Afleveringen
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We lead with the possible IPOs from OpenAI, Anthropic and SpaceX, and the much bigger question behind them: where is all that money supposed to come from?
The capital markets seem to believe the answer is labor. If AI valuations are going to make any sense, then the bet is not simply that AI companies will sell more software. The bet is that AI will absorb, replace or reorganize a massive piece of the payroll line. Joe believes marketers need to prepare for a labor reckoning sooner rather than later. Robert is more skeptical. As usual, the truth may be somewhere in the middle.
Then the boys break down Bending Spoons and its rollup of old internet and media brands, including AOL, Vimeo, Evernote and others. The lesson for marketers? Distressed media assets inside your industry may be one of the biggest opportunities nobody is talking about. In a world where building audience from scratch is harder than ever, the cheapest audience may be the one someone else forgot they owned.
In Winners and Losers, Joe's winner is FIFA, which reminded every marketer that rented land is always rented land, even when your name is on the stadium. Robert's loser is Turner Classic Movies.
In Rants and Raves, Joe raves about Pat McAfee's new media model and what happens when an expert builds the audience, owns the IP and lets big media rent access. Robert has commentary on MrBeast's claim that he could build a faceless YouTube channel to 20 million subscribers in six months, and what that says about formats, systems and the future of creator media.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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This week, Joe and Robert dig into the media reckoning hitting some of the biggest names in digital publishing. Vice, BuzzFeed, Vox, and others once represented the future of media, with massive valuations, venture money, and platform-driven scale. Now, many of those same companies have been sold, split apart, or pushed into bankruptcy. The boys ask the uncomfortable question: how did companies worth billions become cautionary tales?
On the flip side, 1440 just received a $101 million valuation with only 27 employees and a focused newsletter-first model. The company generates about $1 million per employee and has built a direct relationship with nearly 5 million subscribers. Joe and Robert discuss why this is the same lesson they have been talking about for years: don't build your content house on rented land. Owned audience, discipline, and direct trust still win.
Then the conversation turns to the growing demand for live experiences and even print products. Investors are rewarding live entertainment, movie theaters, concerts, and premium in-person experiences, while print continues to show surprising signs of life in certain corners of media. Is this a true long-term opportunity, or just a small bubble created by digital exhaustion?
Winners and LosersJoe's winner is the baklava guy outside Knicks games, a perfect example of small, weird, consistent marketing becoming part of the fan experience.
Robert's winner and loser is Ferrari's new design.
In rants and raves, Joe talks about Nate B. Jones changing his AI newsletter frequency, moving away from the daily news grind and toward a more useful weekly cadence.
Robert closes with commentary on the death of per-seat pricing and what it means for the coming SaaS apocalypse.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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This week, the boys open with Meta's new subscription plans for Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp and Meta AI. The features are mostly small upgrades, but the bigger story is clear: Meta is building a toll road around access, visibility and creation. The rent on rented land keeps going up.
From there, Joe and Robert talk about LinkedIn's campaign against "AI slop." LinkedIn says it wants to reduce low-value AI content, generic posts and engagement bait. But is it really getting rid of anything, or just marketing the idea of a cleaner feed? The platform rewarded slop long before AI arrived. AI just made it easier to scale.
Winners and LosersJoe's winner is YouTube creator Curry Barker and the box office success of Obsession, another reminder that creators can still break through outside the traditional Hollywood machine.
Robert's winners are OpenAI's new CMO and brands making music videos.
Rants and RavesJoe raves about The Guardian's U.S. success and its growing donation-supported business. It's a strong example of a media company building direct audience trust and turning that trust into revenue.
Robert's commentary is on Rand Fishkin's take that "inimitable product" is the new "make great content."
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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This week, Joe and Robert start with Google's massive AI search shift and the uncomfortable reality for marketers, publishers and creators: the click may no longer be the point.
Google has turned search into something closer to an answer engine, and Joe has officially come around to Robert's long-held view. Google may have created an even better business model than the one it already had, and the old one was pretty darn good. Instead of sending people out to websites, Google can now keep users inside its own experience, answer more complex questions, and eventually handle more of the buying, research and decision journey itself.
