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Raising grounded, thoughtful kids in today’s chaotic world is no small task.
In this episode, Emily talks with award-winning journalist and author Melinda Wenner Moyer about her new book, Hello, Cruel World: Science-Based Strategies for Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times.
Melinda shares practical, research-based tools to help parents guide their children through media influence, bias, and the challenges of social media and technology.
It’s a powerful conversation filled with real-world strategies for raising compassionate, critical-thinking kids who can thrive, even when the world feels upside down.
Listen and Learn:
How can parents raise compassionate, resilient kids when the world feels increasingly chaotic and uncertain?
Understanding how bias and polarization form in kids is key to raising thoughtful, inclusive humans
Why kids develop biased thinking and how family conversations can counter social media's influence
How listening to your kids can reduce extremism, build empathy, and shape a better future
Ways to talk with your kid about bias and hate language, even if they don't open up easily
The importance of getting your kids to team up with diverse friends on projects to help them see past biases
Teaching kids media literacy helps them think critically
Research often misrepresents social media harm, but parent-child bonds shape kids’ real tech experience
Managing kids’ tech means by balancing connection, autonomy, and open talks, not just strict rules
Melinda’s hope for parents embracing open talks and respect, shaping a stronger, kinder generation
Resources:
Hello Cruel World!: Science-Based Strategies for Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593719367
Melinda’s website: https://www.melindawennermoyer.com/
Melinda’s Substack: https://melindawmoyer.substack.com/
Connect with Melinda on social media:
https://www.instagram.com/melindawmoyer/?hl=en
https://www.facebook.com/melindawennermoyer/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/melindawennermoyer
Emily’s Substack article about Netflix’s Adolescence: https://emilyedlynn.substack.com/p/the-two-problems-with-netflixs-adolescence?r=8nx18
About Melinda Wenner Moyer
Melinda Wenner Moyer is an award-winning journalist whose work explores the intersection of science and everyday life. She’s known for her deep dives into subjects that have both scientific and societal implications, addressing issues that are relevant to parents, families, and the general public. Melinda is a contributing editor at Scientific American magazine and a regular contributor and former columnist at The New York Times. Her first book, How To Raise Kids Who Aren’t Assholes, was published in July 2021 and won a gold medal in the 2022 Living Now Book Awards. Her second book, Hello Cruel World!: Science-Based Strategies for Raising Terrific Kids in Terrifying Times, will be published on May 27, 2025. She lives in New York's Hudson Valley.
Related Episodes:
390. Raising Empowered Girls in a Sexist World with Jo-Ann Finkelstein
381. Reimagining Boyhood with Ruth Whippman
382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health
377. How to Raise a Citizen with Lindsey Cormack
317. Growing Up in Public with Devorah Heitner
256. Social Justice Parenting with Traci Baxley
214. How to Raise Kids Who Aren’t Jerks with Melinda Wenner Moyer
398. Finding Joy in Your Relationship with Money with Elizabeth Husserl
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What if the ability to negotiate with a hostage-taker was also a skill that could improve relationships in everyday life?
Gary Noesner, who is a former FBI chief negotiator and author of 'Stalling for Time,' which deep dives into his experiences and the lessons he's learned about human nature and effective communication over his 30-year career, joins Yael for this episode.
You’ll hear how patience, empathy, and active listening aren't just crisis tools; they're essential for everyday connection too.
Gary also reflects on the evolution of negotiation tactics, the significance of emotional control, and the value of building genuine relationships.
Listen and Learn:
How active listening transformed hostage negotiation, from trading demands to truly hearing the pain beneath
Why most hostage-takers aren’t criminals but people in crisis, and how listening changes everything
How sitting with uncertainty and leading with empathy defuses crises more than force ever could
Why slowing down negotiations and investing in human understanding can save lives in high-stakes crises
Understanding even the most difficult people can defuse conflict and open the door to real influence
The Waco Siege and how it exposed a clash of FBI strategies and what it taught us about negotiation, power, and restraint
What strategies do elite negotiators use to maintain composure in high-pressure situations and handle their emotions without assuming undue responsibility?
How humility, likability, and relationship-building can defuse conflict at home, work, or in crisis
Resources:
Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator
https://garynoesner.com/
Yael’s newsletter post about connecting like a hostage negotiator
Kate Murphy’s book with a profile of Gary: Why Won’t You Listen to Me?
Jamie Holmes’ book with a profile of Gary: Nonsense
Connect with Gary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-noesner-1a2480b
Connect with Gary on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stalling-for-Time/148979708465038
Connect with Gary on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/garynoesner/?hl=en
About Gary Noesner:
Gary Noesner retired from the FBI in 2003 following a 30-year career as an investigator, instructor, and negotiator. A significant focus of his career was directed toward investigating Middle East hijackings in which American citizens were victimized. In addition, he was an FBI hostage negotiator for 23 years of his career, retiring as the Chief of the FBI’s Crisis Negotiation Unit, Critical Incident Response Group, the first person to hold that position. In that capacity, he was heavily involved in numerous crisis incidents covering prison riots, right-wing militia standoffs, religious zealot sieges, terrorist embassy takeovers, airplane hijackings, and over 120 overseas kidnapping cases involving American citizens.
He has written a book about his FBI negotiation career, which was published by Penguin Random House in 2010, entitled Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator. The book is being used in part as the basis for a six-part mini-series on Waco that will air on the Paramount Network on January 24, 2018.
Related Episodes:
255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance
276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
392. Outraged with Kurt Gray
403. Conflict Resilience with Bob Bordone and Joel Salinas
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Today’s episode is one you’re really going to want to lean into because Michael is talking all about radical listening with Robert V. Biswas-Diener.
If you’ve ever felt like traditional ‘active listening’ just doesn’t cut it, this conversation is going to open your ears and your mind in a whole new way.
They chat about key ideas from Robert and his coauthor Christian Van Nieuwerburgh's book, Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection, such as why traditional active listening often falls short and what it means to really show up for someone through listening with intention, how to adapt your listening style depending on the situation, how culture can shape communication, and why staying curious might be one of the most powerful tools in your toolbox.
This conversation is for anyone who wants to have deeper, more meaningful conversations with friends, coworkers, or anyone you care about!
Listen and Learn:
Why does radical listening go beyond traditional active listening, and how does focusing on intention transform the way we pay attention in conversations?
How does your listening intention, whether to validate, learn, or fix, shape what specific cues and details you focus on during a conversation?
How can well-intentioned behaviors like comparing, competing, or offering advice become obstacles to effective listening and connection?
