Afleveringen
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In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo talk about AEO and GEO and whether these are real new strategies or just rebranded SEO terms. They discuss AI search, ChatGPT visibility, client expectations, traditional SEO fundamentals, and what SEO practitioners should really focus on as search behavior continues to change.
Transcript Summary
00:01 - 00:51
Gelo opens the episode by introducing the topic AEO or GEO and asks whether these are real new strategies or just new buzzwords in SEO. Gab mentions that terms like AEO, GEO, and AIO are becoming common not only on social media but also among clients.
00:51 - 02:35
Gab shares that almost all of his clients now ask about AEO and GEO. He also mentions that many job posts already require experience with AI Overviews and LLM optimization. He explains that these terms started gaining popularity around the rise of ChatGPT search, and at first he saw them as buzzwords used for marketing. But over time, the demand became real because clients started looking for these services.
02:35 - 04:16
Gelo talks about how clients now use ChatGPT themselves and ask why their businesses are not appearing in AI search results. Gab says he still prefers traditional Google search and does not fully trust AI Overviews unless the result provides a proper step-by-step guide. If the AI answer is lacking, he checks the sources directly.
04:17 - 07:12
Gab explains the difference between traditional SEO, AEO, and GEO. Traditional SEO focuses on ranking websites in blue link search results. AEO or Answer Engine Optimization focuses on becoming the answer shown in AI Overviews and different search formats like videos, images, and shopping results. GEO or Generative Engine Optimization focuses on visibility inside AI tools like ChatGPT, Copilot, and Perplexity. Gab explains that even brand mentions without links can help GEO visibility.
07:12 - 11:36
Gelo asks if there is real evidence that AEO or GEO works. Gab shares examples from e-commerce clients where traffic and conversions from ChatGPT or AI tools can already be tracked through UTM parameters and WooCommerce data. However, he also admits that proving exact queries and causation is still difficult. Both hosts agree that many so-called GEO strategies still resemble traditional SEO practices and that the industry is still heavily experimenting.
11:37 - 15:59
Gab says there is still no solid checklist for GEO or AEO because most successful case studies still rely on traditional SEO foundations. He shares that brand mentions and Reddit engagement seem to influence AI visibility. Gelo adds that original studies and datasets can increase the chances of being cited by LLMs. Gab also explains that social media mentions may influence how AI tools recognize and cite brands.
16:27 - 18:40
The conversation shifts to agencies calling themselves AEO or GEO specialists. Gab honestly says many agencies are simply using these labels because the demand already exists. From his perspective, the work is still largely SEO, but clients are actively searching for these services because they want visibility inside AI tools.
18:40 - 21:36
Gelo asks whether SEO practitioners should start studying AEO and GEO. Gab explains that fundamentals still matter the most. Traditional SEO remains the foundation, especially for beginners. He says AI automation and AI workflows are a different skill set compared to offering SEO as a service.
21:36 - 26:14
The hosts discuss the future of content websites in the AI era. They talk about how many purely content-based websites are losing traffic or getting de-indexed, while real businesses and strong brands appear more resilient. They also warn listeners about manipulated traffic metrics, fake authority signals, and low-quality link farms. Gelo encourages SEO practitioners to embrace AI and integrate it into their workflow.
26:15 - 28:47
Gab says they are still testing AI-related workflows before releasing any new course or training. He emphasizes the importance of collecting real case studies first. In the conclusion, Gab explains that AEO and GEO are not necessarily scams, but they are often repackaged SEO concepts with new branding. From a client perspective, these labels work because businesses want solutions for AI visibility.
28:47 - 33:00
The episode closes with advice for SEO practitioners to continue experimenting, stay proactive, and avoid blindly following every new tactic being promoted online. Gab warns listeners to be careful with strategies that promise guaranteed AI visibility. Both hosts encourage listeners to keep testing and adapting as search continues to evolve.
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In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo dive deep into the reality behind AI automation, content generation, SEO careers, freelancing, and the skills that still make humans irreplaceable. From critical thinking and strategy to client communication and relationship building, this conversation uncovers what truly separates valuable SEOs from replaceable ones.
If you’re an SEO, VA, freelancer, marketer, or someone worried about AI taking over your industry, this episode is for you.
Transcript Summary:
00:00 - 02:37
Gelo introduces the episode and discusses the growing concern that AI may replace SEO jobs.Gab shares that the discussion was inspired by a Facebook post asking: “What do you bring to the table that AI can’t replace?”Gelo explains that AI replacing some jobs is already happening across industries, and SEO professionals should focus on providing value that AI cannot fully replicate.Businesses are actively exploring AI to reduce manpower costs, making adaptation necessary for marketers and SEOs.02:37 - 05:26
Gab points out that many people wrongly believe SEO is only about writing content.He explains that SEO also involves:Technical SEOLink buildingLocal SEOStrategy implementationGelo says that in the past, being good at content writing alone was enough to be considered an SEO. Now, AI can already generate content, so SEOs need broader skill sets to stay valuable.05:26 - 09:55
Gab asks what AI is currently capable of in SEO.Gelo explains that AI can assist with ideas and content generation, but:It still needs human judgmentOutputs are often generic without proper contextAI struggles to deeply understand customer pain points and business goalsGab adds that AI cannot truly experience real-world customer behavior or emotions.They also discuss how AI cannot fully replace:Relationship-buildingNetworkingPR outreachHuman connection with writers and journalists10:03 - 14:15
Gelo shares that AI can already handle around 80% of article creation, especially grammar and optimization.The remaining 20% still requires:Unique insightsOriginal researchReal-world expertiseAdded depthGab emphasizes the importance of:Subject matter expertsFact-checkingYMYL (Your Money Your Life) content accuracyLegal and regional complianceHe also recommends using AI project knowledge bases in tools like ChatGPT or Claude to improve outputs using:Brand guidelinesICPsIndustry-specific information14:15 - 18:28
Gab stresses that people who refuse to learn AI are more likely to struggle in the future.Both speakers agree that AI should be embraced as a tool rather than feared.They discuss AI-powered SEO tools and automation platforms but note that:Most tools still have limitationsHuman implementation and oversight are still neededAI-generated strategies are not always reliable18:28 - 27:08
Key Skills Discussed:Technical implementationBackend/server knowledgeCommunication skillsSales and client-facing abilitiesCritical thinkingStorytelling using dataPrompt engineeringChain prompting and follow-up questioningCuriosity and continuous learningGelo says implementation skills are extremely valuable because AI still cannot execute everything properly.Gab highlights the importance of:Connecting data to business outcomesExplaining SEO results clearly to clientsCommunicating value even when attribution is difficultBoth speakers repeatedly emphasize:Critical thinkingConnecting the dotsHuman judgmentGab ends the section by saying curiosity is one of the most important traits to develop in any industry.27:09 - 32:39
Gab asks whether AI helps beginners compete with experienced SEOs.Gelo describes AI as a “double-edged sword.”AI helps newer SEOs:Learn fasterStrategize quickerCompete with traditional SEOsHowever, AI also creates:Information overloadFake expertiseLow-quality automation contentConfusing online adviceGab warns that many people online are simply copying AI-generated templates and pretending to be experts.33:21 - 36:46
Gab asks about the biggest misconceptions spread by AI doomers.Gelo says exaggerated claims like:“I replaced my entire marketing team with AI”“SEO is dead” are often just clickbait.They agree that:AI still needs human expertsSEO continues evolving rather than disappearingThe discussion also compares:Highly technical SEOsClient-facing communicatorsBoth agree that different skill sets can survive if paired properly.37:23 - 42:49
Gelo believes almost every industry will be affected by AI, especially:MarketingEducationCustomer serviceBPOCoding and engineeringThey discuss:AI-assisted healthcare consultationsAI passing professional examsReal-time AI translation replacing multilingual support rolesGab mentions recent layoffs in tech companies and how global freelancing competition may become tougher.43:33 - 46:36
Gelo explains that without AI:Organic clicks would likely remain strongerContent production would be much slowerResearch and development would take longerAI has dramatically sped up:ResearchCodingWebsite implementationTool creationHowever, the downside is the rise of mass-produced low-quality content and AI-generated spam.46:38 - 55:44
Learn AI tools properly instead of fearing themFocus on SEO fundamentalsDevelop judgment and accountabilityLearn how to connect strategies with business outcomesImprove critical thinking and communication skillsGab warns beginners not to blindly believe social media success stories about freelancing and AI automation.The episode closes with encouragement to:Keep learningAdapt to changeStay curious
Use AI as leverage instead of viewing it purely as competitionDon't forget to follow us on our socials and platforms. Let's make this community grow together!
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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There are so many AI tools available today, and everywhere you look, there’s a new platform, feature, or workflow being promoted as something you “need” for SEO. But instead of making things easier, this constant stream of tools often leads to confusion, wasted time, and unnecessary spending. It becomes harder to figure out what actually matters and where you should focus your attention.
In this episode, Gab and Gelo break down that reality. They share their personal experiences with trying, testing, and even dropping tools, and talk about how to decide what’s truly worth using. This is not about chasing every new AI trend. It is about understanding how to use the right tools in a way that actually supports your work and delivers real results.
Transcript Summary
00:00 - 00:25
Gab: Introduces the episode and the topic about the overwhelming number of AI tools and what is actually necessary for SEO.
Gelo: Points out the problem of information overload from social media and how it confuses people on what tool to use first.
00:25 - 01:28
Gab: Talks about how clients also suggest tools, adding to confusion.
Gelo: Shares that he has tried many AI tools, possibly 30+, due to experimentation and access to platforms like AppSumo.
01:28 - 03:26
Gab: Shares a negative experience with a fake AI tool that caused a virus, making him more cautious.
Gelo: Explains his system of trying tools quickly and removing them if they don’t fit the workflow.
03:26 - 04:20
Gelo: Uses free trials and tracks subscriptions to avoid charges. Avoids tools with steep learning curves.
Gab: Prefers tested and reviewed tools instead of experimenting early.
04:21 - 05:59
Gelo: Mentions hyped tools like GHL and N8N but did not stick with them due to complexity. Prefers simpler tools like Zapier or Make.
Gab: Only subscribes to tools when necessary.
05:59 - 07:54
Gelo: Shares he allocates a monthly budget for tools and learning. Uses AI to explore coding despite not having a coding background.
Gab: Asks how Gelo chooses tools.
08:18 - 10:33
Gelo: Uses Reddit, YouTube reviews, and Discord communities to validate tools. Focuses on real use cases for clients before buying.
10:33 - 12:40
Gab: Shares his 3 criteria for tools:
Helps the agency directly
Improves income
Speeds up processes
12:40 - 14:17
Gelo: Adds that the team’s usability matters and uses the 80% rule.
Gab: Agrees and highlights verification as the main role after AI output.
14:17 - 17:55
Gelo: Shares daily tools: Gemini, ChatGPT, Claude, NotebookLM, and voice tools. Each has specific use cases.
Gab: Also leans toward Claude for strategy and ChatGPT for general use.
17:55 - 22:14
Discussion on managing multiple subscriptions and organizing tools in a spreadsheet to track usage and costs.
22:14 - 24:14
Gab: Recommends focusing on ChatGPT and Claude.
Gelo: Explains Claude models (Haiku, Sonnet, Opus) and their use cases.
26:11 - 28:28
Gelo: Introduces the 80-10-10 AI philosophy:
10% input and strategy
80% AI work
10% review
Gab: Suggests collaborative prompting instead of full reliance on AI.
30:34 - 33:53
Gelo: Explains avoiding generic outputs through better data input, connectors, and chain prompting.
Gab: Emphasizes reviewing outputs and avoiding templated strategies.
33:53 - 36:18
Discussion on what should not be automated such as implementation and technical SEO tasks without proper knowledge.
36:18 - 40:18
Gab: Highlights link building and outreach as areas that should remain personalized.
Gelo: Notes declining open rates possibly due to AI-generated outreach.
40:18 - 42:40
Advice for beginners:
Gelo: Start with one or two tools like ChatGPT and master them.
Gab: Focus on SEO fundamentals first before using AI.
42:40 - 45:05
They recommend creators to follow for learning AI and SEO.
45:05 - 47:46
Closing thoughts: focus on results, KPIs, and continuous learning. Invite listeners to follow their content and stay tuned.
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In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo dive into the real impact of the Iran war crisis on freelancers and agency founders. From rising expenses to losing clients, they share how they’re adapting, cutting costs, leveraging AI, and finding ways to stay afloat in a tough economy.
If you’re feeling the pressure, questioning your next move, or simply looking for practical ways to survive (and even grow) during uncertain times—this conversation is for you.