So what does that mean for marketers? It means the old SEO bargain is breaking. Ranking is no longer enough. Getting the click is no longer guaranteed. And if Google becomes the destination instead of the doorway, brands need to think very differently about trust, authority, direct relationships and what it actually means to be found.
The Feed Is FakeNext, the boys discuss the Vulture article on how social feeds are increasingly being manufactured through clipping, coordinated amplification and artificial momentum.
The big takeaway: marketers can no longer assume that views, likes, comments or shares are clean signals of audience interest. If popularity can be engineered, then trust signals become more important than ever.
Joe and Robert also wonder whether this is just a strange temporary window. Are we in a one-to-two-year messy middle where fake feeds, synthetic content and AI-generated attention overwhelm the system before the platforms fix it, users reject it, or the whole thing collapses into something else?
Either way, the advice is clear: do not build your strategy on fake momentum. Build something people can actually trust.
Marketing Winners and LosersJoe's winner: The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist. Joe liked that the documentary did not simply take one side of the AI debate. It explored both the optimism and the fear around AI, giving space to the people who believe AI could unlock enormous progress and those who believe it could create enormous harm.
Robert's winner: Publicis, which agreed to acquire LiveRamp for approximately $2.2 billion in cash. The move gives Publicis deeper data capabilities at a time when first-party data, identity, privacy-safe collaboration and AI-powered marketing are becoming central to competitive advantage.
Rants and RavesJoe's rave: Rishad Tobaccowala on the future of work.
Robert's rant: Palantir and the "SaaS is dead" narrative. Robert reacts to the idea that traditional software-as-a-service is being replaced by a more AI-driven model, sometimes described as "service as software." The boys unpack whether this is a real business model shift or just another big tech phrase looking for a market.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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This week on This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert break down OpenAI's latest move: launching a full-blown AI consultancy for enterprise companies.
The big question: is this a smart response to large companies moving too slowly on AI integration, or is it a sign that OpenAI is feeling pressure to generate revenue wherever it can?
The boys also follow up on OpenAI's move into shopping and advertising. As ChatGPT gets closer to product discovery, recommendations, and transactions, Joe and Robert ask whether ChatGPT is becoming the next great transaction engine, or whether this is another signal of desperation from a company trying to do too much at once.
Then, the conversation turns to politics and media, as the 2028 presidential candidates increasingly look and act like content creators. What does that mean for trust, audience building, and the future of political marketing?
This week's marketing winners and losers include Netflix, Disney and LinkedIn.
Rants and RavesRobert rants about a recent article in Rolling Stone and how it misses the mark in content and in ad tech.
Joe raves about micro communities and why the future of content marketing may not be about reaching the largest possible audience, but about becoming truly valuable to the smallest audience that matters.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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In this episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert dig into OpenAI's very rough week. From missed targets and questions about future contract payments to legal proceedings involving Elon Musk, the company suddenly looks a lot less inevitable than it did just a few months ago.
Then OpenAI launches a self-service advertising platform, which leads Joe to ask the big question: Is ChatGPT turning into Yahoo? Robert sees it a little differently, arguing that the better comparison may be Netscape. Either way, the boys agree that OpenAI may be trying to do too many things at once while Anthropic continues to gain ground.
Next, Joe and Robert discuss Coinbase and its latest round of layoffs. The company says AI is part of the reason, but is that the real story, or just a convenient excuse? They also look at the strong performance from Uber and Disney, and what it may say about the rise of local and regional experiences in today's service economy.
In Marketing Winners and Losers, Heineken gets attention, and the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District makes another appearance as a surprisingly effective content and social media operator.
In Rants and Raves, Joe honors Ted Turner and his incredible impact on marketing, media and publishing. Robert closes with a rant about the California governor's race and what it says about media, politics and the state of public discourse.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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This week, Joe and Robert break down a Wall Street Journal article about big brands putting more money into individual creators.
While micro-influencers continue to be an important trend, the boys believe there may be an even bigger opportunity sitting inside most companies: employees. If brands want trusted voices, they should not only rent them from the outside. They should invest in their own internal talent and help employees become trusted experts, creators, and community builders.