The importance of aligning your listening intention with the speaker's intention to create a true connection in a conversation
How you can use internal and external skills, like calming your mind or staying present, to become a better listener
Noticing different types of silence to help you understand what's really happening in a conversation
Understanding cultural differences, and letting go of the “awkward pause” to help you listen more openly
How you can accept someone’s perspective without agreeing with it, and still create a more respectful and open conversation
Why the way you ask questions matters, and why you want to ask ones that help the other person open up, not just satisfy your own curiosity
How can interjecting, when done thoughtfully, show deep engagement in a conversation without being rude?
Resources:
Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781523007196 Robert's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-biswas-diener-a860289/
Robert’s websites https://robertdiener.com/ and https://positiveacorn.com/
Christian’s website: https://coachonamotorcycle.com/
Parking Cars in America, 1910-1945: A History
https://relationalriffs.substack.com/p/why-listening-is-a-superpower
https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/are-you-listening/
About Robert Biswas-Diener:
Dr. Robert Biswas-Diener is a researcher, author, and consultant with 75 peer-reviewed academic articles, and he has over 27,000 citations.
His previous books include The Upside Of Your Dark Side (New York Times bestseller, 2014) and the 2007 prose award winner, Happiness.
He has presented keynotes to Lululemon, Deloitte, Humana, AARP, The World Bank, and others.
In 2024, Thinkers50 named Robert one of the “50 most influential executive coaches in the world”.
He lives in Portland, Oregon, enjoying drawing and rock climbing.
Related Episodes:
393. Supercommunicators with Charles Duhigg
353. Ask Great Questions with Jeff Wetzler
360. The Laws of Connection with David Robson
191. Conversations that Connect with AJ Harbinger
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Leadership so often comes with the pressure to appear strong, composed, and endlessly capable, but that version of leadership is no longer serving us. In this episode, Debbie sits down with Patricia Grabarek and Katina Sawyer, co-authors of Leading for Wellness, for a meaningful conversation about redefining leadership through the lens of wellness, authenticity, and vulnerability.
They share why it’s time to move beyond outdated ideals of stoicism and perfection and how embracing a more human-centered approach, through genuine connection, clear boundaries, and flexible team cultures, can lead to healthier, more productive workplaces. With real-life examples and research-backed insights, Patricia and Katina offer practical strategies leaders can use to show up more fully, support their teams more deeply, and lead with intention and care.
Listen and Learn:
How toxic workplaces don’t just harm employees, they drain communities, profits, and society as a whole
How small acts of support from “generator” leaders can spark workplace wellness, even in hard times
Can embracing authenticity over outdated leadership norms help teams connect, grow, and stay human?
Why showing vulnerability and owning mistakes builds trust, safety, and real connection in leadership
Building emotionally honest, flexible team cultures without slipping into toxic positivity
How humane leaders bend rigid rules and protect their teams without crossing ethical lines
The ways leaders break toxic overwork cycles and build teams that thrive without being always on
Resources:
Leading for Wellness: How to Create a Team Culture Where Everyone Thrives: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781394292011Connect with Patricia Grabarek and Katina Sawyer on social media:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/patriciagrabarek/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/katina-sawyer-ph-d/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/workrbeeing/
https://www.instagram.com/workrbeeing/
https://www.instagram.com/patriciagrabarek/
About Patricia Grabarek and Katina Sawyer:
Patricia Grabarek and Katina Sawyer are co-founders of Workr Beeing, and coauthor of Leading for Wellness: How to Create a Team Culture Where Everyone Thrives.
Patricia Grabarek, Ph.D., is a seasoned industrial and organizational psychologist specializing in workplace wellness, organizational culture, employee engagement, diversity and inclusion, and leadership development. With a background in both consulting and internal roles, Dr. Grabarek has led people analytics and talent management initiatives for more than 60 organizations across various industries. Her work focuses on research-based strategies to improve well-being, retention, performance, and diversity efforts. She holds a Ph.D. and MS in industrial/organizational psychology from Penn State and a B.A. in Psychology from UCLA.
Katina Sawyer, Ph.D., is an industrial and organizational psychologist and an Associate Professor of Management and Organizations at the University of Arizona’s Eller College of Management. A leading expert in work-life balance, leadership, positive workplace behaviors, and diversity, she has published more than 50 peer-reviewed studies, book chapters, and articles in outlets such as Harvard Business Review. She holds a B.A. in psychology from Villanova University and a dual Ph.D. and M.S. in industrial and organizational psychology and women’s studies from Penn State.
Related episodes:
338. ACT for Burnout with Debbie!
265. The Power of Emotions at Work with Karla McLaren
299. Leadership and the Changing Workplace with Chris Shipley
378. The Happy High Achiever with Mary Anderson
357. Is Your Work Worth It? How to Think About Meaningful Work with Jennifer Tosti-Kharas and Christopher Wong Michaelson
290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston
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Constantly battling that harsh inner voice that tells you you're not enough, that you’ll never measure up?
It can feel like this voice is always lurking, trying to undermine your confidence and making it so much harder to move forward. The good news is that you can change your internal narrative.
For this episode, Jill welcomes Shawn Costello Woolley and Holly Yates, coauthors of The Inner Critic Workbook, a fantastic resource that helps you transform your inner critic into a supportive, empowering voice.
You’ll understand how shame fuels negative self-talk, but more importantly, how self-compassion, mindfulness, and connecting with shared humanity can help you to quiet your critic and start building a kinder, more confident inner dialogue.
Listen and Learn:
How your inner critic often sabotages your path toward what matters to you most
Why your inner critic exists, how it hijacks your progress, and the ways it holds you back in life
Is your inner critic pushing you to avoid discomfort, keeping you from the meaningful things you crave?
Why self-compassion isn’t about letting yourself off the hook
Why attempting to replace your inner critic with positivity frequently fails, and what works instead
When your inner critic speaks, does it close doors or point you in the direction of values you care about?
