Afleveringen
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Mark starts off introducing the topic which revolves around the presidential election of 2024. What do we do now?
Jim and Mark are more interested in addresing what actually happened, why it may have happened and what we might expect to happen next
What do we do now?
We went back and forth about the blue team and red team. No judgement
It's not what happens to you, it's how you respond...
We talked about elitism and messaging. How the blue team continued the division and condescension
We discussed how diverse the turnout was from the red team (ironically)
We left on an optimistic note. The system worked and now we have much work to do
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Due to a technical glitch (my fault most likely), I lost my show notes to the ether. The summary above should capture the essence of my notes
This is the best that my memeory will allow:)
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Mark introduces the topic of communication and within that general topic, the subtopic of persuasion. He then emphasizes the value of having a framework. He puts our framework in perspective
Jim chimes in about the idea of having a framework and emphasizes the IMC framework
Jim shares his 5 W’s framework and how helpful it has been for him in a variety of projects. How it adds perspective for both parties
He shares the value of effective people being clear
Jim asks Mark about his framework
Mark shares his childhood influences around communication and then his framework
What do you say?
How do you say it?
To whom do you say it?
When do you say it?
Both guys agree they made their frameworks theirs…no matter where it came from
Mark brings up the image Jim shared and begins to share the examples of lazy responses versus helpful responses
The guys dig into examples of how powerful specific words are and how changing a word can change the tone of the whole conversation
Problem versus “opportunity” or “challenge”
All the specific examples from Jim’s image become the conversations
Each example uncovers how simple shifts, different words change the whole tone and emotion of the conversation
Both guys share their experience with each example and how they have both made the mistake of using the lazy language and relearned the helpful response
They both emphasize the importance of not apologizing. Never apologize unless you’ve done real wrong
Mark shares - don’t say, “to be honest with you”. “Frank” or Jim’s option “transparent”
They discuss transparency as a double edged sword
“I’m too busy” means I’m too busy for you
They both have a laugh about “too busy”
“That’s not my” job versus, “let me get you to the right person”
Mark shares his mentor’s story about personal accountability
“I’ll try” versus “I’ll take care of it”. Jim has a different angle on this one
Mark frames it as personal accountability. I won’t dismiss you, we’ll get it taken care of
Apologizing comes up again and both guys reiterate the problem with saying you’re sorry
Jim uses “I own that one”. “That one’s on me”. Take ownership
Mark - “sorry never works for me unless you really fucked something up”
Mark shares some media examples of how apologies become bigger problems
Jim says behaviors are more important than words - Mark agrees
The next example is disagreement - “You’re wrong” versus “I have a different perspective on this than you and I’d like to share it with you”
Jim cites people who actually enjoy conflict to garner attention
“This might sound stupid but…” versus “Let’s try this.” Naysayers are everywhere
Jim agrees as an inventor he always shares new ideas…the value of reframing ideas until consensus is established
Mark brings up Jordan Peterson talking about Elon Musk and comparison (Elon’s roommate story)
Jim - All comparison leads to misery
Jim shares “I have an hypothesis” versus a theory. An hypothesis is designed to be challenged…designed to be criticized
He shares the difference between an hypothesis and a theory
A theory has been proven. An hypothesis has not yet been proven
“No worries”… “I’m happy to help”
Both guys discuss the nuance of this one
Mark feels like “no worries” is kind of a throw away
They conclude that this whole exercise is an exercise in self awareness
The final example is recommending something to someone
‘I think maybe we should” versus “I recommend we do this…”
Jim says “I think” makes him feel like “Why should I listen to you”
Mark finishes with his 4 pronged framework
He confirms that listening and asking questions before speaking is almost always the best strategy
Jim finishes with the value of clarifying assumptions, discussing desired outcomes, “who, not how” and what are the necessary resources?
Mark shares his support of this as authentic…for both parties
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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A we suggested in the episode, we want to encourage anyone who is interested and able to contribute to my daughter Caroline’s Go Fund Me campaign in support of documenting the devastation that hit Asheville, NC (where she lives) recently with her creative partners in the form of a documentary. Details can be found here - https://gofund.me/8fcfe6fa
Thanks for your support!!
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Mark introduces the topic of self interest and suggests that it might be valuable to flush out each party’s self interest before engaging another, regardless of the nature of the engagement. Then he tosses it back to Jim before engaging people in conversation.
Jim talks about introducing the idea of our podcast to others and describes how he explains it to people
He then reflects on how everything we do starts with self. He identifies our target market (middle aged men). He shares his thoughts on self interest in particular and how he tries to establish self interest
He feels this helps with transparency and honesty
Mark reflects on his sales journey and how he was coached to hide his self interest. He has evolved into a more transparent approach
Jim chimes in about his sales career and the evolution of how he handles self interest
Both guys reflect on their evolution from selling in the 80’s versus where they on now. They were taught to hold their cards close to the fence
Mark shares his reflection on the movie Glengarry GlenRoss. And Alec Baldwins “ABC” approach
Jim says he doesn’t miss that approach at all
Mark says you can make money with the hard sell, but not long term with the same clients. It’s a churn and burn
Mark reframes how he approaches sales and coaching today. Goodwill and referrals
It used to be “I win if you lose”. Now it’s win win
Jim suggests that our young folks (30’s) today have better bullshit detectors and they won’t tolerate a lack of transparency
Jim’s approach now is understanding how every party can win
Mark tells a story about his dad’s hand shake deal over a loan - there’s always been room for transparency
Jim tells his patent attorney story and how the final bill was much higher than expected - how he resolved the issue with both parties happy and the relationship in tact
Jim shares that both parties taking ownership for the solution was critical to the success of the engagement
Jim says he is much better at establishing assumptions, self interest and expectations before moving deeper into a negotiation or discussion
Marks says we often assume that others see the world the same way we do. He relates a story about his son and “getting things in writing”. Things change post agreement. Nothing is static. Things should be readdressed continuously over time
Jim distinguishes between knowledge and wisdom. Experience breeds wisdom. The world needs wisdom, not knowledge
Mark says most of his wisdom comes from mistakes and failure. He says execution is what he needs most
Jim wants to leave discussions with understanding, not power. He doesn’t know everything. No one does
Mark brings up the topic of what words mean. His example is abortion. He shares the different nuances with this particular topic
Jim jumps in and suggests that “I don’t want to talk about abortion”. Are you having the wrong conversation with the wrong person at the wrong time. “I don’t want to talk about that”. Back to self interest
One has to be self aware about what who wants to talk about
Mark jokes about the pregame conversation with Jim about the topic of health. Jim tells stories about different friends who ramble o. About their own ailments
Mark bring his daughter and he being able to help everyone…but not if they’re not ready. You can’t people who don’t want to be helped
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Jim asks Mark to share his daughter’s campaign to help Asheville, NC recover from the devastation from the hurricane by producing a documentary
The guys try to frame the situation and make a link available to help fund the project
Here is the link again - https://gofund.me/8fcfe6fa
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Mark introduces two topics. Community and legacy
He shares that they skipped last week because of the two hurricanes and tells the listeners that everyone was safe in his family and how the communities came together
Why we can get along and be supportive in times of hardship, yet we are divided in times of peace
Mark says we’re not as divided as the media portray us. Mark says if we all got together, we wouldn’t need the government…and that scares the hell out of the government
Jim says he’s grateful everyone is OK. He compliments Mark on his ability to not show anxiety
Jim speaks about anxiety in general. Common anxiety. Anxiety brings people together
It’s human nature. He asks Mark to read the definition of anxiety
Mark shares a story about his son during the storm and how, without power, he came outside to help
Jim says it’s a perfect example of how anxiety can bring us together
Jim relates to the flywheel - health- mental health. He says the best way to handle anxiety is to have a conversation. Anxiety means you’re not present
Mark relates the community effort and how healing it was
Mark gives his opinion about why he handles anxiety the way he does
Jim says it’s not what happens to us it’s how we respond and then he transitions into legacy
Mark brings up the movie Poseidon Adventure and Gene Hackman - Great legacy story
Jim says it’ not just hurricanes..the political landscape approaching a presidential election
They acknowledge Asheville NC where Mark’s daughters and girlfriend daughter lives (everyone is ok)
Mark says the reason the current “regime” is nervous is because what they disasters are showing is that when we all get together…we don’t need the government…and that scares the shit out of the people in power
Jim agrees and brings up taxes - it’s an insurance policy. We pay you and you protect us…and they have not
Jim brings up his hometown near Oakland CA where the government has taken the money and not delivered the services
And we’re supposed to trust the government again?