In other news, Taylor Swift has filed new trademark applications, including sound marks, to help protect her voice and likeness from unauthorized AI usage. Joe and Robert ask whether brands should be thinking about similar protections as AI-generated content becomes easier to create and harder to control.
Marketing Winners and LosersRobert's winner is Taco Bell for its big NFL Draft moment involving first-round pick Fernando Mendoza.
Joe's winner is Anthropic for hiring an events director, a signal that even AI companies understand the power of in-person experiences, brand trust, and human connection.
Rants and RavesRobert rants about Nike's controversial Boston Marathon advertisement and what happens when edgy creative misses the moment.
Joe's commentary focuses on prediction markets and the marketing opportunities that may be coming, but have not fully arrived yet.
This Week's TakeawayBrands are waking up to the power of individual creators. But the smartest companies may realize that some of their best creators are already on the payroll.
Other links: Are NFT's Back?Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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In this special episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert step away from marketing and talk about something more personal: the health changes they've made, why they made them, and what they've learned along the way. Both share the specific moments that pushed them to take their health more seriously, along with the physical, mental, and long-term brain health concerns that made those decisions impossible to ignore.
Joe walks through the habits and strategies that have shaped his approach, including intermittent fasting, creatine, resistance training, and reducing negative social media exposure. Robert then shares his experience with GLP-1s, what the process has been like in practice, and how it has affected the way he thinks about weight, health, energy, and the future.
This is an honest conversation about getting older, paying attention, and trying to make smarter choices for the years ahead.
Disclaimer:
This episode is based entirely on Joe and Robert's personal experiences and should not be taken as medical advice. Everyone's body, health history, and needs are different. Please do your own research and consult a qualified medical professional before making any health-related changes.Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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Joe and Robert dig into Anthropic's launch of Mythos and Project Glasswing and ask the bigger question: is this the moment marketers need to wake up to the fact that AI is not just a tool shift, but a business model shift? Joe argues this may be AI's Napster moment, the point where the future is suddenly visible and the old rules no longer apply.
They also discuss the attack on Sam Altman's house and what it says about the growing anti-AI backlash. As fear, frustration, and economic anxiety build, what does the AI industry need to understand before resistance gets louder and more dangerous?
Finally, HubSpot makes headlines with its media acquisition, but the bigger conversation is the company's decision to rename its flagship event from Inbound to Unbound. Joe and Robert both believe the move is a mistake and break down why consistency, memory, and brand equity matter more than clever repositioning.
In this episode:
Anthropic launches Mythos and Project Glasswing Why Joe calls this the Napster moment for AI What marketers need to do now as the model changes The Sam Altman attacks and the rise of anti-AI anger What AI companies are missing about public frustration HubSpot's media move Why changing Inbound to Unbound may be a branding error The value of consistency in event strategyWinners and Losers/Rants and Raves
Joe's Winner: A gas station that turned into a speakeasy Joe's Rave: The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Robert's Loser: DoorDash Robert's Commentary: The four categories of AI perception (inspired from this article)Closing Thought:
The old marketing playbook is getting shaky fast. The question is no longer whether AI will change the rules. The question is whether marketers are willing to admit the rules have already changed.Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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What would Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose do if they had to build a media company from scratch in 2026?
In this special episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert tackle that exact question. Starting with zero audience, limited resources, and a media landscape flooded with AI-generated content, shifting algorithms, and declining trust, they break down what kind of media company they would actually build today.
Would they start with a newsletter, a podcast, YouTube, or LinkedIn? What niche would they choose? How would they make money in the first 12 months? And in a world where content is cheap and everywhere, what would make the business truly defensible?
Throughout the episode, Joe and Robert walk through the key questions any modern media entrepreneur should ask:
Who is the specific audience? What problem are they solving? Which platform should come first? What content tilt or point of view is unique enough to stand out? What business model makes the most sense early? What should be avoided completely? And what creates a moat when AI can produce endless content?This is part strategy session, part debate, and part reality check for anyone thinking about launching a media brand today. If you were starting over in 2026, this episode will help you think through what to build, what to ignore, and where the biggest opportunities still are.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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Anthropic may or may not have "accidentally" leaked its code, but Joe and Robert think the bigger story is what the company's newest release says about the future of white-collar work and marketing itself. They also tackle the slowing labor market, whether marketing jobs are in danger, and if a recession is actually coming. Rounding out the episode: Cameo's TikTok partnership, Oracle's ugly layoffs, Search Engine Journal's ad-free decision, and two documentary picks worth your time.
