Frankenstein'-like plan to analyze human DNA in the US Virgin Islands, and it reportedly pulled in $200 millionâ by Erin Brodwin (Business Insider, October 4, 2019)âTexas GOP politician Don Huffines plans Christian retreat at Zorro Ranchâ by Clara Bates (Santa Fe New Mexican, February 16, 2026)âFormer MIT scientist funded by Epstein made racist and sexist claims in private emailsâ by Kate Selig (Boston Globe, November 21, 2025)âNew Mexico House unanimously enacts Epstein âtruth commissionââ by Danielle Prokop (Source NM, February 16, 2026)âHow Jeffrey Epstein Bought His Way Into An Exclusive Intellectual Boys Clubâ by Peter Aldhous (Buzzfeed News, September 26, 2019)âHow Epstein Infiltrated the Silicon Valley Network Behind Trumpâs New Tech Orderâ by Nafeez Ahmed (Byline Times, December 3, 2025)âHow Epstein Channelled Race Science and âClimate Cullingâ Into Silicon Valleyâs AI Eliteâ by Nafeez Ahmed (Byline Times, December 5, 2025)DIRECT LINKS TO EPSTEIN FILES QUOTED IN THIS EPISODE:
Exchange between Epstein and Stephen Kosslyn where Epstein requests the name of a psychologist for a 15-year-old girlEpsteinâs pitch to Martin Nowak for âcommercial evolutionâNowakâs first replyNowakâs second replyNowakâs third replyExchange between Nowak and Epstein about âa polish beautyâExchange between Nowak and Epstein about a âcaptured spyâExchange between Nowak and Epstein concerning Nowakâs âKorean friendâExchange between Nowak's assistant, Epstein, and Epstein's accountant concerning a wire of $10,000 to "the girl from Romania"Journal that appears to document a young womanâs experience as a âhuman incubatorâ for EpsteinFOLLOW THE SHOW:
Website: illconceivedpodcast.comBluesky: âȘ@illconceivedpodcast.comTumblr: @illconceivedpodFOLLOW JOSH:
Website: joshboerman.comBluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.worldOther podcast: The Worst of All Possible WorldsStream: Traditional ScrenchFOLLOW JUNE:
Bluesky: @junlper.beerOther podcast: Kill The ComputerWriting: June's SubstackILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)
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THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived
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We didn't get a lot of mail about surrogacy this week. But you wanted to hear more about weird Silicon Valley Christians and we wanted to talk about them, so we read from an interview with the founder of a Peter Thiel-connected organization called ACTS 17 that hosted the "Code and Cosmos" event we mentioned in last week's main feed episode.
Plus, an update on Trump Accounts.
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An increasingly popular childbirth option for couples who cannot easily naturally conceive is to utilize a surrogate who gestates and births the pregnancy on behalf of the intended parents. And as of late, surrogacy is also being used by some especially wealthy people, particularly in the tech industry, as a way for them to avoid pregnancy altogether. This week, June and Josh look at the history of surrogacy, the moral disagreements among the religious right about the practice, and some of the ethical and legal complications that can result.
***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!***
***WE WANT YOUR THOUGHTS FOR THE MAILBAG! Send an email with feedback about this week's episode to [email protected]***
EPISODE ART: Cindy Bi, a venture capitalist who attempted to give birth via surrogacy. When the pregnancy resulted in a stillbirth, Bi sued her surrogate and went to the press to disparage her further.
AUDIO CLIPS:
1:15:47 â Epic Church promotional "About Us" video1:22:49 â Ben Pilgreen, pastor of Epic Church, delivering a sermon called "What Maturity Demands"SOURCES:
Man into Woman: An Authentic Record of a Change of Sex (1933)The History of Surrogacy: A Legal TimelineBaby M and the Question of Surrogate MotherhoodSurrogacy Laws: The Best States For Compensated SurrogacySevere Maternal and Neonatal Morbidity Among Gestational Carriers: A Cohort StudyAmericans want biological children but prefer adoption to surrogacyThe Difference Between Love and SurrogacyGestational Surrogacy Success RatesCommon issues with surrogacy and IVFSurrogates 20 years on: long-term psychological health, contact with surrogacy families, and thoughts and feelings about post-birth contactThe Baby Died. Whose Fault Is It?The billionaire obsession with surrogacyChristianity Was âBorderline Illegalâ in Silicon Valley. Now Itâs the New ReligionThe Chinese Billionaires Having Dozens of U.S.-Born Babies Via SurrogateArtificial womb robot promises cheap surrogacy but sparks deep ethical fearsSilicon Valley wants to help me make a superbaby. Should I let it?Suggestion to use brain stem dead women's bodies for surrogate pregnancies sparks huge backlashRegulation of Genetic TestsPerspectives on Surrogate MotherhoodFOLLOW THE SHOW:
Website: illconceivedpodcast.comBluesky: âȘ@illconceivedpodcast.comTumblr: @illconceivedpodFOLLOW JOSH:
Website: joshboerman.comBluesky: @bosh.worstpossible.worldOther podcast: The Worst of All Possible WorldsStream: Traditional ScrenchFOLLOW JUNE:
Bluesky: @junlper.beerOther podcast: Kill The ComputerWriting: June's SubstackILL CONCEIVED THEME SONG BY: Caleb (Linktree / Bluesky)
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THIS IS A PREVIEW OF A BONUS B-SIDE EPISODE. For access to the full length version of this and every other biweekly bonus B-side, go to Patreon.com/illconceived
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Palantir employees are in their feels about their company's complicity with ICE and we're talking about it. We also issue a couple corrections about the Peter Thiel episode (28 is the number of days in a menstrual cycle and it turns out that Thiel does have children), then dig into the world-famous mailbag for your thoughts on:
The way that Ashley St. Clair and other right-wing media figures have influenced children to develop a conservative worldview from a young age, both recently and in the past
The privacy and data tracking implications of period tracking apps
The paradox of the non-identity problem and how it applies to IVF
If you haven't listened to June and Matt's interview with Ashley St. Clair, go check it out!