Mark asks, why is this, why now? We have SO MUCH media. Regardless of political stance. So much noise. Anxiety comes from the noise
Jim shares a high school football story from this past weekend. Pregame pictures:)
Mark says there is only 1 MVP
He shares his frame of reference 1928 to 2024. 7 or 8 presidents. Their opinions have context
Jim says the kids were as interested in their pictures as they were in winning the game
Mark says. What’s important? It’s ass backwards
Jim says the parents don’t know what to do either and CA is passing laws about cell phones in class
Jim says the government can play a role, but another law that schools can’t suspend students anymore. Now way more kids are misbehaving. Also the $900 theft law is still in place
Mark asks how long will this most recent tragedy be remembered in the context of community
Mark transitions into legacy and asks when one should start thinking about legacy
Jim asks that we define legacy and both guys clarify their individual positions on legacy
Jim shares some thoughts about his own current anxiety about an upcoming speech he’s to give tomorrow and his most recent provisional patent recently submitted in the context of legacy and anxiety
Mark thinks having a legacy is a form of personal accountability
Mark shares his Little League All Star anxiety and his dad’s reply
Jim shares a Sylvester Stallone story
Jim says there is such a thing as healthy anxiety
Jim asks Mark what he would say to his 30 year old self
Mark says it’s difficult at 30 to think about being 60. Legacy is what the people say about you when you’re gone. Mark wishes Jim good luck with his speech
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Mark introduces the topic based on Jim’s experience and the guys decide to expand on the flywheel and the 5 areas of life as “screens” that we look through
He starts with money
Jim shares a story about meeting some strangers and getting into a discussion about our podcast and specifically money. Jim has been getting more and more comfortable explaining our podcast
He shares how one of the people was triggered by the topic of money
These people were US citizens who grew up in Iran. He asked about wearing her veil and she told Jim she is not a fan of the covering but still wears it
This led to a discussion of worldview
Jim shares his recollection of the podcast that he listened to about money and his “screen” theory
Mark transitions to profession and how different life is for entrepreneurs and those that work for others
He talks about risk and the notion of playing with other people’s money
Jim refers back to his discussion with the strangers from Iran. A women’s perspective
Mark talks about serving men that are not encouraged to talk about emotion. He frames the podcast and the 5 areas in terms of self awareness
Jim expands on the self concepts
Jim tells about changing actual screens on his home and the analogy of looking at life through screens
He suggests that many people go through life unaware of their screens
Mark brings up masks and how different their screens are from his
Mark talks about his mom and his resultant health screen as far as eating and exercising were concerned. He shares his screen about the medical and pharmaceutical industries
Jim talks about his mom and dad and when they were born and their “cheap gene”
Mark shares his version of the cheap gene
Mark moves the discussion to relationships and brings his mom and dad back into the discussion
He suggests that boys and girls tend to look for mates like their mothers and fathers
The guys bring up how many people are jaded and the bitter or better phrase. How bitter people start as victims and how difficult this is to overcome
Mark talks about entrepreneurship and how it shapes your version of risk. He asks Jim what his life might be like if he never played football
Mark brings up grandparents and great grand parents
Jim tells a story about a company that he is close to was radio and everyone was let go. He shares how an event like that shapes peoples lens about trusting companies
Mark shares his experience with people who have been displaced and treated good bad and indifferent. He has arrived at a place where he is helping people be “prepared” for anything
Life isn’t fair. This realization is part of becoming an adult
Mark thinks that our podcast is helpful because it pushes self awareness which makes people more aware of what is true versus fair
He thinks being aware of your perspectives makes you a more effective communicator
Jim connects the discussion to our previous podcast episode of Amore Fatte
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Mark brings up the topic - Love of fate, love of one’s fate - "Amore Fati"
Stoicism
Things happen for you, not to you
Personal accountability and self awareness
Mark asks Jim to share the back story Three conversations with three good friends
Jim did a deep dive into Amore Fate. The Japanese version “wabi sabi”
The connection to imperfection
People with victim mentalities are not pleasant to be around
Mark talks about personal accountability and self awareness…learning through failure
Jim shares a couple of pet phrases. Bitter or better and don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better
Everything is a choice
Mark talks about “the pause”. Don’t react. Wait. Regain objectivity
Jim came up with 10 words
1. Gratitude - Jim asks Mark about his daily practice
2. Presence - be in the moment. Mark talks about paying attention and young people struggling with attention. Jim cites California law taking phones from kids at school
3. Embrace
4. Response
5. Peace. Mark cites peace of mind
6. Meaning and the connection to suffering. Mark brings up Victor Frankel’s man’s Search For Meaning. Mark suggests that suffering m makes you stronger…it’s a choice
7. Forgiveness. Mark sheds light on forgiving yourself
8. Self Compassion. Jim says it takes work to forgive
Mark talks about forgiving his ex wife
9. Mundane Beauty - Mark brings up his dad and how he sees new things with a childlike wonder
Life isn’t a highlight film - Jim
Mark calls the mundane practice. Weight rooms and running stairs
10. Authenticity and inauthenticity (Our Vice President)
Mark talks about applying these concepts to life
Acceptance
Explore your reactions to things and maybe change your reactions
Look for the grace in things. Mark reframes his forgiveness of his ex wife and how he contextualizes her difficult childhood. Put yourself in the other persons shoes…gets you to grace
Jim goes back to embracing. Embracing adversity
Mark talks about consistency. The need to practice. It’s never done
Jim frames the discussion as being a persons worldview
Mark says emotional decisions are often bad decisions. Use the pause
Jim says these concepts are timeless and cross cultural constructs
Mark shares his daily practice and how all religions have very much the same concepts
Jim revisits “don’t be nice, be kind”.