Full Episode Notes
This Old Marketing: Anthropic Leaks, Job Market Freezes, and Cameo's Last Cameo?
Joe and Robert kick off the show with the strange case of Anthropic's code leaking into public view. Was it a true accident, or one of the smartest marketing plays we've seen in a while? Either way, it got the market's attention.
Staying with Anthropic, the hosts dig into the company's latest release and what it means Openclaw. With everyone suddenly convinced that Claude can replace all sorts of white-collar work, Joe and Robert ask the question marketers should actually care about: what does this mean for marketing teams, creative work, and knowledge workers trying to stay relevant?
Next, the conversation turns to the slowing U.S. labor market. Hiring continues to soften, but layoffs remain relatively low. So what are we really looking at here? A recession in the making, or simply an economic deep freeze? And more specifically, should marketers be worried about their jobs, or just ready for a very different kind of employment market?
Later in the show, Joe and Robert look at Cameo's new partnership with TikTok. Is this a smart move that gives Cameo fresh life and relevance, or is it another sign that the business is nearing the end of its useful run?
Then it's time for Winners and Losers. Robert names Oracle his loser of the week after the company fired thousands of employees in what he sees as a tone-deaf and tasteless move. Joe picks Search Engine Journal as his winner for making the rare decision to remove all programmatic advertising from its site.
To close, both hosts share their Rants and Raves. Joe recommends Man on the Run, the Paul McCartney documentary. Robert highlights Louis Theroux's new documentary, The Manosphere.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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This week, Joe opens the show with a quick take on the banning of "AI Fruit Love Island" and can't believe Robert isn't already a loyal subscriber.
Joe and Robert then dig into a landmark legal verdict against social media platforms, focusing on Meta's Instagram and Google's YouTube. The big shift? Instead of the usual failed arguments around Section 230, these new cases are targeting platform design itself, claiming the products were intentionally built to be addictive. Joe and Robert discuss whether this could become a true "big tobacco" moment for social media, with larger legal and financial consequences ahead.
Next up, OpenAI shuts down Sora after the Disney deal. Is this a warning sign for OpenAI's long-term strategy, or just a simple business decision to cut a product that wasn't generating revenue and was draining resources? Joe and Robert break it down. Plus, OpenAI hires a new ad chief (which is always a good sign, right?).
Finally, TikTok rolls out new video advertising programs at NewFronts, and Joe and Robert see it as more evidence of a race to the bottom in digital media.
Marketing Losers of the Week
Robert looks at the Publicis versus The Trade Desk battle.
Joe calls out Apple for confirming that ads are coming to Apple Maps.Rants and Raves
Robert shares thoughts on courts temporarily allowing Perplexity AI shopping agents on Amazon.
Joe raves about the greatness of Rick Rubin and why his approach may tell us something important about the AI future.Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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A new piece from the Wall Street Journal introduces the idea of being "alternatively influential"…people who drive real impact without massive follower counts.
Joe and Robert break it down:
Is this just a rebrand of "niche creator" or "thought leader"?
Or is it actually the future of influence in an AI-saturated world?
And most importantly…does audience size matter less than trust, proximity, and credibility?
The bigger question: Are we entering an era where being known by the right people beats being known by everyone?
AI Isn't Just Helping…It Might Be HurtingA new Morning Brew piece highlights research showing that AI can actually decrease focus and increase mental fatigue when overused.
Key findings:
Productivity rises with 1–3 AI tools…then drops off after that
Workers report "mental overload" and decision fatigue
Time saved gets filled with more work, not better work
Joe and Robert's take:
This isn't really about AI
It's about multitasking overload
AI just accelerates a problem we already had
Bottom line: More tools ≠ better thinking
Substack Goes Full Stack (Again)
Focus is still the competitive advantageSubstack continues expanding its platform, now rolling out a recording studio feature to support video and podcast creation.