Tune in and discover how to stay resilient when everything around you is changing.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 00:40
Gelo opens the comeback episode of SEO Kwentuhan.Gab introduces the topic: the Iran war crisis and its economic impact.Focus: how SEO freelancers and agency founders are adapting and surviving.00:41 – 01:22
Discussion begins with rising fuel prices (diesel potentially reaching ₱150–₱200/liter).Gab highlights uncertainty in pricing.Gelo notes transportation costs as one of the first major impacts.01:23 – 03:05
Reduced travel and more time spent at home.Shift in food consumption:Less meat, more fish and vegetablesEnergy-saving habits:Limiting appliance useSetting aircon to 24°CEarly monitoring of electricity bills.03:06 – 04:19
Gelo emphasizes awareness of:Electricity usageWater waste (e.g., open faucets)Small habits can lead to significant savings.04:20 – 06:13
Discussion on fuel “price lock” strategies.Pros:Protection from price increasesCons:Risk if prices dropObservation: smaller gas stations often have longer queues.06:13 – 07:29
Gab shares mindset changes:Teaching kids to avoid wasteBuying only what is necessaryFocus on eliminating excess consumption.07:30 – 08:37
Gab (agency perspective):Focus on long-term clientsAvoid clients expecting quick SEO resultsPrioritize resilient industries:Strong: solar, essentialsWeak: luxury, non-essential sectors08:37 – 12:08
Gelo’s strategies:Increasing emergency fund (up to 12 months)Using high-yield savings accountsCutting unnecessary AI/LLM subscriptionsStrong shift to AI automation:80% execution via AI10% strategy10% validationGoal: save time and reduce costs.12:08 – 13:33
Importance of health during crisis:Illness increases financial burdenRising healthcare costsAdvice: prioritize physical health and consistency.13:34 – 16:12
Water-saving approach:Installing deep wells (province setup)Electricity-saving approach:Exploring solar panel installationGoal: reduce dependence on utilities.16:12 – 18:02
Aircon optimization techniques:Set to 24°CUse timers (off at 4 AM, on at 7 AM)Balance between comfort and efficiency.18:02 – 20:08
Community tips:Meal planningAvoid unnecessary purchasesReduce subscriptionsStart home gardening or aquaponicsKey idea: reduce expenses while increasing income.20:08 – 23:14
Gelo:Lost a client and chose to reassessExploring collaborations and new opportunitiesGab:Evaluate client industries before accepting workFocus on essential sectorsAvoid vulnerable industries like travelTarget stable markets.23:14 – 25:38
Advice to freelancers:Upskill, especially in AIImprove systems and workflowsMarket becoming more competitive due to layoffsShift toward an AI-first approach.25:38 – 27:40
Lifestyle changes:Fewer outingsMore home-based activities (e.g., board games)Cost-saving habits:Brewing coffee at homeCooking instead of ordering.27:40 – 30:19
Gab (agency adjustments):Slight price increases due to inflationProviding team support/allowancesLess flexibility in negotiationsFocus on sustainability.30:19 – 32:58
Emotional challenges:Frustration with rising costs and policiesPersonal struggles:Health issues affecting productivityEmphasis on resilience.32:58 – 35:54
Discussion on taxation:Comparison with lower-tax countriesConcern over heavy tax burden in the PhilippinesImpact on small businesses.35:54 – 37:23
Strong emphasis on emergency funds:Personal savingsBusiness buffer (3–6 months).37:23 – 40:05
Introduction of “FU Money”:Fund for opportunities or emergenciesAdvice:Save consistentlyPrepare for client loss scenarios.40:05 – 43:23
Investment perspectives:Conservative approach: hold cashOpportunistic approach: invest in declining marketsExamples:Solar-related stocksHigh-yield savings accounts.43:23 – 45:04
Advice for overwhelmed freelancers:Read mindset-focused booksImprove skills and portfolioExplore alternative career paths.45:04 – 47:13
Actionable steps:Audit finances and skillsReflect on past performanceTake ownership and actAvoid victim mindset and focus on solutions.47:13 – 48:28
Closing encouragement:Stay resilientContinue learning and adaptingPodcast sign-off and invitation to follow their content.Let's connect and help each other grow. Follow us on our community!
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What happens when you hit pause for months in a fast-moving industry like SEO… and come back to a completely different game? In this comeback episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo share what really happened during their quiet season and the unexpected lessons they uncovered about today’s SEO landscape.
From AI taking over workflows to traffic drops, changing client expectations, and why branding now matters more than rankings, this episode is packed with honest insights. If you’ve ever felt like you’re falling behind or unsure how to stay relevant in the AI era, this conversation will give you a clearer perspective—and a reason to keep going. ️
Transcript Summary:
00:00 - 00:33
Gab opens the comeback episode of SEO Kwentuhan. Gelo explains that after months of silence, they want to talk about why they stopped recording and what that season taught them about SEO, especially in today’s AI-driven landscape.
00:33 - 03:23
Gab shares that he became busy improving his agency, handling trainings, client work, and their fitness challenge, while also prioritizing rest on weekends. He also mentions spending time building their new home and sourcing materials personally.
Gelo says personal matters, the holidays, new client strategy work, and stepping back from social media also contributed to the pause.
03:23 - 06:58
Gab admits he worried that no one would still listen after such a long break and that they might fall behind in the fast-changing SEO industry.
Gelo reassures him, sharing that the podcast still brought in consulting opportunities. Both reflect on how listeners and community members continued to remember and value the show.
06:58 - 10:25
Gab says the pause reminded him to focus on what is already on his plate, especially the business, which improved significantly during that time.
Gelo says one key realization is that the busiest and most experienced SEO practitioners are often too busy doing the work to constantly produce content or courses. He also highlights how much AI now handles in SEO workflows, making adaptation necessary.
10:25 - 13:51
Gab says he now focuses less on execution and more on strategy, client acquisition, and retention, while also taking his health more seriously.
Gelo says he relies less on Ahrefs and more on Google Search Console and Bing Webmaster Tools, especially as those tools become more useful in the AI era.
13:52 - 17:50
Gab explains that while SEO fundamentals remain the same, they have added newer tactics such as Reddit optimization, broader query research, and work that can help with AI citations.
Gelo says he now sends more regular updates to clients and even leads, including SEO news translated into practical business impact using AI.
17:50 - 24:54
Gab says the biggest shift he noticed is that organic traffic has dropped in many industries because of AI Overviews, though conversions have often stayed more stable. He also notes that “AI optimization” is now a strong selling point for clients.
Both discuss how AI-generated content is flooding the web, which makes authenticity and human input more important.
24:55 - 30:43
Gelo says SEO fundamentals still matter, but branding is becoming even more important because search results are more crowded and AI makes it easier for anyone to launch websites quickly.
Gab agrees and says SEO is no longer just about ranking for a keyword. It now has to support a stronger brand and a better customer journey.
30:43 - 35:55
Gab says SEO is now both more competitive and more open. AI makes it easier for newcomers to offer SEO-related work, but real expertise and results still matter.
Gelo adds that since SEO is often one of the first services cut when budgets get tight, professionals need to show value beyond traffic, such as leads, signups, and revenue impact.
35:55 - 42:52
Gab says if he were starting again, he would still use AI but would not rely on it too much for strategy. He would focus on creativity, human understanding, and firsthand experience.
Gelo says he would start by following the right people, learning how they think, testing ideas, and building his own system instead of depending too much on AI alone.
42:52 - 48:41
Both agree that AI has lowered the barrier to entry in SEO, but long-term success still depends on learning, decision-making, communication, and delivering real results.
They close by thanking listeners, joking about their fears of being forgotten, and announcing that SEO Kwentuhan is back.
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Imagine walking into Jollibee, ordering your favorite Chickenjoy, and realizing there’s no gravy. The chicken might still be delicious, but without the gravy, the experience feels incomplete. That’s the same story when websites focus solely on SEO and ignore user experience. You may get traffic, but without seamless navigation and intuitive design, visitors leave unsatisfied.
In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab sits down with UX designer and startup founder Genisis Buico to dive into why SEO without UX simply doesn’t work. They explore how the right balance of both can boost conversions, build trust, and keep users coming back. If you want your SEO efforts to truly pay off, this conversation will show you why UX is the secret ingredient you can’t afford to skip.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 02:43
The episode starts with Gab introducing the topic and welcoming guest Genesis Buico, a UX designer and founder of a startup agency in Surigao City. Genesis shares his career journey. He originally trained as a registered nurse but eventually shifted to UX because of his passion for design and problem-solving. He explains how UX is not just about visuals, it is about solving business problems through design.
02:43 – 04:22
Genesis explains that UX is the backbone of a website’s performance. A site may look good, but if users can’t find what they need, the bounce rate increases and SEO efforts are wasted. With good UX, websites become more intuitive, trustworthy, and effective in driving conversions. Gab recalls Genesis’ past conference presentation where Apple was used as an example, simple UX and branding that people instantly recognize and trust.
04:23 – 06:11
The conversation moves to what UX really means. Genesis explains that UX is about understanding the “why” behind user actions such as why they click, scroll, or leave. He contrasts SEO and UX: SEO drives traffic, but UX determines if that traffic converts into customers. He also ties UX to conversion rate optimization (CRO), making websites easier to use even for non-technical visitors.
06:13 – 07:50
Genesis shares that UX is a strong skill for freelancers. Clients prefer people who can connect creativity to actual results, not just create good-looking designs. UX ensures websites don’t just look nice but also deliver business outcomes like conversions and KPIs.
07:51 – 09:10
Most of Genesis’ clients are international, especially in the US, where businesses prioritize UX. Locally, only some companies invest in it, and those that do usually perform better. He also notes that many websites look alike, but businesses that focus on UX gain a real competitive advantage.
09:10 – 11:41
Genesis explains how to get started in UX. Formal certifications are available but can be expensive. For beginners, free resources like YouTube are enough. Key skills include user research, wireframing, and usability testing. He recommends using Figma, which is free and useful for both design and organizing user flows, personas, and research notes.
11:41 – 12:43
Genesis uses a mall analogy to explain UX to clients. Even if thousands of people enter a mall, they’ll leave if there are no signs to guide them. Similarly, traffic is wasted if users can’t navigate a website. UX provides direction and helps turn visitors into customers.
12:44 – 14:19
Both organic and paid traffic are wasted without good UX. Whether it’s from SEO or ads, if the site is confusing, users won’t convert. Genesis emphasizes first impressions. If a site looks professional and is easy to navigate, users are more likely to come back, even if they don’t buy on their first visit.
14:24 – 15:39
For small businesses or freelancers without a budget, Genesis says UX improvements can be done with common sense: clear call-to-actions, mobile responsiveness, and simplified navigation. Tutorials and free resources online can also help. UX doesn’t have to be overly complicated to be effective.
15:41 – 18:05
Genesis explains that SEO and UX professionals should work in collaboration, not competition. In his agency, they created a rule to collaborate, which made projects faster and more effective. He points out that ego clashes often slow down progress, but respecting each other’s roles leads to better outcomes and happier clients.
18:11 – 19:57
Genesis gives advice to those interested in UX. Even without a budget, people can start with free or short online courses. He also shares that his agency offers white-label UX services that freelancers can resell. He encourages suggesting UX improvements to clients, especially when websites have high traffic but low conversions.
19:57 – 21:46
The conversation shifts to AI. Genesis admits AI has affected his work, but in a positive way. It speeds up processes and helps them deliver more efficiently. He stresses the importance of adapting quickly, continuously upskilling, and networking to stay competitive.
21:46 – 22:00
The episode wraps up with Gab thanking Genesis for joining. Genesis shares where people can connect with him through Creatopia Digital Marketing and his social media accounts. Both host and guest encourage listeners to keep learning and adding new skills.
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Thinking about leveling up from freelancing to contracting? In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo break down what it really means to be an SEO contractor. They share the key differences from freelancing, what agencies actually look for, and the common challenges that come with this career path.
If you’ve ever wondered how to handle clients, set professional boundaries, and create long-term stability in your SEO journey, this conversation is packed with practical insights. Whether you’re just starting out or already working in the field, you’ll pick up lessons that can help you grow with confidence.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 01:04
Gab opens the episode and welcomes listeners.
Gelo jokes about discussing DPWH contractors before steering to the real topic: what it means to be an SEO contractor.
They set the stage: SEO contracting as a hot, relevant path for freelancers wanting to formalize their work.
01:05 – 02:56
Gab explains: SEO contractors are independent workers offering SEO services, usually project-based and contract-driven.
Unlike a fixed 9-to-5, it’s flexible and structured around deliverables.
Formal setup often requires business registration and monthly service invoices.
He draws the line between freelancers and contractors:
Freelancers = sign contracts under their own name.