Mark says nice is inauthentic
Mark says we’re all going through the same shit
Jim asks us to be men. There are too many boys out there
DEI gets some laughs
Jim shares “the search for meaning in the imperfection”
He closes with meaning in the incomplete
Mark frames incomplete in terms of shipping your work at 80 or 90 % complete
Jim agrees completely
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Mark introduces the topic of civil discourse and reads the definition
He classifies it as a worldview topic and asks Jim to chime in
Jim tells the story about how he and Mark met and that the original topic of the podcast was going to be civil discourse
Jim takes us around the wheel and explains where our worldview comes from. Our childhood and our political views
Jim cites the current problem that we have in our country with being decided
He also suggests that some of the conspiracy theories out there might likely be true
Jim says we all are formed by what’s happening in our own back yard. Mark agrees
Jim references our wheel again and then asks Mark to share the story that originated the topic
Mark says in order to have civil discourse you need to be intentionally civil and kind
Both guys agree they are slightly misaligned with regard to optimism and pessimism
Jim doesn’t think “the other side” is willing to do this. They simply want to be critical
Mark asks a lot of questions and stays away from accusations
Mark tells his “yard sign” story
He responds to 3 Harris/Walz signs his neighbors dropped with his own sign response
Mark explains his positions and his take on the political argument landscape
Jim jumps back in with his take on our national elections. He likes using the phrases “red team and blue team”
He talks about the pandemic and the BLM riots influencing the 2020 election
Mark says the division is in pursuit of control. It was purposeful and it worked. He says the blue team is better at the game
Mark talks about the political terms that no longer mean anything
He cites the difference between knowing, feeling and thinking
Jim thinks we no longer vote “for” people, we vote “against” the other guy
Mark tries to take the person out of the discussion
Jim agrees, but doesn’t think people can.
Jim uses the word polarization and suggests that younger people don’t concern themselves with politics. They’re focused on getting their lives in order. He then distinguishes different generations
Marks shares a bit about speaking with his daughters
He calls civil discourse “mental gymnastics”
Jim sees people changing the topic when they get frustrated
Mark agrees and suggests people should just admit when they don’t know
People who are not able to support their positions are’t willing to admit they don’t know
Mark talks about the importance of speaking up
Jim talks about the media. Mark says there is no objective news anymore
Jim brings up Johnny Carson and his objectivity because that’s what his dad watched before bed time
Carson laughed and made fun of both sides
Mark says Carson had a singularity of purpose…to make people laugh
The guys then bring up the current late night hosts and how biased they are
Mark mentions that one group that is bringing us back is the stand up comedians
They discuss Bill Maher, Seinfeld and Joe Rogan
Mark brings up Jordan Peterson as a great civil discourse practitioner
Mark bring in RFKJr and Tulsi Gabard
Jim brings up the women of The View and Mark talks about how people love to stir shit. Bad news sells
Mark makes a suggestion to the audience about being more intentional regarding being civil
He says we spend too much energy on winning and convincing
Jim recommends not using people’s names. He likes the blue red team approach. He also recommends not watching the news and just repeating talking points
Mark recommends to not react to new things immediately. Wait, pause. Allow for context to be discovered
Don’t make assumptions and get context
Jim says you often have to simply stop talking about it
Change takes place over time, not in one conversation
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Mark introduces the topic of people being coachable and referable
Jim tells the story of a young man he knows and attending his wedding
He goes back a few years when this young man was just starting out and shares how he introduced him to his future boss because he was coachable, referable and persistent. Jim says he still, to this day, tries to be coachable
Mark says team sports is great fodder for stories
Mark shares his story about his daughter asking to speak with him about recruiting
She was coachable and referable. His interview was 2 hours and fantastic and at the end she decided she didn’t want to be a recruiter. He goes on to talk about his perspective on people being coachable or not
Mark talks about his friend who can’t have lunch without looking at his phone and how he unconsciously decided to not refer him to others because of the risk that might not bring his full attention to the introduction
Jim is reminded of somebody at the wedding saying “it’s all about who you know” and how that is helpful, but not enough…you have to be coachable, referable and persistent
Mark talks about nepotism and and the absence of coachability and referability.
Jim says he won’t refer people just because they ask or are family or friends
Jim shares a story about another kid who he had to stop helping because he wasn’t coachable
Jim asks Mark for examples from his recruiting profession
Mark talks about coaching people in the interview process and the topics of compensation and setting expectations at the end of the interview
Jim laughs at how many people disregard his advice
Mark says polite persistence is a positive attribute
Jim talks about the power of questions and listening way more than you talk 80/20
Mark completely agrees and says opened ended are the way to go
Mark also says questions are the best way to disagree with someone too
Jim takes us back to the kid at the wedding and says he manifested his beautiful life by being coachable, referable and persistent
Mark says these skills are lifelong and we should constantly work on getting better
Jim shares his story about working with patent attorneys
He emphasizes the importance of working with great clients
Removing the friction
Mark shares his story about changing auto mechanics and why we pay experts that know stuff we don’t know
Jim shares his perspective about his gardener and how is so referable and never lets Jim down. He is ultimately referable
Mark shares the feeling of satisfaction of having referred someone and having that person come through
Be more coachable, be referable and be persistent
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Mark introduces the topic of self identity in the context of how people feel their story about who they are and what they do
Jim chimes in with a story about the event he attended that generated our topic for today
At the event they did a “speed dating” like exercise where one of the questions was “what do you do?”
Cool story. Jim found that changed his answer as he learned by practicing with 40 or 50 people
He identified as a podcaster and found that people were very interested in his podcasting story
His other favorite question was “what is the best advice you’ve ever received?”