The discussion:
Substack is no longer "just newsletters"
It's becoming a complete creator operating system
Email platforms, podcast hosts, and even YouTube should be paying attention
The real question: Does Substack become the home base for creators…or just another tool in the stack?
Winners and Losers Marketing Winner: Calvin KleinDakota Johnson's new campaign hits the mark
Clean, simple, effective brand storytelling that cuts through the noise
Marketing Loser: The OscarsStill struggling to stay culturally relevant
A branding problem, not just a ratings problem
Marketing Loser (Joe): World Baseball Classic TimingGreat product…questionable timing
Hard to build momentum when the schedule works against you
Rants and Raves Joe's Rant: Why Team USA Lost to VenezuelaJoe's hot take:
It wasn't about effort
It was about constraints
Team USA had:
Contracts
Pitch limits
Usage concerns
Calls from MLB teams
Meanwhile, Venezuela had:
Fewer restrictions
More freedom to just play
The lesson: The team with less to manage often performs better
Robert's Rave: Where AI Actually Gets Its ContentRobert highlights a new piece on AI sourcing:
AI doesn't create from nothing
It builds on existing human work
The real leverage is still in original thinking and creation
Other links: Mel Robbins with Seth Godin
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
-
This week, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose dig into fascinating new research from Anthropic that reveals how large language models are already capable of executing many traditional marketing tasks. The conversation quickly turns into a deeper question. Is the real disruption AI itself, or the fact that many leaders in mid-size and enterprise organizations never truly valued marketing in the first place? If machines can now execute the tactics, what happens to marketing teams that were already fighting for credibility inside their organizations?
The discussion explores what the research means for the future of marketing roles, how AI will reshape tactical execution, and whether strategy, creativity, and trust-building become the true competitive advantages. As usual, Joe and Robert have plenty of opinions and a few laughs along the way.
In other news, Meta makes another big move by acquiring Moltbook. Is this a calculated, low-risk gamble from the tech giant, or does the move signal growing pressure in the AI platform race?
Meanwhile, LinkedIn content is increasingly appearing in responses from AI chatbots and generative search tools. Joe and Robert discuss what this shift means for marketers and content creators trying to remain visible as discovery moves away from traditional search engines.
Winners and LosersWinner #1:
Tecovas: A clever follow-up short film connected to a Super Bowl ad campaign shows how brands can extend the life of expensive tentpole advertising.Winner #2:
Rants and Raves
Coinbase launches its new "NPC Break-Free" campaign that will run during the Academy Awards, taking a bold creative swing at culture, conformity, and crypto skepticism.Robert dives into BlackRock and the fallout surrounding its private credit strategy, raising questions about risk and transparency.
Joe closes the show with a rant about a stunning operational blunder by United States national baseball team during the World Baseball Classic.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
-
It was a wild week in artificial intelligence. Joe and Robert break down a surprising stumble from OpenAI and the aggressive counter-moves coming from Anthropic. The hosts unpack what these developments signal for the broader AI landscape and why the growing concentration of power among a small number of platforms should concern marketers and creators alike. If a handful of companies ultimately control how AI works and how it distributes information, that likely tells us exactly where marketing is headed as well.
Along the way, Joe and Robert offer a few friendly suggestions to Sam Altman on how he might rethink his public communication strategy during moments of controversy and rapid change.
Next, the show shifts to a supposed social media "problem" involving the CEO of McDonald's on Instagram. Except… it wasn't really a problem at all. Joe and Robert argue the episode was actually a major brand win. The bigger lesson? Companies should stop hiding their quirky, weird, and interesting employees. Celebrating authentic personalities inside organizations may be one of the most underused marketing advantages available today.
The conversation then moves into the exploding trend of 90-second serialized dramas dominating short-form video platforms. What started as a niche format is quickly becoming a global phenomenon, reshaping storytelling and opening the door to entirely new forms of brand entertainment.
Winners and Losers
Joe highlights the creative marketing moves coming from Staples and why the brand may be onto something smart in a crowded retail environment. Robert, meanwhile, calls out what he believes was a strategic misstep from global advertising giant WPP.
Rants and Raves
Joe raves about a growing opportunity inspired by a recent article in The Wall Street Journal on the rise of subscription mail products and why creators should pay close attention to physical experiences in a digital world.