Contractors = can operate under a business name.
Gab mentions resources (like Freelancer BIR Tax Compliance FB page) to help freelancers register properly.
03:00 – 05:40
Gelo asks about the difference between white label SEO and direct contracting.
Gab explains:
White label SEO = you do the SEO work for an agency, but the agency handles the client relationship.
Direct contracting = you face the client yourself, handle reporting, invoicing, and strategy.
He shares his first-hand experience from 2012 when white label was booming, often with resellers creating “agencies” who outsource SEO tasks.
Common example: same infographic used for multiple clients with just logos swapped.
They note that white label outsourcing is especially common in India and the Philippines due to lower labor costs.
05:52 – 09:30
Gab’s points:
Less stressful since you don’t need to deal with clients directly.
You focus purely on SEO tasks, while agencies handle communication and reporting.
Avoids the pressure of sales pitches and lead generation.
Gelo’s add-ons:
Reduced client drama, you’re shielded from unrealistic complaints like blaming SEO for sales drops.
For introverts, this setup is a big win.
Reporting is straightforward (action plans, monthly summaries).
09:31 – 12:41
Gab notes the downsides:
Lower pay than direct contracts (since agencies take a cut).
Harder to use projects as case studies since you’re invisible to the end client.
Risk of dependency on the agency if they lose clients, you lose work.
Gelo shares a real frustration: agencies often overpromise results (like ranking #1 in a month), then dump the impossible expectations on contractors.
Both agree: misaligned KPIs and overpromises are the hardest part.
13:07 – 15:28
Gab clarifies:
White label work is usually for experienced SEOs, not beginners.
You need a portfolio, case studies, and proven results before agencies trust you.
Partnering with web dev agencies, copywriters, or ads specialists makes your offer stronger.
They discuss whether it’s better to be a generalist or specialist:
Agencies prefer people who can do more (generalists often get higher pay).
But specialists can fill specific gaps e.g., link building if that’s what the agency lacks.
15:38 – 18:05
Agencies may need:
Technical SEO, link building, reporting, or GA4 + Looker Studio setup.
Some want SEOs to be client-facing, others just backend executors.
Gab emphasizes: having broad SEO experience first helps before niching down into white label services.
Gelo notes that digital marketing now demands a wider skillset (SEO plus social, content, design, etc.), making upskilling vital.
18:07 – 22:43
Contracts are key: always define scope, deliverables, pricing, and payment terms.
Gab’s advice:
Request upfront fees (though many freelancers are scared to).
If the client isn’t sure about you, offer a small test task.
Use milestone-based payments (like on Upwork).
Gelo’s reflection:
Confidence in asking for upfront grows with experience and proven systems.
When starting out, it’s normal to be nervous.
They note some clients only want to pay after seeing results, freelancers need to decide if that’s a red flag.
23:04 – 24:42
Gelo asks if contracts are signed online (Philippines vs. U.S.) hold legal weight.
Gab admits:
It depends, and consulting a lawyer is best.
Generally, contracts can be binding if signed and dated properly, but enforcement depends on jurisdiction.
Always be cautious especially with NDAs and sensitive client data.
25:05 – 26:37
Start by partnering with people you know or trust (through networking, groups, or conferences).
Study various SEO aspects since agencies may look for different skills.
Networking is the best way to land contracts (more effective than cold emails).
Building a personal brand through case studies, webinars, and visibility makes agencies remember you.
27:01 – 28:33
Gelo’s tip: Document everything you do (even with free tools like Loom).
Helps streamline workflows.
Enables delegation later when scaling.
Documentation also makes automation possible, especially with AI.
Gab adds: Investing in your own tools is a must. Don’t rely on agencies to provide them—it makes you more professional and credible.
28:50 – 29:57
Always prepare a proposal presentation when pitching services.
Show that you’ve researched the client’s website even before being hired, it makes a big impression.
Gelo mentions that with prompts and GPT tools, proposals are now faster to build.
30:20 – 31:03
They circle back to jokes about “DPWH contractors” and “ghost projects” (don’t accept contracts and then ghost).
Reminder: Filipino SEOs should protect their reputation globally by being reliable.
31:04 – End
Gelo asks if Gab has announcements, none yet, but he’s exploring future projects.
They close with light banter and reflections on the discussion.
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The SEO world is full of bold claims: “SEO is dead,” “AI will take over,” “Google’s changing everything.” It’s easy to feel like the rules keep shifting faster than you can keep up. But here’s the good news: there’s still plenty of opportunity for those who know how to adapt.
In this podcast episode, we dive into the real state of informational content in the age of AIO, GEO, and constant algorithm updates. You’ll learn what’s actually working right now, how to make your content stand out, and why there’s still a huge place for creators who focus on value, originality, and trust. The game isn’t over, it’s just changing and you can still win.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 00:47
Gab welcomes listeners to the new episode of SEO Kwentuhan.
Gelo says today’s topic is relevant because many are confused about whether informational content still matters in the age of AIO, GEO, and claims that “SEO is dead.”
They clarify the focus: not gender, but content — especially top-of-funnel informational articles in the AI-driven era.
00:48 – 02:46
Gab explains he still sees AIO, GEO, and SEO as one, though others label themselves differently. Many newcomers don’t realize the similarities.
Inquiries from freelancers show interest in SEO-related work because of current job openings.
Informational articles are still effective but need to be more strategic — no more basic “what is SEO” type posts.
AI tools make definitions easy to find, so the focus should be on adding EEAT (Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, Trustworthiness) for uniqueness.
02:48 – 05:13
Gelo stresses showing expertise so target customers trust you.
He references Kevin Indig’s “Demand Activation” concept — informational content still drives results, even with AI overviews.
Around 80% of users still click through to verify AI-generated info due to potential hallucinations.
Moves discussion toward whether “SEO is dead” impacts the value of informational content.
05:13 – 07:24
Gab says SEO won’t disappear, but search behavior is shifting: clicks may be flat or lower while impressions rise (due to zero-click searches).
Informational content remains important for brand awareness and lead nurturing, but it must be unique.
Suggests combining articles with visuals, videos, testimonials — content that AI can’t easily replicate.
07:24 – 09:03
Gelo points out that real, value-driven SEO won’t die.
Gab explains that basic top-of-funnel definitions aren’t as useful for businesses now — focus is on building topical authority, not just chasing traffic.
Informational content should help users know the brand and convert later.
09:03 – 11:24
Some big sites add lead magnets (email captures, downloads) to informational content to monetize traffic.
Gab recommends 60% focus on transactional/commercial keywords because AI overviews often skip those.
Informational content works best in industries like health or law for building authority.
SaaS may need more product-led content to compete.
11:57 – 15:24
Gab notes informational pages are still crawled by LLMs, so don’t neglect them — just improve quality.
Gelo cites research showing revenue can stay steady or rise even when traffic drops, thanks to “mental availability.”
People search differently depending on the platform — YouTube for tutorials, TikTok for trends, Reddit for discussions.
Know where your audience spends time and optimize for those channels.
16:10 – 18:33
Gab lists ways to make informational content stand out:
Add real-world experience customers had with your product/service.
Use original data from surveys, polls, or case studies.
Include unique videos, such as behind-the-scenes in a factory or process.
These are hard to fake or automate with AI.
18:49 – 21:30
Gab has seen KPIs like CTR drop as AI overviews expand, even without full rollout in the Philippines.
Explains to clients that higher impressions but lower clicks are due to zero-click searches.
Gelo advises shifting metrics focus toward conversions and purchases.
Gab mentions some clients now get leads directly via ChatGPT, tracked in CRMs using UTM parameters.
22:20 – 23:58
Gab says it depends on the site’s stage:
New sites should avoid high-volume, competitive informational keywords.
Build topical authority with easier, related topics first.
Uses a furniture niche example: start with “ergonomic office furniture” before broad “furniture.”
23:58 – 25:48
Gelo suggests checking if a keyword comes up often in customer calls or conversations — those are worth targeting.
Ask SMEs if certain informational keywords have historically converted.
Tag CTAs in content to see if they get clicks, and update older content for the current year.
25:48 – 30:28 | Informational Content AI Can’t Replace
Gab: Case studies, actual problem-solving processes, and client video testimonials are irreplaceable.
Gelo: Proprietary, data-driven research (e.g., usage trends from Canva or Adobe) is also unique.
Gab shares a real estate strategy using compiled housing data, prices, and local wage comparisons to create original insights.
30:49 – 32:44
Gab: Use analytics to track engagement, not just rankings — clicks on nav, CTAs, scroll depth, etc.
Tools like Google Analytics, Microsoft Clarity, or Hotjar can help.
Gelo jokes that AI made things harder because anyone can mass-produce content now.
32:54
Gab invites listeners to a free webinar on content optimization strategies in the AI era.
Don't forget to visit our communities. Let's achieve success together!
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Starting your SEO journey but don’t know how to build a portfolio? You’re not alone. In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo share straightforward, beginner-friendly tips on how to create an SEO portfolio even if you have no clients yet.
From what to include, where to showcase your work, and how to make it stand out, this episode is packed with real advice to help you take the first step with confidence. Whether you're freelancing, job hunting, or just building your skills, this is a must-listen for anyone serious about growing in SEO.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 00:06
Gab: Welcome to another episode of SEO Kwentuhan, where we talk about the more relaxed and practical side of SEO.
00:07 – 00:33
Gelo: Today’s topic is one of the most frequently asked especially by beginners in SEO: “How do I build my SEO portfolio?” It’s a common question for anyone just getting started.
00:33 – 01:13
Gab: Right. In freelancing, having a portfolio is almost a requirement now. It’s hard to pitch yourself without one. An SEO portfolio is a collection of your past projects, strategies you've used, and results you've delivered. It’s very different from a resume this isn’t about your background, it's about your work.
01:13 – 02:12
Gab: Depending on your SEO specialization whether it’s technical, link building, or content, you can include relevant samples. For link building, include a few backlinks you've built. For content, add articles you’ve written or optimized. Just be cautious if NDAs are involved.
02:12 – 03:02
Gelo: That’s right. Sometimes, you can’t share everything.
Gab: Yes, but you can anonymize the data. Just show the graphs, mention the industry (like SaaS), blur sensitive info, and still demonstrate results, like traffic growth.
03:15 – 04:04
Gelo: To define it simply, an SEO portfolio is a collection of case studies and results that showcase your skills. It’s more than just where you studied or your job history. It’s proof of how you actually helped websites rank better.
04:04 – 05:27
Gab: You don’t need years of experience to start. I began with a basic spreadsheet showing audits I’d done. Even if they’re from practice sites, include your process and learnings. Your own website can be your first project.
05:28 – 06:30
Gab: Also, include certificates from tools like Google Analytics, HubSpot, and others. These build credibility early on.
06:31 – 07:18
Gelo: True. Certifications—whether free or paid are a great start. But sir, how do you show results if you haven’t worked with big clients yet?
07:18 – 08:07
Gab: Build your own website and optimize it. For example, rank for a local term like "SEO Bulacan." When you see your site on the first page, that’s proof of your skill.
08:13 – 09:26
Gelo: You could also offer free work to small businesses. Use Hunter.io to find agency emails, offer free services, and use those as case studies. If you do a good job, they might give you a LinkedIn review.
09:28 – 10:17
Gab: Some students post about their site optimizations on Facebook, offering to work as a trainee. It’s a great way to get noticed by professionals. If they mentor you, that’s already a win.
10:21 – 11:21
Gab: We encourage our students to add testimonials to build credibility. These can be displayed on SEOWorkout.com as part of their portfolio, which also boosts E-E-A-T (Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness).
11:22 – 12:12
Gelo: You could even create a landing page linking your profile to your portfolio or site. But let’s go back what are the essential elements of an SEO portfolio?
12:12 – 13:41
Gab: Start with an executive summary. Customize it per client to explain how you can help solve their specific problem. Then include your SEO background, followed by detailed case studies.
13:41 – 14:11
Gelo: Include before-and-after data.
Gab: Yes—don’t forget to screenshot the "before" state of a site. I’ve made that mistake. It helps to visually show improvements.
14:21 – 15:04
Gelo: Save testimonials whether from LinkedIn, Upwork, email, or chat. Don’t forget to screenshot. Even show your workflow or process visually, like a framework or arrow diagram.
15:04 – 16:10
Gelo: Let’s summarize what to include:
Executive summaryCase studiesTools usedSample deliverablesTestimonialsSEO process/frameworkCertificationsContact info16:11 – 17:01
Gab: Yes, don’t forget contact details, some people forget to include them. A simple email, social link, or QR code works.
17:15 – 18:17
Gab: Storytelling is key. Your portfolio should show not just what you did but how it helped the client. Use a compelling narrative to explain your role and impact.
