Remembering Dr. Wallace J Nichols: Blue Mind: Exploring the Water-Brain Connection

8 jul 2024 · Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning

00:45:32

In this episode of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, host Andrea Samadi revisits a profound interview with Dr. Wallace J. Nichols, the author of the best-selling book "Blue Mind." Dr. Nichols delves into the fascinating connection between our brains and water, inspired by his extensive research and personal experiences.

Andrea reflects on Dr. Nichols' groundbreaking work, which explores how being near, in, on, or underwater can enhance our happiness, health, and overall well-being. This episode covers the origins of the Blue Mind theory, its scientific backing, and practical ways to apply it in daily life to combat stress, anxiety, and burnout.

As we honor Dr. Nichols' legacy, Andrea encourages listeners to practice Blue Mind, understand their personal connection to water, and extend this healing practice to others. Tune in to discover how the magical and mysterious connection to water can transform our lives.

On today's episode #338 we will revisit a previous interview #297[i] from last summer to remember the author of the best-selling book, Blue Mind, Dr. Wallace J. Nichols, who made such an impact on the world with his Blue Mind Movement, and is no longer with us today. While this is a difficult episode to write, I know it’s an important one as I could use the tips I know we are going to cover myself at the moment. I’m also sure there are others in the world who could benefit from revisiting the surprising science that shows how being near, in, on, or under water can make you happier, healthier more connected and better at what you do. I could have left this episode until a later date, even closed to World Blue Mind Day coming up July 23rd (later this month) as I stared at a blank document and the words just wouldn’t come out. Then when I finally did start writing, last month, the document was erased, so it just must not have been the right words. Or maybe this episode was meant to be written near the ocean as I’m sitting next to the Gulf of Mexico, while writing this. Or maybe even written from the point of view, of being under the water, looking around, and up, to “see” what can be felt deeply with this mysterious brain/mind connection.

Before sitting down to write this episode, I noticed sea turtles swimming around in the ocean, up close to us, and everyone mentioned how rare this was. I just kept thinking of Dr. Nichols telling me (in our interview this time last year) that he studied sea turtles for 30 years, and remembered him mentioning that he was hoping someone else more qualified (like Dr. Oliver Sachs) would write the book he wanted to write, connecting the deep mysterious ocean with the intricacies of our brain.

While revisiting our interview, I wondered:

What else could we learn from Dr. Nichols that we might have missed the first time? You know when you read a good book twice you always see something new. This is because you’ve changed since the first time, and you bring new experiences with you. I wonder what doors this second look would open for all of us?How can I improve my own Blue Mind Practice? Dr. Nichols mentioned that even if we are doing ok, practicing Blue Mind could still help us, but for those people who are in Red Mind (feeling anxious) this practice could save your life. It’s another tool to add to our tool kit to prevent us from reaching Grey Mind (or Burn out).How can revisiting this episode help others close to me (starting with my own family) helping them to practice Blue Mind in our daily lives? Also not being afraid of the hardest science in the room (our emotions) and keep talking openly about our feelings, and to not be afraid to reach out to others if we feel Red Mind or anxious thoughts.How can we highlight Dr. Nichols’ work so that we ALL can do what he suggests we do, by finding “our water, pay attention to how it feels and then take someone else with you” to experience the deep mysteries felt with this Blue Mind that’s backed by science.

Knowing our first interview was an important one, I watched the YouTube[ii] version for the third time this week, writing more notes on top of previous notes, to see if I could dig deeper into the meaning of the words of wisdom covered in our first interview.

Let’s go back and revisit this important interview with marine biologist and author, Dr. Wallace J Nichols, to see if we can take our own practice of Blue Mind, to the next level.

We opened up our interview when I recalled standing next to the bluest water I have ever seen in Turks and Caicos, last summer, 2023, just prior to our interview. I remember our bags were packed, and we were just leaving our hotel to return home, when I was introduced to Dr. Nichols, (via email) after experiencing some of the most “magical” memories that our family has ever felt, near the water. Dr. Nichols recalls those turquoise waters, saying he “knew them well” and we would return home as a family, not knowing we would ALL need Dr. Nichols’ Blue Mind Theory later this summer ourselves. It’s all easy to see these things looking backwards, but the dots had not connected forward yet, like Steve Jobs’ famous Stanford Commencement Speech.[iii]

I knew this was an important interview. For myself, as well as for others.

INTRO: We open up this interview with my introduction about Dr. Nichols, and how the foreword to his book, Blue Mind, was written by Celine Cousteau, one of the daughters of the great Jacques Cousteau who wrestles with explaining the “awe and wonder” of our oceans and waterways. She says “should we leave it, or dive in and explain it?” Jacques Cousteau would dive in, so she decides to do the same and says “it’s about reconnecting our sense of self and soul with our waterways and oceans. It’s about finding creativity, clarity, and confidence in our deep Blue Minds.” (Celine Cousteau) Next, I ask Dr. Nichols to share some of the meaning behind Celine Cousteau’s words in the Foreword, and he shared that she connected her background in psychology to her words.

Then I ask Dr. Nichols about how he made the brain/water connection and I loved his answer. He was hoping that someone else would publish Blue Mind. He searched all over the place for this book, Your Brain on Water, and pitched this book idea to Dr. Oliver Sachs, and he was told over and over again, that this is your book to write.

I understood why he kept looking for this book, from my point of view. I’m a former teacher, from Toronto, trying to make sense of how our brain impacts our future results, specifically as it relates to learning. I remember writing the idea of this podcast down, connecting Neuroscience to Social and Emotional Learning and almost hid this idea from others in the beginning. I’m not a neuroscientist, or anything –ist. But there was a time when I was told, just like Dr. Nichols, “you need to make the neuroscience/education connection” (and was handed a ton of books to read). I remember thinking “this is too hard for me” but I did it anyway. I was determined to learn more about our brain and learning, and paid people smarter than me to explain the concepts I couldn’t grasp. Slowly but surely, I began to understand how our brain learns something new.

Which is why I was so impressed when Dr. Nichols “wrote the book” anyway, connecting the nervous system (that we are still making deeper discoveries with) to largely unexplored bodies of water, like the ocean. He connected top neuroscientists, to those who understood the mysteries within the depths of the ocean. He says himself that it took him some time, explaining to me that he’s a marine biologist, who studied sea turtles for 30 years, and I understood what he was saying. He noted “I’m not a neuropsychologist, I just came in the side door.” He did the work needed to “put this theory together, because he knew he had to do this. What he created continues to gain momentum over the years. He started a movement, The Blue Mind Movement, with this book that he knew he had to write, and proved that we ALL can make the brain/water connection to become happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what we do.

Q1: I was amazed at the research held in the pages of this book. I had to ask how he did it, and the answer just blew me away. Dr. Nichols talked about how they held Blue Mind Summits where they would connect the leading experts in neuroscience, (like neuroscientist Howard Fields) to those who used these principles in their lives around water, like pioneering top wave surfer, (Jeff Clark) or those who used this magical connection to water to overcome addiction. They were asked one question that they each would answer from their specific point of view. Like making the connection with dopamine (in our brain) and surfing, something that had never been done before.

This is where true learning begins, almost like connecting peanut butter to chocolate to create the Reece’s Peanut Butter Cup. Even though Dr. Nichols mentioned that no one would fund this idea, he just knew it had to be done, and he did it.

He mentions Dr. Dan Siegel[iv] often in Blue Mind, and looked for anyone we knew the science to help make this brain on water connection.

Sometimes I forget what questions I ask on interviews. The questions just come out of me and if you know me, I’m like this in real life. I remember someone saying that meeting me for the first time was like a job interview. I’m so curious, and I will just ask you so many questions, you’d leave our conversation wondering “why so many questions?!” I forgot that I mentioned my fascination with surfing at the north shore of Hawaii to Dr. Nichols until I re-watched our interview. Hollywood really does Blue Mind well, with all the movies, bringing water to life, and television has mastered this topic. Until this weekend, I had no idea that the American animated tv series Spongebob was created by a marine scientist educator an animator, and was the highest rated Nickelodeon Series, and the most profitable, generating over $13B in merchandising revenue.[v] So why did Hollywood[vi] film and television producers see something that didn’t reach those who protect our oceans? This is what motivated Dr. Nichols to keep talking to those who could help him to make this brain/water connection. Since writing Blue Mind, Dr. Nichols’ mentioned there were hundreds more organizations dedicated to saving our oceans, but more work needs to be done here. I do feel a responsibility to continue to spread Dr. Nichols’ work, and keep his Blue Mind Theory in the forefront of our minds.

And by question 2, I was already asking Dr. Nichols “why am I mesmerized by the ocean?” and sharing how I felt a connection to the Billabong Pipe Masters section of the North shore in Hawaii. He looked at me with deep understanding, and it was here that I knew he understood what I was feeling, as I was starting to understand his Blue Mind Theory. I just couldn’t put it into words. There is something magical about being around water, and I’ve felt it for years.

Q2: I asked Dr. Wallace “Why are many people fascinated with the ocean and the “secrets it holds?” and he reassured me this was common, and he hears this all the time. I thought that if I felt this way, how many others listening also feel this fascination? When he said that “many people feel this way” and that “we are not alone” I felt my emotions coming through. Finally, someone telling me what I feel around water is common. I felt understood at a whole new level. He said “maybe everyone feels this connection” and it might not always be the ocean. It can be a puddle, or even frozen water! Now Dr. Nichols is catching my attention, and I can’t look away. As he listed all the sources of Blue Mind, my awareness is expanding. I had no idea there were so many ways to connect to water, and his words and calm voice were transporting me to what he called “virtual water.”

Now that we know what Blue Mind is, (it’s a feeling of fascination that we might all feel around water) how do we apply it and make use of it in our lives to become happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what we do?

Dr. Nichols directs us to STEP 1 of this process where he says that we must first of all understand our own Blue Mind. I know that I am more creative around water. I know my kids have always loved swimming in the ocean, or swimming pools. What about you? How do you feel around water? Have you ever stood mesmerized looking at water, or ice, or fog, and wondered what was capturing your attention? I hope that you feel some sort of reassurance that this is something Dr. Nichols would hear all the time. Now what’s next? What do we DO with this Blue Mind Theory?

STEP 2: Mindfully practice Blue Mind in your life. When you are in what Dr. Nichols calls RED MIND (anxious or super stressed) go to the water, get in the water, float on the water, sit by the water, read your book by the water. Practice this evidence-based method that can help transform you to a better place and make this a part of your “emotional tool-kit.”

Dr. Nichols had a goal to make this common knowledge to transform well-being and wellness, while also transforming our ability to protect these waters.

Q2B: Then it happened, and I no longer am afraid to “feel” deep emotions. It happens ALL the time when I’m connecting with others at the heart level, during interviews, (or in life) and I know Dr. Nichols could see it, let alone “feel” it. My eyes started to tear up, and I had to ask “Why do some of us feel so emotional around the water?” I knew he understood what I was trying to ask him. I loved his answer. He said “when we are in the water, we’re vulnerable. Our armor fades away. We access connection, curiosity, compassion, to each other, ourselves and to the water.” He reminded me that “It’s a place for reflection. Deep reflection. Deep thought.” I love when I feel comfortable enough to be my whole self with someone else. It’s an incredible place to be. No need to pretend, or hide, or be someone I’m not. Just exist and be 100% myself. This is how I feel around water, and this inspires my writing, deeper thoughts, and a desire to connect and learn.

Dr. Nichols reminds us that “water soothes the soul” and this is written in the King James version of the Bible, Psalms 23, written 3,000 years ago. Having a bad day, (he says) get down to the water, it will soothe your soul. This is a deeply ancient concept and Dr. Nichols explains the scientific connection to “why” this happens, in his book. His research goes deep into the water/brain connection.

We make some of our best memories on the water, near the water, with the people we care about. This is true! In your mind, think about the photos you take. How many photos do you have of those you love, that have water associated with them? It doesn’t need to be the deep blue ocean. It was be frozen water (ice) or even fog.

We have our deepest thoughts around water. I know this is true for me! It doesn’t have to be the bluest ocean. Sometimes, on rare cooler days while hiking in the mountains, we can see fog, and it always stops me in my tracks. I never thought of this as Blue Mind until reflecting on Dr. Nichols’ words.

We have our nostalgia around water.

We learn a lot. We reflect a lot.

Our world is simplified around water. Our brain shifts to a different place. A place that Dr. Nichols refers to as Blue Mind.

All of this opens us up to emotions. Sad things. Happy things. We grieve at the water. Many of us cry in the shower but don’t forget that “water soothes the soul” (Psalms 23).

Q3: I wondered what Dr. Nichols discovered when he measured his brain in the water, and his response showed me how far technology has come. They went from their prototype cap, with wires, to now where he said we can measure our brain waves without wires while surfing, kayaking, floating or swimming. I still would like to try this.

If you want to do your own research, go to Google Scholar and type “blue mind, blue health or blue space” into the search bar, to learn more.

Q4: Dr. Nichols explains what happens to our brain while swimming, vs floating, when we are still. He shares that Dr. Feinstein would say our brains can go into delta waves (much deeper than theta) when we are floating).

Standing by a lake will give us this “meditative” state, but most people who have not done this before, might not stay there for 2 hours. Or they might think that mediation is boring. To overcome this, Dr. Nichols suggest, that you can put a fishing pole in their hand, and they might stick around the lake just a bit longer than usual.

Q5: How do we use BLUE MIND to become more self-aware? Dr. Nichols explains that when we are in a crisis of any kind RED MIND (feel anxious, urgency) our thinking narrows and we might feel panic which is useful at times, (it can help us) but it can also (when it’s triggered all the time) lead us to GREY MIND and will eventually burn us out.

So we must learn to rest, relax, breathe to gain perspective. Learn to pause to see things from a new angle. Take a more compassionate approach and you might appreciate the opponent better or learn to understand yourself better. This helps with problem solving and thinking.

IMAGINATION:

When you can’t get to the water, think about water with your own imagination. We don’t need to go to that turquoise water on the other side of the world. Blue scription is doing blue mind wherever you are.

I explained to Dr. Nichols during our interview that we had left the deep blue ocean. When we returned home, I completely forgot about ALL of the types of water we have available to us in Arizona, where we say we are land locked. Dr. Nichols opened up my mind, and uncovered a way for anyone to find water.

He would begin with…

WILD WATERS:

Start with wild waters

A river, lakes, oceans

DOMESTIC WATER:

Pool tub spa showers

Put a candle in bathroom

URBAN WATER:

Fountains to sit or walk by

VIRTUAL WATER:

Poetry songs recordings of water apps

Make your own recording of videos, of water to replay later.

Reminding us that we ALL have an abundance of water, even those of us who think we are land locked.

Q7: When I asked Dr. Nichols about our emotions, or why many people prefer to leave them out of the conversation, he reminds me that “our emotions are the hardest science in the room.” The Science of Emotion is rigorous and complex. He’s now fully aware that the science backs up our emotional side, and knows when this side is ignored, is usually from people who just are not aware of the vast amounts of science behind our emotions. His answer made me feel more comfortable with the fact I know I can “feel” deeply, and to not be afraid of this. I will just keep learning, to understand this difficult science, and am grateful I had this once in this lifetime opportunity to sit down and speak with Dr. Nichols, who opened my awareness up to a whole new level.

Q8: When I asked Dr. Nichols about what has impacted him the most over the years with his study, it was all about helping others. I know his work and Blue Mind Theory can save someone’s life, if you are struggling with a RED mind yourself, (to find peace) and once you’ve gone from RED MIND to BLUE MIND yourself, reach your hand out help others to get through their day.

Dr. Nichols reminds us that we ALL know someone who is sitting on their couch not sure what the point is, and urges us to go find them and get them to water (of some sort) wherever it is. Take them fishing, he says. Go find your water

Practice blue mind ourselves first, and then take someone else with you

Reminding us that water gives us peace of mind and heart.

At the end of this interview, I felt a deep connection to Dr. Nichols, so much so, that when I stopped recording, I couldn’t stop the tears. I felt his heart, and years of work with his Blue Mind Theory, and was moved to such a deep level. He understood what I was feeling, and I didn’t need to explain why I was crying. I’m sure it wasn’t the first time that he felt that someone “really connect” with his work.

Looking back now, I’m just grateful that I let him see the true authentic me. Not one that is guarded, or afraid. I had no armor on, was vulnerable just like while floating in water, and Dr. Nichols’ BLUE MIND THEORY message came through loud and clear.

REVIEW AND CONCLUSION:

To review and conclude this review of our interview EP297 with Dr. Nichols last summer, I remind us to revisit Blue Mind Theory, no just this month, but every month, making it a part of our emotional tool kit. Every July 23rd is World Blue Mind Day, and I am committed to sharing Dr. Nichols’ work with new reflections each year.

I ask you, the listener, how do you connect to Dr. Nichols’ BLUE MIND THEORY?

When you feel RED MIND, what strategies do you have to move you back to peace and calm of BLUE MIND? Have you tried using the water for this?

I encourage everyone to read Blue Mind, and keep looking at the science. Keep practicing Blue Mind Theory.

STEP 1: Understand your BLUE MIND (what is YOUR Connection to being on near or in water)?

STEP 2: Practice BLUE MIND and finally, grab someone’s hand, and take them with you to water (where ever that might be). Dr. Wallace suggested fishing. I love swimming. What’s your favorite way to practice Blue Mind Theory?

For those of you who feel a deep connection to Dr. Nichols’s work, like me, I wanted to let you know that there is a verified Go Fund Me Page to help Dr. Nichols’ Foundation continue to raise funds to continue to raise awareness around the world. The Dr. Wallace J Nichols memorial fund was established to continue the work of one of the world’s most important environmentalists and change makers.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/nichols-memorial-fund

I’ll close out this episode with a reminder from Dr. Nichols book to keep learning and perfecting whatever Blue Mind is to you, with his final thoughts in our interview.

Q8: Hear from Dr. Nichols himself about what’s impacted him the most about the mystery within the ocean. While I can’t ever call up Dr. Nichols, and ask him for another interview, which is the sad part of this episode, I do believe that his legacy is an important one, and I will continue to reference and practice his Blue Mind Theory in my own life, as well as make connections back to his work in the future, so his work continues forward, helping others around the World, to find peace with this surprising science that shows how being near. In, on, or under water can make you happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what you do.

REFERENCES:

[i]Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Wallace J Nichols “Blue Mind” EP #297 https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/author-scientist-and-activistdrwallace-jnichols-on-blue-mind-the-surprising-science-that-shows-how-beingnear-inonor-underwatercanmakeyourhappier-h/

[ii] Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast YouTube Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Wallace J Nichols “Blue Mind” EP #297 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwx1jrHj33c&feature=youtu.be

[iii] Steve Jobs 2005 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc

[iv]Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Dan Siegel EP #28 on “Mindsight: The Basis for Social and Emotional Intelligence” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/clinical-professor-of-psychiatry-at-the-ucla-school-of-medicine-dr-daniel-siegel-on-mindsight-the-basis-for-social-and-emotional-intelligence/

[v] Sponge BobTV Series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants

[vi] Chasing Mavericks 2012 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1629757/