And in a rare twist, Robert offers praise for the research and insights coming from Gartner… something listeners may not have expected.
As always, Joe and Robert break down what it all means for marketers trying to build sustainable media brands in a world increasingly shaped by platforms, AI, and shifting audience behavior.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
-
This week, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose tackle one of the boldest statements in recent marketing memory. The CEO of Unilever says big brand advertising is dead. Is he right? Or is this a Trojan horse for something much bigger?
Big Brand Advertising: Dead or Disguised?When the head of one of the largest consumer goods companies in the world questions traditional brand advertising, it's not a throwaway comment. Joe and Robert unpack what's really happening:
Are we witnessing the collapse of mass brand-building?
Or is this a pivot toward creator-led, performance-driven, and retail media strategies?
Is "brand is dead" just cover for short-term earnings pressure?
Facebook's Creator Monetization ShiftNext, the hosts examine Facebook and its evolving creator monetization programs.
Here's the surprising part: most of the creators earning real money aren't in the U.S. or Europe.
What does that signal?
Is Facebook optimizing for lower-cost content markets?
Is this about global growth or cheaper engagement?
Does this open the door to more synthetic and AI-generated content?
Joe and Robert debate what this means for marketers investing in creator partnerships and for Western creators assuming they're at the center of platform economics.
AI Actors, Hollywood, and Trademarking YourselfA fascinating conversation between Matthew McConaughey and Timothée Chalamet sparks a larger discussion: what happens when AI enters the craft of acting?
Will we eventually see:
Best AI Actor?
Best Synthetic Film?
Or entirely new creative categories?
Joe raises a bigger issue for marketers and creators: should you trademark your name, image, and likeness?
As AI-generated replicas improve, protecting your identity may become a business necessity rather than a vanity move.
Winners and Losers Winner: The Creator Betting on Landline PhonesJoe highlights a surprising trend: a creator sells old-school landline phones.
Marketing Loser: U.S. Men's HockeyRobert explains why the United States men's national ice hockey team earns this week's marketing "L." Brand positioning, expectations, and execution all come under scrutiny.
Rants, Raves, and Heated DebateRobert dives deep into Anthropic and its recent moves around AI safety. Is the company quietly shifting away from its core safety mission?
Then things get heated.
Joe and Robert spar over an article by Matt Shumer on the future of AI. Is exponential acceleration inevitable? Are we underestimating the timeline? Or overhyping the disruption?
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
-
Companies like Meta and other social platforms are facing serious scrutiny over the effects of social media on mental health, teens, misinformation, and society at large. Lawmakers are circling. Hearings are happening. Headlines are dramatic.
But is this real regulatory momentum… or political theater?
Joe and Robert debate:
Whether meaningful regulation is actually possible
What history tells us about tech antitrust moments
And what marketers should prepare for if something does change
Are we watching the beginning of a structural shift, or just another PR cycle?
OpenAI Buys OpenClawOpenAI makes another strategic move, acquiring OpenClaw.
Smart vertical integration or signs of pressure?
Joe and Robert explore:
What this signals about OpenAI's long-term positioning
If this move strengthens the moat or exposes vulnerability
Desperate land grab or calculated chess move?
Apple Moves into Video. Too Late?Apple continues expanding its footprint in video podcasts and entertainment. But in a world dominated by established streaming giants and creator-driven platforms, is Apple behind?
The discussion covers:
Apple's historical pattern of entering late and winning anyway
Whether hardware advantage still matters
If brand trust gives Apple an edge in a saturated market
What this means for content creators and marketers
Is Apple playing the long game… or missing the moment?
Marketing Winners and Losers WinnersJoe shares a win from Surfside and what "winning" looks like in Key West. Sometimes the lesson isn't scale. It's positioning, timing, and owning a moment.
LosersRobert discusses the Ring backlash and how they just didn't read the room.
Rants and Raves Robert's RantThe evolving role of the AI creator. Is the curator the new role?
Joe's RaveDifferentiation is not louder messaging. It's clearer identity. In a world drowning in synthetic sameness, the brands and creators who stand for something specific will win.
As always, Joe and Robert cut through the noise so you can focus on what matters.