18:17 – 19:46
Gelo: Just like in copywriting, your portfolio should evoke emotion and clarity. It’s not just about saying “I increased traffic by 400%.” Talk about how that helped the business.
20:07 – 21:35
Gab: Tailor your strategy to the client. For local SEO, focus on leads via Google Business Profile. For e-commerce, focus on product and collection page traffic and ROI.
21:35 – 22:12
Gelo: Your portfolio should match the client’s KPIs. Otherwise, they won’t see the value in things like PageSpeed improvements if their priority is link building.
22:47 – 24:25
Gab: I mainly use Google Sheets (for free) and Canva. Canva now allows you to publish your portfolio in “public view,” and you can even track who viewed it.
24:27 – 25:02
Gelo: Canva even lets you build websites with their templates.
Gab: Yup. And once you gain more experience, build your own personal site to showcase everything.
25:17 – 26:11
Gelo: Other tools you can try:
Notion for slick layoutsNotch for portfolio templatesLinkedIn (use featured posts for case studies)Calendly or Google’s appointment schedulerLoom or Komodo Dex for video case studies26:11 – 27:40
Gelo: These tools help you present your work professionally. You can even record short videos explaining your case studies and embed them into your portfolio.
27:41 – 28:15
Gelo: Let’s talk about common beginner mistakes.
Gab: One mistake is not having a clear strategy or first slide. A hybrid portfolio-proposal with custom insights for a potential client can go a long way.
28:15 – 29:33
Gab: Another mistake is a poor layout. Use templates and aim for niche-specific portfolios like SaaS or e-commerce, so the content is relevant to the client’s industry.
29:37 – 30:21
Gelo: Also, don’t go overboard with jargon. Clients won’t always understand terms like “hreflang directive” or “canonical inconsistencies.”
30:38 – 31:12
Gab: Lastly, don’t forget to include contact details. Even just a QR code that links to your Upwork or Facebook profile works.
31:12 – 31:37
Gelo: That wraps up our kwentuhan on SEO portfolios.
Gab: I run weekly webinars at SEOWorkout to share new strategies and updates.
Gelo: Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, and Spotify. Until next time, bye!
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Bringing in an intern for your SEO agency? It's not as easy as it sounds. Most agencies rush to hire because they’re overloaded but without a plan, that intern ends up lost, copying AI content, or stuck doing tasks that teach them nothing.
In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo get real about the right way to hire interns from knowing when you’re truly ready to bring someone in, to making sure you actually have something worth teaching. They share the hard truths about delegation, the red flags of internship programs gone wrong, and how to create an environment where interns grow and might even turn into future full-time team members.
Transcript Summary:
00:00 – 01:03
Gab & Gelo
Gab introduces the episode's topic: Hiring your first SEO intern.
They decide to tackle it from two angles:
For agency owners hiring interns
For aspiring interns
01:07 – 02:41
Gab
Before hiring, ask: Why do you want an intern?
Internships help others get hands-on experience.
Ensure tasks are clear and manageable.
Differentiate freelance interns vs. school-accredited internships (which often have stricter requirements like office presence or business registration).
02:43 – 05:12
Gelo & Gab
Gelo asks: Should you hire only when you have repeatable processes?
Gab agrees.
Gab shares his real estate SEO experience, where SOPs helped with delegating work (e.g., content uploading).
Hiring without SOPs leads to confusion and inefficiencies if someone leaves.
05:16 – 06:03
Gelo
Gelo suggests creating video SOPs and checklists for guidance.
Having accessible tools (even paid ones) signals readiness to hire.
06:11 – 07:10
Gab
Most SEO tasks can be delegated if there’s a clear SOP.
Avoid giving complex strategies.
Interns can do basic audits, suggest meta tags, etc., with proper tools and guidance.
07:22 – 08:26
Gelo & Gab
Interns can help with prospecting and vetting leads.
Avoid letting them handle brand-sensitive communication unless they’re trained.
08:26 – 09:09
Gab & Gelo
It depends. Gab prefers handling back-end access himself.
If tasks are basic (e.g., updating pages), limited access might be okay.
Warns about site breakage risks from unintended clicks or updates.
09:42 – 10:03
Gab & Gelo
Only assign client-facing roles if the intern has prior experience (e.g., sales).
Otherwise, limit them to internal or admin tasks.
10:12 – 11:10
Gab
Interns start by setting up their own WordPress site.
Depending on their strengths (design, grammar, etc.), they’re assigned to specific SEO areas.
Weekly learning stages are implemented before assigning real client tasks.
11:14 – 12:14
Gab & Gelo
Interns are assigned based on their displayed strengths and interest.
Gab watches if they’re passionate about their work even if it’s not perfect.
12:15 – 13:02
Gelo & Gab
Interns first observe or do sample tasks (e.g., 10 lead prospects).
Only after they show accuracy are they given more responsibility.
13:09 – 15:26
Gelo & Gab
Important to explain not just the “how,” but the “why” of SEO strategies.
Gab includes summaries in SOPs explaining what the task is for (e.g., internal linking = better crawlability).
Keyword research is the hardest to teach because it requires understanding business goals and user intent.
15:34 – 19:14
Gelo & Gab
Big concern: interns relying too heavily on ChatGPT and copying templates.
Gab emphasizes context and personal thinking when using AI tools.
Gelo warns that overreliance damages industry reputation and individual growth.
20:18 – 22:03
Gab
Curiosity and resourcefulness are essential.
Communication and time management help when dealing with clients and task prioritization.
Interns must manage time well and know when to pause redundant tasks (like excessive lead gen).
22:04 – 25:01
Gelo & Gab
Interns should be open to feedback and admit when they don’t know something.
Proactiveness and curiosity help solve more SEO problems.
Clients appreciate when SEOs go beyond tasks (e.g., noticing missing reviews on GMB).
26:03 – 28:11
Gelo & Gab
Yes. Gab has hired interns who showed initiative and consistency.
Some interns don’t take it seriously, just aiming for a certificate.
Genuine effort stands out and leads to real opportunities.
28:15 – 29:30
Gab
Gab shares how his internship mindset and enrolling in Glenn Dimandal’s bootcamp shaped his journey.
It opened his eyes to agency-level processes and helped him build his own agency.
29:39 – 30:14
Gab
Mistake: relying too much on one intern.
Learning: always build SOPs and have backups.
30:23 – 31:28
Gab & Gelo
Not hiring at the moment due to current intern load.
Will announce new internship openings in their Facebook groups: SEO Workout & Local SEO Masterclass.
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In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo get real about the mental side of working in SEO. They share their personal experiences, the struggles that come with learning on the job, and why it’s okay not to have all the answers. Whether you're just starting or already years into your SEO career, this episode will remind you that self-doubt is part of the process and it doesn’t have to hold you back.
Impostor syndrome is that inner voice that makes you question if you're really good enough, even when the work says you are. It’s the fear of being “found out,” the pressure to always know everything, and the constant comparison to others in the industry. If you’ve ever felt this in your SEO journey, you are not alone.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 00:24
Gab and Gelo kick off the episode by introducing the topic: Impostor Syndrome in SEO. Gelo shares how this topic hits close to home for him and suspects Gab experiences it too. They’ve touched on it before, but this time, they’re diving deeper.
00:24 – 01:39
They talk about how impostor syndrome isn’t unique to SEO professionals even celebrities like Tom Hanks and Serena Williams have it. But in SEO, it’s particularly common because the industry changes so fast. Missing just a month of updates can make you feel out of the loop.
01:39 – 02:46
Gab shares that social media plays a role. Seeing peers post wins and case studies can either inspire or make you feel like you're falling behind. This FOMO triggers impostor syndrome making you question your knowledge and skills.
02:52 – 04:25
Gelo explains how transitioning into new roles (like team lead) can make anyone feel like an impostor. Gab agrees and adds that this feeling is part of growing. Over time, you realize it’s all part of learning and getting better.
04:38 – 05:47
SEO doesn’t have a fixed rulebook. What works today might not work tomorrow. Gelo calls this the “black box effect”. Because of this uncertainty, it’s easy to feel like you’re faking it even when you're doing everything right.
06:07 – 07:48
Gab opens up about how even with experience, long campaigns with inconsistent results make him feel unsure. He shares how working across different niches means nothing feels "standard," which adds to the pressure but also helps him grow as a strategist.
07:48 – 09:11
Gelo asks if it's normal to feel afraid to offer SEO services, especially when you’re still studying. Gab says yes and even praises students who land clients while still learning. It’s harder to learn when you don’t have real-world implementation, so these students are doing it right.
09:13 – 11:01
They talk about being transparent with clients if you’re still learning. Gelo highlights the importance of managing expectations especially when businesses rely on their websites to make a living. Gab adds that some clients are even supportive, providing learning resources.
12:07 – 13:22
For those without clients yet, Gelo suggests starting with lower rates and focusing on building case studies. The real goal at this stage is experience and testimonials, not high pay. Being upfront about your skills helps manage expectations and builds trust.
13:35 – 15:37
Gab shares that it’s okay to offer free or trial-based work to build a portfolio, as long as there’s honesty and mutual respect. It’s not about promoting free labor it’s about learning and building rapport early in your freelancing career.
15:39 – 17:07
Gelo asks if it's better to niche down when starting. Gab says it depends. If your first exposure is to a certain industry (like real estate), it’s natural to continue there. But for others, it’s about exploring which niche feels most comfortable and enjoyable to optimize.
7:11 – 18:07
Gelo encourages new SEOs to admit when they don’t know something then figure it out later. Having a learner’s mindset beats pretending to know everything. There’s no shame in saying, “I’ll get back to you.”
18:07 – 20:06
Even seasoned SEOs like Gab still feel impostor syndrome especially when they're behind on updates or see students sharing more than them. Gelo adds that the feeling evolves over time: from doubting your knowledge to wondering if your methods are still valid.
20:17 – 21:11
Gelo asks how Gab handles being the point person in SEO discussions. Gab admits it’s tough. You have to sound confident but also know when to say, “I’ll check and get back to you.” It’s important to stay humble and collaborative.
21:12 – 23:28
Gelo leans heavily on data when making decisions or recommendations. He stresses the importance of having backup resources, especially when facing urgent SEO questions. Meetings can be nerve-wracking, but data helps you stand your ground.
23:28 – 25:01
Gab reminds listeners to double-check advice before sharing it with clients. Even small changes like uploading a sitemap can have a big impact on high-traffic websites. Always verify before acting especially in SEO where one move can shift results.
25:04 – 26:28
Gab shares that embracing your weaknesses is key. Instead of hiding from what you don’t know, admit it and work on it. SEO is a constant treadmill sometimes it feels like you’re not moving, but you’re actually building stamina and strength day by day.
26:28 – 29:05
There’s a flip side: people who think they know everything. Gelo warns against this mindset. Instead of clinging to ego, stay curious. Keep testing, validating, and being open to learning — even if you’ve been doing SEO for years.
29:05 – 30:02
Gelo wraps up by emphasizing how fast-paced SEO is. Take a few months off and you might feel left behind. The key is staying connected, curious, and adaptable.
30:02 – 30:40
Gelo hints at a future free eBook for newbies and reminds listeners to follow SEO Kwentuhan on YouTube and Spotify. No major announcements yet but stay tuned!
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In today’s fast-changing digital world, being good at SEO alone isn’t enough. In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo talk about what it really means to become a multi-skilled marketer. They share real experiences, practical tips, and honest insights on how to stay relevant, especially in the age of AI. From content marketing and automation to building mini tools and learning paid ads, this episode is packed with advice for marketers who want to grow their skillset and stay ahead of the curve.
Whether you're just starting out in SEO or looking to scale your agency, this conversation will help you figure out what skills to add, how to balance learning while working, and why adapting fast is the key to long-term success.
Transcript Summary
[00:07 – 00:14]
Gab welcomes listeners to a new episode of SEO Kwentuhan, where the hosts explore the more relatable, lighter side of working in SEO.
[00:16 – 01:08]
Gab shares details from his recent vacation in Surigao City, his second visit to Mindanao. He also attended the Digital Impact Philippines conference and mentioned that future editions might move to more accessible cities like Cebu or Davao due to their strong freelancer communities.
[01:30 – 05:49]
The hosts dive into the main topic: being a multi-skilled marketer in the age of AI. Gab explains that SEO is still relevant, but visibility now goes beyond Google—it includes forums, job sites, and social platforms. Today’s employers often look for SEO pros with added skills like content creation, web design, or development.
[06:15 – 08:37]
Gab suggests that once you're about 80% confident in your current skill set, it’s a good time to branch out. He shares his own progression from technical SEO to link building, and then into areas like email and social media marketing.