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Unlocking the Power of Presence: Neuroscience Meets Self-Leadership
20 jan· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome to Episode 354 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast! Join host Andrea Samadi as she concludes the 18-week self-leadership series with Grant Bosnick's revolutionary insights into the neuroscience of presence. Discover how your internal thoughts, external behaviors, and interactions shape your presence, and learn practical strategies to enhance your mindfulness and connection with others.
This episode dives into Dr. Dan Siegel's 'Wheel of Awareness' meditation, offering three actionable tips to strengthen your presence in daily life. Uncover how to elevate your relationships and productivity by integrating mindfulness practices into your routine.
Whether you're striving to be the most interesting or the most interested person in the room, this episode provides valuable guidance. Prepare to close the year with heightened awareness and step into 2025 with a new perspective on leadership and personal growth.
On today's episode #354 we continue with the final topic of our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January 2024. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) tied to the most current neuroscience research, that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights this year. It honestly shocked me that this series took the entire year. Our final topic today, will be the neuroscience of presence, and then stay tuned for a review of the entire series to help us to move forward in 2025 with a new lens.
((On today's EPISODE #354 “The Neuroscience of Presence” we will cover)):
✔ Chapter 19 of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership with the topic of presence.
✔ Grant Bosnick’s Presence Framework with examples of subtle and direct presence.
✔ The Neuroscience of Presence using Dr. Dan Siegel’s book Aware: The Science and Practice of Presence
✔ Three Tips to Develop More Presence in our Day to Day Life.
✔ Reflections for using Mindfulness and Meditation to Improve Our Presence.
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[ii], look to see if Presence (in Pathway 2), along with inspiration and motivation, persuade and influence, is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year. I was not surprised to see this pathway is a high area of focus for me as I’m always looking for new ways to motivate, inspire and influence, and presence is something I know I need to work on daily, bringing my attention back to the present moment or you might catch me daydreaming. It made me laugh when Masati Sajady mentioned he noticed this with me, back on EP 348[iii] last year. Our presence is something that can be felt, that’s for sure. Now let’s take this deeper with Grant’s book.
Grant opens up chapter 19, his final chapter, by saying that presence “is a product of our internal thoughts, external behaviors and interactions with others. It’s something (he says) that we carry with us at all times, whether we’re walking into a meeting room (or walking anywhere I might add) or sitting at a bus stop.” (Ch 19, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 252).
I can demonstrate this one easily because we have all been there. I’ll never forget Dr. Dan Siegel, who we interviewed way back in our early days of this podcast, on EP 28[iv] talking about this topic, as he watched a mother with a young child walking, and the mother was on her cell phone, not present at all. He talked about the many opportunities for connection that were lost in this instance, and I never forgot it, as I’ve been guilty of doing exactly the same thing and potentially losing out on opportunities to make meaningful connections with others.
Or think about this. In a conversation, someone is talking to you, and you notice the void. They’ve left the conversation. They are standing right in front of you, they could be looking you straight in the face, but they are no longer present mentally. You don’t need to ask them where they have gone, you can just feel it, and they eventually come back, but you know they gave you half of their attention.
Has this ever happened to you? Of course, it has.
Bosnick says that our presence “can be direct or subtle presence; and it can be controlled or uncontrolled. With direct controlled presence, we can be the most interesting person in the room—being assertive, measured and engaging (he says). With subtle controlled presence, we can be the most interested person in the room—being observant, connected and attentive.” (Ch 19, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 252) and he says “both add value in different situations.”
Whether you're striving to be the most interesting or the most interested person in the room, this episode provides valuable guidance. Prepare to close the year with heightened awareness and step into 2025 with a new perspective on leadership and personal growth.
Bosnick says that our presence “can be direct or subtle presence; and it can be controlled or uncontrolled. With direct controlled presence, we can be the most interesting person in the room—being assertive, measured and engaging (he says). With subtle controlled presence, we can be the most interested person in the room—being observant, connected and attentive.” (Ch 19, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 252) and he says “both add value in different situations.”
IMAGE CREDIT: Chapter 19 Grant Bosnick's Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership
When I think about the most interested person in the room, my mind goes to our company Zoom meetings, where there is one person, Nikki, who always has her camera on, and she is always listening to the conversation actively, showing she is truly interested. She’s an incredible role model for the rest of us, and I find her attention to be motivating.
This past Christmas holiday, we did a Secret Santa at our work, and Nikki was one of the organizers. I thought it would be fun to participate, so I signed up for this chance to get to know some of my work colleagues in a different way. When my box arrived at my house, and we all met on a call to open our gifts together, I was blown away with the items that were bought for me. The person who was my Secret Santa knew me well!
They found out I enjoy hiking in my spare time, and bought me some items that I can really use, when I’m out on the hiking trails. This person demonstrated they were “interested” in me, with a subtle presence, by being observant, connected and attentive. Wouldn’t you know it, that my Secret Santa was Nikki! And her presence made me want to do the same thing for others.
What about the most interesting person in the room? We all know this one. With direct, controlled presence, they become “assertive, measured and engaging” and it’s hard to take your eyes off of them. They are impossible to miss. I’m sure we can all close our eyes and think of an example of someone who uses their direct, controlled presence, really well.
No one wants to be “invisible” or on the other hand “overwhelming” so this idea of presence takes practice. Bosnick says that while “some people are naturally skilled at controlling and flexing between levels of presence (like my coworker Nikki), “most of us need to consciously work at it to bring it into our control and use it to our best advantage.” (Ch 19, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 253)
So how can we improve our presence? Let’s go straight to the expert on this topic, Dr. Dan Siegel, whose book, Aware: The Science and Practice of Presence,[v] dives deep into a meditation practice, called The Wheel of Awareness, that uses science and psychology to “strengthen your capacity for presence.” (Aware, Dan Siegel).
What is the Neuroscience of Presence?
This is what Dr. Dan Siegel helps us to understand in his book, Aware that outlines why the meditation he created (The Wheel of Awareness) begins with helping us to become more mindful, but the byproduct of this mindfulness, is that “people seem interested in exploring how they might cultivate more presence in their lives so they can be healthier, happier and kinder to themselves and others.” (Dr. Siegel, Aware). Of course at the end of our interview, 6 year ago now, Dr. Siegel asked me what I was learning from doing his Wheel of Awareness Meditation every day.
I shared what I learned in an extensive review of Dr. Siegel’s Wheel of Awareness Meditation, on EP 60[vi] “The Science Behind a Meditation Practice with a Deep Dive into Dr. Dan Siegel’s Wheel of Awareness.” It took me some time to uncover what I learned, but not only does this scientifically proven meditation change the structure and function of the brain in these fascinating ways:
There’s an integration of structure and function of the brain (integration means well-being).There’s a reduction of the stress hormone cortisol.There’s an enhancement of immune function.Improvement in cardiovascular risk factors.Reduction in inflammation via epigenetic changes.An optimization of telomerase—which is fascinating as it repairs and maintains the ends of chromosomes which slows aging.
In addition to these brain changes, I noticed an increase of ability with my 5 senses, also, with increased sensations within my body, and most importantly, what Dr. Siegel was looking to see if I noticed, was that it helped to increase my connection to people around me, expanding my “presence” far outside of myself, and into the world around me.
If you type the word “presence” into Dr. Siegel’s book, Aware, you will find it’s listed 85 times. Within his Wheel of Awareness Meditation he shares “is about monitoring with stability whatever is arising as it arises (when you do this practice day after day). It’s this awareness that (he says) we are calling presence.” (Aware, Siegel, Page 29).
How to Develop More Presence in Our Lives?
“How can we become more mindful (or present) in our day-to-day living so that we are aware of what’s happening?” (whatever is arising day to day)? Dr. Dan Siegel suggests that we “do a regular practice that trains the mind…That training of the mind is sometimes called meditation. (Where he says) we learn to strengthen (our) focused attention.” (Aware, Dr. Siegel, Page 14).
Here are three tips to start to become more present (with whatever it is that arises) in our day to day life:
MEDITATE TO STRENGTHEN OUR MIND: Find a meditation where you must be active (not just sit, listen and drift off). It could be Dan Siegel’s Wheel of Awareness[vii] or even our most downloaded episode series of all-time, The Silva Method.[viii] Find the best time of day to practice strengthening your mind, and stay consistent.NEXT PRACTICE BEING MINDFUL: Once we have strengthened our mind, now we’ve got to put this mental strength into practice. Like Nikki on Zoom calls, she increased her presence by being the most interested person in the room. Or what about when we are in a conversation with someone else, and our mind wanders. Are you able to mindfully bring it back? Dr. Siegel reminds us that “mental presence is a state of being awake and receptive to what is happening, as it is happening in the moment, within us, and between the world and us.” ( Aware, Siegel, Page 14).FINALLY, NOTICE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS INCREASED PRESENCE: As we work on strengthening our own presence in the world, and as we are observant, connected and attentive to others (or present) Dr. Siegel would say that we go from the state of “I” to a more integrated self that he calls “MWE.” This is where you/me connect together and like I noticed with the Wheel of Awareness practice, it increased the importance of expanding my presence outside of myself, to include others around me, in the world.
When we can be truly present in our work or personal lives, we will begin to notice the connections around us, and how important they are. It takes some time though, to put this into practice, as we are bombarded with distractions daily, that take us away from this much-needed presence.
In chapter 19 of his book, Grant Bosnick asks us to reflect on his Presence Framework, image 19.1 and asks us:
Have you ever felt uncontrolled, direct presence where you might be overdoing it and unintentionally overwhelming others?How to use empathy and emotional intelligence to direct yourself back to being more mindful of how you are showing up to others.Think of someone who has controlled direct presence, making them the most interesting person in the room.Think of someone who has controlled subtle presence who appears to be the most interested person, on a consistent basis.
Once you know which quadrant you typically show up in with Bosnick’s Presence Framework, you can begin the work to train your mind to become more present in your daily work and personal life. I guarantee this will help you to build stronger, more effective relationships with others. You will start seeing how your connections go from thinking about ME…to MWE (or you and me together).
To review and conclude this week’s episode #354 on “The Neuroscience of Presence” we covered:
✔ Chapter 19 of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership with the topic of presence.
✔ Grant Bosnick’s Presence Framework with examples of subtle and direct presence.
✔ The Neuroscience of Presence using Dr. Dan Siegel’s book Aware: The Science and Practice of Presence
✔ Three Tips to Develop More Presence in our Day to Day Life.
✔ Reflections for using Mindfulness and Meditation to Improve Our Presence, and expand our connection with others in the world.
I hope this episode has been as helpful to you as it was for me. Being more present in my daily life (work and personal) is something that takes effort for me, even after implementing Dr. Siegel’s Wheel of Awareness Meditation. Distractions come fiercely, every second of the day and it takes a trained mind to divert our attention to what matters the most for us. This takes practice, and effort, but the results are well worth it.
With that thought, we will close out this episode, and next time, we will review ALL 19 chapters of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, in one place.
See you next time.
REFERENCES:
[i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[iii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #348 with Masati https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/unveiling-exponential-intelligence-transform-your-life-by-shifting-frequencies/
[iv] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #28 with Dr. Dan Siegel https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/clinical-professor-of-psychiatry-at-the-ucla-school-of-medicine-dr-daniel-siegel-on-mindsight-the-basis-for-social-and-emotional-intelligence/
[v] Dr. Dan Siegel, Aware: The Science and Practice and Presence (Published August 21, 2018) https://drdansiegel.com/book/aware/
[vi]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #60 “The Science Behind a Meditation Practice with a Deep Dive into Dr. Dan Siegel’s Wheel of Awareness” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/the-science-behind-a-meditation-practice-with-a-deep-dive-into-dr-dan-siegel-s-wheel-of-awareness/
[vii] https://www.drdansiegel.com/resources/wheel_of_awareness/
[viii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #322 A Deep Dive into Applying The Silva Method for Improving Creativity, and Innovation https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/transforming-minds-and-paving-the-future/
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Unlocking Empathy: The Neuroscience Behind Understanding Others
12 jan· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Join Andrea Samadi in Episode 353 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast as we explore the intricacies of empathy, guided by Grant Bosnick's tailored approaches to self-leadership. Delve into the foundation of empathy as a vital leadership tool, capable of strengthening relationships and achieving better outcomes. Learn about the neuroscience behind empathy, focusing on the role of mirror neurons and the three different types of empathy: cognitive, emotional, and empathetic concern.
We also reflect on personal experiences where assumptions led to misunderstandings, highlighting the importance of seeing through another's eyes. Discover practical tips for deepening empathy, cultivating empathetic concern, and applying these insights both personally and professionally to make meaningful connections. This episode calls us to consciously choose empathy, fostering trust and compassion in our interactions. Prepare for our final chapter on the Neuroscience of Presence in the upcoming episodes as we continue to enhance our understanding and application of neuroscience in our daily lives.
Welcome back to SEASON 13 of The Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity and results—using what I saw as the missing link (since we weren’t taught this when we were growing up in school), the application of practical neuroscience. I’m Andrea Samadi, an author, and an educator with a passion for learning and launched this podcast 6 years ago with the goal of bringing ALL the leading experts together (in one place) to help us to APPLY this research in our daily lives.
On today's episode #353 we continue with the second last topic of our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January 2024. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) tied to the most current neuroscience research, that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights this year. It honestly shocked me that this series took the entire year. Our final topic will be the neuroscience of presence, and then stay tuned for a review of the entire series to help us to move forward in 2025 with a new lens.
Now we have not yet covered empathy as an entire topic on this podcast, (yet) but we did mention it on EP 340[ii] with mediation expert John Ford on “Navigating Workplace Conflicts” with his “The Empathy Set”[iii] Card Program. I also included the topic of Empathy within the Character Education program I created for schools, so I know why Grant would think this topic to be important enough to include on his “roadmap” for success. When I looked back to what I had written over 15 years ago on empathy, I found an image that said “empathy is seeing with the eyes of another, listening with the ears of another, and feeling with the heart of another” which is right in line with how Grant Bosnick opens up Chapter 18 of his book. Grant reminds us that “empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from their frame of reference, the capacity to place ourselves in another person’s position, to put ourselves in their shoes, see it from their eyes, their perspective, their way of thinking and feeling.”.
((On today's EPISODE #353 “The Neuroscience of Empathy” we will cover)):
✔ A review of previous episodes where we covered empathy.
✔ The Neuroscience of Empathy
✔ Three Kinds of Empathy (Cognitive, Emotional and Empathetic Concern).
✔ Tips for becoming more empathetic in our daily life to deepen our relationships and improve our outcomes personally and professionally.
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[iv], look to see if Empathy (in Pathway 6, our final pathway in this book study) along with biases, relationships/authenticity and trust is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year. I was not surprised to see this pathway is a high area of focus for me. I often think “I wonder what this person is thinking and feeling” and try to see a situation from their viewpoint. Do you do this? Think and feel from another person’s point of view? That’s the first step at putting empathy into action in our daily life. Now let’s take this deeper with Grant’s book.
In Chapter 18 of Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, he asks us to remember a time we felt conflict or tension with another person, and asks us to look at the problem from the other person’s perspective. I remember Dr. Maiysha Clairborne from EP 289[v] talking about the “3 Positions of Listening” where she informs us we can look at the conflict through our own eyes first, and then step out of our shoes, and into someone else’s (she calls this position 2 to see what they see, hear what they hear, and feel the feelings they might be feeling. And finally, the third position, which she says is the most valuable, is the observer position where you can go above and look down at the conflict, outside of each person involved, to see the entire dynamic, or bigger picture.
Grant talks about the importance of stepping into another person’s shoes, the minute we sense tension or frustration coming up with another person. Feeling empathy for others is an important leadership tool Grant reminds us, as it will help us to “build trust, develop relationship(s) and achieve better outcomes” but he cautions us against making assumptions that can influence our decisions and actions. (Chapter 18, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 235)
REFLECTION QUESTION:
Grant asks us to reflect on when we might have been wrong about the thoughts or motivations of another person, and what behavior did you take, intentionally, or unintentionally?
I always go back to an example that I would share in the classrooms, working with teens on this topic, as this has happened to all of us in some capacity.
I’m going back now to when I was in high school, (Don Mills Collegiate in Toronto, Canada) and I was walking along a pathway, outside of my school, and saw my good friend Yolanda (real name). I waved at Yolanda, and looked forward to catching up with her on our way to our classes, but Yolanda didn’t wave back to me. I went straight in my head to “hmmm…I wonder why Yolanda is angry with me” and I went another route, so we would miss each other and didn’t end up walking together. I had made the assumption that Yolanda was angry with me, and the action I took, was that I avoided her. I can think of countless other times in my life where I’ve made assumptions like this, and missed opportunities with friends.
At a later date, Yolanda asked me why I was avoiding her, ( I was surprised she noticed) and I told her about how I had waved and that she hadn’t waved back, and it was then that she told me she wasn’t wearing her glasses that day, and never saw me. In fact, she didn’t see anything at all that day (the chalkboards included)! I was disappointed that I had made this assumption, and it was a valuable lesson to see through Yolanda’s eyes, with how incorrect I was when I made this assumption.
The Neuroscience of Empathy
So how does empathy work in our brain? Grant reminds us of “the activation of mirror neurons in our brain which help to explain the process of empathy.” In our brain, “empathy is a spontaneous sharing of a person’s feelings or thoughts by witnessing and being affected by their emotional state” (Chapter 18, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 236) and that “we mirror or mimic the emotional response that we would expect to feel ourselves if we were in that same context.” I always think of those emotional Hallmark Card commercials that get me every time, or movies where I relate to the character, and wipe away tears, reminding myself “it’s just a movie.”
The movie Ghost with Whoopi Goldberg, comes to mind, with a memory I’ll never forget, from many years ago. As the movie ended, one of my friends wasn’t ready to leave the theater, and I remember him not wanting to talk about it, as he wiped tear away from his eyes, hoping none of us would notice. The movie had triggered his mirror neurons and like Grant Bosnick mentioned in his book, movies can do this to us! Grant gives us the origin of these mirror neurons by sharing that “they evolved in the human brain to facilitate and understand the actions we need to take in response to others as, at least in human history (he says) our survival would depend on it.” (Chapter 18, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 237). My friend didn’t want to “feel” what Patrick Swayze was feeling in the movie, Ghost, but his mirror neurons wouldn’t give him much choice.
I remember reading in National Geographic, about the origin of our “mirror neurons” and learned that “humans communicate through facial gestures. Control of these expressions lies in the brain stem and amygdala, beyond consciousness.”[vi] This makes sense to me, since when you try to control it, or not feel these emotions, (like my friend in the movie theater) it’s very difficult, and almost impossible. Do you relate to mirror neurons, and feeling empathy for others in this way?
Three Kinds of Empathy
Bosnick goes on to share that there are three kinds of empathy: cognitive empathy, emotional empathy and empathetic concern.
Cognitive Empathy is “taking another person’s perspective and understanding the situation as they see it” (Chapter 18, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 237) like we learned from Maiysha Clairborne with the three positions of listening. “Through their words and body language, we process it logically, taking their perspective, without experiencing it.” The mirror neurons do not fire here.
Emotional Empathy is “feeling someone’s pain or emotion by seeing it in them and simulating/sensing it in ourselves.” (Chapter 18, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 237). In this case, mirror neurons fire as we experience the situation like it were our own, like my friend in the movie theater.
Grant points out that “different parts of the brain are activated during emotional empathy and cognitive empathy. As a result, we process it differently within our brain. It has also shown (that we just mentioned from the quote from National Geographic) that we can control cognitive empathy much more than emotional empathy because it uses a logical part of our brain rather than an emotional center.” (Chapter 18, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 238). He does urge us to work on using both at the same time “to understand the other person’s perspective AND experience their emotions” to come at the most accurate conclusion to how they are thinking and feeling.
Grant pointed out that in the workplace, he usually defaults to using more cognitive empathy, and just by adding more emotional empathy, he is able to truly understand those he works with, and empathize with them on a deeper level.
Empathetic Concern is “the feeling that if I can do something that can help you, I will…when I see you are in trouble, I want to help you out…It is being genuinely concerned with others and experiencing other-oriented emotions to help them.” (Chapter 18, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 240). This is “when we express care, tenderness, compassion…about another person, supporting them, showing trust, allowing them space.” Bosnick says empathetic concern takes “emotional empathy” to a deeper level.
REFLECTION QUESTION:
When have you experienced empathetic concern? Think of one personal and one business example where you have genuinely felt concern for another person and wanted to help them.
Reflect on what how empathetic concern deepened the levels of trust, helped to develop a better relationship, with improved outcomes.
Bosnick warns us that “although empathy is a natural biological process within our brains, it is not automatic” and shares that “feeling empathy is a choice we make.” (Chapter 18, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 241). His book does dive deeper into situations where people may consciously, or unconsciously choose not to be empathetic with tips on how to develop habits for effective empathy that include listening to others, standing up for others, reading more books, and even how to raise empathetic children. You can dive deeper into the topic of empathy in chapter 18 of Grant’s book.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #353 on “The Neuroscience of Empathy” we covered:
✔ A review of previous episodes where we covered empathy (John Ford’s episode and also with Dr. Maiysha Clairborne) that are excellent to review.
✔ The Neuroscience of Empathy, our mirror neurons, and a warning to watch making assumptions in this process.
✔ Three Kinds of Empathy (Cognitive, Emotional and Empathetic Concern).
✔ Tips for becoming more empathetic in our daily life, and practice Empathetic Concern where we can, to deepen our relationships and improve our outcomes personally and professionally.
I hope this episode has provided you with a deeper understanding of ways to practice being more empathetic in your personal and work life. I know that the world can be a better place if we all can learn to think and feel from another person’s point of view, and finally, if we have solutions that can genuinely help others, to lean in and offer some ideas to support those that are close to you.
It can only work to bring you closer.
With that thought, we will close out this episode, and we will see you next time with our final chapter, The Neuroscience of Presence, before reviewing the entire book. Have a great week.
REFERENCES:
[i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #340 with John Ford https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/navigating-workplace-conflicts-insights-from-a-mediation-expert/
[iii] https://www.empathyset.com/about
[iv] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[v] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #289 with Dr. Maiysha Clairborne on “Getting to the Roots of our Doubts, Fears and Beliefs” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/maiysha-clairborne-md-on-what-holds-us-back-getting-to-the-root-of-our-doubts-fears-and-beliefs/
[vi] National Geographic “Your Brain: 100 Things You Never Knew” (4/19/19) https://www.amazon.com/National-Geographic-Your-Brain-Things/dp/B00AO70YGO
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Unlocking the Neuroscience of Trust: Strengthening Leadership
2 jan· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series, where we delve into the fascinating topic of trust and its underpinning neuroscience. In episode 352, we revitalize our understanding of trust by revisiting our initial interview with Greg Link from episode 206 and exploring Grant Bosnick's insightful approaches.
We unpack the concept of trust as presented in Bosnick's book, emphasizing the five C's for strengthening trustworthiness: Character, Competency, Credibility, Consistency, and Care. Each of these pillars serves as a foundation for building reliable relationships both personally and professionally.
Further, we examine critical factors impacting trust, like responsiveness, authenticity, and empathy, shedding light on how these elements foster an environment of trust. This exploration is pivotal for anyone aiming to enhance their self-leadership skills and boost their interpersonal effectiveness.
Join us as we push the boundaries of self-leadership, preparing to soar to new heights in the upcoming year with insights that are not only transformative but also actionable.
On today's episode #352 we continue with our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January 2024. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) tied to the most current neuroscience research, that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights this year. It’s honestly shocked me that this series took the entire year, and we still have 2 chapters left. The Neuroscience of Empathy and Presence, and then stay tuned for a review of the entire series to take us to new refined heights, in 2025.
((On today's EPISODE #352 “The Neuroscience of Trust” we will cover)):
✔ A review of our FIRST interview where we covered trust with Greg Link,EP 206[ii]
✔ Ch. 17 from Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership book on “The Neuroscience of Trust.”
✔ The 5 Cs to strengthen trustworthiness from Grant Bosnick’s work.
✔ Critical factors that impact trust.
Review of the Neuroscience of Trust
We first covered The Neuroscience of Trust on EPISODE #206, as I was preparing for an interview with Greg Link[i], the co-founder of the Covey Leadership Center. Greg was the one who orchestrated the strategy that led Dr. Stephen R. Covey’s book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change, (1989)[ii] to become one of the two best-selling business books of the 20th century according to CEO Magazine, selling over 20 million copies in 38 languages. Greg created the marketing momentum that helped propel Covey Leadership Center from a start-up company to a $110-plus million-dollar enterprise with offices in 40 countries.
You can go back to episode #207[iii] to learn more from Greg Link’s incredible experience working with Dr. Covey, and with the fascinating individuals and companies around the world he reviewed with us, where we dove into the topic of “Unleashing Greatness with Neuroscience, SEL, Trust, and the 7 Habits.”
While researching Greg Link, who I met when he came to work in the seminar industry in 2002, I was reminded of a topic that he thought was so important that he wrote a book about it with Stephen M.R. Covey (the son of the late Stephen R. Covey) called Smart Trust: The Defining Skill That Transforms Managers into Leaders.[iii]
If you look up quotes from Stephen Covey on trust, you can see how important this skill or character trait was to him. He said, “trust is the glue to life” and “the one thing that affects everything else you’re doing. It’s a performance multiplier which takes your trajectory upwards, for every action you engage in, from strategy to execution.” It’s the “shortest route to results” (Robert Allen, author of Multiple Streams of Income). “Trust is the highest form of human motivation. It brings out the very best in people.” (Stephen Covey).
Greg Link confided in us in our interview, that it was when Dr. Stephen Covey extended trust towards him (to build his company) that his whole world shifted.
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[iv], look to see if Trust (in Pathway 6, our final pathway in this book study) along with biases, relationships/authenticity and empathy is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year. I was not surprised to see this pathway is a high area of focus for me.
Moving on to chapter 17 of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Bosnick opens the chapter by saying that “trust is like a bank account: we can increase it with deposits or reduce it with withdrawals.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 215). He elaborates by saying that “when we are kind and respectful to others, we make a deposit and increase the levels of trust; when we are unkind or disrespectful to others, by contrast, we make a withdrawal and lower the trust. When we keep promises, we make a deposit; when we break promises, we make a withdrawal. When we apologize, we make a deposit, when we are selfish, proud, or arrogant, we make a withdrawal.”
Every time we interact with someone, we have the opportunity to make a deposit, or a withdrawal, and if we make deposits and build this up over time, “we can have an abundance of trust.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 215) and Bosnick reminds us that this allows for when “we might have made a withdrawal, others can forgive us for this one time and still keep a high level of trust.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 215).
But he warns us that “if we make multiple withdrawals, these will accumulate and drive the level of trust down, which is harder to come back from. It can, in fact, go into a negative balance, where we may distrust that person, and then interpret all of their behavior in a negative light, from which they may never come back.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 215).
Bosnick does point out that “there is a strong correlation between trust and a person’s willingness to acknowledge their own mistakes, apologize for them and encourage other to acknowledge and learn from their mistakes.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 215).
What is the Neuroscience of Trust?
Bosnick points out that “when we trust and have trust with others, our brains release and build oxytocin: the neurochemical produced from the comfort of social trust either given or received…Oxytocin is produced in the human brain when we feel trust and trusted, and this molecule motivates reciprocation.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 219). Researchers found that this response signals that another person is safe, familiar and trustworthy, and can occur with strangers without face-to-face interactions.
In chart 17.1, Bosnick lists some behaviors that erode trust, like being inconsistent, lying or lacking transparency, lacking follow through, taking undue credit, passing blame, gossiping, not “walking the talk” or poor communication.
IMAGE CREDIT: Chapter 17 of Grant Bosnick's Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership.
Have you ever met someone who eroded trust with you, using any of these examples?
If you want to work on building rock-solid trust with others, (personally or professionally) here is what Bosnick suggests.
How to Be Trustworthy
Bosnick shares the 5 Cs to being Trustworthy.
Character: To be trustworthy, we need to be a person of integrity. Integrity is when our thoughts, feelings and actions line up, and it can be felt from others. We’ve talked about this concept before on this podcast and have called this PRAXIS. To be sure that your thoughts, feelings and actions line up, (or that you are walking your talk) a good measure would be to look at your results. Your conditions, circumstances and environment in your life are a direct reflection of the actions that you take day to day. If you don’t like the results you are attaining, (or your conditions/circumstances or your environment where you live) go back and look at your thoughts, feelings and actions, and see if you can uncover where it may be misaligned, and then correct where you are out of line. You might not think this is important, but it really is, as others will just “feel” something is off with you, until this alignment is corrected. Competency: What is your personal track record of success? Do you say what you are going to do, and then do what you say, successfully? Being honest with what we are capable of doing, increases our trustworthiness. This also goes for when we need additional help of support to complete whatever it is that we are working on. To work on strengthening this area, remember that it is not a weakness to ask for additional help when needed. Credibility: If we can “connect the dots between other people’s problems or situations” Bosnick says that this adds to our credibility, and this increases our trustworthiness. He says that to do this properly, we cannot “make assumptions and predetermine the solution before fully understanding their needs. We must listen to the core issues and provide solutions that meet their specific needs.” Our ability to listen deeply to others, therefore, improves our trustworthiness. Consistency: Do you do what you say you are going to do with consistency? This creates stability, puts others at ease and builds trust. Bosnick says that “we need to create stability in the situations we face and with the people we interact with. This stability helps people to feel at ease and know what to expect” and this in turn, increases our trustworthiness. Care: Do you care about the people you interact with? Do you show them that they matter, or that you appreciate them? Doing this demonstrates emotional intelligence, Bosnick says, and this “builds human connections and enhances our trustworthiness with the people we engage with.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 222).
I can think of examples in each of these areas, but the one that impacts me the most, is the first one, our character. It’s how we behave when no one else is watching. When no one else is watching, are you of integrity with your thoughts, feelings and actions?
Then think about the others.
Are you credible? Do other people trust your abilities? Do you LISTEN deeply to others before offering solutions?
What about consistency? Do those that interact with you know where you stand so they can anticipate your actions? Do you create stability?
Or competency? Do we know our limits, and what we need for success to occur, and if in doubt, ask for help or support from others to hit our goals?
Activity:
Reflect on a person you work with where trust is important. Have you ever done something with this person that eroded the trust? How can you use the 5 Cs to build trust to a level where others trust in you without a shadow of a doubt?
Remember what Greg Link taught us. For others to see us as trustworthy, it helps when we extend trust in others. The first time I realized that trusting others was not easy for me, was when I was in an experiential seminar in 2004 that showed me just how much trust I had in other people. I had to climb up high, (in this activity) and free fall backwards, and trust that my team mates (who I didn’t know very well) would catch me, before I hit the ground. I remember looking at each of my teammates, and the big strong men, I trusted would catch me, (without a doubt) but the women, I wondered about. This was a huge lesson for me in self-awareness, as I’ve since learned to extend trust to the close women in my life, learning that strength comes in many different forms, but most importantly, it comes back to you, when it’s given.
Critical Factors That Impact Trust
To close out this chapter, Bosnick covers critical factors that impact trust in figure 17.3 that I’ve added to the show notes. He explains “the most critical factor to build and maintain trust was responsiveness.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 230) and that the size of the team matters.
IMAGE CREDIT: Chapter 17 of Grant Bosnick's Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership
Bosnick listed survey results that showed “having a good team makeup who work well together and are responsive in their communication engenders trust. Unresponsive, new teams need to work together to build a bit of cohesion.”
Next he lists “authenticity and empathy” for building and maintaining trust which includes “showing genuine, positive regard for others, in our mind, intent and behavior.” It’s PRAXIS again. Our thoughts, feelings and actions show up whether we think others can “see” it or not. This comes through with our authenticity that we covered thoroughly on EP 346[v] “Discovering Authenticity and Vulnerability with Mo Issa.”