“Water your own grass”. Grass always looks greener…
Mark liked it because it makes you think
Jim also found that when asked, most people were happy doing what they were doing
Mark has found otherwise in his recruiting and staffing career
Both guys suspect it might be circumstantial
Mark talks about his perspective based on his staffing experience
Mark reflects on asking yourself that question…what do you do and then says most people struggle with answering and provide little to no context
Jim shares the wrinkle that everyone was on the clock. They had 5 minutes to answer…speed dating…
Jim proposes that he and Mark try the exercise on themselves. Both guys struggle and have fun with the exercise. What do you do for money…or just what do you do
Mark talks about being asked for a bio and the fear and confusion that request drums up
Jim shares that he has begun to identify as a “podcaster”. “It’s part of who I am”
Both guys agree that podcasting has made them better at everything else they do
Jim talks about what he does as projects. I do projects
Mark describes himself as a teacher, coach, agent
Jim asks Mark what he does and Mark answers and the guys go back and forth
Jim likes the word “agent” and feels that everyone needs an agent
Mark says objectivity is critical in being an effective agent
Jim says it also depends on who is asking the question
Mark likes the speed dating concept. Time is ticking
Mark begins all of his consulting with “what do you do”. He likes “what does that mean”. He tells his story about helping his girlfriends daughter
Mark thinks people don’t practice their story because we think it’s our story and we can obviously tell their own story. Jim brings up the value of having an agent again
Mark thinks anybody you can trust can be helpful, but Jim thinks we should stay away from friends and family
Mark says it’s critical to be paying someone for advice because skin in the game makes a difference
Both guys also think context is critical
Mark shares his technique for crafting a good story in three parts. The long story (interview), the elevator pitch and the tag line
Jim shares that he gravitated to the word “inventor”. I’m an inventor…
Jim critiques Mark’s response and Mark shares the evolution of his story identity
Professional development is where he arrived
Jim shares his story/identity evolution
Mark also likes the idea of putting people on the clock when crafting their story
Jim shares the judgement he felt at the start and gained confidence as he practiced
Jim makes a great point about the importance of how people introduce you to strangers. How would describe me to others?
Mark loves the speed dating idea to kick off a networking event
Mark recommends crafting and polishing your story for everyone
He recommends shooting for clarity
Jim talks about his father and his professional story. Mark does the same and talks about their generation how they were discouraged to brag about themselves
Jim says we live in a different time now where everyone seems to be building a brand
Mark talks about the self doubt monster pops up
Mark ends with a suggestion about focusing on clarity and recording yourself
Jim says get comfortable with your words and certainty. It’s not a one man job
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Mark introduces the topic of friendships between men and shares how it came from our friend Jeff’s annual golf outing
He connects it to the wheel and the Harvard study of men which concludes that men thrive based on the number and depth of their friendships
Jim appreciates the fact that we’re coming up on 60 episodes
He shares his opinion of male relationships. How they change over time and how guys used to do things with only other men
Jim talks about how some friendships ships die out and others go away and come back
Mark brings up how his mentor and he lost touch for 2t years and recently reconnected. He says time is a challenge
Mark brings up his recent meeting with one of his best friends…who hates Donald Trump
Jim has a friend who feels the same way
They talk about disagreement versus personal insult
Mark reinforces the mission of the podcast - a place for men to talk about anything
Jim says technology has isolated and divided us and we’re all starving for human interaction
Jim says boys play and girls pretend and the guys talk about competition and dopamine. What happens when things come to an end
Mark talks about how we all have hardships in common over time and how helpful it is to have others to talk to about the hard stuff
Jim brings up alignment. Mind body and spirit calibrated…How important it is for him to start his day doing thing to calibrate and align himself
Mark talks about his morning routine and reflects back on his meet up with his buddy
Jim brings up the law of attraction and the “coincidence” of his mentor reentering his life
Mark brings up his relationship with God
Both guys reflect on their friends gold outing and how much realignment took place then
Jim tells a story about a recent consulting gig client and an aligned text message exchange
Mark says when you put in the work, coincidences occur
We move people with energy and it can be positive or negative
Mark tells a story about walking away from a friendship
Jim chimes in about walking away and self awareness
Mark talks more about the friendship he walked away from
Jim reminds us how important it is to be around positive people
Mark brings up happiness and fulfillment in the context of needing to reconnect with a couple of friends. . There is risk of disappointment. Mark shares a friend story of redemption
Mark talks about how he was lacking during his divorce. Jim gives Mark credit for the self reflection
Both guys agree to reconnect with 2 old friends as a challenge to everyone
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Mark Introduces the topic for this episode - Traditions. He contextualizes it as connected to worldview as traditions are often cultural. The guys arrived at the topic talking about Jim’s annual high school football team barbecue he holds at his house and has for 17 years in a row
Jim also connects it to our childhood where our worldview begins to form
Jim shares his appreciation for what the football program did for him. He thinks that without football it
Very easily could have been bad - prison like his two cousins
He goes on to tell the story of how it all started - an incredible story
And a book called “The Season Of Life” which spoke to the issue of building men for others
Tradition, continuity , belonging and creating an environment to thrive
Jim talks more about how successful the program has been now that many former players have come back to coach and participate
And how beneficial the whole program has been in the wider circle of people who are touched by the program
Mark supports the notion of tradition and real masculinity…not toxicity. Way more than just football
Jim talks about the timing and the spirit and the excitement. It brings everyone together for a common cause
Mark talks about how men are shaped at an early age. Good choices or bad choices. The importance of a mentor and how difficult life is without one
Jim shares his perspective of living in a 1% area and driving to the 99% area and the difference in access to resources and support. He shares his appreciation for learning how to compete
Then he talks about how this competitiveness is helpful in life in general. Unity and camaraderie
50% divorce rate and how many boys grow up without a father…how important the football coach becomes in that situation
Jim thinks we’ve forgotten young men and even emasculated them
Mark agrees that Jim’s life could have really gone south
Jim talks about how many different roles there are in making this tradition stick and then flourish
He then talks about the importance of belonging to something
Mark talks about pushing back on human nature and how important it is to NOT do that, particularly in regard to masculinity
Jim talks about the goal of the program and shares stats on graduation rates and the trouble that creates. Kids that participate in sports graduate at much higher rates
He’s preparing young men for the last whistle and the last bell. We’re not preparing them for life
Mark talks about his career and coaching his own kids after high school. Then he brings up Mike Rowe and the trades
Jim reflects on his high school graduation and the massive shift and void
Mark shares his high school experience in contrast to Jim’s. Winning and losing is infectious/contagious
Jim tells his “Nobody runs on Hayward” story
Mark talks about his family tradition around military and fighter pilots
Mark puts Jim’s program in perspective of how impactful it is
Jim shares the two messages he delivers to the kids at the barbecue. Showing up and “no rules” no incident speech. The power of trusting and empowering back. The following morning his talk is about showing up and being prepared and “Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better”. Boys blame others, men take responsibility. Be so good they can’t ignore you. It’s not what happens to you, it’s how you respond to what happens to you
Mark appreciates the work and Jim talks about how deep these relationships have grown
Jim feels that the best players aren’t always the most successful. It’s the second stringers
Mark thinks the more talented you are, the less likely you are to work hard
Belonging, routine, structure, hierarchy and honor. If you don’t get this in one place, you’ll find it somewhere else. He mentions gangs
Mark encourages listeners to seek out opportunities to help young men
Jim brings up Scott Galloway and his work with young men
Mark mentions example of places to go to help young men
Jim recommends the progress and trust are built up over time. What you can do immediately is help the coaches. Thank them. Bring a team meal. Little gestures go a long way
Mark shares his experience working with homeless kids for three years
You might even get more out of the experience than the kids
Jim ends with leaving the public side of this work and went off the radar
Mark says your efforts need to be authentic to be effective
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Mark starts off with some context about what our podcast is all about. Sharing opinions and experiences with men to help them live a more fulfilled life
He introduces the topics of self-regret and self narrative and hopes for some humorous angles
Jim brings up the wheel and how we always start with self awareness
He talks about the power of reading the definitions. He says if you don’t have regrets you aren’t very self aware “the most important conversation you’ll ever have is the one you have with yourself”
Mark says regret and a bad narrative can eat you alive if you aren’t aware of it’s power. He says seeking blame is regressive
Jim talks about learning from regrets and mistakes. It’s not what happens to you, it’s how you respond to what happens to you. I’d rather die trying than live with the regret of not trying
Mark says it’s a balancing act between self awareness and misery. Your inner voice is powerful…one way or another
Jim shares how he is often angry at himself and tries to be careful not protecting that on others
Mark shares the work he’s doing on his own narrative around his future self and how at ease he feels. His friends have noticed
Mark shares his regret about not firing his divorce attorney sooner
Jim asks to break it down and offers his own story…helping someone else instead of himself
Mark gives his example about multiple choice quizzes in school
Mark shares how scared and angry he was during his divorce and how it clouded his judgement
Jim calls it trauma - flight, fight or freeze
Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better
Jim cites opportunities exist in the learning from the regret or mistake
Mark shares some sports related regrets and how easy it would have been to hang on.