[08:59 – 10:30]
Gelo notes how AI has shifted us from simply gathering knowledge to applying it effectively. Gab adds that many agency owners started by getting clients first, then learning along the way—highlighting that adaptability is what separates top performers.
[10:56 – 11:32]
Gab recommends content marketing as the most valuable skill to pair with SEO. Being able to write and optimize content is highly in demand, especially if you know how to use AI tools to support creation.
[12:05 – 15:54]
The conversation shifts to the value of tools like Zapier and Make. Gelo and Gab discuss how these tools let marketers build interactive features like calculators or quizzes without coding—enhancing SEO campaigns or even becoming stand-alone products.
[15:54 – 18:02]
Gelo emphasizes learning tools like ChatGPT and Gemini. Gab agrees and adds that data analysis skills remain essential. Even with AI, businesses still need people who can interpret and explain data insights.
[18:21 – 20:17]
The hosts stress the importance of writing detailed prompts when using AI. Defining tone, structure, and goals can significantly improve output. Gab mentions tools that now build entire workflows from just a single prompt.
[20:32 – 25:17]
Gab shares how he used to learn while doing client work—studying strategies and applying them immediately. Now, he records what he learns and converts them into SOPs. Gelo adds a practical tip: block 1–2 hours in your calendar for learning and treat it like a non-negotiable meeting.
[25:26 – 27:29]
Gelo asks how to move beyond SEO into broader digital strategy. Gab advises focusing on social media for local clients and combining SEO with paid ads for global campaigns. He mentions experimenting with Facebook ads for his own brand as a way to learn firsthand.
[27:30 – 31:22]
Gab shares his 3–5 year vision: expanding the agency while maintaining focus. He wants his team to handle different platforms (e.g., Shopify, Squarespace) and niches but admits that keeping up with constant change is a challenge.
[31:52 – 32:53]
Gab reflects on advice from a former boss about learning to sell AI. He now understands that growth requires not just tools and skills, but also building a solid team and network. Attending and speaking at conferences boosts visibility and credibility.
[32:53 – 34:51]
Gelo points out that SOPs are only effective if you understand the work behind them. Being knowledgeable about adjacent areas like email, paid ads, or design allows for better documentation and team coordination. Gab agrees, sharing that he borrows ideas from top experts and customizes them to suit his workflows.
[34:51 – 36:01]
Gelo wraps up the episode and thanks listeners for tuning in. He invites everyone to join the next episode of SEO Kwentuhan.
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Staying in the SEO industry for the long haul takes more than just technical skills. It requires adaptability, a strong mindset, and a willingness to keep learning even when things get tough. In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo get real about what it actually takes to build a lasting career in SEO. They talk about personal experiences, early career struggles, client challenges, and how they managed to stay motivated despite burnout and self-doubt.
If you’ve ever questioned whether SEO is for you, this episode is worth a listen. Gab shares how showing up even when he wanted to quit helped him build confidence and consistency. Gelo opens up about the value of soft skills, being part of a supportive community, and solving real business problems. Together, they highlight the importance of staying grounded in fundamentals like technical SEO and keyword research, while also embracing change and exploring your own path, whether that means freelancing, going full time, or building an agency.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 02:02
Gab opens the episode by welcoming listeners. Gelo reminisces about their early episodes and highlights how far the podcast has come. They introduce the main topic: How to last in the SEO industry, especially in the age of AI. Both observe that some SEO beginners are losing motivation, and that this topic is timely for those still exploring or entering the industry.
02:02 – 05:01
Gelo asks Gab about the most important mindset for SEO longevity.
Gab answers that adaptability is key. He shares an analogy from a video by Russ Yuson: if someone offered you $10 million to learn piano by December, you’d find a way. That’s the kind of mindset you need—willingness to learn and adapt, especially in a field where algorithm updates and new tools are constant.
Gab also clarifies the difference between fundamental practices (like title tags) and outdated methods (like low-quality guest posting), emphasizing that openness to change is essential.
05:02 – 07:04
Gelo expands on Gab’s point by encouraging a "student forever" mindset. He stresses that SEO should be treated as a craft, not just a technical skill you master once. With continuous changes in tools and algorithms, you need to keep refining your knowledge. He also points out that going for shortcuts isn't sustainable—consistency matters more.
07:15 – 14:38
Gelo asks Gab if he ever wanted to give up.
Gab shares three major points in his career:
Early freelancing daysWhen he became an SEO managerWhen he started his agencyAt each stage, self-doubt crept in. But he kept showing up. Over time, tasks that once felt overwhelming became easier through repetition and practice.
Gelo adds his own struggles—failed campaigns, client churn, burnout—and how he overcame them by focusing on soft skills, joining a community, and staying accountable. Having support from others, like Gab, helped him stay in the game.
They both agree: showing up and being part of a positive, welcoming SEO community makes all the difference.
14:38 – 15:22
Gab and Gelo talk about professionalism when clients offboard.
Gab suggests giving clients extra value even when they’re leaving, like a 6-month strategy.
Gelo shares that some clients who left still referred others to him later. The key takeaway: do good work, maintain good relationships, and you might see rewards later on.
15:22 – 18:39
Gab emphasizes fundamentals as the core SEO skills that don’t go away—especially technical SEO and understanding Google’s documentation (Search Central). He reassures listeners that SEO is still in demand and worth pursuing.
Gelo adds keyword research and content structuring to the list. Tools evolve, but foundational skills in solving searcher intent and writing effective content remain essential.
18:39 – 21:32
Gelo asks: do you need to be a jack-of-all-trades in SEO?
Gab says it depends on your goals. If you’re freelancing, it’s fine to specialize. But if you’re building an agency, it’s good to know a bit of everything so you can delegate effectively. You don’t need 100% mastery—just enough to understand how each area works.
Gelo shares how he started broad, then specialized. His strength turned out to be strategy. He now builds playbooks and hires specialists for execution. He encourages others to start wide, then go deep into what fits them best.
21:32 – 29:11
Gab advises beginners to build their own site to safely test SEO strategies instead of experimenting on client websites.
He also talks about building a personal brand—sharing consistently about a topic like AI or automation helps establish authority and trust, even with Google.
Gelo reflects on his early approach to content—he focused on solving customer problems. He got ideas by asking customer support teams about common client questions and then answered those in blog posts. This helped boost rankings while making content genuinely useful.
29:11 – 33:50
Gab says that hitting a milestone (SEO manager, 6-digit income) made him realize SEO was his long-term path. He enjoys challenges and finds meaning in growing personally while helping others grow too.
Gelo shares his work history—from Jollibee to casino work—before landing in SEO. He saw that SEO offered freedom, income potential, and a place for problem-solvers. Despite opportunities to go back to higher-paying casino jobs, he stayed because he found purpose and challenge in SEO.
33:50 – 38:59
Gab shares his internal motivator: thinking about what he wants to achieve and staying aligned with his purpose. Even when things get tough, he reminds himself to keep showing up. He also asks for spiritual guidance when he feels unmotivated.
Gelo talks about doing small side projects to keep things exciting. For him, solving new problems and seeing the impact of his work—like helping clients grow—fuels his motivation. Knowing that real businesses and people benefit from what he does gives deeper meaning to his work.
38:59
They wrap up the episode with laughs, inside jokes, and encouragement to keep going even when it’s tough. Gab plugs their Facebook group and weekly webinars. They invite listeners to follow SEO Kwentuhan on Facebook, Spotify, YouTube, and at SEOKwentuhan.com.
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Google just changed the game again and SEOs everywhere are paying attention. In the latest episode of SEOKwentuhan, Gab and Gelo break down what Google’s new AI Mode means for search results, rankings, and how people use the internet.
This is not another "SEO is dead" conversation. It is a practical look at how AI generated answers, closed loop search experiences, and changes in user behavior are reshaping the way we work. The episode tackles real questions like what happens to organic traffic, how to adapt your content, and which metrics to focus on now.
If you are an SEO, marketer, or content creator trying to stay ahead, this episode is worth your time. Here is a quick breakdown of the key takeaways from the conversation.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 01:17
Gab: Hello and welcome to a new episode of SEO Kwentuhan where we talk about the lighter side of SEO. And this is a hot topic that we're going to talk about today. Nice. Our topic is always hot but this is hotter than the previous ones.
Gab: Our topic today is about the AI mode that Google released. How many days ago was that? I think it was 1 or 2 days ago. This is really new.
00:30 – 01:17
Gelo: And just a disclaimer, this is just an opinion on what might happen. Because this is not yet available in other countries, right? It's only in the US. It's only in the US, I think, this beta test.
Gelo: So, it's just there. So, we're guessing now. But our guess has backup data. The ones that are said to be even better than us.
01:17 – 03:07
Gab: Open AI. Yes, that's it. The one that had an emergency with Google. They launched a Search Lab.
Gab: It's like a test. You'll sign up first to use it. I signed up there before and I'm using the AI Overview on my account. If you'll notice, on your other accounts before, on Google, the AI Overview doesn't show up.
Gab: So you need to sign up for Search Labs. But now, Google automatically rolled out an AI Overview especially in the U.S. So they already have a tab. If you search on Google, there are images, videos, news. Next to that, there's an AI mode.
Gelo: That's my observation now. Even if it's on VPN, sir, you won't see this? Or if you're on VPN, you'll see this? I haven't tried it yet, but I think if you have VPN, you have a chance.
Gab: Because it says, any US-based search, they will come up with something. That's what I read. So it's like what happens in AI mode, it's like you're inside... For example, you have a question and it's like you're in a closed loop, you're just there, you're not going out.
Gelo: Is that right?
Gab: Correct, correct. That's right.
Gab: So Google is automatically answering you. So it's summarizing everything, right? If you'll notice, when you're talking to ChatGPT, he'll remember what you talked about before. Even if you don't say your name, sometimes you'll be prompted to include your name, he'll recognize you when you search for another new query.
03:07 – 03:31
Gab: So that's the same with AI mode. You'll have personalized. How big is this server? I mean, Google, of course, but for this AI mode, it's probably separate.
Gelo: It's a bigger data center. That's what I'm thinking, maybe a whole barangay.
03:31 – 04:39
Gelo: Anyway, how do you think this AI mode will affect our SEO strategies? How can we recalibrate?
Gelo: Alright. Well, I have to admit that the AI mode has a huge effect. fully rolled out. Because SEOs are starting to panic about what they can do after.
Gab: Because from the traditional type where you'll put keywords on your page, you'll target a topic, then you'll be in the top 100, right? Then in the top 10, you'll have a chance to click. Now, in AI mode, it's really... It's even harder now because we don't know what the ranking factors are yet.
Gab: Unlike before, we now have a clue of what the ranking factors are so we can get out of the traditional search. That's why we practice our SEO skills so we can learn how to help our clients. But in AI Overview, it's like a new method or optimization that we need to do, and maybe more advanced or more enhanced processes than what we were doing before. So that's what I think can happen here.
04:39 – 05:12
Gab: As much as possible, you should be in what they call Position Zero. Before, it was just featured snippets. Now, it's AI Overview. So that's your aim.
Gab: Right now, we're still experiencing the AI overview. But this AI mode, it's a featured snippet that's interactive. So, I don't know if we'll have another battle here. The strategy-wise, I don't know if you need to...
05:13 – 06:24
Gelo: I used to preach this to my students, shoutouts to my students. We will think of it as a marketer. We should really think of it that way.
Gelo: For example, some people don't even know about ICP. I don't know everything but there are some. They are focusing on the easy fixes. The easy fixes on websites that AI can fix now, it's easy to do now.
Gelo: The metadata, stuff like that. Strategies will have a huge impact. I'm a bit scared so I'm hesitating right now but when I see this future, will our work become obsolete? That's what I'm thinking right now.
Gelo: Is this Armageddon? Is this like what they say, SEO is dying thing? I'm at a point where I'm like, what are we going to do next year? What are we going to do next next year?
06:38 – 08:15
Gelo: Because things happen so fast. So that's it, sir. I think Google is just trying to balance what's happening. Let's just admit it.
Gab: The optimization that we're doing before went a bit wrong because there's already an AI. Let's say, even in topic ideation, we sometimes reach 30 minutes to 1 hour to generate 10 articles. Now, in 3 minutes, you can already do that. as long as your prompting is correct.
Gab: So, what I'm saying here is that Google is trying to balance the capabilities of SEOs. It's not really correlated, but that's what I see. It's trying to balance that it's easy to do SEO now, but let's make it harder so that you won't just do SEO. You need to have an omnichannel, just like what you said.
Gab: Or to learn other skills. That's why now, I'm seeing potential PPC ads. Maybe this will have an advantage in the future when Google added new sections or new features. Because it's continuously updating.