Using the CARE method for growth to turn your inner critic into a compassionate coach
How shame isolates you, but sharing struggles helps you connect and turns our inner critic into a coach
Transforming self-criticism into compassion by speaking to yourself the way you would to a friend
Stepping back from your thoughts and reacting intentionally, not just based on emotional interpretations
How observing your thoughts and actions in the present moment can help clarify your values and guide your choices
Resources:
The Inner Critic Workbook: Self-Compassion and Mindfulness Skills to Reduce Feelings of Shame, Build Self-Worth, and Improve Your Life and Relationships: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781648484292
Shawn’s website: https://www.drshawnwhooley.com/
More about Holly on: https://www.newharbinger.com/author/holly-yates/
Connect with Shawn and Holly on social media:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/holly-yates-8a8055321
https://www.instagram.com/holly.yates.healing/
https://www.instagram.com/shawncostello19/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-costello-whooley-psyd-b181294
Related Episodes:
385. Oliver Burkeman on Embracing Your Limitations
346. Self-compassion Daily Journal with Diana Hill
341. Self-Forgiveness with Grant Dewar
301. Seven Daily ACT Practices for Living Fully with Diana Hill and Debbie Sorensen
201. Fierce Compassion with Kristin Neff
147. Extending Compassion with Janina Scarlet and Sara Schairer
145. Caring, Compassion, and Cooperation with Paul Gilbert
75. Mindful Self-Compassion with Christopher Germer
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You’ve tried reasoning with your kids, setting boundaries, and even taking away privileges, but the conflict just keeps bubbling up. When nothing seems to calm the chaos, where can you turn as a parent who’s simply worn out and craving peace in your home?
For this conversation, Emily brings in guest Dr. Jonathan Caspi, an internationally recognized sibling expert and professor at Montclair State University. Jonathan offers insights from his book, Raising Loving Siblings, on the parental role in sibling conflict, the importance of sibling closeness, and strategies to manage and improve sibling relationships.
Tune in if you are interested in learning about parental involvement and guidance for cultivating positive sibling relationships and reducing conflict.
Listen and Learn:
Why well-meaning parents may unknowingly fuel sibling rivalry and what to do differently instead
Does parental conflict fuel sibling rivalry?
Why recognizing harmful sibling behavior matters
How sibling bullying hides in plain sight through avoidance, fear, and subtle signs parents often miss
Why everyday sibling spats are normal, but constant conflict may signal deeper family dynamics at play
Can frequent sibling fights sabotage lifelong bonds?
Why perceived favoritism can fuel sibling conflict, why avoiding favoritism talk may actually hurt family dynamics, and how to handle it better
How to manage sibling bickering and aggression with strategies that foster better behavior and connection
How validating kids' emotions and avoiding the 'victim vs. aggressor' mindset can help resolve sibling conflicts
How parents' own childhood experiences can shape their approach to sibling relationships
Resources:
● Jonathan's book Raising Loving Siblings: How to Stop the Fighting and Help Your Kids Connect
● Jonathan’s websites:
https://siblingexpert.com/author/caspij/
http://www.theeasyfamily.com/
● Connect with Jonathan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/siblingexpert/
About Jonathan Caspi
Jonathan Caspi, PhD, MSW, is Professor of Family Science and Human Development at Montclair State University in New Jersey. Dr. Caspi is an internationally recognized sibling expert. In addition to researching, writing, and teaching about families and siblings, he has been a family therapist for over 30 years and has a private practice in New Jersey.
Related Episodes:
397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Cordova
386. Parents Are Stressed: What Do We Do About It? With Emily, Debbie, and Yael
373. How to Stop Freaking Out with Carla Naumburg
369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
241. Emotion Coaching Skills for Families with Mindy Solomon
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What if your next disagreement could actually bring you closer to someone instead of driving you apart?
In this episode, we’re diving into Conflict Resilience: Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving Up or Giving In with co-authors Bob Bordone, a conflict resolution expert from Harvard, and Joe Salinas, a behavioral neurologist and founder of Isaac Health.
Together with Yael, they have a down-to-earth conversation about what it really takes to stay present in conflict and why that matters for your relationships and your brain.
You’ll hear personal stories, surprising research, and powerful insights on why it’s so important to get comfortable with discomfort, listen with an open heart, and know when (and how) to engage in tough conversations.
Listen and Learn:
What happens when a conflict avoider and a conflict expert team up to explore how tension builds connection?
Why do two people experience the same conflict so differently, and how does your brain shape that story?
Is conflict really worse today, or have we just lost the resilience to stay in the heat and handle it?
Why avoiding conflict rewires your brain to fear it and building resilience means facing the heat, slowly.
How sharing real stories across deep divides can reshape how we see “the other” and actually spark true change.
Can deeper listening to those we disagree with reshape our brains, our beliefs, and maybe even our world?
Why listening grows from curiosity to open space for real connection
Knowing when to engage or exit conflict starts with curiosity and protects both peace and power
Resources:
Conflict Resilience: Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving Up or Giving In: http://www.conflictresiliencebook.com
Joel’s website: https://joelsalinasmd.com/
Bob’s website: https://www.bobbordone.com/about-me#:~:text=My%20Story,served%20as%20the%20Thaddeus%20R
Yael’s newsletter interview with the authors of You’re Not as Crazy as I Thought (But You’re Still Wrong)—on the topic of moving from “me versus you” to “us versus the problem”
Additional Books Referenced in the Episode
Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781250338143
The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780393354775
Rising Out of Hatred: The Awakening of a Former White Nationalist: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780525434955
The Klansman's Son: My Journey from White Nationalism to Antiracism: A Memoir: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781419764783
You're Not as Crazy as I Thought (But You're Still Wrong): https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781612344614
About Bob Bordone:
Robert C. Bordone is a Senior Fellow at Harvard Law School, founder and former director of the Harvard Negotiation and Mediation Clinical Program, former Thaddeus R. Beal Clinical Professor of Law at Harvard Law School, and founder of The Cambridge Negotiation Institute. He is co-author of Designing Systems and Processes for Managing Disputes, and co-editor of The Handbook of Dispute Resolution. Bordone was ranked among 2025’s World’s Top 30 Negotiation Professionals by Global Gurus.
About Joel Salinas:
Joel Salinas, M.D. is a behavioral neurologist, scientist, and Clinical Associate Professor of Neurology at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine, founder and Chief Medical Officer at Isaac Health, and former Harvard Medical School faculty. He is the author of Mirror Touch: A Memoir of Synesthesia and the Secret Life of the Brain.
Related Episodes:
51. The Psychology of Political Division with Yael and Debbie
392. Outraged with Kurt Gray
397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Còrdova
276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
371. Uniting Toward a Better Future with Diana McLain Smith
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Breaking the cycle of addiction is both possible and challenging, but even just rethinking your relationship with it can be a powerful first step toward change.
Offering an alternative to strict abstinence models is Kristin Dempsey, the author of The Harm Reduction Workbook for Addiction, who invites you to reconsider your approach to addiction, offering a tangible, compassionate, and science-backed method of recovery known as harm reduction.