Jim shares his opinion about sports in his life
They both share the cultures they were around. Jim’s as winning and Mark’s was losing
Jim talks about asking for help, not asking, asking the wrong people…
Mark puts his divorce in perspective and see’s the wonderful side of it - his three kids
Mark shares his formula for a solid self narrative
If you want to be successful, notice your successes
The guys agree that we have a hard time noticing our success
Jim talks about gratitude
Meditation and living in the present
Mark share his morning meditation today and he was all over the place but able to come back to present
Mark shares a conversation with his younger brother about his divorce regarding how well he handled it
Jim quotes - All comparison leads to misery
Mark talks about how comparison is in your face now all day thru social m media. You have to be careful
Jim talks about being cautious about putting yourself out there on social media
Nobody really wants to know how good you’re doing
Mark talks about observations and assessment not what you’ve done
Jim says people remember how you make them feel and Reminds us that it’s better to be kind than nice
Jim tells a story about his friend regarding…has the world changed or is it the stage of life we are at. We’re running out of time and you don’t want to waste it on people with bad energy…or politics
Mark agrees it’s both. What he sees missing today is accountability
People are doing things wrong today and not getting in trouble
Mark ends with “I don’t know waaayyy more than I know”
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Mark introduces the topic and explains that he and Jim will be guided in this episode by an article Jim read in Fast Company. Here’s a link to the article
Mark suggests personal branding begins with self reflection
Jim enters with reference to the self and self promotion in specific. He shares his opinion about self promotion and how society feels very different about personal branding. Then he takes us around the flywheel and the 5 areas of life
Then Jim focuses in on worldview and asks whether one’s worldview should be part of a personal brand
Mark shares his views about being entrepreneurs and personal brands. He says he’s always branded himself and presented to the world his personal strengths. He tells a story about his last employer who purchased his company told him not to sell himself, but to sell her brand. He expands on his view of this
Jim starts to share the main points of the article which are common myths about personal branding
#1 is that it’s selfish
Both guys share that they were raised not to brag and self promote
If we don’t brand ourselves then we get branded by others.
Mark tells his story about breaking out from imposter syndrome and his journey into branding himself
#2 It’s loud and obnoxious. Mark talks about his sales journey and helping people sell themselves
Jim cites the choices of being an influencer or a thought leader. Mark has chosen thought leader and shares his position on selling
Jim says he’s recently committed to his own personal brand
#3 It’s fake and disingenuous. Mark talks about how he was raised to be polite and respectful and being authentic
#4 It’s only for senior leaders and C suite executives. Both guys agree that this is no longer the case. Mark talks about a current client and the team he is working with
Jim reads a bit from the article
Mark goes back to worldview and shares his opinion on sharing his politics online as part of his brand
Jim shares his view of bringing politics into any conversation with someone outside his circle of friends…particularly here in Northern California
Mark goes into his politics and says either way is ok if you’re prepared for the consequences. He’s decided to go all in and be transparent about his views and how he responds with what he thinks is practical
The guys disagree on this issue
Jim thinks it’s not worth discussing politics with those on the fringe, right or left
Mark takes a different stance
Mark wishes everyone, including Trump would stop calling people names..it’s childish
Jim agrees and says it was funny and now it’s sad
Mark doesn’t care about the person, but only what they stand for
Mark talks about the power of questions and his experience speaking civily with people who are opposed to his views
Mark runs around the wheel again in the context of how he begins client sessions with deep personal questions
Jim identifies that Mark spent his entire career helping people grow their personal brand
Jim is curious about Mark’s experience with this
Mark frames it in the context of aligning the candidates worldview and the company culture
Mark share his story about the prospect with the BLM LinkedIn profile banner
The guys have a chuckle
Mark talks about how important a LinkedIn profile is in the personal branding journey
Jim asks Mark who should help you write your LinkedIn profile
Mark shares his answer
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Mark introduces the topic of expectations. Setting and managing them with others
We succeed and we fail doing both
He says we do a poor job of being specific and clear and recalibrating as things evolve
Jim says ww are “wound up” in the existing political environment. We expect the politicians to be civil and honest…and they’re not. They throw rocks at each other
Mark identifies that he and Jim have taken different position. Jim chooses to remain quiet and Mark chooses to speak up. He cites the difference between thinking, knowing and emoting. We are treating them as the same
Jim takes us around the wheel and our 5 areas of life and how different women and men are regarding expectations
Mark talks about his relationships with his grandmothers and how different they were. Then he talks about his mom and sister
Then he talks about his kids
Jim shares that everyone struggles with expectations. We project things from our relationships on to others. He also thinks we have set expectations about women that they can “have it all”. It’s not possible
Mark says when you choose one thing you sacrifice another. No one can “have everything”. It’s an unreal expectation
Mark talks about his daughters and his mom again. His mom lived with regret and his girls struggle with confusion…what is a man? What is the expectation?