08:18 – 10:12
Gab: I'll just add on to what will affect the SEO strategies. I saw a post. In local SEO, it's still okay as a niche. Because you're still pulling out the data from local pack in GMB.
Gelo: So I think it's still okay. I agree with Anya. Speaking of... I'm not saying everything, but mostly what I see now is that SMEs, small to medium sized enterprises, are producing blogs.
Gelo: Mostly garbage. Sorry to say, not all of it. But I see it because it's easy to do. You can publish a lot of...
Gelo: Yes, in bulk. Then let's say you can't publish 1,000 in a day, then I'll just divide it little by little. But you're still releasing garbage.
Gelo: So in short, what I want to say is that the World Wide Web is becoming overcrowded with garbage. And maybe this is also one of the steps that Google is doing, as Sir said, to level the playing field. of everyone, not just the SEO, the content writer.
10:13 – 10:56
Gelo: I don't know, if I'm right, correct me if I'm wrong, and this is an opinionated view. Affiliate marketing will have a hard time here and the publication websites that are just publications without real branding, I mean real business behind it. So that's one of the things that will affect this AI mode a lot. And it gives me the chills.
Gab: That's right. I can also see the data related to that and there are already changes. So this really started when OpenAI came out. A lot of updates happened that led to that for sure.
10:57 – 11:17
Gab: One of the strategies on content creation, I don't know how you detect AI when you use AI. Because I admit that we use AI in my team for creating content. But there's a net behind it, like proofreading, fact-checking, we do that. But this time, you should be more original in the content you're doing.
11:30 – 12:49
Gab: Now, organic traffic is really going down. I noticed this on the websites that you handle that are all informational. They really get a big chunk of traffic from organic. But on the other hand, the transactional keywords are not affected.
Gab: Money. What happens here with our clients, instead of before, our priority or primary metrics were heavy, the traffic, now what we're doing is mostly conversion,
Gelo: Priority.
Gelo: It's still being reported, yes, but we're spending less time on the traffic that goes down, the pages that need to be refreshed. So as long as the article is related to your product or service, for me, it's better to prioritize it. especially the bottom-of-the-funnel keywords that have the potential to give conversions to your client.
Gab: You should focus on that. I can see from the data that 20% of organic traffic went down. That's a lot. if we're talking about year-over-year.
Gab: But as long as you're saying it and you're transparent to the client, they'll understand what's going on. Because we're not holding onto the fact that the behavior is changing, the search engine is changing. What's important is that we're guiding them on what they need to know.
13:10 – 14:33
Gab: Like this AI mode, so you can get strategies here or additional information that you can share with your client. Sir, I see here that the marketing funnel It will become a pyramid? It will become a pyramid. That's where we'll focus on.
Gab: The bottom of the funnel will be ready to buy. That's what will happen. The funnel will be upside down. We'll focus on money-making pages.
Gab: One of the shifts that I'm doing, I'll explain this. What I'm doing now in the team is to do product-led SEO. Maybe it's better if you read the book or have an idea about what product-led SEO is about. Because now, you should be focusing on that.
Gab: When I say product, for example, services. So your client's product is services. So you should be focusing on that. Like what Sir said, you should focus on both or bottom of the funnel.
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In this episode of SEOKwentuhan, Gab and Gelo tackle a common issue in the freelance and VA world: Filipino SEOs are delivering strong results for clients abroad, yet still face low rates and undervaluation.
Filipino SEO professionals are getting noticed across the globe for their skills, work ethic, and adaptability. From freelance gigs to full-time roles with international agencies, more and more Pinoys are helping businesses rank, grow, and compete online. But despite this growing demand, one big issue remains—many are still being paid less than they deserve.
If you’ve ever questioned your rates, felt undervalued, or just want to better understand the industry dynamics, this episode gives real talk, useful insights, and advice you can use.
Transcript Summary
(00:00 - 00:41)
Gab welcomes everyone back to the podcast after a long break. He introduces the main topic: Why Filipino SEO professionals are in demand but still underpaid. He notes this is a recurring concern in VA groups and affects other freelance specialties too.
(00:50 - 02:14)
Gab explains how wage differences between countries (e.g., US vs. PH minimum wage) make outsourcing to Filipinos attractive for Western companies. He shares personal experience about how foreign agencies offer rates only slightly better than local PH agencies, using local benchmarks to justify low offers.
(02:15 - 03:45)
Gelo cites statistics showing that Filipinos are 70–80% cheaper than their Western counterparts and still deliver quality results. The Philippines ranks #1 globally for virtual assistants, with SEO being a top outsourced skill.
(03:46 - 05:10)
Gelo explains factors including time zone alignment, cultural compatibility, and strong English communication skills. He points out that many clients require video introductions to gauge fluency, and Filipinos tend to excel here despite being "barok" at times.
(05:11 - 07:36)
Gab emphasizes traits like strong work ethic, adaptability, clear communication, and resourcefulness (e.g., finding free tools). Filipinos tend to go the extra mile, solve problems quickly, and adjust culturally to clients’ behavior.
(07:37 - 08:16)
Gab notes how being natural problem solvers and having high English literacy (96%) adds to their appeal. These strengths make communication and implementation smoother in international projects.
(08:16 - 09:06)
Gab and Gelo discuss the Filipino trait of adjusting to how clients treat them—being patient, resourceful, hardworking, and resilient, similar to OFWs in other industries.
(09:16 - 10:50)
Gab argues it’s systemic, especially for beginners who think $3/hour is already generous. Many experienced SEOs also stay in comfort zones, refusing to raise rates even with a decade of experience and proven results.
(10:51 - 12:00)
Gab clarifies that while there may be a lot of SEOs, not all deliver real results. The demand is still strong, but the market includes many task-doers versus true strategists.
(12:00 - 13:15)
Gab shares a strategy: start with a lower trial rate, show results, then either raise rates or ask for performance-based incentives. He warns that even with results, some clients will undervalue the SEO’s contribution.
(13:16 - 14:33)
Determine your rate by looking at peers with similar years of experience and skills. Client-facing communication and negotiation are crucial if you want to increase your value and income.
(14:34 - 15:45)
New SEOs often lack negotiation skills. Gab emphasizes the need to stand your ground, prove your worth through past results, and avoid underpricing if you’re delivering value.
(15:46 - 17:33)
Gab explains this fear stems from the uncertainty of consistent results and the lack of confidence. Solution: create packages per client type, understand client budget ranges, and study your niche deeply.
(17:34 - 20:35)
Filipino SEOs often underprice because they fear sounding incompetent in discovery calls. Gab encourages practicing communication and owning your SEO identity. If you’re doing the job, you are not an impostor.
(20:36 - 24:44)
Gab shares how foreign clients value SEO more than local clients. In PH, SEO is often undervalued or bundled with web development or social media, especially for SMEs. Foreign clients look for results and ROI.
(24:45 - 28:03)
Gab urges a culture of integrity and skill-sharing. Communities like theirs aim to educate and uplift Filipino SEOs, discourage dishonest practices, and build a professional reputation globally.
(28:04 - 29:10)
Gab explains that their podcast and community events real-talk issues to prevent others from repeating mistakes. Sharing case studies, strategies, and lessons helps everyone grow, even if others are more skilled.
(29:11 - 30:30)
Gab says: Don’t rush pricing high. Upskill continuously. Add new knowledge in AI, analytics, and other areas. Build your value before demanding high rates.
(30:31 - 32:19)
Gab advocates for outcome-based pricing over hourly billing. SEOs should see themselves as partners, not just skilled laborers. Present the value you bring to the client’s business, then negotiate accordingly.
(32:20 - 34:04)
Gab admits he kept low rates for long-term clients due to loyalty. His solution: delegate tasks and focus only on high-value work himself to justify his desired rate.
(34:05 - 35:51)
Gab stresses the importance of reporting results in terms of ROI. SEOs must translate traffic growth into business gains—this is the difference between a $3/hour VA and a $2,000/month strategic partner.
(35:52 - 37:16 - End)
Gab plugs his weekly webinars under SEO Workout, focusing on demos and practical learning like keyword research for SaaS. Gelo encourages listeners to follow them on social platforms and thanks everyone for tuning in.
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Ever wondered if doing SEO for local clients is really that different from working with international ones? In this episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gelo and Gab unpack the real differences between doing SEO for Philippine-based clients versus international ones. From client expectations and pay gaps to search behaviors and strategy, they dig into what it really feels like to work on both sides. This episode is honest, relatable, and especially useful if you’re a Filipino freelancer or SEO specialist trying to navigate both local and global markets.
What becomes clear as the conversation unfolds? It's not just about money—although yes, international rates are much higher. It’s also about how clients approach SEO. Foreign businesses often already understand the value of SEO and come with solid processes, while many PH clients still rely heavily on social media and need more guidance on SEO basics. Whether you're dealing with long-tail keywords for a local tire shop or international hreflang tags for a global brand, this episode covers the mindset shifts and tactical differences you need to know.
Transcript Summary
00:00 - 00:31
Gab: Welcomes listeners to SEO Kwentuhan, a podcast on SEO and freelancing.
Gelo: Introduces the topic: “SEO in the Philippines vs Abroad”, questioning whether SEO standards are really different.
00:32 - 01:25
Gelo: Shares his experience, mostly with foreign clients, though his past agency was PH-based but catered to global clients.
Gab: Adds that while some PH clients target global markets, their business operations and SEO demands vary.
01:25 - 03:11
Gelo: Emphasizes the payment difference, estimating PH rates are less than 30% of foreign rates.
Gab and Gelo: Agree that foreign clients are more SEO-knowledgeable, while PH clients often need more education on processes and metrics.
Foreign clients often provide the SEO process; PH clients rely on the SEO specialist to lead.
03:18 - 04:13
Gab: Notes that popular marketing channels differ: PH leans toward social media, while foreign businesses prioritize organic search more.
PH companies often come from traditional marketing, slowly transitioning to digital.
04:21 - 06:21
Gab: Clarifies that local SEO dominates PH due to limited geography.
International SEO involves more research, language variations, and different user behavior.
Strategies like hreflang are irrelevant locally but critical for global clients.
06:21 - 07:07
Gelo: Points out that in the PH, people often rely on word-of-mouth or neighbors for services like plumbers, unlike in the West where even small services have SEO-optimized websites.
07:17 - 09:01
Gab: Explains that SEO is more useful for big industries or emergencies (e.g., locksmith, tires).
He gives real-world examples like Googling tire supply or Motolite battery delivery.
Filipinos tend to search on social media first before Google.
09:31 - 11:22
Gab: Says SEO explanations are similar, but pricing is harder to justify to PH clients.
Gelo: Adds that some international clients can be more difficult due to outdated knowledge or preconceived notions.
Both agree: Local clients often haggle or expect discounts, especially when familiar.
11:28 - 14:27
Gab: Believes foreign markets are 10 years ahead, with earlier exposure to SEO tools and strategies.
Gelo: Notes PH SEOs get backlinks mostly from webinars or events, unlike advanced strategies abroad.
Gab and Gelo: Mention BrightonSEO and technical expertise like data analytics, which are less common locally.
Many PH SEOs still work under managers vs. agency owners abroad who have more control and freedom to experiment.
14:41 - 15:14
Gab: Observes that individuals abroad can outrank big brands, thanks to level playing fields in Google’s algorithm.
In PH, big brands dominate, so smaller players are better off targeting long-tail keywords or social media like TikTok.
15:15 - 16:24
Gab: attributes the undervaluation not to lack of skill but to mindsets of business owners.
Many still see digital marketing as optional, relying on free or basic social media marketing.
Bigger PH companies understand ROI better, but most small/medium businesses still resist investing in SEO.
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Leading an in-house SEO team comes with a unique set of challenges. Unlike agency work, where specialists juggle multiple clients, in-house SEO requires a long-term strategy, cross-team collaboration, and the ability to adapt to changing search algorithms. In this recent episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Sir Jake Morales, an experienced SEO leader at Canva, shared his journey from link building to becoming a mentor, offering valuable insights on leadership, team dynamics, and strategy execution.
Throughout the discussion, Gab and Gelo explored what makes an effective SEO leader, how to manage conflicts in strategy, and what skills are essential for building a strong team. Sir Jake emphasized the importance of balancing technical expertise with leadership skills, ensuring that teams not only execute well but also grow professionally. If you’re an SEO specialist aspiring to lead a team or a current manager looking for ways to improve collaboration, this episode is packed with practical takeaways on mentorship, setting clear goals, and fostering a proactive team culture.
Transcript Summary
(00:00 - 01:57)
Gab: Welcomes listeners to the new episode of Lighter Topics of SEO and introduces a special guest, Sir Jake Morales.