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Big data controls our lives like never before, and few people are more responsible than Peter Thiel, the billionaire cofounder of Palantir who made the bulk of his fortune by investing early in Facebook. But it turns out that beyond his obsession with data, Thiel is equally fixated on the end times, the rise of the Antichrist, and the recent trend of declining birth rates in the West. This week, Josh and June try to figure out why Peter Thiel has the worldview he does and how it bears out in his investments in natalist technology.
CHECK OUT OUR RECENT PODCAST GUEST APPEARANCES!
June on A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein talking with Ashley St. Clair about her history with, and regrets about, the right-wing propaganda machine Josh on Have You Seen This? talking about the movie Catch My SoulJosh on Reserved Recommendations talking about the Christian musical group Newsboys***REMINDER: WE HAVE A PATREON! Every other week, we release B-side supplements to the main episodes where we read your e-mail responses and discuss things further. Come check us out at Patreon.com/illconceived!***
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EPISODE ART: Peter Thiel in a 2016 address to the Republican National Convention. Born in Germany, Thiel spent the bulk of his childhood in an apartheid settlement in South West Africa. After graduating from Stanford and briefly attempting a career in law, Thiel co-founded PayPal, Palantir and numerous venture capital funds, also making a critical early investment in Facebook that now represents the core of his fortune.
AUDIO CLIPS:
59:59 â Peter Thiel talks about the Antichrist in a Mercatus Center interview about political theology1:24:12 â Peter Thiel talks about demographic collapse in an episode of The Joe Rogan ExperienceFURTHER READING:
"The Real Stakes, and Real Story, of Peter Thielâs Antichrist Obsession" by Laura Bullard (Wired, September 30, 2025)SOURCES:
"No Death, No Taxes" by George Packer (The New Yorker, November 20, 2011)"How the roots of the âPayPal mafiaâ extend to apartheid South Africa" by Chris McGreal (The Guardian, January 26, 2025)"SouthâWest Africa City Remains âMore German Than Germanyâ" by Henry Kamm (The New York Times, October 30, 1976)"Quote of the Day: PayPal Co-Founder on Sullivan & Cromwell Stint" (Bloomberg, May 24, 2016)"Peter Thiel is totally gay, people" by Owen Thomas (Gawker, December 19, 2007)"What Does Palantir Actually Do?" by Caroline Haskins (Wired, August 11, 2025)"âELITEâ: The Palantir App ICE Uses to Find Neighborhoods to Raid" by Joseph Cox (404 Media, January 15, 2026)"Jeffrey Epstein Invested With Peter Thiel, and His Estate Is Reaping Millions" by Matthew Goldstein (The New York Times, June 4, 2025)"Concern Grows Around Billionaire Peter Thielâs Period-Tracking App" by Maggie Harrison DuprĂ© (Futurism, September 11, 2022)"Surveillance Titan Peter Thiel Invests Millions in New Anti-Feminist Menstrual Tracking App" by Kylie Cheung (Jezebel, September 6, 2022)"Would You Wear a Period-Tracker Funded by Peter Thiel?" by Jessica Valenti & Kylie Cheung (Abortion Every Day, November 11, 2025)"With backing from Thiel, Recharge Capital launches $200M womenâs health investment vehicle" by Catherine Shu (TechCrunch, June 15, 2023)"Rhea reaps $10M more led by Thiel" by Kate Park (TechCrunch, May 30, 2024)FOLLOW THE SHOW:
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