Through reflective listening, motivational interviewing, curiosity, and "change talk," Kristin talks to Michael about just a few of these helpful strategies for reassessing your relationship with addictive substances (and even other areas of your life) and navigating change in a way that feels both supportive and sustainable.
Listen and Learn:
How harm reduction and motivational interviewing reshape substance use treatment with compassion
What changes when someone explores behavior on their own with a workbook versus in live conversation?
How can Kristin’s workbook also reveal insights about everyday habits and hidden patterns?
Why do we resist advice, even when we ask for it, and how can choice unlock real change?
How “change talk” in motivational interviewing helps people move from intention to action
Using reflective listening to improve your conversations and build stronger, more meaningful connections
Can curiosity, not problem-solving, unlock deeper conversations and personal growth?
Why you should support someone struggling with substance use by building a relationship first, not by jumping to advice
Resources:
The Harm Reduction Workbook for Addiction: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781648481901
Kristen’s social media links:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-dempsey-ed-d-lpcc-lmft-322812a
Bluesky: @kristind-lmft-lpcc.bsky.social
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100057356474362.
For more on Kristen’s webinars and podcasts, in addition to information about her practice, see here: https://www.kristindempseycounseling.com/
Order The Harm Reduction Workbook and find free worksheets: https://www.newharbinger.com/9781648481901/the-harm-reduction-workbook-for-addiction/
Yael’s newsletter on listening
About Kristin Dempsey
Kristin L. Dempsey, EdD, LMFT, LPCC, is a psychotherapist, counselor educator, and trainer. For thirty years, she has supported individuals with exploring their own relationships to substances. She is a member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT) and has been privileged to provide motivational interviewing (MI) training to thousands of people in behavioral health, primary care, public health, school, corrections, and human services organizations.
Related Episodes
66. Helping People Change Using Motivational Interviewing With Nadine Mastroleo
286. Not Drinking Tonight with Amanda White
101. The Complete Family Guide to Addiction with Thomas Harrison and Hillary Connery
202. The Addiction Inoculation with Jess Lahey
135. Power of Empathy and Motivational Interviewing with Stephen Rollnick
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Success isn’t just about how hard you work. It’s also about who’s advocating for you even when you’re not in the room.
In this episode, Debbie talks with Rosalind Chow, an associate professor at Carnegie Mellon University, about her new book, The Doors You Can Open A New Way to Network, Build Trust, and Use Your Influence to Create a More Inclusive Workplace.
They get into the real difference between mentorship and sponsorship, why both matter, and how having the right sponsor can completely change the game for your career.
Rosalind shares her perspective on the challenges of systemic racism and inclusion and how being intentional about sponsorship can actually create real opportunities for people who need them.
Concluding the interview, Debbie and Yael give their take on what it means to build relationships that open doors, not just for ourselves but for others, too.
Listen and Learn:
When systemic solutions fade, what can individuals do?
How sponsorship, not mentorship, breaks barriers for marginalized professionals
How power dynamics in mentorship can shape careers and why sponsorship may be the real key to success
Rethinking networking and how shifting from power moves to collective problem-solving can build real influence
Sponsorship vs. mentorship: why trust flows differently, and why sponsors take the biggest career risks
Can sponsorship fight bias, or does it reinforce it?
How Kristin became the unlikely leader of a program for Black professionals and won over skeptics
How sponsoring a colleague led Kristin to a Harvard Business Review article and a career boost
Resources:
Rosalind’s website: https://www.rosalindchow.com/
The Doors You Can Open: A New Way to Network, Build Trust, and Use Your Influence to Create a More Inclusive Workplace: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781541702752
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosalind-chow-6b25541b0/
About Rosalind Chow
Rosalind Chow is an Associate Professor of Organizational Behavior and Theory at Carnegie Mellon University, where she studies the power of social hierarchy and its impact on diversity and inclusion efforts within organizations. She uses her research expertise to direct executive leadership programs aimed at accelerating participants' careers, with a particular focus on the advancement of women and members of marginalized groups. Her forthcoming book, The Doors You Can Open (PublicAffairs, April 8, 2025), introduces the concept of sponsorship as a way we can use our social connections to change the relationships we have with other people and the relationships that other people have with one another in the service of creating greater communal good.
Related Episodes:
299. Leadership and the Changing Workplace with Chris Shipley
290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston
185. Good Guys: Allies in the Workplace with Brad Johnson and David Smith
389. Generational Differences in the Workplace with Michelle Quist Ryder
357. Is Your Work Worth It? How to Think About Meaningful Work with Jennifer Tosti-Kharas and Christopher Wong Michaelson
347. Job Changes & Career Pivots with Paula Brand
276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
265. The Power of Emotions at Work with Karla McLaren
107. Playing Big with Tara Mohr
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Off-the-clockers, it's time to celebrate because Psychologists Off The Clock just hit 400 episodes! 🎉 For this special milestone episode, the cohosts wanted to pull back the curtain on the podcast: why we do it, how it’s changed our lives, behind-the-scenes blunders, keeping the podcast financially afloat, and the incredible friendships we’ve built along the way.
You all sent in questions for the team, and we’re answering them! Wondering how we choose guests or which co-host gets to interview which guest? We’re revealing it all. And as an extra treat, our podcast production manager, Jai, will be joining us to chat about editing, hilarious bloopers, memorable lessons and episodes, and give you a peek at what really happens in post-production.
And to close out the episode, we’re giving a huge shoutout to some of our amazing Patreon supporters who are helping us deliver the podcast ad-free and making it possible for us to continue bringing you great science-backed psychology content!
So please grab your favorite drink, hit play, and come celebrate with us!
Resources:
Cohost Books:
ACT Daily Journal by Debbie Sorensen: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781684037377
Autonomy-Supportive Parenting by Emily Edlynn: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781641709767
In Your Feels by Emily Edlynn: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781950785933
Imposter No More by Jill Stoddard: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781538724798
ACT for Burnout by Debbie Sorensen: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781839975370
Join our Patreon and enjoy our episode ad-free: https://www.patreon.com/offtheclockpsych
POTC episodes referenced in this episode:
368. Get Better at Anything with Scott Young
315. Hot & Bothered: Menopause with Jancee Dunn
176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky
382. The Anxious Generation? The Conversation We Should Be Having About Kids, Technology, and Mental Health
393. Supercommunicators with Charles Duhigg
348. Sustainable Exercise with Michelle Segar
396. Public Speaking and TED Talks with Alina Nikolaou
Join our community on social media:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/offtheclockpsych/
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/offtheclockpsych
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/offtheclockpsych/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychologistsOfftheClock
Get in contact with our Podcast Production Manager, Jai: jswpodcastassistant.com
Related Episodes:
1. Taking a Leap Into Something Meaningful
100. Celebrating 100 Episodes
300. Celebrating 300 Episodes with Us
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Balancing warmth with assertiveness can feel like an impossible juggling act—too soft, and you're overlooked; too strong, and you're “too much.”