Gab: Shares that Sir Jake was his first mentor when he started SEO in 2013, as his team lead or manager at the time.
Gelo: Acknowledges this and adds that Sir Jake was also someone he looked up to in the workplace whenever he had SEO-related questions.
Sir Jake: Greets the hosts and listeners, expressing gratitude for being invited to the podcast. He recalls working with Gab in 2013 when he was a supervisor, while Gab was a junior SEO. He also notes that he and Gelo currently work together under the same employer.
Gab: Remarks on how small the SEO industry is, to which Sir Jake agrees.
(02:08 - 13:42)
Gab: Kicks off the discussion by asking Sir Jake how he started his career in SEO.
Sir Jake: Explains that SEO is not typically taught in academic settings and is usually learned through professional experience or specialized training.
Before SEO:
Sir Jake: Began his career as a call center agent (2009-2010) before transitioning into copywriting.He recognized that writing was his strongest skill, leading him to pursue copywriting for a marketing agency.After losing his job, he was uncertain about his next steps.Discovery of SEO:
A friend introduced him to SEO and encouraged him to apply to an SEO agency in Makati.This was his first time hearing the term "SEO."The agency was newly established in the Philippines and specialized in white-label SEO services.First SEO Role – Link Builder (2010-2011):
Sir Jake was hired as a link builder, responsible for acquiring backlinks through directory submissions and blog commenting.He describes the early days of SEO, where link-building strategies focused on posting comments on forums and blogs.Transition to On-Page SEO:
Sir Jake moved from link building to on-page SEO, where he worked closely with web developers and content teams.Gab recalls that he initially applied for web development, but ended up working in on-page SEO, where he and Sir Jake crossed paths.They reminisce about the collaborative and fun work environment at the time.Growth & Career Progression:
Sir Jake explains how junior SEOs were structured differently back then but were heavily involved in technical SEO and project management.He spent 5 years in his first SEO agency, honing his expertise in various SEO disciplines.Moved to another SEO agency in 2015, where he was exposed to the broader SEO community and industry events.This second agency allowed him to network with top SEO professionals in the Philippines, where he learned new strategies and trends.Joining Canva (2019 - Present):
In 2019, Canva recruited Sir Jake for their SEO team.It was his first in-house SEO role, which required him to adapt from the client-based approach of agencies.Responsibilities evolved from team lead → senior specialist → team lead again, handling keyword research, copywriting, and technical SEO.He visited Canva’s Sydney headquarters three times, with one trip occurring just before the March 2020 lockdown.(15:39 - 18:37)
Gelo: Asks Sir Jake why he has remained in the SEO industry for 15 years.
Sir Jake: Shares that:
His SEO career grew alongside him, offering continuous learning opportunities.He experienced major algorithm updates like Google Panda & Penguin, which kept the industry exciting.Over time, he explored various SEO roles, from copywriter to strategist to mentor.SEO provided financial stability, career growth, and fulfillment.Gab: Agrees, noting that SEO challenges motivate professionals to keep learning and improving.
(20:06 - 31:31)
Gab: Asks Sir Jake to explain the key differences between an individual SEO specialist and a team lead.
SEO Specialist:
Focuses on expertise, execution, and technical skills.Must stay updated with algorithm changes and best practices.Often works independently or with minimal supervision.SEO Team Lead:
Balances mentorship, guidance, and team development.Ensures the success of the entire team, not just individual projects.Requires empathy, leadership, and decision-making skills.Gab: Shares that becoming a first-time manager was challenging, especially in teaching and transferring knowledge to others.
(31:32 - 40:41)
Sir Jake: Emphasizes two critical leadership qualities:
Empathy – Understanding team members, their needs, and their strengths.Direction & Firmness – Setting clear goals and vision while ensuring team alignment.Gab: Asks how to handle conflicts in SEO strategies within a team.
Sir Jake: suggests:
Encouraging open communication and discussions.Using collaborative documents (e.g., Google Docs) to compare and refine strategies.Experimenting with different approaches in a controlled environment to see what works best.(40:45 - 48:52)
Gab: Asks Sir Jake what qualities he looks for when hiring SEO professionals.
Top qualities:
Expertise – Strong SEO knowledge and skills.Ownership – Taking responsibility for tasks.Proactiveness – Taking initiative without waiting for instructions.Consistency – Delivering results reliably.(50:13 - 54:54)
Gab: Asks Sir Jake for his advice to aspiring SEO team leads.
Sir Jake shares:
Patience – SEO is fast-paced; managing teams takes time.Presence – Be available to support and guide your team.Continuous Learning – Stay updated with industry trends and best practices.Lead by Example – Your leadership style should reflect the team culture you want to build.(55:11 - End)
Fun segment: “Lights On or Lights Off” – Sir Jake prefers lights on for productivity and lights off for relaxation/gaming.Final Remarks – Gab & Gelo thank Sir Jake for sharing his insights.Listeners are encouraged to follow them on Facebook, YouTube, and Spotify.Don't forget to share and connect with our communities as well. Let's achieve success together!
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In the latest episode of SEO Kwentuhan, Gab and Gelo examine the transformative impact of artificial intelligence on SEO and white-collar jobs. They explore a spectrum of hot topics—from the rise of AI-powered search engines and autonomous AI agents to the nuances of workflow automation and deepfake innovations. With a blend of caution and excitement, the conversation dissects how AI is not only streamlining processes in digital marketing and content creation but also redefining what it means to work in a traditionally human-driven industry.
Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize the importance of balancing technical advancements with core human skills like creativity, communication, and critical thinking. They discuss how embracing new AI tools, while still mastering SEO fundamentals, can empower professionals to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving digital landscape. SEO specialists and white-collar professionals navigating the future of work will find that this insightful discussion offers a practical roadmap to harnessing AI’s potential while preserving the unique value of human ingenuity.
Transcript Summary
00:00 – 01:16
00:00 – 00:06 (Gab): Gab welcomes listeners to a new episode of “SEO Kwentuhan,” setting a light tone for the discussion.00:06 – 00:09 (Gelo): Gelo asks what the topic is for today.00:10 – 00:42 (Gab): Gab introduces the main theme: the latest AI trends and their effects on white-collar jobs. He clarifies what “white-collar” means by contrasting it with blue-collar work.00:42 – 00:55 (Gelo): Gelo elaborates that white-collar jobs involve less manual labor—reminding listeners that SEO (their field) falls into this category.00:55 – 01:16 (Gab & Gelo): Brief examples are given (e.g., accountancy, law, marketing, development) to underscore how the discussion is relevant to their work.01:16 – 03:04
01:16 – 01:38 (Gelo): Gelo invites Gab to share his opinion on AI—specifically within the SEO industry.01:39 – 02:32 (Gab): Gab reveals mixed feelings: he’s cautious about AI’s potential to disrupt jobs yet excited about the opportunities it opens up and the efficiency gains it promises.02:32 – 02:34 (Gab): He succinctly sums up that, for him, the benefits (the “advantage”) outweigh the fears.02:42 – 03:04 (Gelo): Gelo reassures listeners that this isn’t a fear-mongering session but rather an exploration of current trends and what they mean for white-collar work in SEO.03:08 – 04:43
03:08 – 03:27 (Gab): Gab begins predicting what might unfold in 2025, noting that while the future is uncertain, we can expect significant changes.03:29 – 03:29 (Gelo): Gelo interjects with his expectations.03:30 – 04:25 (Gab): Gab discusses a surge in AI-powered search engines, mentioning global competitors (like OpenAI and DeepSeek) and speculating on how these innovations might shift market share and user behavior.04:26 – 04:43 (Gab & Gelo): They briefly debate whether AI-driven search will quickly catch up or if traditional methods will continue to hold sway.04:47 – 06:11
04:47 – 05:20 (Gelo): Gelo observes that many people still prefer searching on their own—relying on “blue links” and familiar interfaces.05:20 – 06:04 (Gab): Gab contrasts this with AI’s speed, noting that while AI can deliver rapid results, users often trust traditional customer reviews and social media cues.06:04 – 06:11 (Gelo): Gelo adds an example: ChatGPT’s ability to script Google Maps to speed up tasks like finding restaurants.06:27 – 09:28
06:27 – 07:27 (Gab): Gab explains the concept of autonomous AI agents—tools that do more than just provide answers; they learn user preferences and can automate complex tasks.07:27 – 07:48 (Gelo): Gelo inquires about which platforms are being used for these AI agents.07:49 – 09:28 (Gab & Gelo): The conversation shifts to platforms like N8N (despite its complexity) and other tools that enable multi-agent workflows—where one AI handles keyword research and then passes tasks on (for example, to content creation or outreach agents).09:29 – 12:06
09:29 – 10:15 (Gab): Gab outlines how AI can automate entire content workflows—from keyword research to creating content briefs and even publishing directly to WordPress, streamlining the blog-post creation process.10:23 – 11:00 (Gelo): Gelo underscores that while such automation is possible, some caution is needed (e.g., ensuring quality and accuracy).11:22 – 12:02 (Gab & Gelo): Gab then brings up deepfakes as an emerging trend. He explains that with minimal input (like a picture or script), AI can generate realistic videos and interactive images, though this raises concerns about misuse and authenticity.12:07 – 16:45
12:07 – 13:41 (Gelo & Gab): The discussion turns to how AI is being embedded directly into SaaS products—examples include platforms like GitHub, Canva, and Google Sheets. Gab notes that nowadays, a SaaS without AI looks outdated.13:39 – 15:09 (Gelo & Gab): They touch on the buzz around next-generation models (like the rumored GPT-5) and enhancements in AI responsiveness (with features such as editable generated content).15:09 – 16:45 (Gelo): Gelo even references a tweet about Elon Musk’s playful remark on buying ChatGPT, highlighting the high stakes and rapid pace of AI development.16:45 – 18:49
16:45 – 17:38 (Gelo): Gelo introduces concerns about AI ethics and regulation—citing insights from industry veterans (such as an ex-Google officer) on the need to set boundaries for AI development.17:38 – 18:32 (Gab & Gelo): They debate how regulatory bodies might step in to prevent potential abuses (like harmful deepfakes) while still fostering innovation.18:32 – 18:49 (Gelo): The conversation briefly shifts as they discuss following AI influencers and thought leaders to stay informed on these evolving issues.18:49 – 31:52
18:49 – 21:05 (Gab & Gelo): The speakers stress that despite AI’s rapid advancement, mastering SEO fundamentals remains crucial. They emphasize that human creativity, communication, and judgment cannot be fully replaced.21:09 – 24:33 (Gab & Gelo): They discuss the need for “prompt engineering”—crafting precise commands for AI—and other technical skills (like low-code/no-code automation) to harness AI’s power effectively.24:34 – 25:05 (Gab): Gab highlights that while AI can generate creative outputs (even in art and design), the human touch is still key for authenticity.25:08 – 31:52 (Gab & Gelo): The dialogue continues on the importance of continuous learning and experimentation with new AI tools, ensuring that professionals stay ahead in a highly competitive and evolving industry.31:53 – 51:33
31:53 – 37:32 (Gab & Gelo): The focus shifts to freelancing and the gig economy. Gab shares how AI has transformed his own work on platforms like Upwork—enhancing profiles and speeding up tasks such as content research and case study creation.37:33 – 38:07 (Gab): They underline that while AI boosts productivity, it also intensifies competition among freelancers.38:09 – 40:23 (Gab & Gelo): The speakers discuss emerging job roles (for instance, AI prompt engineers and AI agent experts) and stress that real-world experience and human insight will continue to set professionals apart.40:39 – 45:06 (Gab & Gelo): Further reflections reveal that even as AI takes over repetitive tasks, leadership, mentorship, and the ability to inspire remain uniquely human qualities.51:34 – 1:02:03
51:34 – 52:18 (Gab): Gab summarizes the key takeaway: professionals must combine deep industry fundamentals with an openness to learn new AI tools to remain irreplaceable.52:24 – 53:54 (Gelo): Gelo adds that embracing AI is essential—not only to keep pace with innovation but also to develop a strong personal brand and a network (inviting listeners to join their Discord community).53:54 – 54:10 (Gab & Gelo): They touch on the importance of building one’s “Knowledge Graph” as part of personal branding.54:10 – 56:13 (Gab & Gelo): In a speculative tone, the discussion shifts to what SEO might look like in the distant future—pondering ideas like neurolink interfaces and a radically transformed digital landscape.56:14 – 57:07 (Gelo): Gelo draws an analogy with historical shifts (referencing Oppenheimer and the nuclear age) to illustrate how transformative and disruptive technology can be.57:07 – 59:34 (Gelo & Gab): They debate potential future scenarios, including the role of regulation, the balance between human and AI control, and the risk of technology evolving beyond our expectations.59:59 – 1:02:03 (Gab & Gelo): The episode wraps up with final reflections and announcements. Gab hints at upcoming projects (like his new SEO Workout page), and Gelo invites listeners to follow them on social media, sign off with a reminder to join “SEO Tambayan,” and thanks everyone for tuning in.Join our communities:
https://seoworkout.comhttps://theseodad.org
SEO Tambayan in DiscordFollow us on:
Website: https://seokwentuhan.comSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0PgXThgH1zZCVc0oaZqtOkYouTube Channel: SEO KwentuhanHere are some resources for you:
AI Resources:
https://claude.aihttps://gemini.google.comhttps://chatgpt.comhttps://www.perplexity.aiYouTube Channel: aiadvantageAutomation + No Code Automation Resources:
https://nicksaraev.comhttps://www.make.com/enhttps://zapier.comhttps://www.activepieces.com -
Losing a job can feel like a personal defeat, but in reality, it may just be the universe nudging you towards something better. In a recent episode of their podcast, Gab and Gelo explore the emotional and practical challenges that come with being laid off. Gab sets the tone by discussing how being let go doesn’t always signal the end of the road, but rather, it can serve as a redirection to new opportunities. With industries like SEO constantly evolving and the rise of AI tools disrupting traditional roles, many professionals find themselves out of work or worried about their future. As they share in this episode, the key to overcoming such setbacks is all about mindset—transforming feelings of loss into a chance for growth.