He brings up JD Vance and his cat lady comment. He asks what is wrong with being a stay at home mom? We need to change our expectations about being a mom
Jim brings up Esther Perel and her writings about relationships. She says our expectations about relationships are incorrect
Mark talks about having different expectations inside a marriage
Jim says where we are now in marriages has evolved away from the way it used to be. Married to one person and in a romantic relationship with another. Marriage was a contract
Mark says expectations change and we have to change behavior. He shares some info on his marriage/divorce. He talks about his ex wife’s father and her expectations of him based on her father’s behavior
Mark says things broke down when communication stopped
Jim asks Mark about his current relationship with his girlfriend
They talk about men and women and their differences. In a relationship what matters is what those two people think about. Most people don’t take the time to air out their differences before marriage and exchange/agree to the compromises
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Mark introduces the topic of immigration and draws a thick line between legal and illegal immigration. He’s very pro immigration and very much opposed to illegal immigration. He says there are many different lenses to look through at this issue
Jim jumps in and identifies that this topic falls into worldview on our flywheel. He mentions that Europe and in particular Italy are wrestling with open borders too. It’s impacting culture and religious beliefs. Jim has seen this while traveling
Mark agrees and brings up his brother who has been flying as for 35 years. He mentions Paris specifically
Jim agrees and doesn’t remember Paris being like this years ago. Crime, homelessness and garbage
Mark thinks we abuse the word compassion and distinguishes between those that are fleeing bad circumstances and those who are criminals
Jim takes it even further and suggests that illegals are stealing our resources while legal immigrants and citizens suffer. Jim shares that California just passed a law giving free healthcare to illegals. What about us?
Mark shares that Jim’s experience comes from international travel around his sports background. Mark helped many immigrants with visas and green cards during his staffing career
Mark gives more context to his experience. Legal immigrants are the most opposed to illegal immigration
Jim talks about his grandparents and how they strived to be American first, Mexican and Italian second. He also says that culture might come with them, but not necessarily religion. Some are escaping religious persecution
Mark mentions that we all came here escaping persecution from British rule. He says crime is now increasing in non border towns and if say anything about illegal immigrant crime you’re called a racist
Mark also mentions his two worst trends coming from this beyond crime. Sex trafficking and Fentanyl
Jim asks to take the conversation positive and asks Mark to share his immigration experience helping immigrants who wanted to stay get visas and eventually green cards
Mark goes into great detail about a program he ran helping graduates from other countries get jobs and financial assistance with their green cards after 3 years
Both guys agree that these immigrants have strong appreciation for America and are n to shy about showing it
Both guys agree “we don’t have a country without them”
Then the guys move into a discussion about what happens when you give free stuff to illegal immigrants…or anyone for that matter
Mark connects the entitlement issue with defunding police and liberal DAs..recipe for disaster
Jim pulls the conversation back to positive and Mark tells the story about a new home being built right next to him and his positive interaction with the crew. All immigrants
Jim brings up the Irish in the first part of the 20th century and Mark, being from Boston chimes in
He brings up the notion of people (legal an d illegal) who are “well intentioned”
Mark says we should figure out who is well intoned and whose not earlier in the process and then asks, if Trumps wins, how’s he gonna get the criminals out. Also how many legal immigrants can we absorb fro a resources standpoint. Then brings up the condition of the “sanctuary cities” and how over run they are now…oops
Mark bring back up his experience in Boston with the Italians and Irish communities
Jim suggest that kids born here of illegal parents.. What do we do with the kids. It’s a tough topic to figure out
Mark says both sides need to talk, even if only about the Fentanyl and the kids
Jim then tells his two immigration stories about a few people he helped and their circumstances
One was a girl from Venezuela and her friend who came here illegally as a kid so he has no papers and thus cannot travel outside the country
The other was about the captain of the USA Olympic rugby 7’s team who Jim helped get papers so he could leave the country
He then remembers a third story helping some Tongan kids with papers who as a result couldn’t get scholarships. Both ended up playing D1 and degrees
Mark says the bottom line, the system is broken and we’re not doing anything other than fighting over it
Ellis Island comes up as an example of a decent system
Jim notes that we’re not having enough babies and the system doesn’t work without enough people. Immigrants really help with this problem
Both guys agree that both sides of the aisle seem to want to keep this a their own blunt intstrument in the political races
Jim exposes the Democrat’s “immigration” bill that the Republicans didn’t sign it…it was full of Ukraine money
Mark says conflict sells ads and likes.
Mark ends with this is complex, but it needs to b e fixed
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Mark introduces the two topics for today and how closely they are connected
Self accountability and life changing events
The Trump assassination attempt and the selection of his VP running mate
Mark reminds the audience of the fly wheel framework and the idea that both guys lean conservative. Mark more so than Jim
Jim jumps in ands goes into more detail about the wheel and the 5 areas of life
Jim identifies the Trump assassination as clearly a life changing event
Jim thinks self awareness is by far the most important human trait there is. He feels like if you are self aware, it’s highly likely you’ll be happier and more fulfilled
Mark describes Trump’s new attitude…calmer, less brazen. Jim agrees. Mark says the event triggered an analysis of self accountability. A complete absence of it
Mark says an event of this magnitude will remain under scrutiny for a while and hopefully time and context will bring truth. The investigation is ongoing. He cites the statement by the head of the Secret Service…”the buck stops with me”
Jim redirects toward the current administration and expresses his frustration with their complete lack of performance
Mark suggest that the Biden admin team is now having their hypocrisy thrown back in their faces
Mark cites his research of the statements of 4 or 5 special forces snipers that leads him to conclude this was one of two things…the government was in on it, or the Secret Service is broken
Jim says he wants accountability for the lie that is the mental condition of Joe Biden…the years and months leading up to the shooting
Mark says the depth and breadth of this deception is unique
Jim talks about the debate, subsequent interviews and the cover up
Even the media and others who have come out with the current truth have not acknowledged their previous lies
Mark says the rats are running at each other
Mark brings up JD Vance and shares some things he’s learned about him. Mark is looking forward to learning more
Jim says he’s not a “Trumper”…but he thinks JD represents the best of America and stands on his merits, not his collar or gender
Mark shares some more details with Jim about JD. He went to law school with Viviek R
Vance is also military and business savvy
Marks it seems that he’s the real deal
Mark shares Elon Musk’s recent claim to be giving millions to the RNC campaign
Mark shares that he’s not a Republican, he’s a pragmatist
Jim shares his family’s different positions on Trump. He feels like if you put the man aside and talk policy, it’s a no brainer
Jim’s looking forward to the fresh new talent and he gives Trump credit for not selecting based on skin color or gender. He also speaks about Trump’s fortitude
He brings up RFK Jr and his most recent new security detail
Jim ask’s Mark about his own life changing events and Marl shares a few of his…funny