Alison Fragale's book, Likable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve, offers practical, research-backed strategies to help women excel at work and in life.
In this episode, you'll get to understand the science of power and status, self-promotion without the cringe, and overcoming gender biases with authenticity and confidence. We also include real-world challenges, making this discussion both insightful and refreshingly relatable.
Listen and Learn:
How power controls resources, but status shapes influence and why respect is the key to real authority
How women can play smart within unfair rules to spark real change
The science behind being a likable badass
Navigating the balance between assertiveness and warmth and finding your authentic style
Overcoming biases in social and professional settings
How to confidently share your wins without feeling boastful, while staying warm and relatable
Resources:
Alison’s Book: Likable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve
Alison’s Website: alisonfragale.com
Connect with Alison on:
LinkedIn
Instagram
TikTok
Alison’s Substack: The Upper Hand with Alison Fragale
Alison’s Media Page: https://alisonfragale.com/media-research/
Alison’s Hidden Brain episode: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/how-to-win-people-over/
My WorkLife with Adam Grant episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-secret-to-success-isnt-power-its-status/id1346314086?i=1000668204498
About Alison Fragale
Alison Fragale is the Mary Farley Ames Lee Distinguished Scholar of Organizational Behavior at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill Kenan-Flagler Business School. As a research psychologist, award-winning professor, international keynote speaker, and author, she is on a mission to help others — especially women — use behavioral science to work and live better. Her scholarship has been published in the most prestigious academic journals in her field and featured in prominent media outlets such as The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Financial Times, Boston Globe, and Inc. Alison is the author of the national bestseller, LIKEABLE BADASS: How Women Get the Success They Deserve. She lives in Chicago with her husband and three children, who are all named after professional athletes.
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49. Empowering Women with Robyn Walser
107. Playing Big with Tara Mohr
121. Be Mighty: An Episode for Stressed Out, Worried Women with Jill Stoddard
163. The Likeability Trap with Alicia Menendez
176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky
185. Good Guys: Allies in the Workplace with Brad Johnson and David Smith
290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston
321. Imposter No More with Jill Stoddard
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Money impacts us all, whether it brings joy, stress, or confusion.
Chatting with Elizabeth Husserl, author of The Power of Enough and a financial advisor with a background in economics, spirituality, and psychology, we hear about finding joy in our relationship with money.
You'll learn about breaking free from the abundance-scarcity cycle and gain practical tools like the wealth mandala to help reshape your money mindset.
Elizabeth also teaches us how open communication can create healthier financial dynamics in families. Tune in for a fresh perspective on money as a tool for fulfillment and well-being!
Listen and Learn:
Redefining money as a social technology to change our relationship with wealth and well-being
How our relationship with money shapes our sense of wealth—and why capitalism gets it so wrong
How our bodies are wired for constant seeking, the tension of abundance vs. scarcity, and the shift to true fulfillment
Are you unknowingly using money to avoid deeper needs?
Breaking free from a scarcity mindset and finding the balance between spending, saving, and true fulfillment
How to find true satisfaction with money by discovering what truly nourishes your life
Ways to manage money intentionally by aligning resources with your most important needs
Breaking the taboo around money to transform your relationship to wealth and well-being
Resources:
● Books: The Power of Enough: Finding Joy in Your Relationship with Money: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781608689422
● Elizabeth's Website: http://www.elizabethhusserl.com
● Connect with Elizabeth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethhusserl
● Connect with Elizabeth on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elizabethhusserl/
About Elizabeth Husserl
Elizabeth Husserl is a registered investment advisor representative, financial advisor, highly sought-after speaker, and cofounder of Peak360 Wealth Management, a boutique wealth planning firm. She does nonprofit work throughout the Americas and has led workshops at major tech companies, including Airbnb, Unity, and Google. She lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with her husband and daughter.
Related Episodes:
365. Tightwads and Spendthrifts with Scott Rick
357. Is Your Work Worth It? How to Think About Meaningful Work with Jennifer Tosti-Kharas and Christopher Wong Michaelson
296. Money and Love with Abby Davisson
217. Redefining Rick with Shannon Hayes
182. Do More with Less: How to Stretch in Work and Life with Scott Sonenshein
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What is the recipe for developing deeper, more intimate relationships?
Breaking this all down in his new book, The Mindful Path to Intimacy, is couples therapist Dr. James Cordova, who talks to Yael about how true intimacy happens when vulnerability is met with warmth and acceptance and feeling safe being your real self with someone.
You’ll hear some eye-opening research, including his “relationship checkup” method and how marriage therapy has evolved to focus on both behavior and acceptance.
If you are looking for ways to strengthen your relationship emotionally and physically—such as staying mindful, paying attention to one another, sexual intimacy, and making check-ins a regular habit—James has some extremely practical suggestions for you!
Listen and Learn:
The true meaning of intimacy
Balancing change and acceptance in relationships
How can we stay open and kind when we hear something we don’t want to?
How mindfulness can transform intimacy
The power of vulnerability and compassion in the face of conflict and how understanding your partner leads to a deeper connection
Why our ancient instincts for self-protection clash with modern relationship needs
How relational flexibility can transform your relationships
How do daily hurts and unaddressed issues lead to distance in your relationship?
The role "marital checkups" play in keeping intimacy alive and preventing relationship drift
Why is sexual intimacy such a vulnerability trigger in relationships, and how can you address it?
Using the "stop, drop, and roll" practice to stay open and connected
Resources:
● Books:
The Mindful Path to Intimacy by James Cordova
Reconcilable Differences by Neil Jacobson, Andrew Christensen, and Brian Doss
● More About James:https://www.clarku.edu/faculty/profiles/james-cordova/
● Connect with James on Social Media
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-cordova-1b803316a
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/DrJamesCordova/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/jamesvcordova/
About James Cordova:
Dr. James Córdova is a professor at Clark University and a practicing couples therapist. Dr. Córdova’s work strives to better understand the processes that affect marital/couples health and deterioration, particularly those processes that promote greater relationship, mental and physical health. His work helps to build empirically testable approaches to therapy that foster intimacy, acceptance, and motivation for adopting healthy relational practices. Dr. Córdova’s current projects include (1) the Relationship Checkup, a relationship health checkup designed to help partners maintain healthy relationships for a lifetime, (2) observing the process of intimacy development in couples’ interactions, and (3) studying the role of emotional skillfulness in relationship health. He has a few terrific books including The Story of Mu, The Marital Check-Up, and his brand new book, The Mindful Path to Intimacy: Cultivating a Deeper Connection with Your Partner.