Another survey result he shared mentioned that “when people can bring their whole selves to work from a place of authenticity, while listening and providing their diverse point of views, it creates an environment of trust.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 230).
He adds that “communication plays a key role in building and maintaining trust. We need to be open and honest because secretiveness and withholding information leads to distrust.” (Chapter 17, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 230).
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #352 on “The Neuroscience of Trust” we covered:
✔ A review of our FIRST interview where we covered trust with Greg Link,EP 206[vi] a were reminded that when we extend trust to others, it will be extended back to us.
✔ Ch. 17 from Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership book on “The Neuroscience of Trust.”
The 5 Cs to strengthen trustworthiness from Grant Bosnick’s work (character, competency, credibility, consistency and care) with tips for us to strengthen each area.Critical factors that impact trust with responsiveness, authenticity and empathy being at the top of the list.
I hope this episode has added some insight for you as we launch a New Year, and work on closing out this 19 chapter series. Stay tuned for our final 2 chapters (empathy-chapter 18 and presence-chapter 19) before reviewing the entire series. See you next time and Happy New Year!
REFERENCES
[i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #206 https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-fact-friday-on-the-neuroscience-of-trust/
[iii] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #207 https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/co-founder-of-coveylink-greg-link-on-unleashing-greatness-with-neuroscience-sel-trust-and-the-7-habits/
[iv] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[v] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #346 Discovering Authenticity and Vulnerability with Mo Issa https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/the-midlife-shift-discovering-authenticity-and-vulnerability-with-mo-issa/
[vi] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #206 https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-fact-friday-on-the-neuroscience-of-trust/
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Unlocking the Secrets of Magnesium for Brain and Body Health with Dr. Gregory Kelly from Qualia Life
22 dec 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome to the latest episode of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, where we dive into the cutting-edge fusion of neuroscience and emotional intelligence training. Today, we are thrilled to host Dr. Gregory Kelly for the third time, exploring the science behind Qualia's newest supplement: Magnesium Plus. Join us as Dr. Kelly explains why magnesium is vital for our health, from its role in cellular function and stress management to its impact on aging and brain vitality. Discover the unique formulation of Qualia Magnesium Plus, and learn why it stands out in the crowded supplement market.
As our understanding of wellness evolves, so does our need for tools that address modern challenges. Whether you're dealing with stress, seeking better sleep, or wanting to enhance your cognitive functions, this episode offers insights into how magnesium can play a crucial role in your daily regimen. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from a leading expert in natural medicine and take a step towards better health and well-being.
Watch our interview on YouTube here https://youtu.be/lzee8WNZwU4
On today's episode #351 we meet with a returning guest, for the third time, Dr. Gregory Kelly from EP 285[i] where we first met him and covered Qualia Senolytic (something I have been taking ever since that interview to optimize aging, supporting cellular function, and then again on EP 305[ii] where we covered Qualia Symbiotic to optimize digestion and mood.
On today's EPISODE #351 “Qualia Magnesium+ for Heart, Brain and Bone Health with Dr. Gergory Kelly” we will cover:
✔ Why magnesium is critical to every organ in the body (cellular function and stress management).
✔ The science behind Qualia's NEWEST supplement for brain health: Qualia Magnesium+
✔ Why THIS supplement stands out from other brands on the market.
Today we are covering their most recent product release, Qualia Magnesium+, that I have been taking for the past 2 weeks, so we can learn together WHY this specific product is unique and different from other brands of magnesium on the market, and what I have noticed since taking this supplement.
A bit about Dr. Kelly:
Gregory Kelly is Director of Product Development at Qualia Life Sciences, naturopathic physician (N.D.), and author of the book Shape Shift. He was the editor of the journal Alternative Medicine Review and has been an instructor at the University of Bridgeport in the College of Naturopathic Medicine, where he taught classes in Advanced Clinical Nutrition, Counseling Skills, and Doctor-Patient Relationships. Dr. Kelly has published hundreds of articles on natural medicine and nutrition, contributed three chapters to the Textbook of Natural Medicine, and has more than 30 journal articles indexed on Pubmed. His areas of expertise include nootropics, anti-aging and regenerative medicine, weight management, sleep and the chronobiology of performance and health.
Let’s meet Dr. Gregory Kelly and see what we can learn about the benefits of adding magnesium to our wellness protocol.
Welcome back Dr. Kelly, it’s awesome to see you again. How are things going?
Interview Questions
To open up here, I wonder if we could talk about magnesium, and why it’s critical to every organ in the human body?Magnesium impacts all 12 hallmarks of aging, tell us more about how low magnesium levels can accelerate the aging process.What is the link between magnesium levels and brain health? Can you share studies to support this?How long can we notice the benefits of taking magnesium? Andrea measured using her Whoop device, and noticed a spike around the beginning of December.What are some signs of low magnesium levels and why is it safe to say that deficiencies often go unnoticed?
Magnesium Facts & Myths
At least half of Americans are deficient in magnesium and what contributes to the deficiency?
Why is a comprehensive approach to magnesium supplementation vital and what does that mean?Is there redundancy when it comes to magnesium supplementation?Outside of supplementation can you share lifestyle tips to help us maintain healthy magnesium levels?
Qualia Magnesium:
Magnesium is a very saturated market, what makes Qualia Magnesium+ unique and innovative?Can you share some results from your pilot study?What’s next for Qualia?
Social Media Handles
https://www.facebook.com/Qualialife
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/qualialife/?hl=en
Links for Show Notes:
Link: http://www.qualialife.com/andrea
Code: andrea
(listeners get an additional 15% off any Qualia order)
RESOURCES:
Magnesium Status Questionnaire https://ariya.health/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Magnesium-Status-Questionnaire.pdf
REFERENCES:
[i] https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/dr-gregory-kelly-from-neurohacker-collective-on-how-to-beat-aging-and-stress-with-qualia-senolytics/
[ii] https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/returning-guest-dr-gregory-kelly-on-qualia-synbiotic-optimizing-digestion-and-mood-with-prebiotics-probiotics-and-postbiotics/
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Unlocking Brain Health with Dr. David Stephens
7 dec 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome to Episode 350 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast! In this episode, Andrea Samadhi delves into an enlightening discussion with Dr. David Stephens, a clinical psychologist and neuropsychologist renowned for his expertise in brain function and mental health. Discover groundbreaking insights into how glucose can be a game-changer in restoring brain function, mental health, and overall productivity.
Dr. Stephens shares his compelling journey that led to the revelation of glucose as a crucial element in brain restoration. From understanding the perceptible differences between glucose and sugar to unraveling common myths about brain health, this conversation is packed with scientific insights that challenge traditional paradigms. You won't want to miss this fascinating exploration of how restoring glucose levels could revolutionize our mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being.
Watch our interview on YouTube here https://youtu.be/T0R3uvBbHPE
Welcome back to SEASON 12 of The Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity and results—using what I saw as the missing link (since we weren’t taught this when we were growing up in school), the application of practical neuroscience. I’m Andrea Samadi, an author, and an educator with a passion for learning and launched this podcast 6 years ago with the goal of bringing ALL the leading experts together (in one place) to help us to APPLY this research in our daily lives.
On today’s episode #350, we meet with Dr. David Stephens[i], a clinical psychologist, neuropsychologist, and consultant with extensive experience in brain function, restoration and mental health.
On today's EPISODE #350 “Unlocking Brain Health with Dr. David Stephens” we will cover:
✔ Groundbreaking insights into how glucose can be a game-changer in restoring brain function, mental health, and overall productivity.
✔ Dr. Stephens shares his compelling journey that led to the revelation of glucose as a crucial element in brain restoration.
✔ The perceptible differences between glucose and sugar
✔ Unravel common myths about brain health, while challenging traditional paradigms.
Some quick facts about Dr. Stephens. He was the
Former Director of Mental Health for three state prison systemsOverseen mental health services in jails throughout the USAcademic dean of an accredited graduate school of psychologyCorrectional and architectural neuroscience consultantProvides brain restoration services to individuals
What drew me to Dr. Stephens is that our podcast took a turn towards health and wellness after the Pandemic, and a huge part of this direction has been focused on brain health. We have met many experts along the way who have shared tips and strategies to give us hope in our journey of life, but Dr. Stephens will take this hope to new heights if we can keep our minds open.
While the front page of his website features the headline “Humanity Restored” when I went to the research[ii] behind his work, I was taken back a bit. It was all about glucose and its restorative effects on the brain and body. Then I went to the peer reviewed studies[iii] to learn more, and realized that my understanding of glucose (what it is, how is glucose different from sugar (that I consider poison), and how can glucose be used to restore brain function)? All of my questions, I realized needed to be addressed before this interview. So, I watched some interviews Dr. Stephens had with other podcasters, and learned about “How to cure depression with glucose”[iv] and also where his work began where he connects hard science, and neuroscience, to spirituality.[v]
Let’s now meet Dr. David Stephens, where I will ask him to share his work and research that he has felt divinely inspired to share, and see if we can take this new knowledge and understanding, to break through our current paradigms, and move towards improved “physical, neurological, mental, emotional, and spiritual functions” (Stephens) of our brain health.
Welcome Dr. David Stephens, thank you for joining me today.
Dr. Stephens, before I even get into your research, your books, and your mission with your work, can we begin with where this journey began for you? I want to acknowledge how you feel that you were divinely guided with this work as I think that is important to address.
Q1: Can we talk about our brain, and the most important discovery you think has come about in recent years (that the brain must have fuel to function the way it does?) What is the science behind this important fuel for our body?
Q2: What about ketones as fuel for the brain? I ask this from understanding the keto diet (not saying it’s the best solution for everyone, but some people do well on it). Can we not just use ketones the same way you are saying we can use glucose?
Q3: What parts of the brain are fueled first, to last with this energy, and why should we understand this if we want to optimize our performance?
Q4: What are some problems that we know of, that result from low glucose or fuel to the brain?
Q5: Can we talk about how fuel to the brain can become limited. I think I heard you say that there are symptoms that can lead us to guess we could have limited glucose in our brain, especially if it’s causing all of these challenges for us, there has to be a cause behind this. Along with concussions that we see in the sports world, to merely bumping our heads? What should we know about injury and the correlation of our ability to provide enough fuel in our brain?
Q6: How do these concussions (or traumas, or high stress in our lives) translate to the brain and activate our sympathetic nervous system and put us into this state where we are in survival mode? A place that we know is not a good place for us to exist in?
Would you then say that all of the list of problems we spoke about, that are a result of low fuel to the brain, could also be attributed to the chemical process of concussions, or trauma, or high stress in our lives? I ask this as I have 2 daughters who are gymnasts. One has been diagnosed with a concussion, at the ER, and the other has hit her head enough times even though she has not been diagnosed. What should we be aware of about the origin of these mental/emotional/physical disorders that can be a result of a head injury?
Q7: How have we not heard of this solution for brain health yet? Is it because the research is so new?
Q8: At this point in writing these questions, I went to all the supplements I take for my brain health, to see if glucose was in them, and I couldn’t see any. Then I remembered when my youngest daughter was sick when she was first born, she picked up a virus and had to stay a week at Phoenix Children’s Hospital. I clearly remember them giving her a tube of something they said was sugar. Do you think this was glucose? She was too young to have any medicine. This was the only thing they gave her, and she recovered thank goodness, after a week in hospital before she was 3 months old.
Q9: I’ve actually done a few podcast episodes on “The Damaging Effects of Sugar on the Brain and Body”[vi] with research that came from my foot doctor, who had me change my diet in 2005, and my health turned around for the better. What should we understand about glucose, vs sucralose that is connected to weight gain and type 2 diabetes? What’s important about understanding our blood sugar vs glucose levels in the brain?
Q10: How do we treat low glucose then? Is it as simple as taking something over the counter for this? Do we need to have symptoms like you’ve mentioned to consider this treatment? Why would someone seek this out?
Q11: What have you seen from treating people with low glucose levels in the brain?
Q12: Is there anything important that I have missed?
Thank you very much for your time today, to help us to all understand how we can improve our life and results by understanding the importance of glucose and our brain. For people to learn more about your work, is your website the best way? https://restoredhumanity.com/
CONNECT with DR. STEPHENS
Email: [email protected]
RESOURCES:
Sugar: The Bitter Truth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM Published on YouTube 15 years ago.
REFERENCES:
[i] https://restoredhumanity.com/s/home.php
[ii] https://restoredhumanity.com/s/research.php
[iii] https://restoredhumanity.com/s/science.php
[iv] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7sG-ePM6Hw
[v] https://restoredhumanity.com/s/seminar.php
[vi] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE 275 “The Damaging Impacts of Sugar on the Brain and Body” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-fact-friday-the-damaging-impacts-of-sugar-on-the-brain-and-body/
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Unlocking Radical Self-Acceptance: A Journey with Dr. Laura Gallaher
29 nov 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome to today's enlightening episode of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast. Join host Andrea Samadhi as she explores the insights of Dr. Laura Gallaher, an organizational psychologist and executive coach. Dr. Gallaher shares her earlier days at NASA, revealing how she tackled the challenges following the Columbia shuttle disaster to reshape organizational culture and highlight the importance of psychological safety.
Through an engaging conversation, Dr. Gallaher discusses her personal journey towards radical self-acceptance and how it transforms career and personal relationships. Learn how leaders can foster vulnerability and courage to build more productive, aligned, and self-aware teams, and discover the contagious nature of authentic connections based on self-awareness and acceptance. Tune in for an inspiring discussion that blends neuroscience, psychology, and real-life experiences to encourage growth both at work and home.
Watch our interview on YouTube here https://youtu.be/b0Pc6bKKWwM
On today's EPISODE #349 “Unlocking Radical Self-Acceptance with Dr. Laura Gallaher” we will cover:
✔ Where Dr. Gallaher's career began, leading her to work with NASA.
✔ How can radical self-acceptance transform our career, and personal lives.
✔ Uncover where YOU are on the self-acceptance quadrant, so you can blend science and psychology to take your results to new heights.
On today’s episode #349, we meet with Dr. Laura Gallaher, an Organizational Psychologist, Speaker, Facilitator, and Executive Coach. She is the founder and CEO of Gallaher Edge[i], which she started in 2013 where she works with busy executives to help you get your arms around the challenges in your organization. They work with you from the inside out, helping your executive team have conversations you didn’t even know you needed to have. They help to increase self-awareness, team alignment, and shared accountability until your organization runs like a well-oiled machine. Organizations (she asserts) are just people.
Her noteworthy career began after the Space Shuttle Columbia exploded upon re-entry in 2003. Following the tragedy, NASA hired Laura and a team of organizational psychologists to change the cultural influences that were deemed to play a role in the accident. She worked for 8 years to positively influence culture, develop leadership capacity, and improve organizational performance at Kennedy Space Center. She holds a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology, and a Masters and PhD in Organizational Psychology. Laura is a Licensed Human Element® Practitioner, a Certified Radical Collaboration Trainer, and a Certified Coach.
Let’s meet Dr. Laura Gallaher, and learn together where we could possibly take our personal and work environments to new heights.
Welcome Dr. Gallaher. Thank you for joining me today. Are you in Orlando now? I know that you have deep roots in the Phoenix area (and lots of places around the world).
INTRO Q: Dr. Gallaher, before asking you questions about your book, and your work, I have to say that there was something that drew me to you, before even looking at your bio. When you first meet someone, I think that what goes on inside us, (our mindset) shows on the outside, and I felt like you had a story to tell of where you began. When did you first learn about the importance of radical self acceptance, and how do you think that we can all use this skill in our personal and professional life?
Q1: While coming up for some questions for you, I watched your TED TALK “How to Feel at Home Anywhere”[ii] where you talk about the ability to discover your inner confidence, and your ability to cope with the world (so that literally any place in the world) can feel like home. What drew you to create this TED TALK?
Q2: It’s interesting to me that your topic was “How to Feel at Home Anywhere” because I’ve thought about this concept often. While I’ve not worked and travelled to the places and countries that you have (other than via Google Maps) I have noticed that I’ve always been comfortable walking into a gym. Now I stopped going to a gym around the time of the pandemic, but I can recall always feeling a sense of belonging, and just the place that would fill me up with those feel-good vibes, when I was on the road, and would walk into a gym. Can you share what’s important for us, as human beings, or the recipe that you’ve discovered, to feel comfortable…and make ANY place feel like home?
Q3: Can we go to the questions that I think can open the door and help all of us, whether we are an employee in a company, a part of a bigger whole, or a teacher in a school, or a member of a team, how can we take this concept of radical self-acceptance to take us to new heights?
Q4: We’ve been focused on taking our results to higher levels on this podcast. How important is what we think on the inside (our mindset with radical self-acceptance) to our results (on the outside)?
Q5: Why are you so passionate about radical self-acceptance? How did NASA help you to uncover the gaps of where you were (actually) and where you wanted to go?
Q6: What is psychological safety and how does it relate to how safe people feel to be vulnerable?
Q7: Have you ever had a 360 Evaluation at work? How about asking your children how you are showing up as a parent? What can you learn from honest feedback from others?
Q8: Dr. Gallaher helps Andrea to dig deeper into feedback that her children gave her. “What bugs me about you, is really about me.”[iii]
Q9: How can we take radical self-acceptance into the workplace?
Q10: Would you say the most critical leadership traits today would be vulnerability and courage?
Q11: What are some stress reduction secrets you can share with us?
Q12: How do we put this all together to become more self-aware?
Dr. Gallaher, I want to thank you for your time meeting with me today. For people who would like to connect with you, I will put your contact information in the show notes. Do you have any final or closing thoughts?
Take the Self-Acceptance Quiz Here https://www.gallaheredge.com/sa-quiz-lp
Andrea received the Pushing but Pressured quadrant that shows high on self-improvement, (which she would agree with) but low on self-acceptance (where she is right now) and she would agree this area could use some work.
Take the Self-Acceptance Quiz to see what quadrant you end up in, and see what you can learn about yourself.
CONNECT with DR. GALLAHER
Join her mailing list https://www.gallaheredge.com/leaders-journey-mailing-list
Website: https://drlauragallaher.com/
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-gallaher-phd/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drlauragallaher/
TED TALK Dr. Gallaher “How to feel at home anywhere” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUxT8wuDsG4
The Missing Links: Launching a High Performing Company Culture Published2021 https://www.amazon.com/Missing-Links-Launching-Performing-Company/dp/1637350880
REFERENCES:
[i] Dr. Laura Gallaher https://drlauragallaher.com/
[ii] TED TALK Dr. Gallaher “How to feel at home anywhere” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUxT8wuDsG4
[iii] https://blog.gallaheredge.com/what-bugs-me-about-you/
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Unveiling Exponential Intelligence with Masati: Transform Your Life by Shifting Frequencies
17 nov 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome to Episode 348 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where host Andrea Samadi explores the intersection of neuroscience, emotional intelligence, and social learning. In this enlightening episode, Andrea introduces us to Masati, a visionary thought leader and the CEO and founder of Exponential Intelligence Science.
Masati delves into the transformative power of dimensional consciousness and frequency manipulation to eliminate human suffering and unlock human potential. With a unique blend of quantum physics and spiritual insight, Masati reveals how altering one's frequency can lead to profound changes in health, wealth, relationships, and spirituality.
Drawing from his extraordinary near-death experiences, Masati shares how these events propelled him to discover a methodology that helps individuals redesign their blueprints for a more fulfilling life. Andrea and Masati discuss the science behind accessing higher dimensions of consciousness, the importance of frequencies in shaping our reality, and practical steps to achieve exponential intelligence.
Join Andrea and Masati as they journey through the realms of quantum physics, altered states, and the profound impact of shifting frequencies on personal transformation. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to elevate their life to new dimensions of success and fulfillment.
On today's episode #348, we meet with Masati on "Unveiling Exponential Intelligence."
Watch our interview on YouTube here https://youtu.be/cXH6-mDO3S0
We will cover:
✔ What is Exponential Intelligence Science and how can we use it to unlock our human potential?
✔ What is Masati's story? How did three near-death experiences lead him towards new abilities like reading frequencies?
✔ What can we learn by blended quantum science with spirituality?
Masati is a visionary thought leader and the CEO and Founder of Xponential Intelligence Science, a groundbreaking field dedicated to the study and application of Dimensional Consciousness for the advancement of humanity. With a profound focus on eliminating human suffering and awakening consciousness, Masati leverages his unique understanding of quantum physics, space-time, and the power of frequencies to guide individuals toward profound transformation. Masati, like many we have met on this podcast, believe that when you can learn how to change your frequency, you can change your life. Through XI, (that we will dive deep into today) Masati works on the core frequency level, helping to redesign and reprogram one's blueprint to materialize fast, tangible results in all areas of life, including health, wealth, relationships, and spirituality. When I first was introduced to Masati, I wondered “where has Masati gained his knowledge and understanding of these concepts we talk about often on the podcast, connecting science to the unknown spiritual world” and I understood the minute I saw his bio. After having experienced three near-death experiences, Masati emerged with extraordinary abilities and knowledge far ahead of our time. These experiences ignited his passion for exploring the deeper realms of human potential, leading him to develop Xponential Intelligence (XI), a transformative methodology that empowers individuals to achieve real-time life changes. If you’ve followed our podcast from the beginning, you will know that I first learned about ways to improve our life and results, through motivational speaker, Bob Proctor,[i] who was an expert at improving our thinking, to achieve new results, specifically with breaking through the paradigms that hold us back. He would always say “to reach new heights, you’ve got to go where you’ve never been…(and this starts) with your imagination first.” (Bob Proctor, The Paradigm Shift Seminar).
When I saw that over the past 14 years, Masati has shared his expertise with a global audience, reaching over 100 countries through his speaking engagements, podcasts, and personal sessions, and that his work has consistently led to life-altering results, with countless testimonials attesting to his ability to clear layers of distortions, awaken latent potential, and manifest abundance effortlessly, I knew I had to meet him. Let’s meet Masati, and learn together about what he means when he says “as you become more XI, or “exponentially intelligent.”
Welcome Masati, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. You’ve reached someone who could spend the next week asking you questions, so I’ve had to narrow them all down, so that those who have not yet met you, will know where to begin,
Intro Question: I’ve heard of people gaining different abilities after ONE near-death experience, and you’ve had THREE! Can you share what you noticed, how did you go from near death, to reading frequencies?[ii]
Q1: The only person I’ve studied, who truly did understand levels of frequency (he called them vibration) was motivational speaker, Bob Proctor. He’s not here anymore, but his teachings left an imprint on the world. He would describe the change in people that was possible over time (through study) by putting food coloring into water, and it’s hard to see the change in the beginning (a few drops don’t change the color of the water) but eventually, the water turns from clear, to red.
Can you explain how you can see a person’s ability (first of all) to change their frequency, I think faster than what doing the hard work that might take years? What do you see with a person (on a certain frequency) that can help them to switch to a better frequency, and have them stay there?
I ask this, because I definitely can see what I’ve always thought of as the potential in others. I just never thought of it as that person existing in another dimension when they jumped to a new level of vibration or frequency.
Q1B: Can we go into the different dimensions? I’m sure most of us here have heard of 3D (where we exist today in the physical world), 4D (I think is the dream world) and 5D (I think where our higher selves exist, in this loving world we go when pass over). Do I have this right? How would you describe the different dimensions in our universe?
Q1C: I’ve got to tell you about this thing I lost once. I never forgot it, as it was the “tool” I use daily, for guidance. When I first moved to Arizona, in early 2001, I attended many classes out here, learning how to use different tools for guidance in life, and one of those tools that I still use today, is a pendulum. I have 2 on my desk, and my favorite one is a rose quartz one. Well, one day, years ago, I lost my pendulum. Now this was something I used to use daily, and it was no where. I searched everywhere, and my good friend Sandy was at my house at the time, and we looked where I usually kept it. We looked through the pockets in my jeans, on the floor, on my dresser. It was no where. We found it in my jeans (that I had checked at least 10x) and she said to me “Andrea, it must have gone to a different dimension.” Can you explain this? What does science say about these “other dimensions?” I never forgot this experience, because it was NOT in my jeans!
Q2: Everyone is searching for the perfect way to stay young these days. There are creams, lotions, potions, and vitamins all geared towards this. Like you, I can see a marked difference in myself over the years. I saw a comparison you did of yourself where you look more youthful now, than you did years ago, and you attribute this to living life on a certain frequency now. I have actually mentioned this with certain guests on the podcast who have changed their lives radically. I mentioned it to a paranormal researcher, Ryan O’Neill, from EP 203[iii] who changed physically when his behavior matched his belief of himself. He agreed. Can you explain how we can physically change our appearance by the way we think, and using XI, create the best possible version of ourselves so when we look back at old photos of ourselves, we don’t even see ourselves as the same person?
Q3B: Mas, after running this podcast, since 2019, and it took a turn torwards health and wellness around the Pandemic time, in 2020, I couldn’t ignore it. I started interviewing people on brain health and this became the focus, in addition to our social and emotional side. Over the years, it’s easy to look at people and see who is “walking their talk” and who is not. It’s taken me some time to get better at walking my talk, but I’m closer now than I’ve ever been. Can you share what you see with “reading people’s frequencies” and when we clean up our own, how this affects how other people see us?
Q4: When you first put your work out into the world in a big way, and launched XI, can you explain how this felt, and how did you find your way to connecting the science to these age-old success principles? I ask this, because I’ve been working on EXACTLY the same concept here, with this podcast. Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning. Someone told me recently, that I don’t need to keep looking for the science. The science is evident with the results. What was your realization with connection science to your work that explains “this is why x happens?”
Q5: What basic principles of quantum mechanics do you think are important for all of us to understand?
Q6: Mas, I’m an open book. I wear my emotions on my sleeve, and think I’m easy to read. In the time we’ve spent here, what can you tell me about what you see with me? If I was to go to your website, and book a private session with you, how would that work? What can I expect from a public vs private session?
Q7: For those who want to learn more about your work, I have put all of your links to your social media, your website, and podcast below. To bring this all together, how would you explain how we can become more XI?
Mas, I want to thank you for joining me today, to share all the incredible, ground-breaking work you have done over the years to advance humanity. I’m grateful to have had this time with you. I know it’s only the beginning….there’s a lot more to learn, taking what our imagination can see to great heights.
Thank you for being here today.
Is your website thexicode.com the best place for people to find you?
References:
Dark Matter TV Series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Matter_(2024_TV_series)
How to Use a Pendulum: Answer Questions, Heal Body and Mind and More by Ronald Bonewitz Jan 1, 2016 https://www.amazon.com/How-Use-Pendulum-Dowsing-Divination/dp/1578635896
CONNECT with MASATI
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/ximasati/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/XImasati
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ximasati/
Website https://thexicode.com/
Podcast https://thexicode.com/podcast
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/massajady
FREE Live Sessions with Mas https://www.youtube.com/user/massajady
ANDREA'S NOTES:
REFERENCES:
[i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #66 with the Legendary Bob Proctor https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/the-legendary-bob-proctor-on/
[ii] From Near Death to Reading Frequencies: Where it All Started https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2H5Ig3BsMo
[iii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #203 with Paranormal Researcher, Ryan O’Neill “On Making Your Vision a Reality” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/case-study-with-paranormal-researcher-ryan-o-neill-on-making-your-vision-a-reality/
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Unlocking the Science of Bias: Mastering Self-Leadership and Cognitive Awareness
3 nov 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we bridge the gap between neuroscience and emotional intelligence to enhance well-being and productivity. In this episode, host Andrea Samadhi continues the 18-week self-leadership series, focusing on the neuroscience of biases as explored in Grant Bosnick's book, "Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership."
Episode 347 delves into Chapter 16, examining cognitive biases through the lens of current neuroscience research. With insights from past episodes and experts like Jenny Woo and Howard Rankin, Andrea highlights the nearly 200 cognitive biases that influence our decision-making. The episode introduces Bosnick's strategies for identifying and managing these biases using Daniel Kahneman's dual-system theory of thinking.
Listeners will learn practical steps to recognize biases, categorize them, and apply thoughtful approaches to mitigate their effects. This exploration aims to enhance self-awareness and improve decision-making processes by leveraging both reflexive and reflective thinking systems.
Join us on this enlightening journey to understand the intricacies of human cognition and prepare for upcoming discussions, including the neuroscience of trust. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to refine their self-leadership skills and cognitive understanding.
On today's EPISODE #347 “The Neuroscience of Biases” we will cover:
✔ A review of past episodes where we covered biases.
✔ Chapter 16 of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership on The Neuroscience of Bias.
✔ A review of our two types of thinking (X-system=reflexive/automatic and C-system=reflective/intentional).
✔ 3 Steps to Understand and Manage our Biases
✔ 4 Strategies for Mitigating our Biases
For Today, EPISODE #347, we are moving on to Chapter 16, reviewing “The Neuroscience Biases” that we first covered on EP 17[i] with Harvard Researcher, Jenny Woo. On this early episode on our podcast, I mentioned I had just learned that there “are almost 200 known cognitive biases and distortions that cause us to think and act irrationally.” (72 Amazing Brain Facts by Deane Alban). Then we explored cognitive biases even further with EP 146 with our FIRST interview with Howard Rankin, on “How Not to Think”[ii] where he explains why "the more we know, the more we realize we know nothing at all." (Howard Rankin).
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[iii], look to see if Biases (in Pathway 6, our final pathway in this book study) along with relationships/authenticity, trust and empathy is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year. I was not surprised to see this pathway is a high area of focus for me. I remember being surprised at how many common problems occur with our human thinking process, and wondered how to be aware of all of these cognitive biases. Learning is a continual process, and awareness that our thinking contains these biases, is the first step towards improving our thinking process.
So what does Grant Bosnick have to say about biases in chapter 16 of his book, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership? He opens the chapter with an exercise that came from Daniel Kahneman’s book, Thinking Fast, and Slow[iv] a book that sold more than 2.6 million copies.
IMAGE CREDIT: (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick).
If you are listening to this episode, look at the image in the show notes, and don’t forget how you went on to solve this puzzle. Read the instructions and then solve the puzzle. It says “spot the error.”
We will come back to the solution at the end of this episode.
Bosnick next goes on to define what cognitive biases are, reminding us they are “mental shortcuts that allow us to quickly sort, categorize and make decisions on pieces of information in order to navigate the world in an efficient way. They can be positive, negative or neutral, although most of us probably associate them with the more negative side.” (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick). Biases Bosnick says “can be conscious” like when you can relate to someone who is similar to you, or they can be “unconscious: we all have them and unknowingly use them to make judgements every day.” (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick).
We did learn from Howard Rankin, that we need to be “careful about how we think” and Bosnick agrees, saying that biases can impact the quality of our thinking, judgements and decisions. (And Bosnick’s advice to us is that) in order to make better judgements and reduce bias, label the biases and mitigate them using appropriate mental and behavioral processes” (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick) that we will examine today.
So What is the Neuroscience of Bias?
Bosnick brings us back to the two systems in our brain that we first saw on EP #345[v] “The Neuroscience of Relationships and Authenticity” where we looked at the neuroscience of our social brain with the famous story of Phineas Gage, Neuroscience’s Most Famous Patient. With this example, Bosnick tells us that “we have two systems in our brain: the X-system and the C-system. The X-system (or reflexive system) is automatic, responsive, like/dislike, reward/threat. Since this part of our brain is non-thinking, it’s not affected by our mental load.
The C-system (or reflective system) is controlled, conscious, with executive function and executive control.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 186). Motivation and effort are required to engage this part of the brain, and it can be affected by our mental load.
X-system (reflexive)=automatic
C-system (reflective) =we need motivation and effort to activate
Remember: Phineas Gage destroyed his C-system (system 2, reflective system) when the iron railroad rod went through his brain, (his controlled thinking was impacted) so he was left operating on X-system only. In other words, he had no control over his automatic, reflexive system, and his behavior became unbearable as a result. He treated everybody as an object for his own personal reward” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 186) without control.
So, going back to the neuroscience of bias, the X-System is where we think on auto-pilot (like Phineas Gage) and is “fast-thinking” (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick, Page 193) and the C-System is “the more deliberate, slow-thinking, reflective system…and is much more demanging on our cognitive resources than the X-system.” (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick, Page 193). Which means, it’s easy to go to automatic reflexive thinking, and much harder to think with our reflective, “high road” intentional and controlled thinking.” Bosnick reminds us that we can’t operate with System 2 all of the time, or we will burn out. We need some automatic thinking to navigate our world.
We all know this. We’ve heard of productivity hacks, like what Steve Jobs did to make life easier by wearing the same clothes all the time. He said this reduced his cognitive load by eliminating the small decisions he had to make. He was putting the load of this small task thinking on his X-reflexive system, to make more space for his C-Reflective system.