Subscribe. Share. And don't miss this one.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
-
This week, Joe and Robert break down one of the boldest marketing decisions the NFL has made in years and why it continues to pay off.
NFL + Bad Bunny: A Strategic WinThe NFL's move to spotlight Bad Bunny wasn't just a halftime performance decision. It was a strategic signal about where the league is headed as it expands globally and looks to connect with younger, more diverse audiences.
Joe and Robert explore whether this marks a broader repositioning of the NFL brand and what marketers can learn from a legacy organization willing to evolve in public. This isn't about one performance. It's about how institutions modernize without losing their core.
Super Bowl Ad Winners & LosersThe guys break down the biggest hits and misses from this year's Super Bowl ad lineup.
Which brands actually created impact?
Who played it too safe?
Did AI-driven ads live up to the hype or feel automated and forgettable?Some advertisers made bold cultural bets. Others blended into the background.
Spotify's Big Earnings and the Hidden OpportunitySpotify's latest earnings report might signal something bigger than a financial rebound. Joe sees a potential opportunity for creators and marketers who understand the long-term value of owned audio audiences.
Is podcasting and direct subscription audio still undervalued?
Are marketers overlooking one of the most durable attention platforms available today?If you care about building direct audience leverage, this segment matters.
Winners and LosersJoe's Winner: Markiplier's Iron Lung
Markiplier's direct-to-theaters success with Iron Lung shows what creator-led distribution can look like without traditional Hollywood gatekeepers. Is this a preview of the next decade of media?Robert's Loser: AI Ads at the Super Bowl
Rants and Raves
AI promised scale and personalization. On the biggest stage in advertising, many of those spots felt soulless and generic. Scale without taste is not a strategy.Joe's Rant: TikTok Privacy
Are creators and brands ignoring long-term privacy and platform risk for short-term reach?Robert's Commentary: The Overblown SaaS Apocalypse
Big Takeaway
Robert pushes back on the constant doom-and-gloom narrative around SaaS and tech. Is the so-called apocalypse real, or just another overreaction cycle?Legacy institutions are adapting. Creators are bypassing gatekeepers. Platforms are redefining monetization.
The question for marketers is simple: Are you reacting to change, or positioning yourself to benefit from it?
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
-
It's the episode you've been waiting for.
Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose bring together their favorite rants and raves in one fast-moving supercut that tackles the biggest questions facing marketers and creators right now.
Is print really making a comeback, or are we just nostalgic for a slower, more thoughtful era of media? Why does everyone seem so certain in a world that's becoming more complex by the day? And is "thoughtful marketing" finally ready for its return after years of hacks, shortcuts, and algorithm chasing?
The guys also dig into a question every content team should be asking: Is content actually broken, or is the real problem your org chart?
Along the way, Joe and Robert explore what might be the next great opportunity for marketers and content entrepreneurs who are willing to zig while everyone else zags.
Big ideas. Sharp opinions. A few laughs. And plenty to argue about on your next walk or commute.
You don't want to miss this one.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
-
In this special episode, Joe and Robert answer all the questions from the This Old Marketing audience.
How do backlink strategies (SEO) and citations (AEO) work together, and what unified content strategy can help brands earn both?
In the age of GEO, how should membership organizations decide what content to keep free versus behind a paywall, especially when balancing search visibility with exclusive expert value?
As AI takes over more execution, will small businesses and solopreneurs still need and pay for human marketing strategy, and how can independent consultants differentiate and stay relevant in an AI-first world?
Did the Netflix series about the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders measurably impact the team's brand or game viewership, and is it a model for how entertainment content can elevate a sports franchise's marketing?
Should marketers clearly separate "content marketing" (audience-building) from "sales enablement content" (purchase support), and does lumping them together lead to bad strategy and wrong KPIs?
If you were starting from zero today, with AI flooding every channel, what would you build first to create real audience trust and attention over the next five years, and what would you completely ignore that most marketers are still chasing?
Thanks to all of you for your questions and support.
Subscribe and Follow:
Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.-------
This week's sponsor:
Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot.
Unless you use HubSpot.
Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts. All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more.Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better.
-------
Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/
Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/
Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/.Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/
Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/-------
This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork
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