Related Episodes:
61. Becoming Our Best Relationship Selves By Identifying Core Values and Schemas with Avigail Lev
92. Marriage in Midlife: The Rough Patch with Daphne de Marneffe
179. How to Be an Adult in Relationships with Dave Richo
248. Let’s Talk about Sex & Intimacy with Zoe Kors
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Ever wondered what it takes to bring a TED talk to life? In this episode, Michael Herold has a conversation with Dr. Alina Nikolaou, a passionate TED event curator, who shares her insights about the exciting world of organizing TED and TEDx events.
They discuss the process of selecting speakers, the power of storytelling, and how to balance entertainment with information. Dr. Nikolaou offers valuable tips on public speaking, preparation rituals, and the experience of participating in TEDx.
You’ll also pick up tips on how to pitch a TEDx talk and ways to stay engaged with the TED community.
Listen and Learn:
The difference between TED and TEDx, and how these talks are bringing global ideas to local stages across the world
What it is really like to attend or organize a TEDx event—on stage, behind the scenes, and beyond
How are TEDx speakers chosen, coached, and prepared to deliver talks that leave a lasting impact?
How TEDx organizers curate the perfect lineup and ensure each talk flows
Even the weirdest ideas have a place at TEDx—how organizers craft the perfect lineup of talks
What happens behind the curtain before a TEDx talk?
How can speakers avoid awkwardness when transitioning from rehearsal to the stage?
What’s the secret to delivering a talk naturally—without memorizing every word like a script?
How to enliven a slide deck to captivate any audience
Tips for landing a TEDx talk
Resources:
TEDAI Vienna
TED.com
TEDx.com
Alina on LinkedIn
TEDAI on LinkedIn
Alina’s Website
Jill’s TEDx talk
Michael’s TEDx talk
Ted Talks The Official TED Guide to Public Speaking
About Dr. Alina Nikolaou
Dr. Alina Nikolaou is Director and Curator of TEDAI Vienna, the first TED event in Europe dedicated to groundbreaking ideas on Artificial Intelligence. Born to Greek and Austrian parents, Alina grew up during the financial crisis in Athens, Greece. After school, she moved to Vienna, Austria to graduate with degrees in Communication Science and Political Science. After a short and rather disenchanting journey into the world of advertising, Alina returned to academia for her doctoral research where she explored how Virtual Reality can affect how we think and behave toward complex sociopolitical issues. Her co-authored study about the influence of deepfakes on media trust and credibility won the award for Best Student Paper at the annual conference of the International Communication Science Association in 2023. Alina has held several courses at the University of Vienna, ranging from empirical research methods in the Social Sciences to Media History. In October 2023 she presented her research at AWE EU, the leading industry conference on mixed reality.
Constantly fascinated with the hypes, hopes and fears that surround new technologies, Alina has been a Curator at TEDxVienna since 2019. There she specialises on interdisciplinary ideas about tech, philosophy and power, and brings them to life in the form of TEDx Talks.
To deal with how miraculous and ridiculous the world is she constantly experiments with different artforms: A regular on Vienna’s storytelling stages, Alina is known for her criticisms on capitalism, her borderline anarchist stance and her absurdist humor. Her most recent appearance was at the Rote Bar at Volkstheater, Vienna. Alina is also the creator of the (so far unsuccessful) dadaist Bring Back Boredom movement and the far more successful event format “Poetry Society Vienna”.
Alina holds a Bakk.phil, MSc and Dr.phil. in Communication Science as well as a BA in Political Science from the University of Vienna, Austria.
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188. Unwinding Anxiety with Judson Brewer
239. Edit Your Story, Change Your Life with Lori Gottlieb
294. Yes And: Improv in Psychology with Kelly Leonard
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Being neurodivergent isn’t a flaw or a superpower—it’s just a different way of experiencing the world.
To discuss the topic of neurodivergence, Debbie is joined by clinical psychologist Jennifer Kemp to talk about her new workbook, The Neurodivergence Skills Workbook for Autism and ADHD: Cultivate Self-Compassion, Live Authentically, and Be Your Own Advocate, created specifically for autistic people and ADHDers.
They explore themes from Jennifer’s book like what it means to receive a late diagnosis, why neurodiversity-affirming practices matter, and the real challenges (and stigma) that come with being neurodivergent. Plus, you’ll pick up insight into the power of self-compassion and why it’s essential for thriving in life—not just surviving.
Join us for this meaningful discussion on how understanding and accommodating neurodivergent behaviors can make a world of difference, whether in the workplace, relationships, or everyday life.
Listen and Learn:
How does embracing neurodivergence without over-simplifying the "superpower" narrative lead to healing?
Crafting a neurodiversity-affirming workbook to help autistic and ADHD individuals thrive
How code-switching, masking, and societal expectations fuel burnout
Masking, eye contact struggles, and mental burnout in neurodivergence
Why self-compassion and creative self-care are essential tools for navigating burnout, anxiety, and social overwhelm
Practical tips for setting boundaries, asking for accommodations, and embracing self-compassion
What changes could make life easier for autistic kids and how parents can break stigma
Resources:
● Books:
The Neurodivergence Skills Workbook for Autism and ADHD: Cultivate Self-Compassion, Live Authentically, and Be Your Own Advocate.
How to Keep House While Drowning: A Gentle Approach to Cleaning and Organizing
Unmasking Autism: The Power of Embracing Our Hidden Neurodiversity
● Website: https://jenniferkemp.com.au/
● Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-kemp-b6148b
● Connect on X: https://www.twitter.com/jenniferkemp2
● Connect on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Adelaide-Behaviour-Therapy-267123166960864
● Connect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennifer.kemp.psych
About Jennifer Kemp
BSc(Psych)Hons, MPsych(Clinical), GradDipApplSc(Psychology of Coaching) Adjunct lecturer, University of Adelaide
Jennifer Kemp is a privately practicing Clinical Psychologist based in Adelaide. Using a neurodiversity-affirming approach, Jennifer weaves together acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT), behavioral and compassion-focused approaches with her own lived experience of neurodivergence to help her clients improve their mental health and develop greater self-compassion, self-acceptance, and pride in their neurodivergent identity. Jennifer is the co-author of “The Neurodivergent Skills Workbook for Autism and ADHD: Cultivate Self-Compassion, Live Authentically, and Be Your Own Advocate” and author of “The ACT Workbook for Perfectionism: Build Your Best (Imperfect) Life Using Powerful Acceptance & Commitment Therapy and Self-Compassion Skills.”