Now that we know how our brain operates, going back to these two systems of thinking, Bosnick asks us to think back to the problems he listed at the start of the chapter to see how we went about solving them. I gave one of the two examples of the maze, saying to “spot the error.”
How did YOU solve this puzzle? I’ll tell you what I did? I started looking at the maze, and was looking for where the maze had errors. I couldn’t see any, so figured there was more to what I was looking at than I was seeing. Bosnick shares that the error is in the center of the maze where the instructions say “find the the error.” So I learned that while writing this episode, I’m cognitively busy and reverted back to my X-reflexive system to scan the diagram, and see if I could find the most obvious, easy to spot error.
If I thought this way with this example, where else am I reverting back either consciously, or unconsciously to automatic thinking?
Bosnick’s chapter goes on to explore three out of the almost 200 known biases, and concludes his chapter on ways to manage these biases. He says that “biases are a natural part of the human condition. We cannot get rid of them. Therefore we need to understand them, and manage them.” (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick, Page 193).
He suggests these 3 Steps for Understanding and Managing our Biases:
Accept and admit we are all biased. It’s a natural part of being human. The exercise from Daniel Kahnaman’s book showed me how quickly I reverted back to system x, reflexive, automatic thinking. This self-awareness has helped me to consider where else I make quick judgments, without thinking reflectively.Label the Bias. While Bosnick covered three examples, similarity bias (making quick conclusions about people similar to you), urgency bias (where we put non-urgent tasks on hold to push through to do something that requires our immediate attention), or experience bias (where we believe our perception is the truth and that others who see things differently from us are wrong, knowing there are close to 200 different biases, it’s a start to be aware that our thinking could possibly be flawed.Mitigate the Bias. We aren’t going to solve all of our biases at once, but once we are aware that’s it’s human to have them, we can begin with looking at strategies to mitigate each.
4 Strategies for Mitigating Biases:
SLOW DOWN: Bosnick goes into detail on how to mitigate the top three biases that he listed. The strategy that he used was to step back, slow down and access your Systems 2 reflective thinking to see what you notice. The maze exercise showed me I could benefit from slowing down my thinking and not jump to conclusions.BE MINDFUL: When talking to others, work on “engaging our System 2 thinking…the more mindful we are, the more we can engage our mental brakes, increase self-awareness, reduce emotional impulses, and reduce our susceptibility to unconscious bias.” (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick, Page 212). Being mindful of others will help us to learn to appreciate different perspectives, as well, other people will connect more to us when they can sense we are thinking from their point of view.LEARN FROM OTHER PEOPLE: Talk to others so you can learn “how to get out of our own experience bias and appreciate other people’s perspectives. This will help us to get out of our autopilot, easy route thinking of the urgency bias to have deeper, more robust and deliberate thinking.” (Ch 16, Biases, Bosnick, Page 212).ASK FOR OUTSIDE OPINIONS: Find others you can brainstorm with to come up with fresh ideas to help you to think in a different way. Ask for feedback to gain a new perspective. This is just the beginning of this topic for us here on the podcast. While writing this episode, I had a message from our good friend Horacio Sanchez, third time returning guest from EP 111[vi] who let me know he is releasing a book on this exact topic, coming out March, 2025. We will have him back on for a 4th time, to dive deeper into this topic.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #347 on “The Neuroscience of Bias” we covered:
✔ A review of past episodes where we first talked about biases.
✔ Chapter 16 of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership on The Neuroscience of Bias.
✔ A review of our two types of thinking (X-system=reflexive/automatic and C-system=reflective/intentional).
✔ 3 Steps to Understand and Manage our Biases
✔ 4 Strategies for Mitigating our Biases
This is just the beginning, knowing there are close to 200 known cognitive biases that cause us to think and act irrationally, I know that I’m looking forward to learning more on this topic from Horacio Sanchez, whose forthcoming book will cover this topic.
In the mean time, I’m working on ways to slow my thinking down, and hope that you have found it helpful to take a closer look at how we think.
With that thought, I’ll see you next time, with the Neuroscience of Trust.
Have a great week!
REFERENCES:
[i]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #17 with Harvard Researcher, Jenny Woo https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/harvard-researcher-jenny-woo-on-the-latest-research-brain-facts-and-myths-growth-mindset-memory-and-cognitive-biases/
[ii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #146 with Howard Rankin on “How Not to Think” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/expert-in-psychology-cognitive-neuroscience-and-neurotechnology-howard-rankin-phd-on-how-not-to-think/
[iii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[iv] Daniel Kahneman, Thinking Fast and Slow October 25, 2011
[v] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #345 on “The Neuroscience of Relationships and Authenticity” #17https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/unlocking-authenticity-the-neuroscience-of-relationships/
[vi] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #111 with Horacio Sanchez https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/resiliency-expert-and-author-horacio-sanchez-on-finding-solutions-to-the-poverty-problem/
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The Midlife Shift: Discovering Authenticity and Vulnerability with Mo Issa
27 okt 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, where host Andrea Samadhi connects the dots between neuroscience and emotional intelligence for improved well-being and productivity. In this episode, we dive into a transformative journey with Mo Issa, an inspiring author known for his authentic writing and motivational talks.
Join Andrea as she reconnects with Mo, a long-time supporter of her work, to explore his latest book, The Midlife Shift. Mo shares his personal journey from living a life of success and prestige to finding deeper meaning and authenticity. Through candid conversations, Mo reveals how vulnerability and self-discovery have reshaped his life, offering invaluable insights for those seeking to live their true, authentic selves.
Discover how Mo's experiences with writing, running, and reflection have guided him towards a more fulfilling life. Learn about the importance of embracing vulnerability and simplifying life to enhance self-awareness and personal growth. Whether you're navigating midlife changes or seeking to deepen your self-awareness, this episode provides a profound exploration of living with authenticity and purpose.
Watch our interview on YouTube here https://youtu.be/tr661XZK438
On today's EPISODE #346 “The Midlife Shift: Discovering Authenticity and Vulnerability with Mo Issa” we will cover:
✔ An overview of Mo Issa's forthcoming book: COMING NOV 12th, 2024 to Amazon
✔ Mo will share his personal journey from living a life of success and prestige to finding deeper meaning and authenticity.
✔ Mo reveals how vulnerability and self-discovery have reshaped his life, offering invaluable insights for those seeking to live their true, authentic selves.
✔ Andrea and Mo explore ways we can all dive deeper, embrace vulnerability and simplify life to enhance self-awareness and personal growth.
On today's episode #346 we meet with someone I’ve known over the years. It was about 10 years ago, that I was connected to our next guest through our mutual friend, motivational speaker, Bob Proctor. At the time, I had no idea how much of a supporter to my work, he would be over the years, and he’s one of the influencers who has helped me to discover, and live on my own authentic path. He was one of the first to use our curriculum for teenagers for a soccer school he ran in Accra, Ghana, and his belief and trust in me, helped me to see this in myself. We never forget those who have helped us along this journey called life, and I’m forever grateful to have met Mo Issa[i], when I was starting out on my journey of self-discovery, where I left the corporate world for a 10-year period, to make an impact in our schools.
Over the years I followed Mo’s work, specifically his writing, which until reading his book, that we will cover today, The Midlife Shift[ii], I had no idea how much Mo’s writing would inspire me, to keep going (learning and growing) on my own path. Right on the front page of his website, you can read his own words. He says “I am a writer who believes when we find ourselves stuck in life it is because we lack meaning and don’t feel challenged. (In his books, essays and podcasts, he encourages) making small changes to embrace self-discovery, simplify life, and focus on a deep sense of fulfillment.” (Mo Issa)
Let’s meet Mo Issa, an author of three books, who has spoken regularly at conferences and workshops, including TEDx Accra Conference[iii], someone who has read 50 books per year, for the past 10 years, and see what we can learn about living our true authentic life, and improve our own self-awareness in this discovery process.
Welcome Mo Issa!! It’s been a long time since we have spoken, thank you for coming on the podcast, and sharing your work with us. I can’t even tell you how much your writing specifically has helped me over the years. This is an important and special interview. Thank you for being here.
INTRO: For our audience who might not yet know your work, and what brought you to this place now where you started with weekly articles, to publishing three books, that to me can help us all on our own personal journey of “living our best life?” Where did this journey begin for you, leading to The Midlife Shift book that we are covering today?
Q1: Mo, I’m remembering what you said to me when we were first began planning this recording…you said to me “I’m so happy and inspired that you have the one thing that gets you up every morning.”
I did…and then routines changed with the move to a new location and this is the first recording I’ve done since the end of September. I had to take some time to get organized in my life outside this recording studio, so I wonder, for someone who has traveled and moved around a lot, how do you make sure you don’t lose that thing that inspires you every day?”
Q2: I don’t remember when I saw your TEDx Talk “Rich, Successful, Strong, Yet Empty” but I’m guessing it was around 2015. I knew you as a strong and serious business leader, who worked closely with Bob Proctor, and spent some of your time giving back to help young people learn these success principles that we just weren’t taught in school. I remember being surprised that you thought maybe you had been living life wrong. Can you take us back to how you were living life, and what did you discover was missing? How did you pinpoint it for you?
Q3: At what point did you question your identity (how the world saw you) vs the person who craved a less lavish lifestyle?
Q4: These are all really deep concepts, but you wrote about how “the inner journey is long and endless, but it’s a human one.” I could spend the whole time on just this concept. You also wrote about how “the unexamined life is not worth living.” Can you explain where your “journey of the mind” began, and where did it take you?
Q5: You also write about craving “creativity, presence, simplicity, vulnerability and authenticity.” Again, more deep concepts. I remember years ago you asked me to think about what authenticity meant to me, and I found the notes I wrote about this topic on my phone back in 2021. I wrote a whole bunch of paragraphs on this topic, but the main idea was “living who I am by design.” I know that when I’m not doing the things that make me feel alive, I’m not my best self. I wonder what was it about this topic of authenticity that drew you in?
Q6: When you wrote that writing helped you to “Express the depths of your soul and allowed your muted voice to speak, the better you connected with people around the world.”
This is deep! How can we all learn what’s within our soul FIRST, and then how can we become brave enough to “express the depths of our soul?” Where did you begin to take this journey?
Q7: We’ve taken a deep dive into creativity and our brain on this podcast with Jose Silva’s work, specifically in PART 4[iv] of this series. What about creativity? What do you do to become more creative?
Q8: I’ve spent most of the past week reading Chapter 4 of your book on “Unlocking the Power of Vulnerability” and related to the whole chapter. There’s times during interviews that I just can’t hold the tears in, and I’ve got better at just embracing it all, and not trying to hide my emotions. Can you share how it is coming from a strong male point of view, on not being afraid now to show your emotional side, and what this has done for you?
Q9: I wonder if we could talk about this one paragraph from chapter 4. You wrote:
“We all need to have that one thing at our core a vehicle for going deep into our essence, exploring the mysterious places of our hearts, venturing into our pasts and confronting painful moments stored away in our subconsciouses, which somehow in the writing process had bubbled to the surface”
How did writing, coined with running, help you to become more self-aware, see the real you and allow you to dive deep into the essence of yourself, exploring all of the mysteries in your heart?
Q10: What have I missed here? How would you summarize your mission with your work? How can people reach you?
Mo, I want to thank you for supporting my work all those years ago, when I was just starting out on my own path of self-discovery. I’m still looking for answers, and am grateful to have stayed connected over the years. I’ll be sure to share the best way for people to connect with you, and buy your book The MidLife Shift.
FOLLOW MO ISSA
Website: www.mo-issa.com
FINAL THOUGHTS
I knew this episode was important for me, as reading through Mo’s book, I could see where I knew I had more work to do. As I’m working on ways to become more vulnerable with my family, it really didn’t take much, and I can already see changes occurring.
Watch for The Midlife Shift to come out on Amazon November 12th, 2024, and I highly recommend reading each chapter, take notes at what resonates with you, and then look for the action steps you can personally take to gain more self-awareness in your own journey of the mind.
I’ll see you next episode as we continue back with our final chapters of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership.
REFERENCES:
[i] https://www.mo-issa.com/about
[ii] The Midlife Shift: How I Left the Ratrace and Found Myself by Mo Issa https://www.mo-issa.com/book
[iii] Rich, successful, strong—yet empty. Mohammed Issa TEDx Accra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO801NKR0Cc
[iv]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #261 “The Neuroscience Behind the Silva Method: PART 4 Improving Creativity and Innovation in our Schools, Sports and Workplaces”
https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/the-neuroscience-behind-the-silva-method-improving-creativity-and-innovation-in-our-schools-sports-and-modern-workplaces/
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Unlocking Authenticity: The Neuroscience of Relationships
29 sep 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast! In episode 345, we continue our 18-week self-leadership series based on Grant Bosnick's tailored approaches. This week, we dive into Chapter 15, exploring the neuroscience of relationships and authenticity.
We revisit key insights on relationship-building from past episodes and introduce the concept of authenticity, drawing on reflections from Andrea Samadi and insights from Mohamed Issa's forthcoming book. Learn what authenticity means, how it impacts our lives, and practical steps for fostering genuine connections with others.
Discover the balance between the reflexive and reflective systems in our brain, and how understanding these can enhance our social interactions. Reflect on your unique gifts and talents, and find out how to nurture them to build deeper, more authentic relationships.
Join us for an enlightening episode that blends neuroscience with practical advice, helping you to live a more authentic life and improve your personal and professional relationships.
On today's episode #345 we continue with our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) tied to the most current neuroscience research, that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights in 2024.
On today's EPISODE #345 “The Neuroscience of Relationships and Authenticity” we will cover:
✔ A review of one of our FIRST interviews, with Greg Wolcott EP #7, July 2019 on his book Significant 72
✔ Ch. 15 from Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership book on “Relationships and Authenticity
✔ A review of Mo Issa’s definition of Authenticity from his book, The Shift: How to Awaken to the Aliveness Within
✔ The Neuroscience of Our Social Brain
✔ 4 Steps to Building More Authentic Relationships
For Today, EPISODE #345, we are moving on to Chapter 15, reviewing “The Neuroscience of Relationships and Authenticity.” We’ve covered relationships on this podcast, right back to the beginning, with Greg Wolcott EP #7, (July 2019) with his book Significant 72: Unleashing the Power of Relationships in Today’s Classrooms. Greg Wolcott, an Assistant Superintendent from Chicago, IL, has dedicated his life to this topic through his work at Signficant72.com.[iii] It’s here where you can learn more about Greg’s Relationship Mindset Movement, his book, tools, and resources to improve student-teacher relationships in the classroom. Relationships are also one of the six social and emotional competencies that we built our podcast framework upon, knowing how important relationship skills are for our well-being and future success. “Social relationships—both quantity and quality—affect mental health, health behavior, physical health, and (even our) mortality risk.”[iv]
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[v], look to see if Relationships and Authenticity (in Pathway 6, our final pathway in this book study) along with biases, trust and empathy is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year. I was not surprised to see this pathway is a high area of focus for me.
While we have covered relationship building often on this podcast, the one topic we have NOT covered yet is authenticity. This is interesting timing for me, as I’m currently reading a book by a good friend, Mohammed Issa[vi], where he covers the topic of authenticity, in depth. It’s the title of chapter 8 of his forthcoming book, The Midlife Shift[vii] (Reclaiming My Authenticity). I remember years before Mo wrote this book, I could tell he was thinking deeply about this topic. In 2021 he sent me a message, and asked me “what does living an authentic life mean to you?”
I take questions from Mo seriously over the years. I know he’s not messing around. I can go back to my notes from 2021 and I can see that I wrote a few pages of “what authenticity means to me.” These notes are important for today’s episode, and when we meet with Mo the middle of next month.
I wrote: Authenticity: is being genuine or real.
What’s authentic for me personally—it’s living life according to my values. And this takes ongoing refinement. I know what’s important and what drives me daily (health is at the top of my value chart, and I’d never compromise it—it’s first, what I focus on the minute I wake up, and close my eyes at the end of each day). Living life authentically for me, is putting health as my backbone of strength, which I’ve found helps me to skyrocket my personal and professional life. It’s been this way for me, for as long as I can remember.
Living an authentic original life: means living who I am by design.
After health, I prioritize what unique expressions I want in my life—growth/challenge (come next) and these things that I value make me authentic/and uniquely me. I have to fight for these values in my life—to go after them, and keep them at my forefront, because only I know what’s best for me here. If I’m not putting health first, (for myself and my family) or learning, growing, researching, and then disseminating/sharing what I’ve learned, I’m not living my true authentic self. It will hurt my productivity if I compromise who I am, at this granular level.
I took some time off from producing episodes earlier this year, and while it was great to have this extra time, I ended up using this time for things that didn’t truly make me happy at the soul level, like this work does.
What about you?
What does authenticity mean to you?How do you know when you are living a truly authentic life? It’s eye-opening once we know this about ourselves, so we can course correct, when we veer off this path of authenticity.Do you know what is special about you? What are your unique gift/talent that makes you stand out from others? A talent that you know deep inside that you must keep working and perfecting, as it’s this talent that awakens your aliveness?
I love how Mo Issa defines authenticity, which shows up as a theme in all his books. After years of self-reflection, Mo believes that “true authenticity means being ourselves—not an imitation of what we think we should be or what others want us to be. We all have a unique gift, and we must find and nurture it.” (Mo Issa, The Shift).
Getting back to Chapter 15 of Grant Bosnick’s book; what does he have to say about being authentic? Bosnick says that before we can build authentic relationships with others, he has us consider what authenticity means to us first.
He says that being authentic is: “being real, being honest and true with yourself, being vulnerable, letting go of your own ego, looking not only at what you like about yourself, but also the “darker part that can be improved or changed (I’ve heard this called our “shadow work”) and having the courage, humility, and discipline to take a hard look in the mirror at who you are.” (Chapter 15, Relationships, Bosnick).
Bosnick covers what holds us back from being authentic and he lists: “fear of being vulnerable, fear of rejection, fear of judgment, fear of abandonment, competitiveness, insecurity, self-protection, jealousy, fear of not being good enough” well I pretty much resonated with the entire list. Some of his list more than others, but right up there, for me, would be “fear of not being good enough” which I’ve been working on for the past 25 years.
When I let go, finally, of caring what other people think of me, it was probably the most freeing experience I’ve ever felt. Sure, it’s nice to be liked by others, but also, to know that not everyone will connect with who I am, the authentic me, and to let go of caring about that, is freeing.
Being Authentic:
What does this mean to you? Do any of the items on Bosnick’s list keep you from being truly authentic? He asks us some reflection questions:
What might be holding you back from being truly authentic?What can you do, even small steps, to help you feel more comfortable with being who you are? Being truly authentic?
Being Fake or Superficial
Bosnick goes on to describe why some people show up as fake or superficial. I always think of the character Eddie Haskel from the TV Show Leave it to Beaver when I’m thinking of a “fake” person. He was always trying to impress Mrs. Cleaver, and he came across as insincere. We can all spot people like this, and Bosnick reminds us of why people can come across this way. He says that “it’s in our comfort zone, we want to be liked, it’s easier, our ego gets in the way (and that change can be difficult) when we don’t have the courage, humility and discipline needed to take a hard look in the mirror at who we are.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 177).
What are some reasons for not being authentic?
Bosnick thinks “insecurity, jealousy, inner competitiveness, fear, self-protection” can keep us from not showing others our true selves, and in turn, we can appear fake or superficial. Brene Brown writes about The Power of Vulnerability[viii] as the “birthplace of joy, belonging, authenticity and love” in her 2012 book, with suggestions for how to prevent us from appearing fake in this process. Her book teaches us “how to practice courage, and accept imperfection, to embrace vulnerability and acknowledge our fears.”[ix] She dives into exploring the power of authenticity, of being true to our feelings, thoughts, and actions as the backbone to living an authentic life.
With this in mind, going back to Bosnick’s book, he mentions that he struggled with being vulnerable, with letting others see his true authentic self, and felt he needed to protect himself, but when he “let people see the real me. It was so rewarding and felt so good (and) freeing (so he then) decided to have the courage to be authentic and real.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 177) He was fully aware that some people might not like him, but he knew that was ok, as he knew he would build the right relationships, with those who did.
Reflection on Being Authentic
He then asks the reader to reflect:
What holds you back from truly being authentic?How can you become more comfortable with being authentic?
I went back to Mo Issa’s definition that we covered in the beginning of this episode that “true authenticity means being ourselves—not an imitation of what we think we should be or what others want us to be. We all have a unique gift, and we must find and nurture it.” (Mo Issa, The Shift).
We will go deeper into Mo Issa’s work when we meet with him next month, but I think that this is what we are supposed to discover about ourselves (FIRST) through self-awareness, and only then, (once we are clear on who we are) can we build more authentic relationships with others.
To close out Bosnick’s chapter 15, on relationships and authenticity, he does cover being self-focused vs other-focused, valuing differences, overcoming our own egos, and putting other people first, which was the theme of Simon Sinek’s famous book, Leaders Eat Last.[x] Simon Sinek penned this book when he noticed that some teams trusted each other so deeply that they would literally put their lives on the line for each other. Other teams, no matter what incentives were offered, were doomed to infighting, fragmentation and failure. Why Sinek wondered? Well, the answer became clear during a conversation with a Marine Corps general who said "Officers eat last." Sinek watched as the most junior Marines ate first while the most senior Marines took their place at the back of the line. Great leaders sacrifice their own comfort--even their own survival--for the good of those in their care.
Bosnick calls this “other focused” and reminds us that “in order to build truly authentic relationships, we need to overcome our own ego and put others first.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 182). Bosnick does cover the different needs of extroverts and introverts, that we have covered on EP 186[xi] as well as different behavioral styles that can help us to learn how to better interact with other people who have different “styles” than we do.
The Neuroscience of Our Social Brain
To close out chapter 15, Bosnick goes into the Neuroscience of Our “Social Brain” and covers the story of the famous Phineas Gage, Neuroscience’s Most Famous Patient.[xii] Without going too deep into the neuroscience, Bosnick explains that “we have two systems in our brain: the X-system and the C-system. The X-system (or reflexive system) is automatic, responsive, like/dislike, reward/threat. Since this part of our brain is non-thinking, it’s not affected by our mental load.
The C-system (or reflective system) is controlled, conscious, with executive function and executive control.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 186). Motivation and effort are required to engage this part of the brain, and it can be affected by our mental load.
X-system (reflexive)=automatic
C-system (reflective) =we need motivation and effort to activate
The story of Phineas Gage goes like this: “in 1948 in the United States, (he) survived a blast while building a railroad, which shot a tamping iron through the front part of his brain. Remarkably, he survived. However, his behavior had changed. Where before, he was a mild-tempered, respecting person, his behavior was now to seek reward without consequences, operating only by habit, (and he turned) rude…He destroyed the C-system, (his controlled thinking) operating on X-system only. In other words, he had no control over his automatic, reflexive system, and his behavior became unbearable as a result. He treated everybody as an object for his own personal reward.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 186).
The C-system, (that requires motivation and effort to activate) Bosnick explains, is important for self-reflection and understanding self/other relations and occurs in the front (middle) part of our brain. We know this part of our brain as the Default Mode Network[xiii], and the part of our brain where we take breaks for creativity, thinking and learning to occur. He adds to our understanding here by saying that “when the brain is at a resting state, this specific system kicks in, which is focused around social understanding (thinking about yourself, others’ thoughts, others’ actions etc.).”
Bosnick reminds us to “stare out the window and do nothing and (says) your life will thank you, and it will help you to build more authentic relationships. This was the whole idea behind EP 48[xiv], on Using Brain Network Theory to Stay Productive During Times of Chaos.
Bosnick Reminds Us to Go Slow to Go Fast
I can’t even tell you how many times I have heard the phrase “go slow, to go fast” this week, and here it is at the end of chapter 15. Bosnick says that “in order to build truly authentic relationships with people, we need to go slow, to go fast.” He suggests that we “slow down the conversation with people, truly listen to them empathetically and be fully present with them. This will build the relationship to be deeper…go slow with the conversation and communication in order to go fast with the depth of the relationship.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 187).
Reflection Activity: Building More Authentic Relationships
Bosnick suggests the following reflection activity for building more authentic relationships.
Think of a person in your business, or personal life, that you would like to build a more authentic relationship with.How would you describe them? Are they introverted/extroverted? What are their behavior styles? How do they approach authenticity and relationships?Let your brain go into your Default Mode Network. Stare out of a window and think: what could you do to build a more authentic relationship with each of the people you are thinking of? How can you go slow to go fast?I will add one final step, that came from the quote from Mo Issa and suggest that once we have done the work ourselves, and know what makes us truly authentic, we know our own unique gifts and talents, and we continue to nurture and grow them, we can next look outward, and recognize the unique talents and gifts in others. We covered this practice extensively on EP 214 with Dr. Marie Gervais[xv], by learning to see the “spirit” in others.
I’m confident that by practicing these steps, with each person we want to build a deeper, more authentic relationship with, (whether in our personal or professional lives) that we will notice strides of improvement, once we have identified and appreciated our own authenticity and uniqueness. Then, we can recognize it in others for the magic to occur.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #345 on “The Neuroscience of Relationships and Authenticity” we covered:
✔ Mo Issa’s definition of authenticity from his book The Shift: How to Awaken the Aliveness from Within
Mo believes that “true authenticity means being ourselves—not an imitation of what we think we should be or what others want us to be. We all have a unique gift, and we must find and nurture it.” (Mo Issa, The Shift).
✔ Andrea’s reflection from 2021 when Mo Issa asked her “what does authenticity mean to you?”
What’s authentic for me—it’s living life according to my values. Living who I am by design. If I’m not putting health first, (for myself and my family) or learning, growing, researching, and then disseminating/sharing what I’ve learned, I’m not living my true authentic self. It will hurt my productivity if I compromise who I am, at this granular level.
✔ We ask the reader to consider: What makes YOU authentic?
✔ How do you know when you are living a truly authentic life?
✔ Have you identified your unique gifts or talents that make you stand out from others?
✔ Do you know what might be holding you back from being truly authentic?
✔ The Neuroscience of Our Social Brain
“We have two systems in our brain: the X-system and the C-system. The X-system (or reflexive system) is automatic, responsive, like/dislike, reward/threat.
The C-system (or reflective system) is controlled, conscious, with executive function and executive control.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 186). Motivation and effort are required to engage this part of the brain.
The story of Phineas Gage who destroyed the C-system, in his brain and was operating on X-system only. In other words he had no control over his automatic, reflexive system, and his behavior became unbearable as a result.
The C-system, (that requires motivation and effort to activate) we learned, is important for self-reflection and understanding self/other. We know this part of our brain as the Default Mode Network[xvi], and the part of our brain where we take breaks for creativity, thinking and learning to occur.
“When the brain is at a resting state, this specific system kicks in, which is focused around social understanding (thinking about yourself, others’ thoughts, others’ actions etc.).” We learned to get into this resting state by “staring out of a window and do nothing (except reflecting on what else we can do to improve our relationships) and this knowledge that we uncover will help us to build more authentic relationships. We learned to slow down the conversation with people, truly listen to them empathetically and be fully present with them. This will build the relationship to be deeper…go slow with the conversation and communication in order to go fast with the depth of the relationship.” (Chapter 15, Bosnick, Page 186).
✔ 4 Steps to Building More Authentic Relationships
Think of a person in your business, or personal life, that you would like to build a more authentic relationship with. Get to know them on a deeper level. How would you describe them? Are they introverted/extroverted? How do they approach authenticity and relationships? Let your brain go into your Default Mode Network. Stare out of a window and think: what could you do to build a more authentic relationship with each of the people you are thinking of? How can you go slow with your conversation to go fast with the depth of the relationship? And finally, we looked at the quote from Mo Issa that suggests that once we have done the work ourselves, and know what makes us truly authentic, once we know our own unique gifts and talents, and we continue to nurture and grow them, next, we can look outward, and recognize the unique talents and gifts in others.
I will close out this episode with a quote from Mo Issa’s second book, The Shift that says “we all have a primal need to belong—a human urge to be part of something larger than us. We fulfill that need when we connect authentically to exchange energy and feel seen, heard and valued.” (Mo Issa)
Let me know what you think. Did this episode help you to improve your authenticity, and deepen your relationships?
I know this episode will take time to practice and refine. It’s taken me my lifetime so far to fully embrace my unique talents and gifts, where I recognize my own authenticity. Now I’ve got the rest of my life to take this understanding and help me to build stronger, deeper relationships with others.
And with that thought, I’ll see you next time where we will cover chapter 16 from Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, on biases.
REFERENCES:
[i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #7 with Greg Wolcott on “Building Relationships in Today’s Classrooms” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/greg-wolcott-on-building-relationships-in-todays-classrooms/
[iii] www.significant72.com
[iv] Social Relationships and Health: A Flashpoint for Health Policy Published August 4, 2011, by Debra Umberson and Jennifer Karas Montez https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3150158/
[v] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[vi] www.mo-issa.com
[vii] The Midlife Shift by Mo Issa https://www.mo-issa.com/book (COMING SOON).
[viii] The Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Power-of-Vulnerability-Audiobook/
[ix] The Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown https://www.blinkist.com/en/books/the-power-of-vulnerability-en
[x] Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek 2014, https://www.amazon.com/Leaders-Eat-Last-Together-Others/dp/1591845327
[xi] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE 186 on “Using Neuroscience to Understand the Introverted vs Extroverted Brain” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-fact-friday-on-using-neuroscience-to-understand-the-introverted-and-extroverted-brain/
[xii]Phineas Gage, Neuroscience’s Most Famous Patient https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/phineas-gage-neurosciences-most-famous-patient-11390067/
[xiii] Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast EPISODE #48 “Brain Network Theory” https://www.achieveit360.com/brain-network-theory-using-neuroscience-to-stay-productive-during-times-of-change-and-chaos/
[xiv] IBID
[xv]Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast EPISODE #214 on “The Spirit of Work: Connecting Science and Business Practices and Sacred Texts for a Happier and Healthier Workplace” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/marie-gervais-phd-on-the-spirit-of-work-connecting-science-business-practices-and-sacred-texts-for-a-happier-and-more-productive-workplace/
[xvi] Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast EPISODE #48 “Brain Network Theory” https://www.achieveit360.com/brain-network-theory-using-neuroscience-to-stay-productive-during-times-of-change-and-chaos/
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The Neuroscience of Resilience: Building Stronger Minds and Teams: Insights from Grant Upbeat Bosnick (Chapter 14)
15 sep 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity, and results using practical neuroscience.
In Episode 344, we continue with our 18-week self-leadership series, diving into Chapter 14 of Grant Bosnick's book to explore the neuroscience of resiliency. We revisit past episodes with Horacio Sanchez to understand the factors that contribute to resilience and discuss the intriguing analogies presented by Bosnick, including the donkey in the well and the carrot, egg, and coffee bean story.
Learn how to build resilience within yourself and your teams by focusing on Patrick Lencioni's five functions of a high-performing team. Discover how developing willpower, a crucial faculty of the mind, can enhance your ability to overcome adversity. We also delve into new research on the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, a brain region associated with willpower and resilience.
Join us as we uncover strategies to harness resilience, strengthen our brains, and emerge stronger from life's challenges. Don't miss this insightful episode that equips you with the tools to face adversity head-on and lead with resilience.
On today's EPISODE #344 “The Neuroscience of Resilience: Building Stronger Minds and Teams” we will cover:
✔ A review of past EP 74 and EP 286 on “Building Resiliency, Grit and Mental Toughness”
✔ A review of Horacio Sanchez’s work on resiliency: protective vs risk factors.
✔ Ch. 14 from Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership book with 2 intriguing analogies presented by Bosnick, including the donkey in the well and the carrot, egg, and coffee bean story.
✔ Learn how to build resilience within yourself and your teams by focusing on Patrick Lencioni's five functions of a high-performing team. Discover how developing willpower, a crucial faculty of the mind, can enhance your ability to overcome adversity.
✔ Discover how developing willpower, a crucial faculty of the mind, can enhance your ability to overcome adversity.
✔ We also delve into new research on the anterior mid-cingulate cortex, a brain region associated with willpower and resilience.
For Today, EPISODE #344, we are moving on to Chapter 14, reviewing “The Neuroscience of Resiliency,” a topic we have covered a few times on this podcast, way back with Horacio Sanchez, who named his Educational Consulting Business Resiliency Inc. back on EP #74[i] and then we did a deep dive Brain Fact Friday on EP #286 “Building Resiliency, Grit and Mental Toughness.”[ii] On this episode we reviewed Horacio Sanchez’s definition of resiliency as “a collection of protective risk factors that you have in your life” and that there are some factors we are born with, and others come in through childhood, family, school, life events and social experiences.
Horacio reminds us that “if you have little risk, it takes less to be resilient. But—if you have a lot of risk, it takes a lot more protective factors to offset the scale.” This is why two people can possibly respond in two completely different ways after a traumatic experience. One person walks away, dusts themselves off, and recovers quickly, (they had more reservoirs of resilience to tap into) while the other has a completely different outcome, and needs more assistance to get back on track.