Little league, getting in to Notre Dame and nodding a scholarship on his dad’s behalf
Then Jim shares a few of his “events”. The “I can’t” story, getting embarrassed reading in front of the class, high school football and his community college rejection
Mark responds to Jim’s responses to his events and how it built his fortitude and resilience. Showing up and being prepared
Marks says personal accountability leads to happiness and fulfillment..authenticity
We give people second chances all the time, but people still look for blame
Mark says life is a meritocracy. DEI comes up and Mark says it’s falling apart. The ex president needed to almost die for this to be exposed
Jim shares his distaste for victimhood. Why do these victims choose to give their power away? He blames Biden and his cronies for this, in pursuit of power and control
Mark praises Trumps response to being shot and how the choice for president is a no brainer
Mark says the ships starting to turn faster
Who is going to claim responsibility or get caught
Jim ends with Biden being the victim. Mark says there is nothing authentic about him
Think about something you can take responsibility for today…it’ll make you feel better about yourself
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Mark starts off setting the stage for his most recent ex-wife encounter. Both guys see numerous lessons to be learned from Mark’s encounter the other day and decided to record their conversation as an episode
Mark sets the stage for the discussion by giving the event some historical context
He describes his emotional state and gives a few details of the actual event - sitting in front of a judge
Jim makes a great point - one of the reasons w decided to air this is that 50% of our audience will have to deal with divorce in some capacity - we thought it might be very helpful
Jim starts by going around the wheel and this event touches all 5 areas and the center (self)
Mark adds a timeline and additional historical context to the core event - his divorce
Jim brings up narcissism and they discuss that component of Mark’s ex
Mark says you can’t change people. He talks about her unwillingness to look inside
He also makes the point that you have to rid yourself of people who suck energy from you and how challenging that can be
Jim thinks we can’t change much except how we react to things
They both bring our current political situation into the discussion because it’s directly related
Mark reflects on good and bad energy and the physical manifestation of this stress
Jim takes Mark around the wheel
Money - how she used money as a weapon
Mark shares details of what she did to his career and a story about theft
Mark shares some details about his children and their struggle with anxiety. We work on it together
Worldview is next. Mark talks about his connection with God and his religious journey
Jim brings up Mark’s relationship with his mom, which he’s shared before
Jim says we are “conditioned” when we’re young. Mark shares his thoughts on his mom and the comparison to his ex.
Mark shares a story about his ex and her inability to accept responsibility for anything. If you agreed with me you immediately became her enemy
Jim asks how much was “attention”
Mark suggests the marriage fell apart because of her inability to accept responsibility or communicate
Mark brings up his ex’s childhood - very bad
Jim brings up a woman’s relationship with her own father
Mark compares his ex and his current love regarding their relationships with their fathers
Mark talks about self accountability and owning your life
Jim brings back politics and society as it relates to Mark’s ex
Jim brings our current president into the discussion.
Mark says he’s not in charge. He’s not sure if Biden knows what’s going on
Jim asks what audacity and is she just that
Mark shares his opinion on how good marriages get through hard times
They worked on themselves first
Jim shares how he’s worked on himself and how he shares our framework in his daily conversations
Mark shares how he never gave up and how his children helped him
Mark shares his Bill Burr’s “hitting women” joke
Mark starts to wrap up and shares some takeaways
Internal work and modifying his routines with age to keep up the work
You have to get negative people out
Life is good. Everything is a choice
You can’t change people
Jim says gratitude is the key and it takes work
Mark agrees and shares his gratitude exercise
Jim bring up growing bitter or better
Mark ends with his LinkedIn message story (she sent one after) and Jim notes that she was doing all the things she was accusing Mark of
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Mark introduces the topic of mentorship
Jim reflects on the difference between being nice and kind. Real mentorship requires telling people things they need to hear but maybe don’t want to. He refers to some of the work Mark is doing, in part holding people accountable. Jim says showing up, prepared and consistently is huge
Mark agrees. He brings in communication and how social media and technology have revolutionized the way we communicate…and not for the better. Mark says people are confused about accountability and compassion.
Jim says it’s easier to be critical online than face to face. Mark agrees enthusiastically
Mark asks Jim to share the story that shared before the recording that prompted the topic of mentorship
Jim shares his recent encounter with a young man he’s known for 15 years and has mentored. How their interactions have evolved with some tough honesty. It started 15 years ago with a golf tournament and ended up raising #240,000,000 to rebuild three high school athletic facilities
He suggests that even the coaches need coaches. He reflects on mentoring kids for the last Beelzebub’s and the last whistle. How important sports are for teaching kids about life. He’s now able to see kids from 15 years ago become men. Mark marvels at Jim’s impact
Jim reflects on the political components of his mentorship and also that anyone can do anything they want in this country if they learn how to compete
Mark reflects on his feeling of obligation to be kind in the moment when you encounter anyone. That a small gesture or comment can change someone’s life
Jim agrees and reminds us this holds true for people closest to us as well. Jim says its the mans job to step up and be the bad guy. He asks Mark about this in the context of his divorce
Mark talks about disagreeing kindly with his daughters and how that increases their respect for him. He says “no” is one of the most important words a parent can use for 16 or so years:)
Jim brings up another quote, “I’d rather be feared than liked” and then he adds the context what is meant by the word “feared”
Mark shares the origin of “being feared” in his opinion…the Bible
Jim agrees and then contextualizes his spirituality
Mark attributes a saying to Jordan Peterson about living by the Ten Commandments even without believing in God
Mark reflects on his current client and how he works closely with people personally. In doing so he’s uncovered how many things that young people don’t know and how important sharing wisdom while mentoring them
Jim agrees and adds that this I also exaggerated by how much information is coming at us today versus years ago. So much info coming SO fast
Mark explains how he vets things in the current noisy environment
Jim brings up the recent presidential debate…can you blame them (the young) for being confused
Mark says he hopes it will wake people up who have been swallowing the nonsense from “whoever you are” and start to questions those in power
Jim piles on and Mark says “If you didn’t see that for what it was, shame on you”
He asks Jim again to tell his story about the young man he recently met with to reset their relationship with candor. He identifies with this young man’s full plate, but also how capable he is. They met for dinner to address their relationship. Jim used our wheel and brought up being your best self. He shares details about his students responsibilities and challenges. He was kind and not nice. Jim shares his recognition about getting older and “running out of time” and how his program is now beginning to bring in even younger kids and it’s really working…now with 15 years of evidence
Mark observes that this approach has ripple effects
Jim is appreciative of Mark’s perspective, in particular, the families of these young kids
He then brings up his annual cookouts at his house and how they haven’t missed one in 15 years and how the kids benefit from this shrining example of consistency and continuity