Related Episodes:
226. ACT for Perfectionism with Jennifer Kemp
367. ADHD in Adulthood with Michaela Thomas
344. Differently Wired Kids with Deborah Reber
187. Raising a Child with ADHD, with Russell Barkley
358. How to Keep House While Drowning with KC Davis
https://offtheclockpsych.com/230-the-laziness-lie/
91. Disability as a Form of Diversity with Erin Andrews
256. Social Justice Parenting with Traci Baxley
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Some of the worst kinds of abuse happen right in front of us—often hidden behind love, care, and even medicine.
In this episode, Jill sits down with returning guest Andrea Dunlop and her co-author and colleague Mike Weber to talk about their book, The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy. Munchausen by Proxy (MBP) is a disturbing form of medical child abuse, which we have covered on the podcast before, where a caregiver—usually a mother—makes a child sick or pretends they are, all for attention and sympathy.
Andrea, a podcast host and expert on MBP, and Mike, a seasoned law enforcement officer with years of experience in child abuse cases, highlighted what they’ve learned from investigating these heartbreaking stories.
They explain why these cases are so hard to catch, the legal system’s challenges in prosecuting perpetrators, and the chilling similarities between MBP and child sexual abuse.
And make sure to stick around until the end of the episode, where Jill and Emily wrap up with a debrief about the emotional toll of confronting such tough realities.
Listen and Learn:
The shocking truth of Munchausen by Proxy and its hidden dynamics
The similarities between Munchausen by Proxy and child sexual abuse and the deep manipulation at play
How skilled manipulators exploit medical systems and doctors' blind spots to hide abuse.
Why even law enforcement, judges, and doctors might fail to recognize this devastating abuse
Why are false accusations often believed more than the reality of underreported child abuse cases?
Why is it so hard to accept that abuse can happen in 'good' families, and how can we spot it?
How Andrea and Mike keep fighting when the system fails abused children
Resources:
Book: The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy
Andrea’s Podcast: https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com/
Andrea’s Website: https://www.andreadunlop.net/
Connect with Andrea on Social Media:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/andreadunlop/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@andrea.dunlop?lang=en
Mike’s Website: https://www.mikeweberconsulting.com/
About Andrea Dunlop
Andrea Dunlop is the author of four novels, including She Regrets Nothing and Women Are the Fiercest Creatures, and the host and creator of Nobody Should Believe Me, an award-winning investigative true crime podcast about Munchausen by proxy. Andrea is the founder of Munchausen Support, the nation’s only non-profit dedicated to supporting survivors and families affected by MBP, and a member of the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP committee, where she serves alongside the country’s foremost experts. She lives in Seattle with her husband and two children.
About Mike Weber
Mike Weber has forty years of law enforcement experience, including fifteen years as a crimes against children investigator. Detective Weber has consulted with numerous police agencies and district attorney’s offices nationally on cases of medical child abuse, and was awarded the 2016 NCMEC Texas Hero for Children Award. He currently lives and works in Fort Worth.
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84. Courageous Conversations to Prevent Childhood Sexual Abuse with Feather Berkower
276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
308. Identifying and Surviving Gaslighting with Robin Stern
314. Munchausen by Proxy with Andrea Dunlop and Marc Feldman
320. Anger and Forgiveness with Robyn Walser
Bonus Episode: Nobody Should Believe Me with Andrea Dunlop
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Ever had a conversation that just clicked—where you felt truly heard and understood? What if you could create that kind of connection more often?
Best-selling author Charles Duhigg joins Debbie in a conversation about his latest book, Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection.
Discover the psychology of great conversations, the power of reciprocal vulnerability, and easy strategies for handling difficult conversations without losing control as we break down what makes some people exceptional communicators and how we can all cultivate those abilities in our daily lives.
Whether your goal is to improve your listening skills, build stronger relationships, or simply feel more comfortable in social settings, this episode is full of ideas to help you connect more deeply.Listen and Learn:
How "Supercommunicators" master connection
The recipe for instant connection and how small shifts in communication can turn strangers into friends
The Matching Principle and how syncing conversation types can help strengthen your relationships and connections
Why mastering communication is key to lifelong well-being and how stronger connections can lead you to lasting happiness.
How you can use the "matching principle" with your own partner to create deeper, more connected conversations
Tips for asking deep questions to help you connect more meaningfully and move beyond small talk
Shifting control in conflicts to create teamwork and healthier relationships
How quiet negotiations can transform tougher conversations into mutual understanding
Resources:
Charles’ Website: https://www.charlesduhigg.com/
Charles’ Book: Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection
Connect with Charles on Socials:
https://twitter.com/cduhigg
https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesduhigg/
https://www.instagram.com/charlesduhigg/
https://www.facebook.com/charlesduhigg
Yael’s Washington Post article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2024/04/19/couples-conversation-communications-understanding-problem-solving/
About Charles Duhigg
A graduate of Yale University and Harvard Business School, Charles is a Pulitzer prize-winning journalist and the author of The Power of Habit, which spent over three years on bestseller lists and has been translated into 40 languages, Supercommunicators, also a bestseller published in 2024, and Smarter Faster Better, a third bestseller. Mr. Duhigg writes for The New Yorker magazine and previously wrote for The New York Times.
Charles led the New York Times team that won the 2013 Pulitzer prize in explanatory journalism for “The iEconomy,” a series that examined the global economy through the lens of Apple. That series included examinations of such topics as the factories in China where iPhones and iPads are manufactured.
Charles has also received The George Polk award, the Gerald Loeb award, the Investigative Reporters and Editors Medal, the Scripps Howard National Journalism award, the Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award, and other honors.
While a reporter at the Los Angeles Times, Charles reported from Iraq about American military operations. Today, Charles writes for The New Yorker magazine.
Before becoming a full-time journalist in 2003, Charles worked as an analyst for American Property Global Partners, a private equity firm and co-founded SWPA Education Management Group, L.L.C., which developed education programs for medically underserved areas.
He was also, for one terrifying day in 1999, a bike messenger in San Francisco.
He lives in California with his wife and two children.