With resiliency, we can overcome adversity or difficulty and have good outcomes in our life, but you can see why not everyone is born with exactly the same protective factors needed, so we don’t all have the same levels of resiliency. Horacio mentioned that “25% of the population are naturally resilient” and his work focuses on instilling this trait in those who are not naturally resilient due to the number of risk factors associated to them. To this day, he continues with his mission, flying around the country, helping our next generation of students to become more resilient.
Resiliency came out as a low priority for me with the with 0% (Pathway 5) along with Change and Agility, and it makes more sense to me now that I understand the protective and risk factors that I faced growing up as a child, from my family, from school, life and social events. When I review the list, I can see that I was fortunate to have more protective factors, than risk.
IMAGE FROM EP 74 with Horacio Sanchez.
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[iii], look to see if Resilience (in Pathway 5) along with change and agility, is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year.
If you haven’t listened to EP 74, or 286, where we dove deeper into the building resiliency, grit and mental toughness, I highly encourage that you listen to both of these episodes, in addition to what we will uncover today on resiliency.
So what does Grant Bosnick have to say about building resilience in ourselves, and our teams in chapter 14 of his book? He opens up the chapter with a situation with a farmer and his donkey, who had fallen into a hole in the ground, (a well) and couldn’t get out. Finally, after trying to get the donkey out, he gave up, and decided to shovel dirt into the well, since the donkey was old, and not worth saving. At first Grant writes that the donkey cried with the dirt being shoveled onto him, until he eventually stopped and was quiet. When the farmer looked into the hole he was amazed at what he saw. With each shovel of dirt, the donkey would shake it off his back, and use the dirt to climb up higher, until he was able to easily step out of the hole and trot off happily.
What Grant is showing us at the start of this chapter is that we all will have dirt shoveled on our backs in our life, and “that we can either get buried in the dirt or shake it off and take a step up. Each adversity we face is a stepping stone, and we can get out of the deepest wells by shaking off the dirt and taking a step up.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 160).
There was another analogy in Grant’s book that I liked, about a carrot, an egg and a cup of coffee. The story went like this. There was a young woman who went to her mother one day, complaining the things were difficult for her with her life. Her mother took her into the kitchen and filled three pots with water, and placed them on the elements, bringing each one to a boil. One pot she placed carrots in, the second, an egg and the third one, coffee beans. After 20 minutes, she asked her daughter what she saw. Her mother’s explanation was eye-opening.
She explained to her daughter that “each of these objects faced the same adversity—boiling water. Each reacted differently. The carrot went in strong, hard and unrelenting. However, after being subjected to the boiling water, it was softer and became weak. The egg was fragile…but after being in the boiling water, it’s inside became hardened. The ground coffee beans were unique, however. (Bosnick writes that) after being in the boiling water, they changed the water…(and the mother asked her daughter) when adversity faces you, how do you respond? Are you a carrot, an egg or a coffee bean?” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 161).
Grant asks the reader of his book to think about this question. Which one would you pick? “Are you the carrot that seems strong but with pain and adversity (wilted) and became soft, losing its strength? Are you the egg that starts with a soft heart, but hardens with the heat? Or are you like the coffee bean that actually changes the hot water, the very circumstance that (brought) the pain?” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 161). I’m hoping that we all desire to experience change with the adversity we face.
Bosnick gives two real-life examples of famous people who took their pain, and changed for the better, because of it. Terry Fox, a distance runner from British Columbia, Canada was his first example and Kawhi (Ka-why) Leonard, a professional basketball player from the NBA. You can look up these stories, if you don’t know them already. Growing up in Canada, I remember Terry Fox’s story well. Terry Fox took the pain of a cancer diagnosis that led to one of his legs being amputated and replaced with an artificial leg, and rather than giving up, or becoming hard or soft, he changed the situation with his Marathon of Hope. It was “first held in 1981, and has now grown to involve millions of participants in over 60 countries and is now the world’s largest one-day fundraiser for cancer research, with over $750 million Canadian dollars raised in his name.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 162).
Bosnick reminds us that “resilience is not only about bouncing back from adversity, but rather it is about surviving and thriving through the stress caused by the adversity, and changing our situation to make it better.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 162).
Building Resilience in Ourselves and Then with Our Teams
After Bosnick focused on building resilience in ourselves, he went on to show how to build resilience in our teams, and he mentioned a book, that we have recently talked about with mediation expert John Ford, from EP 340.[iv] I love making connections with past episodes, and when I read Bosnick mention The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni[v], I went straight back to that episode with John Ford. In chapter 14, Bosnick outlines “the five dysfunctions of teams: absence of trust, fear of conflict, lack of commitment, avoidance of accountability, and inattention to results. (Next he outlines) the five functions of a high performing team: trust, absence of fear of conflict, commitment, accountability and attention to results.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 170).
Bosnick writes that “when we feel accountable and have attention to results, we adopt a mindset or attitude of control, which enables us to take direct, hands-on action to transform changes, adversities and the problems that they may cause…If we believe that we can influence the outcome of an adverse situation, we are more apt to push ourselves to deal with it. If the opposite is true, we may question our ability to turn adversity around and stop trying.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 171).
When I think of a recent time that I faced adversity, and had to be resilient in the process, if I didn’t think it would be possible for me to be successful, there is no way I would have persevered. Each individual on a team must have this mindset, as they go through change and adversity. The focus must be on Lencioni’s work: “building a high functioning team—with trust, absence of fear of conflict, commitment, accountability and attention to results—(that) will lead to proactive behaviors and increase our own (personal) resilience and the resilience in our team.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 171).
Bosnick offers a reflection activity in Chapter 14 where he asks the reader to:
Think of an adverse situation that you are facing at the moment (could be in your work or personal life).Consider how this situation is making you feel. I’m going to add that if you feel like the situation is in control of you, then you are not going to win. You’ ve got to be confident that YOU are in control of whatever it is that you are going through.How can you adopt a more prosocial mindset to see the adversity as opportunity to make things better for yourself and others? Thinking of the carrots, the egg and the coffee bean. What will it take to get you to become the coffee bean?How can you help yourself and your team to be more high functioning? Thinking of Lencioni’s 5 Dysfunctions of a Team, how will you help your team to move towards trust, absence of fear of conflict, commitment, accountability and attention to results?
Developing Our Will to Overcome Adversity:
What will it REALLY take for you to become more resilient and overcome adversity? It will take a highly developed Will Power. We have talked about how to develop this faculty of our mind on EP #294[vi] where we dove deep into the 6 Faculties of our Mind, with our Will Power being one of them. I do highly recommend listening to this episode if you want to review these important faculties.
Since I can always use a refresher myself, I’ll highlight what we covered on this important faculty that we will need to develop, to overcome adversity.
YOUR WILL: This is one of my favorite faculties. (out of the 6: along with our ability to reason, use our intuition, perception, memory and imagination). This one (The use of the Will) gives you the ability to concentrate. While sitting down to write this episode, I’ve gotten up from my desk a few times, but I’m determined to finish writing this, so I can record and release this today. That’s the will at work. You can also use the will to hold a thought on the screen of your mind, or choose thoughts of success, over thoughts of failure. OR-use the power of your Will to overcome the adversity you face, like Terry Fox, or Kawhi (Ka-why) Leonard. If you have a highly evolved will, you’ll lock into doing something, block out all distractions, and accomplish what you set out to do.
HOW TO DEVELOP THIS FACULTY TO OVERCOME CHALLENGE OR ADVERSITY?
Developing the will takes practice. Meditation can strengthen your will, but so can staring at a candle flame until you and the flame become one. I tried this activity in my late 20s, and remember it was a few hours of staring at this candle flame, before I was able to block out the distractions of the outside world, and the flame extended towards me. This faculty, like the others, takes time and practice, but once you’ve developed this faculty, you’ll know you have the ability to sit, focus, and do anything. An extension of this activity would be that once you and the flame have become one, try to change the color of the flame. In your head say “blue, blue, blue” and watch the color of the flame turn to blue. Pick a different color and see if you can quickly change the color of the flame from blue, to red, to orange, to whatever color you think of.” This activity will strengthen your will.
BRINGING IN THE NEUROSCIENCE:
It was here that I wondered what neuroscience has to say about this topic. We have covered The Neuroscience of Resiliency on past episodes, but we have not yet covered some new research that Dr. Andrew Huberman discovered this past year about what happens to our brain when we have a highly developed Will Power, that we will need to overcome adversity and challenge. This new research actually made famous scientist jump out of his chair.
DID YOU KNOW that there is a part of the brain called “the Anterior mid cingulate cortex. This area is not just one of the seats of willpower but scientists think it holds the secret in “the will to live?”[vii]
When I first heard about this part of the brain, I knew it was important for overcoming adversity, and helping us to become more resilient.
Scientists discovered that this part in the brain increases in size when we do something we don’t want do, like exercising when we would rather not, or diet or resist eating something we know is bad for us, when we would rather eat the old way.
Dr. Huberman shared on this eye-opening episode with his guest, David Goggins that “when people do anything that they don’t want to do, it’s not about adding more work, it’s about adding more work that you don’t want to do, this brain area gets bigger.” This part of the brain is larger in athletes, larger in people who overcome challenge, and as long as people continue to “do difficult things” this area of the brain keeps its size.
To me, this shows that building resilience in ourselves and our teams is not just good for whatever challenge we are looking to overcome, but we are building stronger, more resilient brains: specifically, stronger anterior mid cingulate cortexes.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #344 on “The Neuroscience Behind Building Resilience in Yourself and Your Teams” we covered:
A review of EP 74 and 286 where we covered the Neuroscience of Resilience with Horacio Sanchez’s work reminding us that our protective or risk factors in our lifetime, will determine how resilient we will be in our life. While 25% of the population are naturally resilient, Horacio asserts that “if you have little risk, it takes less to be resilient. But—if you have a lot of risk, it takes a lot more protective factors to offset the scale.” Horacio has dedicated his life to helping our next generation become more resilient.Next we looked at Grant Bosnick’s book, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership (Chapter 14) where he gave us the analogy of the donkey who fell into the well, and demonstrated resiliency when he used the dirt shoveled on him, to climb out. This example taught us that we all will have dirt shoveled on our backs in our life, and “that we can either get buried in the dirt or shake it off and take a step up. Each adversity we face is a stepping stone, and we can get out of the deepest wells by shaking off the dirt and taking a step up.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 160).Another analogy we learned was through the mother and daughter story, and that when adversity faces you, Bosnick asks us to reflect. “Are you the carrot that seems strong but with pain and adversity (wilted) and became soft, losing its strength? Are you the egg that starts with a soft heart, but hardens with the heat? Or are you like the coffee bean that actually changes the hot water, the very circumstance that (brought) the pain?” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 161). I’m hoping that we all desire to experience change with the adversity we face, like the coffee bean.After learning about building resiliency in ourselves, we learned about building resiliency within our teams, and looked at Patrick Lencioni’s The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. The absence of trust, fear of conflict, lack of commitment, avoidance of accountability, and inattention to results. Then we learned to turn this around, using the five functions of a high performing team: trust, absence of fear of conflict, commitment, accountability and attention to results.” (Chapter 14, Resilience, Bosnick, Page 170).Then we looked at how we develop resiliency, using our Will Power from EP 294 where I shared an activity to strengthen this faculty of our mind either through meditation, or with an activity of staring at a candle flame, and with time, effort and sheer will power, blocking out everything else around you, until you and the candle flame become one.Finally, we looked at the fascinating new neuroscience behind the part of our brain (the anterior mid cingulate cortex) that becomes bigger when we use our will power to do those things we don’t want to do. Scientists believe this ability to use our will power to do difficult things, which builds our resiliency, is what’s really behind the will to live.
I hope you’ve found this episode on building resilience in yourself and your teams as valuable as I have, and that when challenge comes our way in the future, that we continue to lean into it, using every ounce of our will power, and become a coffee bean, emerging stronger than the challenge we faced, and knowing that this process is building a part of our brain (our anterior mid cingulate cortex) to be bigger, helping us to continue to do difficult things in our future.
With that thought, I’ll close out this episode and see you next time, with two interviews coming, to help us to continue to build stronger versions of ourselves this year. I’ll see you next week.
REFERENCES:
[i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #74 with Horacio Sanchez on “How to Apply Brain Science to Improve Instruction and School Climate” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/leading-brain-science-and-resiliency-expert-horatio-sanchez-on-how-to-apply-brain-science-to-improve-instruction-and-school-climate/
[ii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #286 on “Building Resiliency, Grit and Mental Toughness” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-fact-friday-on-building-resiliency-grit-and-mental-toughness/
[iii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[iv] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #340 “Navigating Workplace Conflicts: Insights from a Mediation Expert, John Ford” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/navigating-workplace-conflicts-insights-from-a-mediation-expert/
[v] The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni Published April 11, 2002 https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756
[vi]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #294 “Beyond Our 5 Senses: Using the 6 Faculties of our Mind” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/beyond-our-5-senses-understanding-and-using-the-six-higher-faculties-of-our-mind/
[vii] How to Build Will Power Dr. Andrew Huberman with David Goggins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84dYijIpWjQ
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Unlocking Brain Health: Insights from a Leading Neuro-Ophthalmologist Dr. Sui Wong
31 aug 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast! In episode #343, host Andrea Samadi interviews Dr. Sui Wong, a renowned neurologist and neuro-ophthalmologist based in London, UK. With over 110 peer-reviewed publications and extensive research in mindfulness-based cognitive therapy, Dr. Wong shares her holistic approach to improving brain health and patient outcomes.
Discover the science behind visual snow syndrome, the impact of lifestyle-specific interventions, and the connection between eye health and neurological disorders like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Dr. Wong also delves into the importance of mindfulness, nutrition, sleep, and a balanced lifestyle in enhancing overall well-being. Join us for an insightful conversation that bridges neuroscience with practical strategies for everyday life.
Don't miss this episode filled with valuable insights and actionable tips to help you thrive. Welcome, Dr. Sui Wong!
Watch our interview on YouTube here https://youtu.be/GwR82IYJTbE
EPISODE #343 with Dr. Sui Wong on “Unlocking Brain Health: Insights from a Leading Neuro-Ophlamologist we will cover:
✔ Dr. Sui Wong's career path in medicine, that led her to write 4 books to help her patients (and the world) improve their brain health.
✔ How understanding our eye health can help us to prevent neurological disorders (like Alzheimer's Disease) in the future.
✔ What we should all understand about our eye health for improved health and longevity.
✔ What common neuro-ophthalmology cases she sees.
✔ Why did she introduce Mindfulness into a study on Visual Snow Syndrome?
✔ What would Dr. Wong add to our list of Top 6 Health Staples?
✔ How to learn from Dr. Wong, and find her books.
On today's episode #343 we meet with Dr. Sui H. Wong, a Neurologist and Neuro-Ophthalmologist based in London, United Kingdom. In addition to her clinical work as a medical doctor and physician, Dr. Wong is an active neuroscience researcher, who translates pertinent and clinically relevant questions into research, to improve person-centred patient outcomes. Additionally, she has the qualifications and experience to consider a broader spectrum of lifestyle-specific interventions. Dr Wong’s holistic approach in empowering patients has been recognized with many awards, and this is just the beginning for her.
When I was introduced to Dr. Wong, an active neuroscience researcher with a mission of translating important clinically relevant questions into research for improved person-centred patient outcomes, I knew I had to speak with her. She is a widely published author and researcher with over 110+ peer-reviewed publications in medical journals, chapters and conference abstracts, to date.
I looked at the articles Dr. Wong has published, and one caught my eye. She’s done extensive research that you can find in Ophthalmology Journals, like a recent article that I’m going to paraphrase, but it was called Visual Snow Syndrome (which is a neurological condition where individuals see persistent flickering white, black, transparent or colored dots across the whole visual field) After Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy.[i] We have spent some time on this podcast walking through Pubmed.gov, and if you go there, and put Mindfulness into the search bar, you will come up with over 30,000 results.
Let’s meet Dr. Sui Wong, and see what we can learn from her decades of research and her thoughts on what lifestyle-specific interventions she recommends.
Welcome Dr. Wong, thank you for coming on the podcast today, and meeting me, all the way from the UK (where I was born)(Worthing, Sussex). Welcome.
Q1: Can you give us an overview of why you chose this path and ended up in Neuro-Ophthalmology with an explanation of what you do with your work?
Q2: How can understanding our eye health help us to prevent neurological disorders in the future? We’ve covered Alzheimer’s Prevention strategies and I wonder what you would with the importance of our brain health?
Q3: I listened to a recent podcast you did on Neuro Podcases and while I don’t have a case for you, I’ll tell you I had a scary eye experience years ago? It turned out to be an ocular migraine, but I seriously thought I was going blind. Before I spoke to my doctor, I had no idea what this was, and that it was nothing to worry about. What do you recommend we ALL learn and understand about our eye health for improved health and longevity?
Q3B: Is there a connection between migraines in our head, and our gut-brain axis?
Q4: What are some common neuro-ophthalmology cases you see?
Q5: I looked at your research and one of your publications drew my attention. It was the Visual Snow Syndrome study that improved with Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy. Since we talk about Mindfulness often on this podcast, can you share what this study revealed? What can we all take away from the power of Mindfulness?
Q6: What advice would you give us outside of this list that we’ve created from all our interviews, of the TOP 6 health staples to boost our physical, and mental heath, helping us to age gracefully, and how much of our health do you think has to do our brain health?
Q7: For people to reach you, what is the best way? What services do you provide?
Q8: Anything I have missed?
Dr. Wong, I want to thank you for your time, meeting with me today, and helping us to all make the connection with our brain health, and longevity.
RESOURCES AND CONNECT WITH DR. SUI WONG
Thursday Tips-Bitesize brain health tips to thrive: bit.ly/drwongbrainhealth
Website for Dr. Wong’s books: https://www.drsuiwongmd.com/books
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drsuiwong.neurologist/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-sui-wong-neurologist/
Mindfulness for Brain Health (in paperback/ hardcover/ Kindle/ audiobook)https://books2read.com/u/4XNXAgBreak Free from Migraines Naturally (in paperback/ hardcover/ Kindle/ audiobook)https://books2read.com/u/bwgG5ZSleep Better to Thrive (in paperback/ Kindle/ audiobook)books2read.com/u/mv0XQ2Quit Ultra-Processed Foods Now (in paperback/ Kindle/ audiobook)https://books2read.com/u/m27M21
Email [email protected]
REFERENCES:
[i] Visual Snow Syndrome Improves with Modulation of Resting-State Functional MRI Connectivity After Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy published by Sui H Wong, et al, March 2024 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37967050/
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Mastering Mental and Physical Agility: Strategies for Self-Leadership Insights from Grant Upbeat Bosnick (Chapter 13)
25 aug 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast! In episode 342, we continue our 18-week self-leadership series inspired by Grant Bosnick's book, diving deep into Chapter 13, which focuses on the neuroscience of agility.
Join Andrea Samadi as she explores how physical and mental agility play critical roles in our ability to handle sudden changes and stressors. Discover practical strategies to enhance your mental agility, build resilience, and thrive in the face of adversity.
This episode not only highlights the importance of maintaining physical fitness but also delves into the science behind mental flexibility. Learn how to identify and manage your stressors, strengthen your neural pathways, and become anti-fragile in both your personal and professional life.
Stay tuned for insights from neuroscientist Tara Swart and actionable tips to improve your brain's agility, ensuring you are better prepared to navigate life's challenges. Don't miss this enlightening episode and the upcoming interview with Dr. Sui Wong on resilience!
On today's episode #342 we continue with our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) tied to the most current neuroscience research, that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights in 2024. So far, it’s taken us 8 months to cover the first 13 chapters thoroughly, and we still have 6 chapters to go. After this week on agility, we have chapter 14 on resilience, 15 on relationships and authenticity, 16 on biases, 17 on trust, 18 on empathy and the final chapter 19 (and one of my target areas to focus on this year), the topic of presence. When we finish each of these chapters, we will put them all together, with a review of each one, in one place. It really has surprised me that a thorough study of this book will take the entire year to complete.
On today's EPISODE #342 we will cover:
✔ The Neuroscience of Mental and Physical Agility
✔ An overview of our personal and professional stressors
✔ Why being antifragile can help us overcome life’s obstacles and challenges
✔ Characteristics of an Agile Brain
✔ 6 Pathways of an Agile Brain
✔ 4 STEPS to Developing an Agile Brain for Future Problem Solving Success
For Today, EPISODE #342, we are moving on to Chapter 13, covering “The Neuroscience of Agility” which came out as a low priority for me with the with 0% (Pathway 5) along with Change and Resilience. If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[ii], look to see if Agility (in Pathway 5) along with change and resilience, is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year.
I was surprised to see this topic showing up with a low priority, not because this topic is something that I don’t think about daily, but it was when I read the first few paragraphs of Grant Bosnick’s chapter 13, on Agility, where I was reminded that we are talking about physical agility, in addition to mental agility, and as I’m getting older, I notice this area requires extra effort to stay on top of. While the self-assessment says this is not an area of focus for me, it’s one of my TOP priorities at the moment.
Grant Bosnick opens up this chapter by talking about a basketball player who pivots by “maintaining one foot having contact with the ground without changing its position on the floor and utilizes the other foot to rotate their body to improve position while in possession of the basketball. In life and business, when we are faced with a change or challenge immediately in front of us (Bosnick says) it is the same.” (Chapter 13, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership). He reminds us that “in basketball, to be agile and pivot, a player needs to be physically fit and have strong ankles, otherwise they may injure themselves in the moment of stopping suddenly.
Reading this paragraph took me back to my 20s when I was a teacher in Toronto. I loved basketball. So much so that I spent some of my weekends being trained as a basketball coach where I learned drills directly from one of the Toronto Raptor’s coaches themselves. I remember taking these drills to a boy’s PE class, and watched in amazement at the skill of these young men, playing a sport, where I honestly thought there were players in that PE class who should have gone pro. I watched them pivot, and move in ways that I knew I never could. One student worked with me after class, trying to teach me to walk and pass the ball through my legs at the same time, and after an hour, I just gave up. It took these young athletes many years of practice outside of their gym time to develop these skills. Thinking back now, to those days, a few decades later, I know that while I don’t have the same physical agility as I did years ago, and I definitely can’t walk and pass a basketball through my legs at the same time, I still put exercise at the top of my list, and know that when I put in the time here, this helps (not hurts) my ability to pivot maybe not like those basketball players, but enough to be prepared physically, to handle sudden change that inevitably will come my way in life. And while I know that we can’t all be at the same level physically, (depending on the amount of time we can dedicate here) we ALL have the same advantage when it comes to the ability to strengthen our mental agility.
This is where Grant Bosnick takes us in his book, reminding us that “in business or life, when we are faced with a challenge or a change that makes us stop suddenly in our course of action. At that moment, we need to have mental agility to be strong in that moment… (reminding us that) we all face stressors and challenges in life. We need to push through, adapt and thrive in the moment, so that we can pivot, see the opportunities and come out even stronger on the other side.” (Chapter 13, Bosnick, Page 145)
Stressors and Triggers
Bosnick covers “various stressors or triggers that may cause us to stop our course of action (with) ways to improve our mental agility and ability to pivot.” (Chapter 13, Bosnick, Page 145).
On Table 13.1 Bosnick lists common stressors in the workplace, in our personal lives and I think he’s got ALL of the stressors covered. I looked at what is currently stressing me out (in my work and personal life) and they are ALL on Bosnick’s list in some form. I think that it’s easy to get overwhelmed with work and personal stressors, that I even forgot about daily stressors like traffic, or road closures, not having enough time for the daily exercise, or things that are important to us, or those days where I fall short on sleep, and know I’ll pay for it somehow.
Bosnick does tie chapter 9 on emotion regulation into this chapter, with strategies to overcome our daily life stress, and when we look at the Neuroscience of Mental Agility next, we will connect emotion regulation with a strategy from Tara Swart, MD, PhD, a neuroscientist and author of The Source: The Secrets of the Universe, the Science of the Brain for improving and strengthening our neural pathways, to improve our brain agility (or mental agility).
Before we can strengthen our mental agility, it helps to know what is stressing us out. I was actually talking about this during the week with one of my good friends from high school. We throw ideas back and forth, and I mentioned that as certain stressors were piling up in my daily life, I was getting to the “end of my rope with them.” She gave me a good analogy, and shared that we can pile up all of our stressors on a book shelf, until we reach our breaking point, and the book shelf breaks. I think it’s good to be aware of our breaking points, and how much we can handle at once. Bosnick suggests an activity where we identify all of our stressors.
IDENTIFYING OUR STRESSORS
First, look at the stressors on Bosnick’s list, (Table 13.1) and see if you can identify what is stressing you out. I think these days we can also circle workload, and lack of time in our work day, and I’ve circled injury with my girls who are both facing injuries from competitive gymnastics at the moment. Look and see what your stressors are.Bosnick suggests next to uncover the magnitude of these stressors by rating them on a scale of 1-5.
Here’s where our mental agility comes into play. Bosnick introduces three terms from the book Antifragile by N Taleb[iii] where there are three types of systems, organizations or people.
The fragile: which is like an egg and breaks under stress. No one wants to be labeled as fragile.The robust: which is like a phoenix, when destroyed comes back exactly as it was before. This is a step in the right direction, but who wants to emerge from challenge the same as before?The antifragile: gets stronger from uncertainty—like the Hydra from the Greek myth where you cut off one head, two grows back in its place. It gets stronger from the sudden change.
When we face challenges, changes and stressors, we need to become antifragile in the process according to Grant Bosnick. He also mentions resilience that we will cover next in chapter 14, and have covered this topic often on this podcast[iv] with EP 135 “Using Recovery to Become Resilient to Physical, Mental and Emotional Stressors.” This episode came from some of the biggest AHA moment from EPISODE #134[v] with Kristen Holmes, the VP of Performance Science of WHOOP[i], a wearable personal fitness and health coach that measures sleep, strain, and recovery.
Bosnick, in chapter 13 cover specifically how to grow from adversity, sustaining our peak performance, and that what we want to take away from this chapter is how to “train our brain to be antifragile in order to be more agile in the moment when we face challenges or stressors.” (Chapter 13, Bosnick, Page 149)
HOW DO WE IMPROVE OUR PHYSICAL AND MENTAL AGILITY?
Bosnick does talk about the importance of maintaining “a healthy lifestyle, with proper amounts of sleep, food, water and physical fitness. This will increase your energy and mental alertness” (Chapter 13, Bosnick, Page 151) so that when something comes our way, unexpectedly, we can be better prepared, or more agile which will help us to be “prepared to withstand the shock.” (Chapter 13, Bosnick, Page 150). He also talks about the importance of taking the time to rest and recover by going for a walk, practicing yoga, or meditating. We’ve gone deep into the Top 6 Health Staples Scientifically Proven to Boost Our Physical and Mental Health[vi] that will provide us with the mental strength “to withstand our stressors in the first place, just like a basketball player needs to have physical strength to withstand the sudden stop.” (Chapter 13, Bosnick, Page 150).
Bosnick also suggests “yet another way to improve our mental well-being and strength is to find meaning in what we do (and that) by aligning personal meaning and doing what matters most, we will create a focus and a source of energy that can help us cut through a lot of the chaos. We did cover this topic with Chapter 2 on Goals[vii] and Chapter 3 Inspiration and Motivation[viii].
Bosnick does cover more strategies in Chapter 13 including overshooting, mental self-talk, and the importance of anticipating the future with examples that I know we’ve mentioned before on this podcast, with neuroscientist Friederike Fabritius, who wrote about Wayne Gretsky’s ability to think ahead of the hockey puck. Bosnick shares that “Wayne Gretsky, the greatest ice hockey player in history, once said “I don’t go where the puck is; I go where the puck will be.” And this, Bosnick reminds us “is what we need to think in order to get through these stressors or obstacles and find the opportunities on the other side.” (Chapter 13, Bosnick, Page 156) anticipating and directing ourselves to where we want to be.
Bosnick has us think of ways that we can adapt and manage ourselves through change, urging us to overshoot to strengthen our mental muscles which can endure more than we think, with strategies that include learning to become more optimistic.
It was here that I wondered what else could we learn about the neuroscience of agility (specifically mental agility where we all have the same ability, since we all have a brain) and I wondered if there was a way that would allow us to use our brain to work FOR us, rather than against us, and the answer came when I found Tara Swart MD, PhD, a neuroscientist and author of The Source: The Secrets of the Universe, the Science of the Brain. The answer came to me with her definition of “Mental Agility.”
What Is Mental Agility?
Tara Swart opens up her book, The Source, with a paragraph written by Charles Haanel, from 1919, (you can tell from the language that this was written over 100 years ago) in her Epigraph that reads:
“Some men seem to attract success, power, wealth, attainment with very little conscious effort; while others conquer with great difficulty; still others fail altogether to reach their ambitions, desires and ideals. Why is this so? The cause cannot be physical…hence mind must be the creative force, must constitute the sole difference between men. It is mind which overcomes environment and every other obstacle...”
Tara Swart says that “Mental agility is the ability to switch between tasks and between different ways of thinking, such as logical, emotional, creative, intuitive, physical, or motivational.”
She says that mental agility “also enhances the way you respond to stress and your capacity to keep multiple options open, allowing you to make your thoughts and emotions work for you during challenging tactical or physical events.”
In many ways, mental agility boils down to being flexible and not so hard on yourself, whether life gets in the way of your goals (like with any of the stressors from Bosnick’s list) or you encounter personal slip-ups in your day to day life. We’ve all been there, but how we persevere through all of this is a sign of mental agility.
Tara Swart wrote this book to offer an up-to-date, scientifically backed method for retraining the brain to direct our actions and emotions to lead us towards our deepest dreams and goals. She shows us how to take control of our own brain, and this powerful understanding took her nine years of college, seven years of practicing psychiatry and ten years of being an executive coach to get to this point.
In chapter 5 of The Source, Swart lists an activity to help us to improve our Mental (Brain) Agility by learning to “nimbly switch between different ways of thinking.” (Chapter 5, The Source, Page 109).
Swart reminds us that we are all “perfectly capable to assessing more of our brain power more of the time. We don’t because we don’t realize how brilliant, flexible, and agile our brain can be.” (Chapter 5, The Source, Page 109).
DID YOU KNOW THAT “an agile brain is one where each of our neural pathways is adequately developed?”
An agile brain Swart says can:
Focus intensely and efficiently on one task at a timeThink in many different ways about the same situation or problemSwitch gradually between these different ways of thinkingFuse ideas from differing cognitive pathways to create integrated solutionsThink in a balanced way, rather than thinking rigidly (or logical) for example.
What is Swart’s Whole-Brain Approach to Brain Agility?
(IMAGE CREDIT: Credit by Andrea Samadi from Chapter 3, Brain Agility, The Source, Tara Swart).
Swart lists 6 ways of thinking that correlate with a simplified version of that neural pathway in the brain.
HOW AGILE IS YOUR BRAIN?
Swart next suggests that we try this activity to see how agile (or balanced) our brain is to see where our strengths are, as well as areas for improvement.
STEP 1: Draw a circle in a notebook, and give yourself 100% to start of with in the center with “Your Source”
STEP 2: Draw the arms for each of the 6 areas that correlate with brain agility. Emotions, Physicality, Intuition, Motivation, Logic and Creativity.
STEP 3: Call to mind one of your stressors (personal, or work) and rate how much of your brain power went towards each area.
STEP 4: Look to see how effectively you draw from your brain’s resources during times of stress. Did you allocate more energy to certain areas, and less to others?
Swart reminds us that we don’t need to have balance in all areas, but it’s important to “feel strong enough in all the pathways, as well as knowing what your key strengths are.” (Ch 3, The Source, Page 115).
EXAMPLE:
From Andrea: You can see my example in the show notes with a sports injury with both my children that is definitely one of my stressors.
INTUITION 50%
While dealing with anything stressful, I notice that I go straight to my intuition first. Before was even told about each of my daughter’s injuries, I could tell by looking at their facial expressions, and body language that the injuries were important for me to take seriously.
PHYSICALITY 20%
Once I have the intuitive feeling, next I’ll feel something in the pit of my stomach that tells me (to go straight to the ER) or whether we can wait the injury out with some time.
EMOTIONS 10%
While I’m always working on mastering my emotions, it’s impossible for me to hide what I’m feeling. When I’m serious, you will see it on my face.
CREATIVITY 10%
Next I’m thinking of ways to solve the problem, (the injury) and what we will need to do for a speedy recovery.
MOTIVATION 5%
This pathways keeps me focused on the end result
LOGIC 5%
I don’t need to get x-rays or wait for a doctor to tell me the results. While I know that my husband would lean this way first, I rely on different pathways in the brain while under pressure.
If you can take ONE of your stressors, and do this activity, you will learn what pathways in your brain are your strengths. Most people, Swart says have 2 or 3 pathways that they favor, 2 they draw on while under pressure and 2 they don’t use much, if at all.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #342 on “The Neuroscience of Agility” we looked at Chapter 13 of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership uncovering our top work, personal and everyday life stressors.
Next, we rated our stressors on a scale of 1-5 to uncover the magnitude of what stresses us out on a daily basis.
We looked at three terms from the book Antifragile by N Taleb[ix] where there are three types of systems, organizations or people.