Jim then reflects on growing up where he did and with whom he did and how it shaped his work ethic and his own approach to showing up
Mark shares hi story about his son coming out of addiction, blossoming and the notion of him being a role model. The importance of modeling in mentorship
Jim gets clear on how important it is to have an agent. Everybody needs one to see things they can’t
Jim reflects on when he and Mark first met to map the IMC plan out. He mentions
The guys reflect o a program they both participated in over the weekend and the phrase “don’t die with your music inside you” and how we have an obligation to share what we know
The guys are building a program and it isn’t quite done yet, but it will definitely be some wisdom shared for a price
Our service will be essentially customizing our experience and wisdom to help men lead better lives
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Mark introduces the topic - apologizing. He says too many people are apologizing too often
Mark reads the definition
Jim counters with thinking it’s a trigger for him. He brings up a conversation he just had with a 30 something and how he said he was sorry over and over…to the point that it was totally inauthentic
He was regretting things he said and did
Mark agrees about authenticity being critical. He says too many people apologize for offending groups
Jim says “This not an excuse, it’s an explanation”. I’d like to explain what happened
The difference between an apology and an explanation
Mark says context is missing from conversation
Jim says you should save apologies for when you really mean them. When you’ve reflected and given thought to what you may have said or done
Mark says if the apology doesn’t feel difficult, then don’t do it. It needs to feel difficult
Jim ponders when to accept or not accept an apology. He is anticipating a call later today with a friend who is in an overwhelming state. This guy says sorry too much and Jim wonders whether to confront his friend or not. He wonders if h should let his friend “get away with it
Mark says it’s important to start off conversation on a positive note and then get candid, but with kindness
It’s approach and timing
Mark rereads the definition of apology. Definition number 3…excuses
Jim thinks apology is different than an explanation and different than an excuse
Jim appreciates when people take responsibility and also consider how to keep this same thing from happening again. An opportunity to get better
People that say sorry all the time are dangerous. Our word is everything. Our integrity
Jim thinks social media and technology have made communication m ore difficult…ironically
Mark talks about how many words have lost their meaning. Racism and Nazi and sorry
Jim recounts a Father’s Day event about the racism comment. He says,” tell me what you think that means”. Both guys agree that we need to be more careful with words and make sure both parties agree on the meaning of words before discussing them
Mark brings up patriarchy as another word being abused
Jim adds the word “literally’. Mark agrees it’s a “filler” word, unnecessary and irrelevant
He adds the accountability that’s missing in communication. You have to call out these abusers of words
Mark brings up the phrase “toxic masculinity” and how people want apologies for this too. Mark says “fuck that”
Mark talks about people in the public domain who are forced to apologize
Jim asks Mark to look up “dignity” and the guys both agree that apologizing without authenticity forces someone to give up his dignity
Mark brings up the leadership training he’s doing now and how much of an issue this apology thing is in corporate America. Jim agrees
Mark suggests that the person on the receiving end of the apology needs to call out inauthentic apology
Jim says there are situations when you just have to remain quiet or you’ll get “kicked out of the club”
Mark says it’s important to pick your spots. What am I going to gain from calling someone out? You gotta read the room and you have to maintain your integrity
Give some thought to what you are trying to accomplish. Be authentic and work toward some type of benefit or progress
Jim says sometimes it’s tough to balance authenticity with empathy
Mark talks about people misinterpreting him and then brings up the exception of his two daughters. Jim calls him on it they have a laugh
Jim brings back up the importance of the meaning of words. Both guys agree that clarifying what a word or topic means before discussing it is critical for clarity
Mark goes back to his daughters and uses the word feminism as an example
Jim says the meaning of words can be generational. Mark agrees there is nuance to the meaning of certain words
Mark brings up Juneteenth and both guys have fun making fun
He says he sees a trend where we’re teaching people that being over sensitive makes you better person somehow
Both guys are put off by the victimhood connect to the apology issue
Mark says the media portrays a different world than the one he lives in
Jim talks about some of the things we can apologize to ourselves about
Mark thinks it’s more about forgiving yourself and then they put things in the context of career
The guys bring in the 5 areas of life from the wheel and Jim talks specifically about money
Jim also says that some people simply expect to be forgiven. They think they’ll get a “pass”
Both guys agree we should apologize less and pause to think before we apologize
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Mark introduces the topic of self doubt
He places it in health/mental health category on the wheel
Mark talks about waking up “awash” in self doubt yesterday and he wrote about it to help pull him out of it
First he went through with his morning routine and was still bummed out..so he wrote about it
Jim says self doubt is normal and anyone who doesn’t get it every so often isn’t striving
Jim talks about how middle age produces doubts about what might have been
Jim shares his bout with depression and then brings in the wheel and how self doubt touches all areas of life
Mark says it can be event driven and he mentions his divorce and brings up other circumstances
Jim connects self worth to self doubt
The guys talk about moving on…moving past it
Mark brings up sports and aging
Jim mentions how players become coaches to keep getting that dopamine hit
Jim says leaving a company has the same impact
Mark brings up empty nest syndrome and then identifies his solution is internal. Looking inside and not focusing on external circumstances
Jim says that you can’t care too much about what other people say
Mark talks about learning how to be humble and the rebuilding that can take place if you choose it
Jim says in order to be human you to have humility…then you can serve others with empathy and compassion. These are better humans
Mark talks about judging people by the way they present outwardly. He mentions the PGA pro that recently killed himself
A lot of people who are miserable, present as happy
Mark says we see 2 things in the media…tragedy and overbite success. We never see the striving. The work
Jim’s quote “I wish my enemies all their success”. Because is you achieve major success, you have sacrificed a lot. Everything has a price
Success can be lonely
Mark tells his father’s Navy wings story. WTF do I do now
Same thing as retirement - want to stop using that term. It’s negative instead of…what’s the next awesome thing
Jim brings up “rebranding”. More possible than ever before. Technology and coaching
Rebranding is a total choice
Mark brings back up empty nest. Jim says he didn’t experience that. Everyone experiences this differently
Mark talks about his unique experience being both mom and dad…he didn’t see it coming
Mark says self doubt is the absence of self worth
Jim brings up ego. You have to put ego aside and that’s not easy. Being alone…no more feedback
Mark wonders why Jim didn’t feel the empty nest
Mark explains how he forgave himself and how freeing it was. If God forgives, why can’t we forgive ourselves
Jim talks about the self - words
Mark reads the definitions of self doubt and self compassionate
Mark talks about looking inward and not comparing to others…misery
Jim says happiness is overrated. Being fulfilled is better
Learning new things and striving to be better is the way to go
Mark suggests taking your new found humility…turning it into empathy and reaching out to help
Timing has to align in order to be well received with your offer of help
Jim summarizes his position on "recalibrating the soul"
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