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276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
254. Cultivating Compassion for a Lasting Connection with Michaela Thomas
360. The Laws of Connection with David Robson
353. Ask Great Questions with Jeff Wetzler
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Tired of all the fighting over politics and morality? For this episode, we’re tackling moral outrage with Kurt Gray, a psychology professor and author of Outraged: Why We Fight about Morality and Politics and How to Find Common Ground. You’ll learn why we get so caught up in right vs. wrong, how to better understand what’s driving people’s fears and motivations, and how to connect—even when you don’t agree. Plus, you’ll get practical tips to manage your own outrage and have more empathetic conversations.
Listen and Learn:
The surprising key to bridging divides in relationships, even amidst deep moral disagreements
How morality evolved to balance selfish instincts with the need for cooperation in groups
How morality’s protective instincts can backfire, dividing us in groups and personal relationships
Do cultural norms and deeper perceptions of harm shape our moral judgments and conflicts?
Why does understanding the "other side" feel like betrayal—and what happens when both sides feel victimized?
How moral typecasting shapes our views, seeing ourselves as victims and others as villains
The complexity of human behavior and how even the most "evil" figures can have a backstory.
How motivated reasoning can shape our political views and blur our judgment in conflict
Embracing vulnerability and asking deeper questions to transform tough conversations
Resources:
● Books:
Outraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics and How to Find Common Ground
Doppelganger by Naomi Klein
The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein
Article: Should an affair be disclosed? by Yael
● Website: https://www.kurtjgray.com/
● Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtjgray/
● Connect on X: https://x.com/kurtjgray
● Connect on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kurtjgray
● Connect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kurtjgray/
About Kurt Gray
Kurt Gray is a Professor in Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where he directs the Deepest Beliefs Lab and the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding. And is the author of Outraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics and How to Find Common Ground.
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51. The Psychology of Political Division with Yael and Debbie
263. Relationships with Emotionally Immature People with Lindsay Gibson
276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
362. Adult Bullies and High Conflict People with Bill Eddy
371. Uniting Toward a Better Future with Diana McLain Smith
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What if the very thing keeping you from deep, meaningful friendships is the fear of being your true, imperfect self?
This week Michael sits down with Jess Johnston for a chat about authenticity, friendship, and overcoming the fear of rejection. They dive into themes for her book, Perfect Is Boring (and It Tastes Like Kale): Finding Belonging and Purpose Without Changing Who You Are, which offers a refreshing take on embracing who you are while finding your place in the world.
Together, they explore the ups and downs of adult friendships, including letting down your guard to create real bonds. Jess’s relatable stories and practical tips make it easy to see how consistency, courage, and even a little awkwardness can lead to meaningful relationships.
If you’ve ever felt like perfection gets in the way of connection, this conversation is perfect for you.
Listen and Learn:
Jess’ off-grid childhood that sparked her love for writing and how those experiences shaped her perspective on connection
The tension between performance and authenticity in your friendships and the courage to be rea
What are the profound differences between belonging and fitting in?
What does it really mean to be authentic?
Awkward moments forge deeper connections—why embracing imperfection matters in your relationships and life
The surprising power of intentionality and courage in building your adult friendships
Why the fear of rejection is key to building meaningful friendships
Resources:
Book: Perfect Is Boring (and It Tastes Like Kale): Finding Belonging and Purpose Without Changing Who You Are: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593728246
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessmariejohnston/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessjohnstonwonderoak/
Website: https://wonderoak.com/
About Jess Johnston
Jess Johnston lives in Southern California with her husband and four kids, who are the loves of her life. She is an Enneagram Seven and is enthusiastic about everything—but especially people, travel, and sauces. Jess’s writing makes you feel like you’re sitting cross-legged on her couch in your cozy pants while sharing hearts and drinking coffee. She is the co-author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller I’ll Be There (But I’ll Be Wearing Sweatpants) and has been a top contributor to publications such as HuffPost, Scary Mommy, and Motherly.
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385. Oliver Burkeman on Embracing Your Limitations
360. The Laws of Connection with David Robson
374. Developing and Deepening Connections with Adam Dorsay
271. Cultivating Friendships in Adulthood Featuring Adam Dorsay
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Raising strong, confident girls in today’s world isn’t always easy, and this episode is here to help. Dr. Jo-Ann Finkelstein chats with Dr. Emily Edlynn about her book, Sexism & Sensibility: Raising Empowered, Resilient Girls in the Modern World, and dives into how we can support girls as they face things like cultural pressures, objectification, and the subtle sexism that still lingers.
They share real, practical tips on helping girls think critically, find their voices, and navigate the media they’re exposed to. If you’re a parent, caregiver, or just someone who wants to make a positive difference, this conversation is full of valuable insights you won’t want to miss.
Listen and Learn:
Exploring the inspiration behind Sexism and Sensibility
How societal norms shape women's voices and learn how Jo-Ann’s book helps shift the narrative
Progress and pitfalls: The dualities of feminism and girls' empowerment in modern culture
How beauty culture, Eurocentric ideals, and self-objectification steal women’s power and potential
A parental guide to empowering your kids to combat self-objectification
The social dynamics that shape girls' voices and confidence, and why it's crucial for parents to intervene
How can fathers empower their daughters to speak up while protecting them from societal biases?
Resources:
Book: Sexism & Sensibility: Raising Empowered, Resilient Girls in the Modern World: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593581162
Website: https://www.joannfinkelstein.com/
Substack: https://joannfinkelstein.substack.com/
Connect on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@joannfinkelstein.phd
Connect on X: https://x.com/finkeljo?lang=en
Connect on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/100086974203277/
Connect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joannfinkelstein.phd/
About Jo-Ann Finkelstein:
Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD, is a clinical psychologist and the author of Sexism & Sensibility: Raising Empowered, Resilient Girls in the Modern World. She was educated at Harvard University and Northwestern University and now maintains a private clinical practice. An expert blogger for Psychology Today, her work has been highlighted in The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Harvard Business Review, Oprah Daily, and CNN, among others. Her writing has appeared in The Washington Post, Ms., Your Teen, and other publications. Dr. Finkelstein serves on the Advisory Board for Stop Sexual Assault in Schools. She lives in Chicago, Illinois.
Related Episodes:
381. Reimagining Boyhood with Ruth Whippman
369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
337. Puberty Is Awkward with Cara Natterson and Vanessa Kroll Bennett
332. Middle School Superpowers with Phyllis Fagell
317. Growing Up in Public with Devorah Heitner
290. Shared Sisterhood: Collective Action for Racial and Gender Equity at Work with Tina Opie and Beth Livingston
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