The fragile: which is like an egg and breaks under stress. No one wants to be labeled as fragile.The robust: which is like a phoenix, when destroyed comes back exactly as it was before. This is a step in the right direction, but who wants to emerge from challenge the same as before?The antifragile: gets stronger from uncertainty—like the Hydra from the Greek myth where you cut off one head, two grows back in its place. It gets stronger from the sudden change.
We learned that when we face challenges, changes and stressors, we want to become antifragile in the process so that we grow from adversity, and become stronger in the process.
Finally, we looked at Mental Agility, with Tara Swart’s whole-brain approach from her book, The Source, by taking one of our stressors, and rating how much of our brain power we use while problem solving. I highly encourage this activity to notice which pathways you favor during problem solving, which ones you go to while under pressure and which ones you don’t use at all.
The goal with this episode was to show us that while physical agility is important, it’s our mental agility that some, like Charles Haanel, from 1919, believe “overcomes environment and every other obstacle.”
While I will always keep the TOP 6 health staples at the top of my mind to improve my physical agility, I’ll end this episode with a quote from our ALL-TIME most listened to episode from November 2022 on “Applying the Silva Method for Improved Creativity, Intuition and Focus”[x] that has now over 9K downloads.
I hope you have found some valuable insights in this episode, and we will see you next week, with an interview with neuroscientist Dr. Sui Wong, and then chapter 14 on resilience.
See you next week.
REFERENCES:
[i]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[iii] Antifragile by Nassim Taleb Published Jan. 28, 2014 https://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Disorder-Incerto/dp/0812979680
[iv] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #135 “Using Recovery to Become Resilient to Physical, Mental and Emotional Stressors” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-fact-friday-using-recovery-to-become-resilient-to-physical-mental-and-emotional-stressors/
[v] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #134 with Kristen Holmes, VP of Performance Science of WHOOP.com on “Unlocking a Better You: Measuring Sleep, Recovery and Strain” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/kristen-holmes-from-whoopcom-on-unlocking-a-better-you-measuring-sleep-recovery-and-strain/
[vi] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast BONUS EPISODE “Top 5 Health Staples” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/bonus-episode-a-deep-dive-into-the-top-5-health-staples-and-review-of-seasons-1-4/
[vii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #323 “Using Neuroscience to Level Up Our 2024 Goals” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-season-11-of-the-neuroscience-meets-sel-podcast/
[viii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #324 on “The Neuroscience of Inspiration and Motivation” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/a-self-leadership-series/
[ix] Antifragile by Nassim Taleb Published Jan. 28, 2014 https://www.amazon.com/Antifragile-Things-That-Disorder-Incerto/dp/0812979680
[x] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast PART 1 “Applying the Silva Method for Improved Intuition, Creativity and Focus” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/a-deep-dive-with-andrea-samadi-into-applying-the-silva-method-for-improved-intuition-creativity-and-focus-part-1/
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Unlocking the Power of Soul Health: A Conversation with Pam Buchanan
11 aug 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast! In this enlightening episode, we delve into the intersection of neuroscience, corporate innovation, and soul health with Pam Buchanan, founder of QuantumSense. Pam shares her journey from the high-paced boardrooms of Silicon Valley to exploring the concept of soul health, which she believes is crucial for achieving true well-being and productivity.
Watch our interview on YouTube here https://youtu.be/4SNJuB3hfEg
Throughout her career, Pam has been at the forefront of innovation, from introducing mutual funds to the banking industry to working alongside visionaries like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg at NASDAQ. Now, through QuantumSense, she aims to bring the concept of soul health to the masses, offering programs that help reduce anxiety, increase energy, and boost overall life satisfaction.
Join us as we explore how practical neuroscience can be integrated with soul health to create a paradigm shift in the workplace and beyond. Pam shares actionable insights and tools that you can start using today to improve your energy levels and overall well-being. Don't miss this thought-provoking discussion that could redefine how you approach your mental, physical, and soul health.
For more information, visit our website and stay tuned for more episodes that bridge the gap between science and practical application.
EPISODE #341 with Pam Buchanan on “Unlocking the Power of Soul Health” we will cover:
✔ How practical neuroscience can be integrated with soul health to create a paradigm shift in the workplace and beyond.
✔ Actionable tools you can start using today to improve your energy levels and overall well-being.
✔ Ideas to BEGIN thinking about soul health, in addition to our physical and mental health.
On today's episode #341, we welcome Pam Buchanan, founder of Quantum Sense, a consulting agency for the new paradigm, something we talk about often on this podcast.
After Pam took an introspective look at how she was able to perform throughout her career – which required her to be able to keep up with the pace of Silicon Valley – she accredited her successes to more than physical and mental health. She began what would be over a decade of research and self-examination to eventually define this as Soul Health. Throughout her personal and professional life, Pam has a long-history of being at the forefront of innovation. She was among the first to bring mutual funds to the banking industry in the 80s, and she identified unicorn startups to take to the public markets.Prior to starting Quantum Sense, Pam served as a Managing Director at Nasdaq for 15 years and was responsible for identifying, building, and maintaining relationships with pre-IPO, companies, founders, c-level executives, venture capital and private equity firms. It is in this role where she was in the boardrooms and minds of some of the world’s greatest innovators including Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. Pam understands how the corporate mindset has evolved over the past few decades and is ready to lead the next evolution through Soul Health. Now, as the Founder of Quantum Sense, Pam is drawing from her wide-ranging experience and ability to distill and convey complex concepts to bring Soul Health to the masses. She has developed programs and services designed for companies proven to help their employees reduce anxiety, increase energy, create focus, boost creativity and ultimately improve their overall satisfaction in the office and life.
If you look at the direction our podcast is taking, you will see that while I’m always looking for ways to connect the most current brain research to improve our productivity and results, I am also extremely wide open to what else is out there. What else could we all be thinking, and doing, that might be a paradigm shift from our old ways of thinking in the workplace, but ways that will be necessary for us to ALL reach these higher levels of achievement. Ways to understand and improve our own Soul Health.
Let’s meet Pam Buchanan, and learn more about the fascinating intersection she has discovered with neuroscience and corporate innovation, through the lens of Soul Heath.
Welcome Pam! You have no idea just how timely it is that we are meeting. I have been diving into this topic, after being interviewed recently on some other podcasts that focus on this topic, and this is an area of interest for me right now. Welcome, and it’s an honor to have you on the podcast today.
Q1: When I looked at your background, which is impressive, but it also reminded me of my Mom, who spent years in the financial industry (life insurance) when her heart was in education. She made money, but ultimately, not living her soul purpose for her career led her to many health issues (like Cancer) over the years. It was impossible for me to miss that there was something off with the daily stress she had to led to her health issues. Can you share what led you to go from the fast-paced boardroom, working with some of the world’s greatest innovators like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, to helping others to improve their Soul Health? Where did this shift begin for you?
Q2: It’s interesting to me that you’ve attributed your past success to more than just physical and mental health. I relate to this, as I’m interested in both of those areas (and the Top Health Staples[i] that drive our performance) but there is a side of me that is the driver behind all the success that I’ve seen over the years, and it’s the spiritual side of me. Or like you say, our Soul Health. What was it for you that helped you to notice the importance of your soul health, and unlocking the depths of your soul’s energy? How did you begin to introduce Soul Health to the corporate world?
Q3: In your decade of research, I wonder who did you study to learn more about this important area of yourself?
Q4: Reducing anxiety, increasing energy, boosting creativity, these are all areas I’m exploring at the moment. Finding NEW tools to do this so that I’m refreshed at the end of a work day, instead of drained. What have you learned that can help us all to embrace our soul/spiritual side, and this new paradigm of work/life balance?
Q4B: What tools are you using? (I’ve recently had my aura read, and it picked up where my energy levels are operating…not far off from what I know about myself from the usual DISC or Myers Briggs Assessments. It picked out my mental state in my working environment and how I’m coming across to others.
Q5: I know that there have been leaps forward in advancements in the workplace, where meditation and mindfulness are now common areas to reduce stress, whereas 10 years ago, these topics were left out of the Corporate World. What are you seeing with your work? Where are we now with talking about this side of ourselves in the workplace? What is the future of soul health to you?
Q5B: Where should we all begin to improve our soul health?
Q6: What services do you provide and how can people learn more about your work?
Q7: What have I missed? Is there anything else that’s important that you would like to share?
Pam, I want to thank you for joining me on the podcast. You’ve added credibility to an area that I know doesn’t need it, but your background and experience could help others bridge the gap into looking at this side of their health. Their Soul Health.
For people to learn more about you, what is the best place?
CONNECT WITH PAM BUCHANAN
Website: https://thequantumsense.com/ and www.senseforward.co
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/pam-buchanan/
[email protected]
RESOURCES:
The Consciousness of the Way with San Qing (Podcast Andrea mentions at 7:35) https://www.instagram.com/theway_126/
Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning EP 307 with Dr. Konstantin Korotkov “Bridging the Spiritual World with Rigorous Scientific Method” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/dr-konstantinkorotkov-on-bridging-thespiritualworld-with-rigorousscientific-method-methodtappingintothe-powerof-our-thoughtsenergy-fieldsandlimitless/
Sylvia Brown Secret Societies and How They Affect Our Lives Today January 1, 2009 https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Societies-Affect-Lives-Today/dp/1401916767
Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning EP 207 with Greg Link “Unleashing Greatness with Neuroscience, SEL, Trust and the 7 Habits” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/co-founder-of-coveylink-greg-link-on-unleashing-greatness-with-neuroscience-sel-trust-and-the-7-habits/
REFERENCES:
[i] Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast Bonus Episode on The Top 5 Health Staples https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/bonus-episode-a-deep-dive-into-the-top-5-health-staples-and-review-of-seasons-1-4/
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Navigating Workplace Conflicts: Insights from a Mediation Expert, John Ford
3 aug 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast! In episode number 340, host Andrea Samadi speaks with John Ford, an experienced workplace mediator and author of "Peace at Work: The HR Manager's Guide to Workplace Mediation." With a wealth of expertise in conflict resolution, emotional intelligence, and soft skills training, John shares his journey from practicing law to becoming a mediator. He discusses the importance of trust, effective communication, and addressing conflict head-on in both personal and professional settings. Discover practical tools like talking sticks and empathy cards, and learn how to apply neuroscience and emotional intelligence to navigate conflicts and improve workplace dynamics. Don't miss this insightful conversation that bridges the gap between science and everyday application!
Watch our interview here https://youtu.be/NShwQio_QAk
EPISODE #340 with John Ford on “Peace at Work: Connecting Emotional Intelligence to Conflict Resolution” we will cover:
✔ The importance of acquiring Emotional Intelligence Skills for conflict resolution in our workplaces of the future.
✔ The influencers who inspired John Ford's work (Daniel Goleman, John Gottman, Ken Cloke and many more.
✔ Tools and resources to support Conflict Resolution in our workplaces.
On today's episode #340, we welcome John Ford[i] BA. LLB (UCT) Founder, Author of Peace at Work: the HR Manager’s Guide to Workplace Mediation, who is an experienced workplace mediator and works as a Conflict Resolution Coach and Workplace Mediator. He’s also a past president of the Association for Dispute Resolution of Northern California and served as managing editor for Mediate.com for over 10 years. Currently, he teaches negotiation and mediation through UC Law SF (formerly UC Hastings).
When I saw the work John has been doing, providing soft skills training on communication, conflict resolution, emotional intelligence, assertion, negotiation, mediation, dealing with difficult behavior, customer service, nonverbal communication, de-escalation, stress management, diversity and inclusion, I knew I had to have him on the podcast. I saw the importance of teaching our next generation of students these important social and emotional learning skills over 25 years ago, working with 12 teenagers, who turned their results in school, sports and their personal lives around, in a matter of weeks. I had to learn more about John Ford’s pathway that took him from practicing law, to working on workplace mediation, training others in these important emotional intelligence training skills.
Let’s meet John Ford, and see what we can learn from his vast experience with conflict resolution to see how he gains trust, with a calming effect in the most difficult and tense situations.
Welcome John, thank you for meeting with me today. Where have we reached you today? (I’m located in Arizona).
Q1: John, can you share what inspired you to transition from practicing law to focusing on workplace mediation and soft-skills training?
Q2: Can you also explain how your work was influenced by all of these researchers and influencers that our listeners would know well. Like Daniel Goleman, the author of Emotional Intelligence, neuroscientist Antonio Damasio, John Gottman’s evidence-based research as well as Paul Ekman’s work on facial expressions.
Q3: What are some other books that you can point us to improve these important skills, books, like Difficult Conversations (Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton and Sheila Hein), or Nonviolent Communication to help us to improve how to better communicate our feelings in our work and personal lives?
Q4: I see you have created tools to help express our feelings without using blame (which we all know takes us down a pathway to more conflict). I don’t remember how long along it was that I learned to take “you made me feel” out of my vocabulary, since no one can make me feel anything. It was a good lesson to keep in mind that only I control my feelings. Could you explain how The Empathy Set[ii] and The Talking Sticks work and the benefits they bring to users?
Q5: In your opinion, what are the most common challenges organizations face when dealing with workplace conflicts?
Q6: What advice would you give to someone who wants to start incorporating empathy and effective communication strategies into their professional or personal life?
Final Thoughts: Can you share a success story that highlights the impact of your products or training programs on a team or organization?
John, I want to thank you very much for meeting with me today. For people to learn more about you, what is the best place?
CONNECT with JOHN FORD
John Ford
www.johnford.com
www.empathyset.com
www.empathysetapp.com
[email protected]
REFERENCES:
[i] https://www.johnford.com/johnford
[ii] https://www.empathyset.com/
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Embracing Change: The Neuroscience Behind Thriving in 2024 Insights from Grant Upbeat Bosnick (Chapter 12)
28 jul 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
In episode 339, we delve into Chapter 12 of Grant's latest book, exploring the cutting-edge neuroscience of change. Building on seven months of in-depth discussions, this episode aims to equip you with the knowledge to thrive in 2024 by understanding how our brain interprets change as either a reward or a threat.
We'll revisit key episodes that have previously tackled the concept of change, including insights from futurist Chris Marshall and renowned neuroscientists. Discover how your brain's response to social and emotional threats can be as powerful as its response to physical dangers, and learn practical strategies to navigate these challenges.
Gain a deeper understanding of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and its evolution into self-determination theory. Explore Bosnick's ACRES model—Autonomy, Competence, Relatedness, Equity, and Sureness—to see how meeting these needs can help you embrace change and achieve your goals.
Join us as we unpack Dr. Huberman's insights on how to harness neuroplasticity to create lasting behavioral changes. Learn how to manage the agitation and strain that come with pushing past your comfort zone, and find out how to build a positive change network to support your journey.
Whether you're looking to enhance your agility, resilience, or overall well-being, this episode offers valuable tools and reflections to help you navigate and embrace change with confidence.
Welcome back to SEASON 12 of The Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity and results—using what I saw as the missing link (since we weren’t taught this when we were growing up in school), the application of practical neuroscience. I’m Andrea Samadi, an author, and an educator with a passion for learning and launched this podcast 6 years ago with the goal of bringing ALL the leading experts together (in one place) to help us to APPLY this research in our daily lives.
On today's episode #339 we continue with our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) tied to the most current neuroscience research, that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights in 2024. So far, it’s taken us 7 months to cover the first 12 chapters thoroughly, and we still have 7 chapters to go. After this week on change, we have chapter 13 on agility, 14 on resilience, 15 on relationships and authenticity, 16 on biases, 17 on trust, 18 on empathy and the final chapter 19 (and one of my target areas to focus on this year), the topic of presence. When we finish each of these chapters, we will put them all together, with a review of each one, in one place.
On today's EPISODE #339 we will cover:
✔ The Neuroscience of Change
✔ How our brains sense rewards versus threats
✔ How social and emotional threats are the same as physical threats
✔ Review of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs
✔ Review of Self Determination Theory
✔ Triggers to watch for during times of change.
✔ How to Change Our Nervous System to change our actions and behaviors, and leave behind a legacy we are proud of.
For Today, EPISODE #339, we are moving on to Chapter 12, covering “The Neuroscience of Change” which came out as a low priority with 0% (Pathway 5) along with Agility and Resilience. I wasn’t surprised to see this topic showing up with a low priority for me this year, mostly because I love change, and am constantly looking for new ways to do things. If I am doing the same things over and over again, I can tend to get bored, so it’s important to find new angles, and challenges, daily to inspire the most creativity.
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[ii], look to see if Change (in Pathway 5) along with agility and resilience, is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year.
We’ve covered the topic of “change” in many different places on this podcast, most recently on EP 296,[iii] with Futurist Chris Marshall on his book “Decoding Change”, EP 244 “Using Neuroscience to Change our Perceptions”[iv], or EP 209 on “Using Neuroscience to Impact Change”[v] where we looked at a quote from the great, late Sir Ken’s famous TED TALK, Do Schools Kill Creativity, where he reminded us that “If you’re not prepared to be wrong, (by not fearing change and making mistakes along the way) you’ll never come up with anything original.” Think about this for a moment. Think of the times in your life where you embraced change. Would you agree with me that embracing change helps us to have more guts and perhaps stretch more in the future? It helps us to build our future confidence levels. There are many different ways to change our brain, like we found out with Dr. Michael Rousell on EP 159[vi] who taught us “How the Power of Surprise Can Secretly Change the Brain.”
So what does Grant Bosnick say about The Neuroscience of Change in Chapter 12 of his book, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership? He opens up the chapter with examples of change, asking how we feel when:
Example 1: We are in nature and come across a “breathtaking view” (how do we feel) I love seeing water (rivers, lakes or waterfalls in nature). How about you? What do you enjoy seeing/feeling in nature?Or, think of this—we are in nature, and we see a large bear in front of us (how do we feel seeing a large bear compared to the first example of the beautiful river or waterfall)? I’ve never seen a bear, but we do see rattlesnakes often on the hiking trails with the same effect as a bear! If a rattlesnake doesn’t kill you with their venom, they could very possibly bankrupt you, due to the high cost associated with treating snake bites.[vii] Think about how seeing a bear or a snake in nature, makes you feel now? The first example is obviously peaceful, and the second quite stressful.Example 2: We are working hard, and go for our dream position at work, and we are thrilled that we actually land the promotion! (How do we feel) This feels incredible!Or, you don’t get the promotion, someone else gets it (how do we feel then)? Deflated is a word that comes to mind.
With both of these examples, the breathtaking view, or when we land the promotion we worked so hard to achieve, Bosnick explains “we feel like we got a reward. It’s a rush. We get a sensation in our brain and a hit of the big neurochemicals” dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, norephinephrine, adrenaline.” (Page 132, Ch 12, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership).
But with the bear in the woods, (or snake on the hiking trails), or being overlooked for the promotion our brain actually sees this “like it’s a threat. We feel tense, stressed, pressure…our body physically feels it.”
Then Bosnick said something that caught my attention that showed me the difference between these two examples. Bosnick says that “Neuroscience has shown us, that the feeling we get from a social or emotional threat (like being passed over for the promotion) is the same as the feeling we get from a physical threat, (like seeing the bear of the snake) and that the negative (threat) response is stronger than the positive (reward) response.” (Page 132, Ch 12, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership). This explains to me why social and emotional threats can have a long-lasting impact on us and deflated just doesn’t cover it. If we let these threats impact us, they do have the ability to zap our future confidence levels.
When we see how our brain interprets “everything and everyone we meet as either a reward or a threat” we can better understand “how our body reacts, (and) our brain and mind think, (leading) to the decisions, behaviors and actions we make.” (Page 132, Ch 12, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership). It’s here that Bosnick reviews the five levels of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, where the bottom two are our physiological needs (food, water, shelter) then safety needs (health, emotional security, financial security) that we need first for survival. The top three are our psychological needs, social belonging (friendships and love), the need for self-esteem (confidence, recognition and respect) that leads us to the top, with self-actualization (where we pursue our goals and seek happiness).
Bosnick talks about how Maslow’s model evolved into “Self-Determination Theory” around the year 2000 where researchers found that there were “three physiological needs: the need for Competence (feeling valued for our knowledge, skills and experience), the need for Relatedness (collaborating, connecting or serving others) and the need for Autonomy (being able to exercise self-regulation…to achieve our goals.” (Page 133, Ch 12, Bosnick).
Bosnick expands on this, calling it ACRES, A=autonomy or the feeling of control or choice), C=competence (feeling valued and respected for our contribution), R=relatedness (a need to belong and be accepted, to also have social connections), E=equity (perceiving actions as fair) and S=sureness (the ability to predict what’s going to happen moment to moment). (Page 133, Ch 12, Bosnick). Bosnick tells us that “if all of our ACRES are being met, it will put us in a toward state and we will fully embrace everything ahead of us; (but) if our ACRES are threatened, it will put us in an “away state” and will then resist or block things ahead of us.
IMAGE CREDIT: Figure 12.1 ACRES Example Grant Bosnick
Bosnick shows us the ACRES example in his life, showing the reward and threats he felt with a work situation.
Understanding our basic human needs, and how they have evolved over the years, helps us to understand why we resist change, whether it’s intentional, or from a subconscious point of view.
Remembering that Our brain is tied into “everything that we do, and everything that we are.” (Dr. Daniel Amen)
I can look at Bosnick’s ACRES example, and clearly think of a work experience I did not enjoy, as it went against the ACRES Model of Needs. With brain science in mind, I can gain more understanding of why I didn’t enjoy this experience, helping me to seek out a NEW work experience, where the ACRES were all met.
When I think of that work experience I did not enjoy, ALL five of the ACRES examples were not met, so I felt the negative threat response in my brain, activated daily, didn’t notice any positive reward responses, and even though I felt like I was consciously making an effort, my brain kicked into the “fight of flight response” just like my body was preparing for a threat (like the bear in the woods, or snake on the hiking trail). At the end of each day, I felt threatened and not rewarded.
Can you think of when you have felt the ACRES Model working for you (where you feel rewarded) or against you (where you feel threat) while going through change?
Bosnick next explains how open-minded or close-minded we are to change, in his figure 12.2 with an image that was created by Michael Mahoney[viii] the author of The Human Change Process book, who addresses why change is so difficult for people, and how to lean into change, and maximize your chances for success.
“The open-minded/closed minded dimension relates to the degree of mental openness to the environment and our level of curiosity. Open- minded represents the level of reward that we perceive and close-minded represents the level of threat that we perceive. With a passive mindset, we will either subtly support or oppose the change; with an active mindset, we will either overtly support or overtly reject the change.” (Page 137, Ch 12, Bosnick).
We did dive into the emotion of curiosity on our interview with the co-author of the famous book The Archeology of Mind, Lucy Biven on EP 270[ix] where we looked at Jaak Panksepp’s research, and again with Gabrielle Usatynski on EP #282[x] “How to Use Jaak Panksepp’s 7 Core Emotions to Transform Your Family, Career and Life.” With this look at effective neuroscience, it makes sense to set out with a “seeking” or curious mindset, while approaching change, to be as open as we all can to what we might learn in the process, while being mindful of what makes you close-minded. Bosnick points out that it’s normal to go back and forth between these two states, but just to be mindful of what shuts you down, or puts you in the threat response. We want to be in the “Bring Change On” quadrant from figure 12.2 but what do we do if something is “triggering” us as a threat response?
Bosnick lists a few triggers we can be mindful of watching during times of change. Some included:
History of this particular type of change: Think about how have you been in the past with the change you are experiencing now? Remember that past behavior can help you to predict future behavior.Beware of the fear of loss that Bosnick says creates insecurity and unsureness.Beware of the fear of the unknown.Lacking a plan.Fear of giving up our freedom.
If you are going through a change right now, look at the change response quadrant figure 12.2 and see where you would place yourself. Are you clearly in the Bring it On Quadrant, or are you going back and forth between being open-minded (and ready for change) or close-minded (and unsure of yourself).
Look at the list of triggers and see if any of these are causing you to experience a threat response in your brain.
What I love about Bosnick’s book, is how many reflection activities he has, in addition to the Companion Workbook that goes along with this text. Bosnick suggests to “build a positive change network” so you don’t need to face change on your own. He suggests adding in new social connections to increase the positive rewards in your life, and minimize the threat responses you might face.
What Else Does Neuroscience Say About Change?
Can we really change our nervous system—specifically our actions and behaviors that will lead us to NEW conditions, circumstances and environments in our life?Can we with focus, and with the use of our will, become more open-minded to change in our life?
After learning about how our brain either feels threatened or rewarded during times of change, I wondered what Dr. Andrew Huberman would suggest and I found an episode he did back in 2021 on “How Your Brain Works and Changes”[xi] that gave me some insight into how I can change my actions and behaviors to be more open-minded, getting me to that “Bring it on” Quadrant, so that I’ll see the change I’m experiencing as a reward, instead of a threat.
I think this is brilliant! Using our understanding of practical Neuroscience to actually change our brain, and lean into change, with an open-minded, active mindset, keeping our brain primed for rewards, and aware of how to mitigate threats.
Dr. Huberman suggests that in order to change our actions and behavior towards something, we must first of all understand how this part of our brain works in our nervous system. He dives into an hour long explanation you can watch, but I will give you the short-cut version.
He explains that our nervous system consists of these five things:
We experience sensation (we have neurons that see color, feel sensations, taste, smell). We can’t change our sensory receptors.We experience perception (our ability to take what we are sensing or paying attention to) and focus on it. He says we can put a spotlight on something we want to pay attention to, for example.Then we have our feelings/emotions (like happiness, sadness, boredom, frustration) and he reviews how neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers argue (like crazy) about this topic, and how emotions/feelings work. Dr. Huberman says that it all goes back to understanding that there are certain neuromodulators that have a profound impact on our emotional state. Dopamine (involved with motivation and reward, and important with things outside of ourselves, things we want to pursue) and serotonin tends to help us to feel good with what we have. Dr. Huberman reminds us that “feelings and emotions are contextual” and that while showing joy/sadness can be appropriate in some cultures, it can also be inappropriate in others. While he says, there are no “happiness” or “sadness” circuits in our brain, but it is fair to say that “certain chemicals, and certain brain circuits tend to be active when we are in a happy/focused state, certain brain circuits tend to be active when we are also in a non-focused, or lazy state” (Dr. Huberman) It makes sense to me here to do our best to lean into the happy focused state as often as we can, knowing we could use the happiness brain chemicals in our pursuit of new things.Then our thoughts: that are like our perceptions, but they draw on “not just what’s happening in the present, but also things we remember from the past, and things we anticipate in the future…and our thoughts can be controlled in a deliberate way” (Dr. Huberman). We have spent a considerable amount of time on this podcast talking about how important our thoughts are, with ways to lean into positive thinking, and put a hard STOP on the negative thoughts that come our way.Then finally our actions and behaviors that Dr. Huberman considers to be the most important part to our nervous system. Our actions and behaviors he says are the only things that will create any “fossil record” of our existence. Or I say, they will be what will determine our legacy, or the impact we want to have on the outside world. When we die, our body disintegrates. The sensations, perceptions, feelings and emotions, or thoughts we had in our lifetime “none of these are carried forward” except the ones that we convert into actions (like writing, or actually doing something with the things we THINK about. Our legacy, or “fossil record” is through the ACTION we take in our life.
IMAGE CREDIT: Andrea recreated this image from Dr. Andrew Huberman's Solo EP Jan 3, 2001 "How Your Brain Works"
At this point, I can draw back on MANY episodes where we have focused on taking action (rather than just thinking of what we want to do) but we are focused on the Neuroscience of Change right now. How can we stay open-minded to bring on change in 2024 and keep moving forward?
Dr. Huberman has us reflect back on what builds our Nervous System (our sensations, our perceptions, feelings and emotions, our thoughts) and they ALL lead to this one last part, our ability to TAKE ACTION.
He says that we do “have the ability to change our nervous system” and this is when we “deliberately put our focus on something that we want to do.” This is where the work comes in here. When we want to “learn something new, CHANGE something (like a behavior) and he gives the example of learning to resist speaking, or force yourself to be quiet where we want to actively suppress our behavior and CHANGE our BEHAVIOR or ACTIONS.
When are suppressing a circuit in our brain, (using our forebrain that is fully developed by age 22) to do something different (that’s challenging to us) norepinephrine (adrenaline) is released and it will create a feeling of challenge or agitation as you engage these neurocircuits to push yourself past this threshold of where you normally don’t go. In the situation where we are learning to not speak, and withhold something we really want to say, we are putting self-regulation into action. “You will feel limbic friction that comes from this top-down processing.” (Dr. Huberman).
Think about any time you have tried to take a new action or behavior. You’ll feel annoyed (which is really the adrenaline that’s released from your brain).
“Agitation and strain is the entry point to neuroplasticity” Dr. Huberman
If we can push past this agitation and strain, we will be changing our brain, our actual nervous system, as we create a NEW change of behavior in our life.
This brings me to a quote by Peter Senge where he says that “people don’t resist change. They resist being changed.” That feeling of agitation will come up during change, and when the change is your choice…or something that you really want to do, you will push past the threshold to overcome the change.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #339 on “The Neuroscience of Change” we looked at two examples of what happens to our brain when we see something our brain wasn’t expecting, like the breathtaking view, or when we land the promotion we worked so hard to achieve, Bosnick explains “we feel like we got a reward. It’s a rush. We get a sensation in our brain and a hit of the big neurochemicals” dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, norephinephrine, adrenaline.” (Page 132, Ch 12, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership).
But when we see a bear in the woods, (or snake on the hiking trails), or we are overlooked for a promotion at work, our brain actually sees this “like it’s a threat. We feel tense, stressed, pressure…our body physically feels it.”
We learned that “Neuroscience has shown us, that the feeling we get from a social or emotional threat (like being passed over for the promotion) is the same as the feeling we get from a physical threat (like seeing a bear or a snake).
When we see how our brain interprets “everything and everyone we meet as either a reward or a threat” we can better understand “how our body reacts, (and) our brain and mind think, (leading) to the decisions, behaviors and actions we make.” (Page 132, Ch 12, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership).
Next we reviewed Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs that led to “Self-Determination Theory” around the year 2000 where researchers found that there were “three physiological needs: the need for Competence (feeling valued for our knowledge, skills and experience), the need for Relatedness (collaborating, connecting or serving others) and the need for Autonomy (being able to exercise self-regulation…to achieve our goals.” (Page 133, Ch 12, Bosnick).
We learned that when our ACRES are being met, (our autonomy, competence, relatedness, equity, and sureness) it will put us in a toward state and we will fully embrace everything ahead of us; (but) if our ACRES are threatened, it will put us in an “away state” and will then resist or block things ahead of us.
Looking at Bosnick’s ACRES example, we thought about work experience we did not enjoy, to see where it went against the ACRES Model of Needs. With brain science in mind, we can gain more understanding of why we either enjoyed, or didn’t enjoy this experience. It all led back to how our brain either interprets the experience as a reward, or a threat.
We looked at triggers to be aware of to mitigate threat, during times of change.
Finally, we looked at how to change our nervous system, to change our actions and behaviors, so we can leave behind a legacy (or fossil record as Dr. Huberman calls it) that we are proud of.
We learned that “Agitation and strain is the entry point to neuroplasticity” Dr. Huberman
This is when lasting CHANGE is happening at the brain level, and impacting our entire nervous system. So when I’m working on something, (like trying to learn something new…like understanding the neuroscience of change for this episode) and that limbic friction feeling comes up, (and I’m annoyed or agitated) I now have a deeper understanding of what’s happening at the brain level. I will now push forward, stay positive and lean into the change that I know is happening in my brain, as I embrace the change and say “Bring it on!”
The Neuroscience of Change is an exciting topic, and it’s only going to be strengthened with the next two topics, Agility and Resilience.
To close, I’ll revisit the quote from the great Sir Ken[xii], who’s vision for creativity in our schools and workplaces of the future, is something that left a lasting impression on me. If we are afraid of change, of failing and doing something wrong, we will never come up with anything original.
I hope this episode has inspired you, like it has me, to lean into change, with brain science in mind, and keep working on the legacy or fossil record that you want to leave on the world.
I’ll see you next time.
REVIEW OF OUR MAP (This is chapter 12/19)
In this 18-week Series that we began in the beginning of February, (after I was inspired to cover Grant’s book after our interview the end of January) we are covering:
✔ Powerful tactics from this Grant Bosnick’s award-winning book that illustrates how change and achievement are truly achievable both from internal ('inside out') and external ('outside in') perspectives.
✔Listeners will grasp the immense power of self-leadership and its transformative effect on personal growth and success by applying the neuroscience Grant has uncovered in each chapter.
✔Explore practical strategies for habit formation and the impact of a self-assessment system.
✔Gain insights from Grant's expert advice on maintaining a balance between strengths and weaknesses while chasing after your goals.
✔Embark on an intellectual journey that has the power to elevate personal achievement and self-awareness to uncharted levels while we map out our journey over this 18-week course.
REFERENCES:
[i]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[iii] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #296 with Chris Marshall on “Decoding Change” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/futurist-and-behavioral-scientist-chris-marshall-on-decoding-change/
[iv]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #244 https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-fact-friday-using-neuroscience-to-change-our-perception/
[v]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #209 “Using Neuroscience to Impact Change” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/using-neuroscience-to-impact-change/
[vi] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #159 “Using the Power of Surprise to Change Your Beliefs” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/dr-michael-rousell-on-the-power-of-surprise-how-your-brain-secretly-changes-your-beliefs/
[vii] Rattlesnake Bites in Pima County Pose Costly Consequences Bri Pacelli April 2, 2024 https://www.kgun9.com/news/community-inspired-journalism/midtown-news/rattlesnake-bites-in-pima-county-pose-costly-consequences
[viii] Human Change Processes by Michael Mahoney https://www.amazon.com/Human-Change-Processes-Foundations-Psychotherapy/dp/0465031188
[ix] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #270 “A short-Cut to Understanding Affective Neuroscience” with Lucy Biven https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/lucy-biven/
[x] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #282 “How to Use Jaak Panksepp’s 7 Core Emotions to Transform Your Family, Career and Life” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/gabrielle-usatynski-on-how-to-use-jaak-panksepp-s-7-core-emotions-to-transform-your-relationships-family-career-and-life/
[xi] How Your Brain Works and Changes by Dr. Andrew Huberman 2021 https://open.spotify.com/episode/6wuY0R571xaBTbNOX4yuqY
[xii] Do Schools Kill Creativity? Sir Ken Robinson TED Talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
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Time: Insights from Grant 'Upbeat' Bosnick: The Neuroscience Behind Effective Time Management Chapter 11
14 jul 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 12 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, where we connect science-based evidence with practical applications for improved well-being, achievement, and productivity. I'm Andrea Samadi, your host, and today we're diving into episode number 337, continuing our 18-week self-leadership series based on Grant Bosnick's tailored approaches to self-leadership.
In this episode, we explore chapter 11 of Grant's book, focusing on the neuroscience of time management. Discover how understanding your chronotypes and managing your energy can lead to better productivity and creativity. We'll share insights from Kent Healy's perspective on time management and highlight practical strategies from renowned experts like Stephen Covey and Brendon Burchard.
Learn how to prioritize tasks, avoid common time traps, and use your peak energy periods for deep work. Whether you're an early bird or a night owl, this episode provides valuable tips to make the most out of your 84,600 seconds each day.
Join us as we uncover the science behind effective time management and how it can transform your personal and professional life. Don't miss out on these powerful insights to help you reach greater heights in 2024.
Welcome back to SEASON 12 of The Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity and results—using what I saw as the missing link (since we weren’t taught this when we were growing up in school), the application of practical neuroscience. I’m Andrea Samadi, an author, and an educator with a passion for learning and launched this podcast 6 years ago with the goal of bringing ALL the leading experts together (in one place) to help us to APPLY this research in our daily lives.
On today's episode #337 we continue with our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights in 2024.
On today's EPISODE #337 we will cover:
✔ We'll share insights from Kent Healy's perspective on time management and highlight practical strategies from renowned experts like Stephen Covey and Brendon Burchard.✔ Discover how understanding your chronotype and managing your energy can lead to better productivity and creativity. ✔ Learn how to prioritize tasks, avoid common time traps, and use your peak energy periods for deep work.✔ How will YOU manage your time, with brain science in mind?
For Today, EPISODE #337, we are moving on to Chapter 11, covering “The Neuroscience of Time Management” which came out as a low, or RED priority for me at 8%, and again, not because this topic isn’t important for me, but I’ve already put strategies for time management into place, so this is not an area I need to focus on this year. It’s interesting to see how each of these lessons play out in our daily life, putting theory into practice. This morning I had to chance to see why this topic showed up as low importance for me to work on this year. I had slotted on my calendar to write this episode, (a Saturday), I started my day at 4am (with early meditation, then some time in the sauna) before hitting the hiking trails for what I call a long 7-mile hike, that I do only if I am fully rested, to guarantee a good day of focused writing. While driving back from this this hike, I had a call from a good friend I had not seen in quite a few years, who wanted to see if we could meet for coffee. I know the time required to write, record and edit this episode, so I told her this was my priority for the weekend, and that I could let her know if I finish earlier. Otherwise, we could plan to meet another time, even though I know it would be great to see this friend. This weekend was not the right time.
So before we even start looking into the Neuroscience Behind Time Management that this topic is important to me. Vitally important. Not just for managing my own time, but also valuing the time of others as well.
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[ii], look to see if Time Management is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year.
We covered this topic on the podcast in our early days, with someone I came across about 15 years ago, before publishing my first book, on success strategies for teenagers. I wanted to find other success books were out there, and I came across Kent Healy’s Success Principles for Teens[iii] that he co-authored with Jack Canfield.
At that time, I was working with success principals (character and leadership) with students in the classroom and reached out to Kent for some thoughts on something to help inspire our next generation to think bigger, (like I knew he did) and reach for greater heights. Kent created a video for me that we used with students and I featured this video on EP 33[iv] of our podcast that was called “Time Management, the Greatest Asset We Have.” Kent gives a perspective to the amount of time we have, in a way that 15 years later, I’ve still not forgotten his words in this video recording. You can watch Kent’s explanation of “time management”[v] here, with the visuals that he provided, reminding us that “we all have the same amount of time” and he even breaks it down and tells us how many seconds we have every day (84,600 seconds to be exact). While ALL the experts agree that we can’t create more time, or change this number, some will say we can use our time to generate more of something else (like energy) but Kent’s message was about using this time (these 84,600 seconds we have each day wisely) and focus on what we can control, and that’s our personal growth.
He gives an example of adding just 15 extra minutes a day towards learning something new, and that adds up to 3.8 full days a year, and asks us to think of what value we put on 15 minutes of time.
After thinking about Kent Healy’s message on time, my mind went back to when I heard over and over again, the words from Earl Nightingale, through Bob Proctor, who often would quote Earl’s thoughts on time management. Proctor would quote Earl and say “Time cannot be managed! Nobody masters time management. I merely manage activity.”[vi] Which led me to think about the blocks of time (my activity) that I have on my calendar, and the early morning blocks are non-negotiable. Also, my work hours (whether it’s working on the podcast on the weekend), or my full time work (weekdays) my calendar is blocked off, and the time here in non-negotiable.
Kent Healy’s message about paying attention to what I do with even 15 minutes of time, mixed with Earl Nightingale’s message of managing activities (or blocking out what’s important for us to accomplish each day) is engrained so deeply into my daily habits that I have a deep respect for my time, and other people’s.
Think About These Questions:
Do you value your time?
Do you value other people’s time?
Do you think 15 minutes of time really matters?
Let’s see what Grant Bosnick thinks about Time Management in Chapter 11 of his book. He opens up the chapter by asking us to define what it means to “manage time” and says “it’s more about managing our energy through time.” (Ch 11, Grant Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership).
HOW GRANT BOSNICK MANAGES HIS TIME:
Bosnick does mention Stephen Covey’s The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People that we looked at on EP #207 with our interview with Greg Link, who took The 7 Habits Book to incredible heights, saying that Covey’s work influenced his approach to thinking about time. Bosnick created something he calls his 7 Roles Planning Sheet where breaks down his task list into several different roles we might have in our life (like competent salesperson, collaborative team member, parent, etc). I like how his planner breaks down the different roles we all have, so we can separate our work roles and personal life roles, with the next steps (or goals) to move each of these roles forward.
IMAGE CREDIT: Grant Bosnick Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership Chapter 11
I’ve seen the author of the book, High Performance Habits, Brendon Burchard[vii], create something that also helps break down our long task lists, using different projects with his 1- Page Productivity Planner that I’ve put a link to in the show notes.
I’ve personally used this planner for years to keep track of the steps in certain projects, keeping them all separate. Like writing a new book, or building a new website, with the steps needed in order to move each project forward.
IMAGE CREDIT: Brendon Burchard’s 1 Page Productivity Planner[viii]
The part I liked the most on this planner, was the PEOPLE section, where you keep track of important people you reached out to (helping you move each project forward) to those who you were waiting to hear back from. EVERY important person I have ever met with (over the years) was written on this list, until I crossed them off and had finished what I needed to accomplish with them.
Bosnick also covered a concept that Stephen Covey is known for creating where we pinpoint on a graph what is urgent and important to cover immediately. We covered this graph, and Stephen Covey’s 7 Habits on EP 68[ix] “The Neuroscience of Personal Change.” The urgent and important quadrant, or quadrant 1, is for tasks and responsibilities that are critical and require immediate attention. These activities are often time-sensitive and necessary for your existence, such as pressing problems, deadline-driven projects, or last-minute preparations. This concept came from Covey’s Habit #3 Put First Things First: Plan Weekly and Act Daily.
Stephen Covey built his whole career around the 4-quadrant chart called the Urgent and Important Matrix[x] where our attention goes to Quadrant 1 with Urgent and Important Tasks completed first and Quadrant 4, Distractions last. I’ve put the chart in the show notes for anyone who wants to see all of the quadrants.
Quadrant 1 - Crises - URGENT and IMPORTANT
Quadrant 2 - Goals and Planning - NON-URGENT and IMPORTANT
Quadrant 3 - Interruptions - URGENT and NOT IMPORTANT
Quadrant 4 - Distractions - NOT URGENT and NOT IMPORTANT
Whatever method you use to manage your long task list, Bosnick mentions it helps to “see all of the tasks and micro-tasks that need to be done” in one place, and I’d have to agree that it helps to have something printed off where you can see everything that’s important for you to accomplish, in one view.
Bosnick does cover our Circadian Rhythms of Life, and “when we are at our peak energy and peak mental alertness: early morning, late morning, after lunch, evening, nighttime.” (Ch 11, Bosnick) so that we schedule our tasks that require the most cognitive function, in the times we are the most alert, and administrative tasks where less cognitive function in required, around this. This is something I know we are all aware of, but here’s the kicker. What if you had a call from someone you wanted to see, to go meet them for coffee, during the time of day that you know you were the most productive.
Would you meet them, or get your work done first, and then find the time to meet with them? I think the answer to this question is obvious, that high performers, who value their most productive time blocks of their day, would always complete their work first.
I love the section in Bosnick’s book about “Time Traps and How to Overcome Them” as we all could use a refresher on ways to avoid those things that “drain our energy and time.” (Bosnick, Ch 11)
Bosnick’s Top Energy Drainers:
ProcrastinationSaying Yes to EverythingThe Perfectionist
There are more, but these ones just made me smile. They’ve come up in ALL of the time management courses I’ve done over the years. It’s funny because over the years, I’ve learned to be a bit more flexible with life in general, but with time management, I refuse the bend the rules.
For procrastination: I say “do it now, or it will never be completed.”
For Saying Yes to everything: I say “no to everything FIRST with the contingency that I can get back to the person if something changes.
For the Perfectionist: I understand this one. When I’m interviewing someone, I want what I put out to the world to be perfect, as it usually represents that person’s life’s work. I will put the time needed to be sure I’m proud of the work I’m doing. Brendon Burchard calls this “Prolific Quality Output”[xi] and this is a High-Performance Habit that helps you to focus on the outputs that matter.
Ask yourself:
What are the outputs that matter the most for your personal or professional career?
For me and this podcast, it’s producing high quality, well-researched episodes, that make a difference for others who listen. In my professional life, everything I say during a presentation matters. I don’t want anything less than perfection, so I’d put the time in to make sure I’m always delivering Prolific Quality Output.
Bosnick suggests “setting your highest priority and focus around this” (Ch 11) and I don’t think there is anything wrong with reaching for the highest standard you can, without burning yourself out.
What does Neuroscience Say About Time Management?
I tuned into Dr. Andrew Huberman’s Episode on “Tools for Better Productivity and Time Management”[xii] and this episode was in agreement with Grant Bosnick’s idea of being aware of our chronotypes. Dr. Huberman mentioned that “For those people who go to bed around 9:30pm-11:30pm and wake in the window of 6am-8am that there tends to be an increase in catecholamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, 0-8 hours after waking, which generally speaking leads to increases in alertness, attention and focus that are great for analytical work, great for implementation of strategies that you already understand.”
Dr. Huberman and his guest, Dr. Adam Grant discussed how many people do not take advantage of these brain chemicals that they also said “provides extra energy and leads to more divergent thinking” as many people will use this important block of time to knock out their emails, or have non-productive conversations with their coworkers-and miss this opportunity.
The Neuroscience of Time Management shows me that understanding my chronotype is a crucial component to whether I will be making use of my time and brain chemistry at the specific time of day when I will have access to extra energy and more divergent thinking that involves creativity that generates new and original solutions to problems.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #337 on “The Neuroscience of Time Management”
DID YOU KNOW:
That our chronotype “the natural inclination of your body to sleep at a certain time or what people understand as being an early bird versus a night owl”[xiii] should be factored into our Time Management Strategy?
“For those people who go to bed around 9:30pm-11:30pm and wake in the window of 6am-8am that there tends to be an increase in (dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, 0-8 hours after waking, which leads to increases in alertness, attention and focus that are great for analytical work, great for implementation of strategies that you already understand.” Dr. Andrew Huberman with Guest Dr. Adam Grant
As we are thinking about the best strategies to manage our activities, projects, or even the roles we have in our personal and professional lives, in order to have access to this extra energy, and divergent, creative thinking, we will want to plan our “deep” work 0-8 hours after waking.
This made me think of Grant Bosnick’s Top Energy Drainers:
ProcrastinationSaying Yes to EverythingThe Perfectionist
With this extra energy, and creative thinking, I would put it all into creative prolific quality work (the perfectionist in me) and use the extra energy to combat against procrastination, while protecting my time by saying no to everything, (at first). I know I can always come back to projects that I would like to do, that have meaning to me, but by truly managing my energy and activities, I am protecting this commodity that we all have: time.
What about you? Will you change anything you are doing now, with this understanding of WHEN you might be the most alert, creative and have the most energy in your day?
This did make me think that the 84,600 seconds that Kent Healy reminded me that we all have each day, and how 15 minutes a day (that adds up to 3.8 days/year) can be used even more wisely with this understanding of The Neuroscience of Time Management.
IMAGE CREDIT: KENT HEALY on Time Management
I’ll close out this episode with a quote from Benjamin Franklin where he reminds us that “lost time is never found again.”
I hope this episode has helped you to see the questions we asked at the start of this episode with a new light:
Do you value your time?
Do you value other people’s time?
Do you think 15 minutes of time really matters?
I will definitely continue to be mindful of other people’s time, and keep working on using my blocks of time in the early morning hours, when I’m most productive and creative.
With that thought, we will close out this episode, and I’ll see you next time for Chapter 12 of Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership on The Neuroscience of Change.
REVIEW
In this 18-week Series that we began in the beginning of February, (after I was inspired to cover Grant’s book after our interview the end of January) we are covering:
✔ Powerful tactics from this Grant Bosnick’s award-winning book that illustrates how change and achievement are truly achievable both from internal ('inside out') and external ('outside in') perspectives.
✔Listeners will grasp the immense power of self-leadership and its transformative effect on personal growth and success by applying the neuroscience Grant has uncovered in each chapter.
✔Explore practical strategies for habit formation and the impact of a self-assessment system.
✔Gain insights from Grant's expert advice on maintaining a balance between strengths and weaknesses while chasing after your goals.
✔Embark on an intellectual journey that has the power to elevate personal achievement and self-awareness to uncharted levels while we map out our journey over this 18-week course.
RESOURCES:
Are you a morning lark, or a night owl? https://www.sleepwatchapp.com/blog/on-the-nature-of-larks-owls-in-their-modern-habitat/
REFERENCES:
[i]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[iii] Success Principles for Teens by Jack Canfield and Kent Healy April 15, 2008 https://www.amazon.com/Success-Principles-Teens-Where-Want/dp/0757307272
[iv]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #33 with Kent Healy on “Managing Our Time, Our Greatest Asset” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/author-kent-healy-on-managing-time-our-greatest-asset/
[v] Author Kent Healy on “Time Management: Our Greatest Asset” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ibHzu751I
[vi] How to Master Time Management by Bob Proctor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yey59NOFNFY
[vii] https://brendon.com/
[viii] http://www.experimentswithsuccess.com/2014/09/darren-hardy-interviews-brendon-burchard/1-page-productivity-planner/
[ix]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #68 The Neuroscience of Personal Change https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/the-neuroscience-of-personal-change/
[x] The Urgent and Important Matrix https://www.thecoachingtoolscompany.com/coaching-tools-101-what-is-the-urgent-important-matrix/
[xi] https://wakeupitsdayone.com/2018/07/16/increase-productivity-habit-4-of-high-performers/
[xii]“Tools for Better Productivity and Time Management” Dr. Andrew Huberman with Dr. Adam Grant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8B0KWmv_-Q
[xiii] Chronotypes Definition https://www.sleepfoundation.org/how-sleep-works/chronotypes#:~:text=Chronotype%20is%20the%20natural%20inclination,bird%20versus%20a%20night%20owl.
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Remembering Dr. Wallace J Nichols: Blue Mind: Exploring the Water-Brain Connection
8 jul 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
In this episode of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, host Andrea Samadi revisits a profound interview with Dr. Wallace J. Nichols, the author of the best-selling book "Blue Mind." Dr. Nichols delves into the fascinating connection between our brains and water, inspired by his extensive research and personal experiences.
Andrea reflects on Dr. Nichols' groundbreaking work, which explores how being near, in, on, or underwater can enhance our happiness, health, and overall well-being. This episode covers the origins of the Blue Mind theory, its scientific backing, and practical ways to apply it in daily life to combat stress, anxiety, and burnout.
As we honor Dr. Nichols' legacy, Andrea encourages listeners to practice Blue Mind, understand their personal connection to water, and extend this healing practice to others. Tune in to discover how the magical and mysterious connection to water can transform our lives.
On today's episode #338 we will revisit a previous interview #297[i] from last summer to remember the author of the best-selling book, Blue Mind, Dr. Wallace J. Nichols, who made such an impact on the world with his Blue Mind Movement, and is no longer with us today. While this is a difficult episode to write, I know it’s an important one as I could use the tips I know we are going to cover myself at the moment. I’m also sure there are others in the world who could benefit from revisiting the surprising science that shows how being near, in, on, or under water can make you happier, healthier more connected and better at what you do. I could have left this episode until a later date, even closed to World Blue Mind Day coming up July 23rd (later this month) as I stared at a blank document and the words just wouldn’t come out. Then when I finally did start writing, last month, the document was erased, so it just must not have been the right words. Or maybe this episode was meant to be written near the ocean as I’m sitting next to the Gulf of Mexico, while writing this. Or maybe even written from the point of view, of being under the water, looking around, and up, to “see” what can be felt deeply with this mysterious brain/mind connection.
Before sitting down to write this episode, I noticed sea turtles swimming around in the ocean, up close to us, and everyone mentioned how rare this was. I just kept thinking of Dr. Nichols telling me (in our interview this time last year) that he studied sea turtles for 30 years, and remembered him mentioning that he was hoping someone else more qualified (like Dr. Oliver Sachs) would write the book he wanted to write, connecting the deep mysterious ocean with the intricacies of our brain.
While revisiting our interview, I wondered:
What else could we learn from Dr. Nichols that we might have missed the first time? You know when you read a good book twice you always see something new. This is because you’ve changed since the first time, and you bring new experiences with you. I wonder what doors this second look would open for all of us?How can I improve my own Blue Mind Practice? Dr. Nichols mentioned that even if we are doing ok, practicing Blue Mind could still help us, but for those people who are in Red Mind (feeling anxious) this practice could save your life. It’s another tool to add to our tool kit to prevent us from reaching Grey Mind (or Burn out).How can revisiting this episode help others close to me (starting with my own family) helping them to practice Blue Mind in our daily lives? Also not being afraid of the hardest science in the room (our emotions) and keep talking openly about our feelings, and to not be afraid to reach out to others if we feel Red Mind or anxious thoughts.How can we highlight Dr. Nichols’ work so that we ALL can do what he suggests we do, by finding “our water, pay attention to how it feels and then take someone else with you” to experience the deep mysteries felt with this Blue Mind that’s backed by science.
Knowing our first interview was an important one, I watched the YouTube[ii] version for the third time this week, writing more notes on top of previous notes, to see if I could dig deeper into the meaning of the words of wisdom covered in our first interview.
Let’s go back and revisit this important interview with marine biologist and author, Dr. Wallace J Nichols, to see if we can take our own practice of Blue Mind, to the next level.
We opened up our interview when I recalled standing next to the bluest water I have ever seen in Turks and Caicos, last summer, 2023, just prior to our interview. I remember our bags were packed, and we were just leaving our hotel to return home, when I was introduced to Dr. Nichols, (via email) after experiencing some of the most “magical” memories that our family has ever felt, near the water. Dr. Nichols recalls those turquoise waters, saying he “knew them well” and we would return home as a family, not knowing we would ALL need Dr. Nichols’ Blue Mind Theory later this summer ourselves. It’s all easy to see these things looking backwards, but the dots had not connected forward yet, like Steve Jobs’ famous Stanford Commencement Speech.[iii]
I knew this was an important interview. For myself, as well as for others.
INTRO: We open up this interview with my introduction about Dr. Nichols, and how the foreword to his book, Blue Mind, was written by Celine Cousteau, one of the daughters of the great Jacques Cousteau who wrestles with explaining the “awe and wonder” of our oceans and waterways. She says “should we leave it, or dive in and explain it?” Jacques Cousteau would dive in, so she decides to do the same and says “it’s about reconnecting our sense of self and soul with our waterways and oceans. It’s about finding creativity, clarity, and confidence in our deep Blue Minds.” (Celine Cousteau) Next, I ask Dr. Nichols to share some of the meaning behind Celine Cousteau’s words in the Foreword, and he shared that she connected her background in psychology to her words.
Then I ask Dr. Nichols about how he made the brain/water connection and I loved his answer. He was hoping that someone else would publish Blue Mind. He searched all over the place for this book, Your Brain on Water, and pitched this book idea to Dr. Oliver Sachs, and he was told over and over again, that this is your book to write.
I understood why he kept looking for this book, from my point of view. I’m a former teacher, from Toronto, trying to make sense of how our brain impacts our future results, specifically as it relates to learning. I remember writing the idea of this podcast down, connecting Neuroscience to Social and Emotional Learning and almost hid this idea from others in the beginning. I’m not a neuroscientist, or anything –ist. But there was a time when I was told, just like Dr. Nichols, “you need to make the neuroscience/education connection” (and was handed a ton of books to read). I remember thinking “this is too hard for me” but I did it anyway. I was determined to learn more about our brain and learning, and paid people smarter than me to explain the concepts I couldn’t grasp. Slowly but surely, I began to understand how our brain learns something new.
Which is why I was so impressed when Dr. Nichols “wrote the book” anyway, connecting the nervous system (that we are still making deeper discoveries with) to largely unexplored bodies of water, like the ocean. He connected top neuroscientists, to those who understood the mysteries within the depths of the ocean. He says himself that it took him some time, explaining to me that he’s a marine biologist, who studied sea turtles for 30 years, and I understood what he was saying. He noted “I’m not a neuropsychologist, I just came in the side door.” He did the work needed to “put this theory together, because he knew he had to do this. What he created continues to gain momentum over the years. He started a movement, The Blue Mind Movement, with this book that he knew he had to write, and proved that we ALL can make the brain/water connection to become happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what we do.
Q1: I was amazed at the research held in the pages of this book. I had to ask how he did it, and the answer just blew me away. Dr. Nichols talked about how they held Blue Mind Summits where they would connect the leading experts in neuroscience, (like neuroscientist Howard Fields) to those who used these principles in their lives around water, like pioneering top wave surfer, (Jeff Clark) or those who used this magical connection to water to overcome addiction. They were asked one question that they each would answer from their specific point of view. Like making the connection with dopamine (in our brain) and surfing, something that had never been done before.
This is where true learning begins, almost like connecting peanut butter to chocolate to create the Reece’s Peanut Butter Cup. Even though Dr. Nichols mentioned that no one would fund this idea, he just knew it had to be done, and he did it.
He mentions Dr. Dan Siegel[iv] often in Blue Mind, and looked for anyone we knew the science to help make this brain on water connection.
Sometimes I forget what questions I ask on interviews. The questions just come out of me and if you know me, I’m like this in real life. I remember someone saying that meeting me for the first time was like a job interview. I’m so curious, and I will just ask you so many questions, you’d leave our conversation wondering “why so many questions?!” I forgot that I mentioned my fascination with surfing at the north shore of Hawaii to Dr. Nichols until I re-watched our interview. Hollywood really does Blue Mind well, with all the movies, bringing water to life, and television has mastered this topic. Until this weekend, I had no idea that the American animated tv series Spongebob was created by a marine scientist educator an animator, and was the highest rated Nickelodeon Series, and the most profitable, generating over $13B in merchandising revenue.[v] So why did Hollywood[vi] film and television producers see something that didn’t reach those who protect our oceans? This is what motivated Dr. Nichols to keep talking to those who could help him to make this brain/water connection. Since writing Blue Mind, Dr. Nichols’ mentioned there were hundreds more organizations dedicated to saving our oceans, but more work needs to be done here. I do feel a responsibility to continue to spread Dr. Nichols’ work, and keep his Blue Mind Theory in the forefront of our minds.
And by question 2, I was already asking Dr. Nichols “why am I mesmerized by the ocean?” and sharing how I felt a connection to the Billabong Pipe Masters section of the North shore in Hawaii. He looked at me with deep understanding, and it was here that I knew he understood what I was feeling, as I was starting to understand his Blue Mind Theory. I just couldn’t put it into words. There is something magical about being around water, and I’ve felt it for years.
Q2: I asked Dr. Wallace “Why are many people fascinated with the ocean and the “secrets it holds?” and he reassured me this was common, and he hears this all the time. I thought that if I felt this way, how many others listening also feel this fascination? When he said that “many people feel this way” and that “we are not alone” I felt my emotions coming through. Finally, someone telling me what I feel around water is common. I felt understood at a whole new level. He said “maybe everyone feels this connection” and it might not always be the ocean. It can be a puddle, or even frozen water! Now Dr. Nichols is catching my attention, and I can’t look away. As he listed all the sources of Blue Mind, my awareness is expanding. I had no idea there were so many ways to connect to water, and his words and calm voice were transporting me to what he called “virtual water.”
Now that we know what Blue Mind is, (it’s a feeling of fascination that we might all feel around water) how do we apply it and make use of it in our lives to become happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what we do?
Dr. Nichols directs us to STEP 1 of this process where he says that we must first of all understand our own Blue Mind. I know that I am more creative around water. I know my kids have always loved swimming in the ocean, or swimming pools. What about you? How do you feel around water? Have you ever stood mesmerized looking at water, or ice, or fog, and wondered what was capturing your attention? I hope that you feel some sort of reassurance that this is something Dr. Nichols would hear all the time. Now what’s next? What do we DO with this Blue Mind Theory?
STEP 2: Mindfully practice Blue Mind in your life. When you are in what Dr. Nichols calls RED MIND (anxious or super stressed) go to the water, get in the water, float on the water, sit by the water, read your book by the water. Practice this evidence-based method that can help transform you to a better place and make this a part of your “emotional tool-kit.”
Dr. Nichols had a goal to make this common knowledge to transform well-being and wellness, while also transforming our ability to protect these waters.
Q2B: Then it happened, and I no longer am afraid to “feel” deep emotions. It happens ALL the time when I’m connecting with others at the heart level, during interviews, (or in life) and I know Dr. Nichols could see it, let alone “feel” it. My eyes started to tear up, and I had to ask “Why do some of us feel so emotional around the water?” I knew he understood what I was trying to ask him. I loved his answer. He said “when we are in the water, we’re vulnerable. Our armor fades away. We access connection, curiosity, compassion, to each other, ourselves and to the water.” He reminded me that “It’s a place for reflection. Deep reflection. Deep thought.” I love when I feel comfortable enough to be my whole self with someone else. It’s an incredible place to be. No need to pretend, or hide, or be someone I’m not. Just exist and be 100% myself. This is how I feel around water, and this inspires my writing, deeper thoughts, and a desire to connect and learn.
Dr. Nichols reminds us that “water soothes the soul” and this is written in the King James version of the Bible, Psalms 23, written 3,000 years ago. Having a bad day, (he says) get down to the water, it will soothe your soul. This is a deeply ancient concept and Dr. Nichols explains the scientific connection to “why” this happens, in his book. His research goes deep into the water/brain connection.
We make some of our best memories on the water, near the water, with the people we care about. This is true! In your mind, think about the photos you take. How many photos do you have of those you love, that have water associated with them? It doesn’t need to be the deep blue ocean. It was be frozen water (ice) or even fog.
We have our deepest thoughts around water. I know this is true for me! It doesn’t have to be the bluest ocean. Sometimes, on rare cooler days while hiking in the mountains, we can see fog, and it always stops me in my tracks. I never thought of this as Blue Mind until reflecting on Dr. Nichols’ words.
We have our nostalgia around water.
We learn a lot. We reflect a lot.
Our world is simplified around water. Our brain shifts to a different place. A place that Dr. Nichols refers to as Blue Mind.
All of this opens us up to emotions. Sad things. Happy things. We grieve at the water. Many of us cry in the shower but don’t forget that “water soothes the soul” (Psalms 23).
Q3: I wondered what Dr. Nichols discovered when he measured his brain in the water, and his response showed me how far technology has come. They went from their prototype cap, with wires, to now where he said we can measure our brain waves without wires while surfing, kayaking, floating or swimming. I still would like to try this.
If you want to do your own research, go to Google Scholar and type “blue mind, blue health or blue space” into the search bar, to learn more.
Q4: Dr. Nichols explains what happens to our brain while swimming, vs floating, when we are still. He shares that Dr. Feinstein would say our brains can go into delta waves (much deeper than theta) when we are floating).
Standing by a lake will give us this “meditative” state, but most people who have not done this before, might not stay there for 2 hours. Or they might think that mediation is boring. To overcome this, Dr. Nichols suggest, that you can put a fishing pole in their hand, and they might stick around the lake just a bit longer than usual.
Q5: How do we use BLUE MIND to become more self-aware? Dr. Nichols explains that when we are in a crisis of any kind RED MIND (feel anxious, urgency) our thinking narrows and we might feel panic which is useful at times, (it can help us) but it can also (when it’s triggered all the time) lead us to GREY MIND and will eventually burn us out.
So we must learn to rest, relax, breathe to gain perspective. Learn to pause to see things from a new angle. Take a more compassionate approach and you might appreciate the opponent better or learn to understand yourself better. This helps with problem solving and thinking.
IMAGINATION:
When you can’t get to the water, think about water with your own imagination. We don’t need to go to that turquoise water on the other side of the world. Blue scription is doing blue mind wherever you are.
I explained to Dr. Nichols during our interview that we had left the deep blue ocean. When we returned home, I completely forgot about ALL of the types of water we have available to us in Arizona, where we say we are land locked. Dr. Nichols opened up my mind, and uncovered a way for anyone to find water.
He would begin with…
WILD WATERS:
Start with wild waters
A river, lakes, oceans
DOMESTIC WATER:
Pool tub spa showers
Put a candle in bathroom
URBAN WATER:
Fountains to sit or walk by
VIRTUAL WATER:
Poetry songs recordings of water apps
Make your own recording of videos, of water to replay later.
Reminding us that we ALL have an abundance of water, even those of us who think we are land locked.
Q7: When I asked Dr. Nichols about our emotions, or why many people prefer to leave them out of the conversation, he reminds me that “our emotions are the hardest science in the room.” The Science of Emotion is rigorous and complex. He’s now fully aware that the science backs up our emotional side, and knows when this side is ignored, is usually from people who just are not aware of the vast amounts of science behind our emotions. His answer made me feel more comfortable with the fact I know I can “feel” deeply, and to not be afraid of this. I will just keep learning, to understand this difficult science, and am grateful I had this once in this lifetime opportunity to sit down and speak with Dr. Nichols, who opened my awareness up to a whole new level.
Q8: When I asked Dr. Nichols about what has impacted him the most over the years with his study, it was all about helping others. I know his work and Blue Mind Theory can save someone’s life, if you are struggling with a RED mind yourself, (to find peace) and once you’ve gone from RED MIND to BLUE MIND yourself, reach your hand out help others to get through their day.
Dr. Nichols reminds us that we ALL know someone who is sitting on their couch not sure what the point is, and urges us to go find them and get them to water (of some sort) wherever it is. Take them fishing, he says. Go find your water
Practice blue mind ourselves first, and then take someone else with you
Reminding us that water gives us peace of mind and heart.
At the end of this interview, I felt a deep connection to Dr. Nichols, so much so, that when I stopped recording, I couldn’t stop the tears. I felt his heart, and years of work with his Blue Mind Theory, and was moved to such a deep level. He understood what I was feeling, and I didn’t need to explain why I was crying. I’m sure it wasn’t the first time that he felt that someone “really connect” with his work.
Looking back now, I’m just grateful that I let him see the true authentic me. Not one that is guarded, or afraid. I had no armor on, was vulnerable just like while floating in water, and Dr. Nichols’ BLUE MIND THEORY message came through loud and clear.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION:
To review and conclude this review of our interview EP297 with Dr. Nichols last summer, I remind us to revisit Blue Mind Theory, no just this month, but every month, making it a part of our emotional tool kit. Every July 23rd is World Blue Mind Day, and I am committed to sharing Dr. Nichols’ work with new reflections each year.
I ask you, the listener, how do you connect to Dr. Nichols’ BLUE MIND THEORY?
When you feel RED MIND, what strategies do you have to move you back to peace and calm of BLUE MIND? Have you tried using the water for this?
I encourage everyone to read Blue Mind, and keep looking at the science. Keep practicing Blue Mind Theory.
STEP 1: Understand your BLUE MIND (what is YOUR Connection to being on near or in water)?
STEP 2: Practice BLUE MIND and finally, grab someone’s hand, and take them with you to water (where ever that might be). Dr. Wallace suggested fishing. I love swimming. What’s your favorite way to practice Blue Mind Theory?
For those of you who feel a deep connection to Dr. Nichols’s work, like me, I wanted to let you know that there is a verified Go Fund Me Page to help Dr. Nichols’ Foundation continue to raise funds to continue to raise awareness around the world. The Dr. Wallace J Nichols memorial fund was established to continue the work of one of the world’s most important environmentalists and change makers.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/nichols-memorial-fund
I’ll close out this episode with a reminder from Dr. Nichols book to keep learning and perfecting whatever Blue Mind is to you, with his final thoughts in our interview.
Q8: Hear from Dr. Nichols himself about what’s impacted him the most about the mystery within the ocean. While I can’t ever call up Dr. Nichols, and ask him for another interview, which is the sad part of this episode, I do believe that his legacy is an important one, and I will continue to reference and practice his Blue Mind Theory in my own life, as well as make connections back to his work in the future, so his work continues forward, helping others around the World, to find peace with this surprising science that shows how being near. In, on, or under water can make you happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what you do.
REFERENCES:
[i]Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Wallace J Nichols “Blue Mind” EP #297 https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/author-scientist-and-activistdrwallace-jnichols-on-blue-mind-the-surprising-science-that-shows-how-beingnear-inonor-underwatercanmakeyourhappier-h/
[ii] Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast YouTube Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Wallace J Nichols “Blue Mind” EP #297 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwx1jrHj33c&feature=youtu.be
[iii] Steve Jobs 2005 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc
[iv]Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Dan Siegel EP #28 on “Mindsight: The Basis for Social and Emotional Intelligence” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/clinical-professor-of-psychiatry-at-the-ucla-school-of-medicine-dr-daniel-siegel-on-mindsight-the-basis-for-social-and-emotional-intelligence/
[v] Sponge BobTV Series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants
[vi] Chasing Mavericks 2012 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1629757/
- Luisteren Nogmaals beluisteren Doorgaan Wordt afgespeeld...
- Later beluisteren Later beluisteren
Insights from Grant 'Upbeat' Bosnick: "Unlocking the Science of Persuasion and Influence" Chapter 10
22 jun 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 11 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity, and results using practical neuroscience.
In today's episode, number 336, we continue our 18-week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick's tailored approaches to self-leadership. We delve into Chapter 10, exploring the neural science of persuasion and influence. This topic emerged as a key focus area for 2024, providing insights into why understanding persuasion and influence is essential for long-term success.
We revisit past episodes and notable works like Jack Carew's You'll Never Get No for an Answer and Mark Waldman's Words Can Change Your Brain. Learn about the three modes of persuasion—logos, pathos, and ethos—as well as practical strategies for improving your persuasive approach.
Discover how to apply six scientifically validated principles of persuasion by Dr. Robert Cialdini, focusing on reciprocity, scarcity, and authority. These principles can help you build lasting influence and effectively communicate your ideas.
Join us as we explore the difference between persuasion and influence and how to use these skills to achieve your goals while helping others. This episode is dedicated to Monica Gilfillan, a highly influential figure in education, whose support and inspiration remind us of the power of helping others first.
Don't miss out on these valuable insights to enhance your self-leadership journey. Subscribe, review, and rate our podcast to stay updated with new episodes!
On today's EPISODE #336 we will cover:
✔ The difference between persuasion and influence.
✔ Strategies to improve our persuasion muscles and ways to become more influential for longer lasting relationships and impact.
✔ 3 Tips to Put the Science of Persuasion and Influence into Practice in our Daily Lives.
✔ Dedicated to Monica Gilliflan, a highly influential figure in education, whose support and inspiration remind us of the power of helping others first.
On today's episode #336 we continue with our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights in 2024.
For Today, EPISODE #336, we are moving on to Chapter 10, covering “The Neuroscience of Persuasion and Influence” which came as a surprise to me that Pathway Two, showed up as my highest area of focus for 2024. When I looked at the topics that are listed in this pathway, I can see why this area is a work in progress for me, and this self-assessment picked up that I need to make these 3 areas listed in this pathway, a priority in 2024. I’m paying attention to what neuroscience says about persuade and influence, in addition to inspiration, motivation that we covered on EP 324[ii] and presence, that’s the last chapter in this book, and I think the most important. (at least for me).
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[iii], look to see if Persuade and Influence is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year.
Thinking back on past episodes, I know we have not yet covered this topic entirely, except for the time I was asked to review Jack Carew’s classic book from 1987 called You’ll Never Get No For an Answer that was covered on EP176.[iv] We explored “Why Our Brains Don’t Like the Word No” and revisited Mark Waldman’s book from 2013 Words Can Change Your Brain where we were reminded that “Words can heal, or hurt—if you were in an fMRI scanner (that can take a video of the neural changes happening in your brain) (and you were told a firm NO! for something) we could record, in less than a second, a substantial increase of activity in your amygdala and the release of dozens of stress-producing hormones and neurotransmitters…that immediately interrupt the normal functioning of your brain, especially those that are involved with logic, reason, language processing, and communication. And the more you stay focused on negative words and thoughts, the more you can damage key structures that regulate your memory, feelings, and emotions. This may disrupt your sleep, your appetite, and the way your brain regulates happiness, longevity and health.”[v]
In this episode, we looked at 5/10 of Jack Carew’s unique strategies that American Author and Salesman Og Mandino encouraged us all to read to improve our communication and influence with others and I noticed that Strategy 2 was to stop looking out for number one and always look for how you can help others first.
So, after noticing this, I went straight to Chapter 10 of Grant Bosnick’s book, on “Persuade and Influence” to see what he had to say on this topic.
Right off the bat, in the opening of this chapter, Bosnick asks us to think about how we would persuade someone else to do something, like give you a pen you would like to have, for example, or ask for a promotion, or ask someone to buy something you are selling.
Then he differentiates the word persuade that he says “we can think of as quick, more direct, more for short-term or immediate gain” (Chapter 10, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership) while influence he says “is softer, more subtle, much more for longer term and lasting gain.” (Chapter 10, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership)
Persuasion Bosnick says is “more tactical, whereas influence is strategic.” He gives us the history of persuasion, explaining its origin from the early Greek Philosophers, and that Aristotle wrote about three modes of persuasion: logos (that’s about logic and reason), pathos (that’s about emotion and inspiration) and ethos (that’s about the speaker’s own character and credibility).
Thinking of Jack Carew’s second tip in his book to improve our influence with others (by putting other people first) I think is a good example of a strategy that builds this concept for long-lasting gain (influence) versus persuading someone to give me something that I need for short-term, or immediate gain (like, to pass me their pen, so I can write down something important that I’ll need to remember).
Bosnick provides a list of strategies to improve our persuasive approach, that includes giving people a sense of ownership, or automony to persuade them to take action with something, or by praising them, and making them feel good for taking action.
He offers an exercise to further build our persuasive skills by asking us to complete a sentence: I would like to persuade x to do the following.
Then he brings in Jack Carew’s strategy for becoming more influential and asks us to think about “what’s important to them: their goals, concerns, passions and values.” (Chapter 10, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership, Page 109).
Bosnick goes on to explain how to build influence and his exercise reminded me of a networking event I attended in 2014 called Ceospace.[vi] This was an organization where many leaders came up with an idea, and took their idea out into the world, with the help of a larger, more influential network. Author Adam Markel wrote that “it was one of the most magnificent places for entrepreneurs and business owners to come together to seek guidance, insights, inspiration, collaboration, and support.” It’s where Jack Canfield[vii] came up with the idea for his Chicken Soup for the Soul book series, where Lisa Nichols[viii] first began public speaking, and where countless thousands of others launched their ideas into the world.
The CEO of this organization passed away in 2020, and from what I can see, this organization didn’t thrive without his presence. This CEO, Berny Dohrman, had quite a life story. I felt a connection to Berny because of his passion to make an impact on our educational system. He wrote a book called Super Change[ix] that was about the tools and strategies needed to survive and thrive in an uncertain future.
What I think Berny Dohrmann had that was special, was that he used his influence, to create long lasting change in others. He did not persuade anyone to come to his events for short term results, but was able to influence others easily, with a vision for a better future. It all stemmed around his networking event, where participants would do speed rounds, to meet as many people as possible, asking the other person “What are you working on, and how can I help you.” At the end of the event, participants would have access to high level connections, all who were willing to share the strategies for success that worked for them. It was a brilliant idea, and I know this event took many leaders to new heights.
The Science of Persuasion and Influence
What was so special about how Berny Dohrmann influenced others? Why was Jack Carew’s book from the 1980s still being taught in sales training classes today? I had to look up the Science of Persuasion and Influence and found “6 Scientifically Validated Principles of Persuasion and Influence” that came from Dr. Robert Cialdini.[x] (Chald-ini) I picked the first three to highlight here.
Reciprocity. We are obliged to give if we have been given something. This was the whole idea behind Berny’s networking events. Participants didn’t ask for what they wanted FIRST, they offered to help someone else first, and after you had helped them, they would be more open to helping you. This was also Jack Carew’s second strategy. Stop looking out for number one. Always think of how you can help others first, and you will naturally draw them to want to help you back. Scarcity. If it's scarce, we want it more. Use this by highlighting the Benefits, Uniqueness and Possible Loss. Berny did this with his networking events by holding them twice a year. If you missed the event, you missed the chance to network with these brilliant minds. Jack Carew picked this as his 10th strategy for becoming more influential. He called his last chapter in the book “Become the Only Choice.” What if you missed the event that would change your future? Carew explains this concept like “the fear of loss.” No one want to miss an opportunity. There is a science to persuading and influencing others and it’s all about showing others how you (or what you offer) is unique and something that no one else (other than you) can offer. Authority. We are more likely to comply with a request if it is coming from a perceived authority/expert. Dr. Cialdini explains this one on the home page of his website, Influence at Work: Proven Science for Business Success. He says that “it’s important to signal to others what makes you credible before you attempt to influence them.”[xi] It’s better if you don’t do this yourself, and have someone else introduce you, with your credentials, first. This is what made Berny Dohrmann’s networking events successful as each participant was introduced to another person with their credentials and experience, that gave that person instant authority to help, or influence others.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #336 on Chapter 10 on “The Neuroscience of Persuading and Influencing”
DID YOU KNOW:
“There are 6 short cuts to increase the chances that someone will be persuaded?” (Robert Cialdini)
We covered the first three:
Reciprocity. We are obliged to give if we have been given something. Use the neuroscience of influence and persuasion, and think of ways to help others first, (just like Berny Dohrmann’s networking events), instead of thinking what you can gain from other people, think of what you can give to them. Always be the first to give and take the time to make sure what you are giving is personalized and useful to that person. This way, what you will give will have more meaning to that person. Scarcity. If it's scarce, we want it more. Use this by highlighting the Benefits, Uniqueness and Possible Loss. Take the time to find out how what you are offering to someone else, will help them. You will need to find out what they are looking for to do this, by asking questions, and listening. Then you can “frame what you are saying/offering, so others will find it to be valuable.”[xii] Authority. We are more likely to comply with a request if it is coming from a perceived authority/expert. Being introduced by others is a fast way to have others learn about your expertise, making you instantly more influential and persuasive.
We looked at Chapter 10 from Grant Bosnick’s Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership where Bosnick explained the difference between the word persuade that he says “we can think of as quick, more direct, more for short-term or immediate gain” (Chapter 10, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership) while influence he says “is softer, more subtle, much more for longer term and lasting gain.” (Chapter 10, Bosnick, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership).
We looked at a past episode on this topic, taking us back to Mark Waldman’s book from 2013 Words Can Change Your Brain reminding us to be careful of the words we choose to speak to others.
My take-away from this chapter: If I want to improve my influence, it begins with understanding the wants and needs of my audience first (how can I help them) and then being able to say what I mean, and mean what I say. The words I speak do matter when I’m working on gaining influence. If I’m speaking with someone, and not being completely honest, or not meaning what I say, I know that this can be felt by the other person, and it will hurt my ability to gain trust, rapport and influence. Our brains can detect “benefits and threats”[xiii] and I want to be sure that I’m drawing those I want to interact with towards me, not away from me.
Once I have gained influence with someone I am speaking with, then I can take my persuasion skills to the next level, and we can begin to work together on our common goals.
For example, if someone is asking me in a sales situation if I can offer them a discount. When I’ve build rapport and trust with this person, I can say “yes, I can give you 5% off this order, if you would be able to guarantee the order will come in by the end of this month.” We can begin to use our persuasion and influencing skills to not only give others what they need, but also negotiate with them, for what we need.
I hope this episode has helped to give you some ideas on ways to practice the neuroscience of persuading and influencing, to help others with their goals first, and then in turn, allow you to move yourself forward in this process, with these skills.
I also want to end this episode, with a mention to someone I ran into recently, who I had not seen about 10 years. I ran into Monica Gilfillan[xiv] an avid listener of this podcast, and I had no idea, until we spoke recently and she shared how these episodes were helping her with new ideas. This made me feel proud and grateful (coming from a peer) and did infuse me with some extra energy to keep going with these episodes. If there is someone I would list as highly influential, who knows how to persuade others, it’s Monica Gilfillan. Over the years, I noticed as I connected with a new person in the field of education, they were always connected to her. After she shared how the podcast was helping her, she went straight to ask me how she could help, and what I needed. We all need people in our network who are wired to help others, and I highly suggest connecting with Monica, especially if you are in the field of education. She is an influencer who everyone can benefit from knowing. I thought it was fitting to dedicate The Neuroscience of Persuasion and Influence to Monica Gilfillan and to thank her (and all of you who tune in) for listening.
CONNECT with Monica Gilfillan https://www.linkedin.com/in/monicagilfillan/
And with that, we will close out this episode. We’ll see you next with Chapter 11 on Time Management.
REVIEW
In this 18-week Series that we began in the beginning of February, (after I was inspired to cover Grant’s book after our interview the end of January) we are covering:
✔ Powerful tactics from this Grant Bosnick’s award-winning book that illustrates how change and achievement are truly achievable both from internal ('inside out') and external ('outside in') perspectives.
✔Listeners will grasp the immense power of self-leadership and its transformative effect on personal growth and success by applying the neuroscience Grant has uncovered in each chapter.
✔Explore practical strategies for habit formation and the impact of a self-assessment system.
✔Gain insights from Grant's expert advice on maintaining a balance between strengths and weaknesses while chasing after your goals.
✔Embark on an intellectual journey that has the power to elevate personal achievement and self-awareness to uncharted levels while we map out our journey over this 18-week course.
REFERENCES:
[i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #324 on “The Neuroscience of Inspiration and Motivation” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/a-self-leadership-series/
[iii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[iv]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #176 https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/the-neuroscience-of-communication-why-our-brain-doesn-t-like-the-word-no/
[v] Words Can Change Your Brain by Andrew Newberg, MD and Mark Robert Waldman, Published July 30, 2013 https://www.amazon.com/s?k=words+can+change+your+brain&gclid=CjwKCAjwoP6LBhBlEiwAvCcthCiCJCWZ-n3nMbmllmxcYj7pY9p3EGBjIT1liFGTzVVBlYWdxCBg6hoC3DMQAvD_BwE&hvadid=241598338504&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9030091&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=2910883915011355196&hvtargid=kwd-36327312367&hydadcr=15527_10340956&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_2ixec66yv3_e
[vi] https://ceospacemembers.com/
[vii] https://jackcanfield.com/
[viii] https://motivatingthemasses.com/
[ix] Super Change by Berny Dohrmann October 31, 2019 https://www.amazon.com/Super-Change-Survive-Thrive-Uncertain/dp/1949003906
[x] https://www.influenceatwork.com/7-principles-of-persuasion/
[xi] The Science of Persuasion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFdCzN7RYbw
[xii] The Neuroscience of Influence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-5CZ2AXT1o
[xiii] The Neuroscience of Influence Leadership Coaching by Dean Newlund https://mfileadership.com/2021/01/27/the-neuroscience-of-influence/
[xiv] Monica Gilfillan https://www.linkedin.com/in/monicagilfillan/
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Insights from Grant 'Upbeat' Bosnick "Emotion Regulation: The Neuroscience Behind Staying Strong and Clear-Headed" Chapter 9
16 jun 2024· Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning
Welcome back to Season 11 of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast! In episode 335, we delve into the neuroscience of emotion regulation, a crucial skill for personal and professional success. Host Andrea Samadi continues the 18-week self-leadership series inspired by Grant Bosnick’s book, focusing on strategies to enhance our ability to manage emotions effectively.
We explore practical tips from Bosnick, such as labeling emotions, creating distance from them, and reframing situations to view them more positively. Additionally, we highlight the importance of sleep for emotion regulation, drawing insights from experts like Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Matthew Walker. Discover how improving your sleep quality can lead to better emotional control and overall well-being.
Join us as we connect the dots between neuroscience, sleep, and emotional intelligence to help you achieve greater heights in 2024 and beyond.
On today's episode #335 we continue with our 18-Week Self-Leadership Series based on Grant Bosnick’s “Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership: A Bite Size Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience” that we first dove into with our interview on EP #321[i] the end of January. The goal was that each week, we focused on learning something new, (from Grant’s book) that builds off the prior week, to help take us to greater heights in 2024.
For Today, EPISODE #335, we are moving on to Chapter 9, covering “The Neuroscience of Emotion Regulation” which showed up on my leadership self-assessment as a low, RED score, of 20%, but again, not because it’s not something I don’t need to pay attention to, this is something I pay attention to daily, right up there with physical health that is listed in Pathway Four of Grant’s Self-Leadership Map.
If you’ve taken the leadership self-assessment[ii], look to see if Emotion Regulation is of a low, medium or high priority for you to focus on this year.
Before looking at what Grant Bosnick has to say about Emotion Regulation in Chapter 9 of his book, I looked around to see what else I could find on this topic.
We actually have already covered this topic as one of the six social emotional learning competencies that we launched this podcast with, back in August, 2019[iii] and we called that episode “Self-Regulation: The Foundational Learning Skill for Future Success.” In this early episode, we defined self-regulation as “the ability to manage your emotions and behavior in accordance of the situation. It includes being able to resist highly emotional reactions to upsetting stimuli, to calm yourself down when you get upset, adjust to a change in expectations and (the ability) to handle frustration”[iv] In other words, it’s the ability to bounce back after a setback or disappointment, and the ability to stay in congruence with your inner value system.
HOW TO HELP OUR CHILDREN WITH EMOTION REGULATION:
We covered some tips on this early episode to help our children to practice this skill, and strengthen their “self-regulation” muscles, beginning with:
Naming the emotion they are experiencing at a given moment, with a strategy (like stopping to take some deep breaths when something frustrates or overwhelms them) so they can keep working, and move forward.Uncovering what motivates each of us to develop intrinsic motivation that can help propel us forward.Taking brain breaks, or “unfocused moments” that allow for the brain to solve problems during these resting states.
WHAT GRANT BOSNICK SUGGESTS FOR EMOTION REGULATION:
Then we covered some tips to help us to continue to strengthen these self-regulation skills in the workplace, and I wondered what Grant Bosnick had to say in chapter 9 of his book on this topic. Within the second paragraph of this chapter, he explains the science behind emotion regulation when he outlines that “neuroscience has shown us that the exact same feelings we get from a physical threat also occur as social and emotional threats.” (Page 91, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick). This took me back to working with children with this foundational learning skill, that determines future success, and the whole idea that “social and emotional threats” can impact us (stop us in our tracks) exactly as if there was a actual physical threat (like coming face to face with a bear in the forest).
In Chapter 9, Grant explains some different ways to regulate our emotions, and he uses a graphic to demonstrate how to move forward, while regulating our emotions, instead of spiraling out of control, downwards, and it begins with where we focus our attention. If we focus on the emotional aspects, he tells us “it will drive us into a downward spiral” but if we learn to “focus on the nonemotional aspects, or distance ourselves (from whatever it is that is bothering us) this is the start to creating an upward spiral.” (Page 94, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick).
IMAGE CREDIT: Image 9.2 from Grant Bosnick's Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership
TIP 1: LEARN TO LABEL OUR EMOTIONS:
Bosnick agrees with the steps we created to build emotion regulation in our children, as he also mentions the importance of being able to name or label the emotion that you are having first.
TIP 2: DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM EMOTIONS THAT ARE BOTHERING YOU TO PROVIDE TEMPORARY RELIEF: Then he suggests to find ways to distance yourself from the emotion (he calls this attentional deployment) to give you temporary relief from the situation. He mentions seeing the issue through someone else’s eyes, and I remember Dr. Maiysha Clairborne sharing this strategy back on EP 289[v] when she explained the importance of stepping into someone else’s shoes when you are in conflict with them, to feel what they feel, and even stepping back and looking at the entire problem from above (outside of anyone’s shoes) to gain a new perspective.
TIP 3: REFRAME THE CONFLICT: Next Bosnick suggests “reappraisal or reframing” the conflict, by looking at it in a more positive way. He mentions that mindfulness can help us to “take a step back, lower anxiety, bring attention to the moment, become less judgmental about what is happening, help the brain to not attach meaning to the emotions and be open to new meaning and new connections.” (Page 97, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick). He suggests looking at the situation from someone else’s point of view to reframe it.
TIP 4: LEARN TO REGULATE OUR EMOTIONS BY FINDING STRATEGIES THAT KEEP US STRONG, AND CLEAR HEADED: It’s his last technique of “response modulation” that caught my attention the most, because we’ve all experienced this. Once we are hit with an emotion about something, he asks “is it better to suppress it, or acknowledge it?” (Page 99, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick). He says “when we feel strong, clear-headed and have executive control, it is better to acknowledge the emotion so we can regulate it.” (Page 100, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick).
EMOTION REGULATION AND SLEEP:
So in a world where we are hit daily by external stimuli, how on the earth can we be proactive to stay mentally strong and clear-headed so we have improved executive control to manage our emotions and regulate them? This took me straight to the work of Dr. Andrew Huberman, and Dr. Matthew Walker who recently recorded an episode called “Improve Sleep to Boost Mood and Emotion Regulation.” [vi] It was here where I learned just how important sleep is for keeping a strong, clear mind, so we can use this strength to acknowledge and regulate our emotions, like Bosnick suggested.
Dr. Walker, a professor of neuroscience and psychology at the University of California, Berkeley and the host of The Matt Walker Podcast, gave example after example that proved that when you’ve NOT had a good night’s sleep, things that wouldn’t bother you (when you’ve slept well), begin to aggravate, or grate on you more.
Here’s what I found to be remarkable on this topic, something I had not ever heard before.
DID YOU KNOW that "The greater amount of REM sleep you are getting (where our dreams occur), the greater amount of emotional detox you will get the next day?" (Dr. Matthew Walker).
Dr. Walker went on to explain that “the brain chemical noradrenaline (that’s responsible for our stress reaction) completely shuts off during REM sleep, and serotonin (that plays a role with our mood) decreases, while acetyl choline (that carries messages from our brain to our body through nerve cells) increases by up to 30% in some parts of the brain (and can be even more active than when we were awake). Dr. Walker concluded that the decrease of stress related brain chemicals is what makes “REM sleep was the perfect condition for overnight therapy.”
If we want to improve our emotion regulation, the science is pointing directly to improving our sleep.
Diving deep into the 4 stages of sleep and suggestions to improve our sleep is something I’ve been working on for the past 5 years. There is a lot to this, and I’m still working on improving ALL the macroingredients of a good sleep (suggested by Dr. Walker), that include QQRT, or knowing the quantity (amount of sleep), quality (fragmented vs continuous), regularity (sleeping/waking around the same time) and timing (sleeping in alignment with my chronotype). Dr. Walker dives deep into all these areas with Dr. Huberman, and if you do wonder where you can improve, I highly suggest their 6-part series on sleep.
TIPS FOR IMPROVING EMOTION REGULATION BY IMPROVING OUR SLEEP:
Here are three tips that I took away from the neuroscience of self-regulation, that I’ve been working on, to see if improving my sleep in these areas, could possibly improve emotion regulation.
KNOW HOW MUCH DEEP SLEEP WE ARE GETTING EACH NIGHT: We all know the importance of knowing how much sleep we are getting to be well-rested the next day, (how many hours or the quantity) but it’s also important to keep an eye on the QUALITY or amount of DEEP RESTORATIVE sleep we are getting each night.
Most of us could all sleep a bit longer (or I’ll speak for myself here) because this is one area that’s hard to do living in Arizona. If I want to beat the summer heat, we need to wake up early to exercise before the heat advisory warnings go off around 8am, and this means that to get one benefit, (daily exercise) it comes at the cost of losing some sleep.
In addition to knowing I need to improve how long I’m sleeping, (and ways to offset waking up early for exercise) it’s also being sure that I’m getting quality sleep each night. This is my current area of focus that I’ve been tracking the past few months. You can see from the diagram in the show notes that there are some nights I went above my average of 2 hours 22 minutes of restorative sleep, measuring this using the Whoop wearable tracker, and other nights I was far below. When I looked at what was happening in my life on those days where restorative sleep was low, there wasn’t anything that stood out, other than when I began to pay attention to ALL areas of sleep (QQRT-quality, quantity, regularity and timing), restorative sleep improved. There are many type of trackers you can use to track restorative sleep. The tracker I use tells me how much deep sleep I’m getting (that’s physically restorative) and how much REM sleep (that’s mentally restorative).
KNOW HOW MUCH REM SLEEP WE ARE GETTING:
Keeping an eye on how much REM sleep we getting, is my next tip, since we know it’s important for consolidating new memories, learning and motor skills. We also just learned that the more REM sleep we are getting, we can say we are getting some good overnight therapy, restoring ourselves mentally. You can find sleep trackers that can help you to measure and track these important ingredients of a good sleep for yourself, and see how much REM sleep you are getting each night, while keeping in mind that “the greater amount of REM sleep you are getting, the greater amount of emotional detox you will get the next day.” (Dr. Walker)
I noticed this number improved just by forcing myself to stay in bed a little bit longer, even if it was only waking up, and saying “try to go back to sleep for another 15 or 20 minutes” and this improved REM sleep, since the REM sleep rich phase is at the end of the night. You can see the purple areas on the graph of my REM sleep in the show notes, right at the end of my sleep. If I had not pushed to stay asleep till after 5:00am (my internal clock would have me getting up at 4am) then I would have missed out on some valuable REM sleep here. If you can measure this for yourself, you can find ways to increase this valuable sleep stage for yourself. I’ll also add that if you can remember your dreams, especially the ones just before you wake up, you can learn a lot about yourself, increasing your self-awareness.
Remember, we are working on ways to help with our emotion regulation, and it seems to me, that an easy way to do this, would be to see how we can improve our REM sleep.
APPLY THE SCIENCE OF SLEEP TO IMPROVE EMOTION REGULATION: Since “during REM sleep the stress chemicals are turned off” helping us to “strip away the emotion from the memory” we can take this understanding a step further, and see if we are able to solve any of our problems during sleep.
Dr. Huberman and Dr. Walker went into great detail about this concept[vii] that I’ve actually witnessed it first-hand. They described what happens in REM sleep to be like “Behavior-Desensitization” and I had the opportunity to see the stages of this process, done by someone skilled and trained in trauma and the brain, working with someone I know well, who has experiences significant trauma in their life, starting at an early age. Using a series of techniques, the trained therapist took the client safely from talking about a traumatic memory from their childhood, (with exteme emotion attached) to where they could say out loud that the memory had lost its emotional load and no longer gave them an emotional reaction. This is exactly what happens to our brain during REM sleep and why it’s mentally restorative.
Putting these tips all together, and knowing that improving the quality, and quantity of sleep is linked to improving emotion regulation, I’m working hard to improve restorative sleep and REM sleep, each month. I hope these tips have given you some insight on NEW ways that sleep can improve our emotion regulation.
REVIEW AND CONCLUSION
To review and conclude this week’s episode #335 on Chapter 9 on “The Neuroscience of Emotion Regulation”
We looked at where we covered self-regulation in our early days of this podcast back in August of 2019, with some tips for teaching this skill to our children or students. This skill is one of 6 social and emotional skills that are finally being taught in our schools today. This is a foundational skill for future success.
We looked at Grant Bosnick’s suggestion to regulate emotions in his book, Tailored Approaches to Self-Leadership with his chart that suggests:
TIP 1: Labelling our emotions, and looking for a way to distract/create distance from them to provide temporary relief. If we focus on the emotional aspects, he tells us “it will drive us into a downward spiral”
TIP 2: If we learn to “focus on the non-emotional aspects, or distance ourselves (from whatever it is that is bothering us) this is the start to creating an upward spiral.”
TIP 3: Reframing the emotion, or changing the way we think about it, by looking at the problem from a different perspective, can help to see it in a more positive way.
TIP 4: In Bosnick’s last technique of “response modulation” he mentioned that once we are hit with an emotion about something, he asks “is it better to suppress it, or acknowledge it?” (Page 99, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick). He says “when we feel strong, clear-headed and have executive control, it is better to acknowledge the emotion so we can regulate it.” (Page 100, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick).
CONNECTING THE SCIENCE OF SLEEP TO IMPROVE EMOTION REGULATION:
This led us to dive deeper into the neuroscience of emotion regulation with the work of Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Matthew Walker, known as The Sleep Diplomat.
“Sleep moves the needle on almost every aspect of brain and body health” Matt Walker
Before listening to Dr. Walker’s most recent episode with Dr. Huberman, I had no idea that the research would point to a direct correlation with a good night’s sleep and our emotion regulation.
DID YOU KNOW that “The greater amount of REM sleep we are getting, the greater amount of emotional detox we will get the next day?” (Dr. Matthew Walker).
Grant Bosnick said that “when we feel strong, clear-headed and have executive control, it is better to acknowledge the emotion so we can regulate it.” (Page 100, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick).
It therefore makes sense to me that in order to strengthen emotion regulation, then we must therefore strengthen our sleep.
3 TIPS FOR IMPROVING EMOTION REGULATION BY MEASURING OUR SLEEP:
KNOW HOW MUCH DEEP SLEEP WE ARE GETTING EACH NIGHT KNOW HOW MUCH REM SLEEP WE ARE GETTING KNOW THAT INCREASING REM SLEEP= OVERNIGHT THERAPY
Finally, how will we know if we are improving our emotion regulation by improving our sleep? Ask yourself how well you are doing with this. Remember: When we feel strong, clear-headed and have executive control, (it is better to acknowledge the emotion so) we will be able to better manage our emotions. (Page 100, Chapter 9, Emotional Regulation, Bosnick).
This is a work in progress for me, but without asking anyone else, I know that the research is accurate when it shows that
“sleep deprivation increases reactivity in the amygdala by 60%.”[viii]
To best way to improve reactivity in the amygdala, is by getting sufficient sleep. Improving all the ingredients of sleep (quality, quantity, regularity and timing).
I also know that when I’m getting a good night sleep, my senses are more activated, and I can see more beauty in the world, especially with others around me.
I’m more accepting of myself, and know that I’m stronger and more peaceful, which is what Grant Bosnick suggested for being able to improve this foundational success skill.
This translates to the work I’m doing, looking at the world through a different lens where life becomes more joyful, creating hope that anything is possible (for myself and others).
And all of this came from connecting the science behind a good night’s sleep to emotion regulation.
I hope this episode has given you some helpful ideas, and we will see you next time, as we move to chapter 10 of Grant Boswick’s book on the Science Behind Persuading and Influencing.
REVIEW
In this 18-week Series that we began in the beginning of February, (after I was inspired to cover Grant’s book after our interview the end of January) we are covering:
✔ Powerful tactics from this Grant Bosnick’s award-winning book that illustrates how change and achievement are truly achievable both from internal ('inside out') and external ('outside in') perspectives.
✔Listeners will grasp the immense power of self-leadership and its transformative effect on personal growth and success by applying the neuroscience Grant has uncovered in each chapter.
✔Explore practical strategies for habit formation and the impact of a self-assessment system.
✔Gain insights from Grant's expert advice on maintaining a balance between strengths and weaknesses while chasing after your goals.
✔Embark on an intellectual journey that has the power to elevate personal achievement and self-awareness to uncharted levels while we map out our journey over this 18-week course.
REFERENCES:
[i]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #321 with Grant ‘Upbeat’ Bosnick https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/insights-from-grant-upbeat-bosnick/
[ii] Self-Assessment for Grant Bosnick’s book https://www.selfleadershipassessment.com/
[iii] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #14 “Self-Regulation: The Foundational Skill for Future Success” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/self-regulation-the-foundational-learning-skill-for-future-success/
[iv] How Can We Help Our Kids with Self-Regulation https://childmind.org/article/can-help-kids-self-regulation/amp/
[v]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #289 with Dr. Maiysha Clairborne on “What Hold Us Back: Getting to the Roots of Our Doubts, Fears and Beliefs” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/maiysha-clairborne-md-on-what-holds-us-back-getting-to-the-root-of-our-doubts-fears-and-beliefs/
[vi] Dr. Matt Walker: Improve Sleep to Boost Mood & Emotional Regulation | Huberman Lab Guest Series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_SrHS8FvMM
[vii] Dr. Matt Walker: Improve Sleep to Boost Mood & Emotional Regulation | Huberman Lab Guest Series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_SrHS8FvMM
[viii] IBID
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