Throughout their conversation, Gelo and Gab share personal experiences and offer advice on job searching, networking, and upskilling. They provide actionable insights on how to manage finances and use downtime effectively, whether it's by learning new skills or tapping into existing ones. From leveraging professional connections to adapting to changing industry trends, this episode is packed with practical tips to help you rebuild and move forward after a layoff. If you’re looking for guidance on how to navigate uncertain times and turn challenges into opportunities, this conversation is for you.
Transcript Summary
00:00 - 00:35
Gab: Introduces the episode, setting the tone by discussing the common experience of being laid off. Despite the negative connotation of losing a job, Gab emphasizes that it should not always be viewed negatively, and that such events could lead to new opportunities.
00:45 - 01:24
Gelo: Asks Gab if he has ever been laid off. Gab shares that he has never experienced a layoff but mentions that in his experience, he’s been the one to leave companies before they close. He reflects on the challenges of managing clients, particularly when a company’s sales are declining.
02:15 - 02:55
Gab: Acknowledges that in SEO, companies can fall out of the limelight quickly, especially after Google updates. He references the impact of changes in strategies within industries, noting that the SEO landscape is constantly evolving, and many businesses that relied on older SEO techniques (like PBNs or Black Hat tactics) are disappearing. Gelo adds that with the rise of AI tools like GPT, layoffs in the industry are becoming more probable.
03:00 - 03:27
Gelo: Discusses the specific impact of AI on content creation jobs, noting that AI is increasingly used in content generation, which has led to a reduction in demand for content writers. Gab agrees, explaining that AI can now produce content at scale for a fraction of the cost, contributing to job insecurity for those in the content creation field.
04:17 - 05:02
Gelo: Opens up about his personal experience of being laid off from his job in the casino industry during the pandemic. He shares the emotional turmoil he went through, especially as he had been the primary breadwinner for his family. The experience made him question his worth, as he had worked at the company for 10 years. Despite the challenges, Gelo describes how he pivoted to a new industry.
05:03 - 05:25
Gelo: Asks Gab what the first thing someone should do after being laid off. Gab, who has not been laid off himself, responds with advice based on his experience managing clients and tracking analytics. He suggests that after a layoff, it's important to shift your mindset to find the next opportunity, accept what has happened, and update your resume or freelance profiles.
07:03 - 08:40
Gab: Talks about the importance of upskilling and growing one's expertise after a layoff. He reflects on his journey from being a virtual assistant (VA) to transitioning into SEO and managing his own agency. He advises that upskilling, particularly in SEO, can open doors to new opportunities and career paths. Gelo agrees and highlights how valuable upskilling has been in his own career growth.
09:30 - 10:59
Gelo: Emphasizes the importance of acknowledging and processing one's feelings after a layoff. He also discusses how he managed his finances by building an emergency fund before being laid off. Having financial security helped him avoid panic and focus on finding the next opportunity. He also mentions that some companies offer severance packages, which can be useful in the transition period.
11:33 - 11:56
Gelo: Talks about how he used his time during the pandemic to upskill, watching YouTube videos and taking online courses on platforms like Udemy. He advises that, especially for people changing industries, gaining new knowledge is key to shifting careers successfully. Gab adds that financial management is crucial for freelancers, as income can be unpredictable, and having savings can help cushion periods of transition.
12:21 - 12:22
Gab: Gives advice on managing finances as a freelancer, stressing the importance of saving money during periods of high income so you have a financial cushion for unexpected events, like losing a client or job. He reinforces the idea that freelancers must be prepared for the unpredictability of their work.
12:30 - 12:43
Gelo: Starts this section by highlighting the difficulty of losing a job, especially if you don’t have children to support. He humorously mentions that parents often end up being an emergency fund in such situations.
Gab: Agrees, noting that financial struggles could lead to accumulating debts, but suggests that if you don't have an emergency fund, a good credit score and access to credit cards could serve as temporary solutions.
13:22 - 13:57
Gelo: Asks Gab for advice on managing finances while searching for a new job after being laid off. Gab, from a freelancing perspective, recommends focusing on essential expenses first. He suggests that individuals should prioritize things like internet and electricity bills, and avoid spending on non-essentials. He emphasizes the importance of having an emergency fund, which should ideally cover six months of living expenses.
15:08 - 16:07
Gelo: Discusses how to manage finances further by potentially selling assets or downsizing. He talks about how during the pandemic, he considered downgrading his phone or selling items like fruits and nuts to generate additional income. Gab concurs, suggesting that if one owns a car, it could be sold or downgraded to ease financial burdens. He also shares how, as a freelancer, he avoids the need for a car since it's not a necessity for his work, offering an example of how to prioritize spending.
17:56 - 18:25
Gelo: Asks how someone can leverage their network while searching for a new job. Gab highlights the importance of online networks, especially for freelancers who might be isolated at home. He advises posting on platforms like LinkedIn, where you can indicate you're “open to work,” and participating in groups where others may offer job opportunities or connections. Gelo agrees, pointing out the value of sharing job availability within smaller, closely-knit professional groups, especially in industries like SEO.
20:06 - 21:09
Gelo: Reflects on how to build a trustworthy network that will be valuable when job searching. He stresses the importance of rapport-building with colleagues and mentors, noting that having strong relationships makes it easier to ask for referrals or recommendations. Gab adds that asking for LinkedIn recommendations from colleagues can also be crucial for boosting your profile and credibility. He also emphasizes the power of networking through shared connections, as some people may share your posts on their wider networks.
21:09 - 22:06
Gelo: Turns the conversation to how individuals can use their downtime during job searches to upskill and learn new skills. Gab highlights how valuable it is to use free time effectively to improve one's skill set, especially in freelancing. Whether it’s taking online courses or gaining more knowledge in a particular field, downtime offers a great opportunity for self-improvement, making individuals more attractive to potential employers or clients. Gelo encourages viewers to focus on developing skills that can lead to new career opportunities.
22:21 - 23:34
Gab: Emphasizes the importance of assessing one’s current skills and how they align with future demands. He mentions that, for him, automation and data analytics—especially the combination of AI and automation—are areas he’s focusing on, as they are expected to play a crucial role in business optimization in the future. He notes that SEO will continue to evolve, and although the nature of search engine optimization may change, the fundamentals will still apply. He also predicts that local SEO will evolve, with new features like Google’s street view and maps enhancing visibility.
23:35 - 24:47
Gab: Advises that it’s important to focus on skills that are directly related to one's current work or career goals. He explains that it can be harder and take longer to master something completely unrelated to what you’re already doing. He suggests that those who are already familiar with SEO should build on that foundation by learning about automation and data analytics, as these fields are set to be in high demand.
Gelo: Concurs, noting that although learning new things is valuable, it’s better to build on existing knowledge.
25:15 - 26:37
Gelo: Reflects on how downtime can be a chance for self-improvement, but admits that he struggles to focus sometimes, especially with distractions like social media and household responsibilities. He encourages listeners to set aside a specific time for learning, free from distractions like Facebook or Shopee. He emphasizes that it’s important to create an environment conducive to studying or upskilling, particularly when you have more free time due to a job loss.
26:37 - 27:56
Gelo: Elaborates on the importance of focusing on skills that are directly relevant to one’s career transition. He talks about how, for example, someone laid off from a digital marketing agency should focus on specialized skills like AI, automation, and GPT engineering. Gelo mentions a new development in the AI field—a "GPT operator" that automates tasks like booking restaurants—which he views as a sign of the direction things are heading. Gab agrees that AI and automation are key areas to explore and stay updated on, as they will be increasingly relevant in various industries.
28:24 - 29:50
Gab: Shares his approach to job hunting, acknowledging that sometimes he makes the mistake of rushing into applications. He advises against sending out mass applications to job postings that aren’t a good fit, as it lowers the chances of success. Instead, he suggests applying to fewer, more relevant positions to increase the likelihood of getting noticed. He also mentions platforms like Upwork, OnlineJobs.ph, and Indeed for job hunting, but warns against applying to outdated job posts that haven’t been processed in months.
29:51 - 31:37
Gab: Talks about the importance of showcasing your work even if you're not actively applying for jobs. He suggests posting case studies or reels on social media to create an impression and stay visible to potential employers or clients. This is especially effective for people in SEO or other digital marketing roles, as your friends and connections may recognize the value of your skills and reach out when opportunities arise. Gelo adds that even casual gatherings, like reunions, can become networking opportunities if your work is known within your social circles.
32:20 - 32:47
Gab: Highlights the usefulness of job alerts on platforms like LinkedIn, Indeed, and Jobstreet. He explains that these alerts can help job seekers stay on top of relevant openings based on their location, job title, and experience. He also advises job seekers to pay attention to the job descriptions to understand which tools and skills employers are seeking. By setting up job alerts, you can receive daily or weekly emails with relevant opportunities, making the job search process more efficient.
32:47 - 34:55
Gelo: Shares his experience with using job alerts and recommends leveraging your professional network when looking for job opportunities. He suggests reaching out to past clients who may have let go of your services due to budget constraints but might be in a position to work with you again.
Gab: Agrees, reflecting on how he successfully contacted former clients when he launched his agency, and how this led to new opportunities. Both speakers emphasize the value of maintaining relationships and staying connected on platforms like LinkedIn to keep the door open for future collaborations.
35:03 - 36:03
Gelo: Advises that if you're nervous about job interviews, it’s okay to fail. The key is to learn from each interview and refine your approach for the next one. He encourages listeners to practice by watching interview preparation videos and understanding what to expect. He also highlights that job seekers should be prepared to handle rejection, and that each interview can help them better understand their strengths and weaknesses.
Gab: Adds that a positive attitude and experience are essential when it comes to interviews.
36:11 - 37:50
Gab: Offers encouraging advice to those experiencing a layoff, reminding them that it’s not the end of the world. He suggests viewing a layoff as an opportunity for redirection towards better opportunities, growth, and income. Gab encourages people not to give up after a few months of job hunting; instead, they should consider creating their own agency, as long as they have the experience and are willing to put in the effort. He reflects on how he started his own agency after the pandemic, outsourcing work and seeking clients.
Gelo: Agrees, emphasizing the importance of thinking creatively and being proactive.
38:00 - 39:40
Gelo: Speaks about the emotional struggles that come with being laid off, advising not to stay in a victim mentality. Instead, he encourages listeners to be proactive, upskill, and make use of resources like free courses available online. He also emphasizes the importance of prayer in tough times, suggesting that while you need to work hard, faith can offer guidance and strength.
Gab: Adds that even during difficult moments, praying for direction and support can help you feel less alone in the journey.
39:40 - 41:05
Gelo: Shares how reading The Obstacle Is the Way by Ryan Holiday helped him navigate obstacles in life, reinforcing the Stoic principle of focusing on what you can control. He advises that when facing a setback like a layoff, it’s crucial to control your emotions and think about how to rebuild and rise from rock bottom.
Gab: Concurs, reflecting on how life’s difficulties often bring valuable lessons and insights.
41:06 - 42:14
In the closing moments..
Gab and Gelo: Reflect on their conversation and encourage listeners to keep pushing forward in their careers. Gab mentions that their courses—such as SEO Sprint, Technical SEO, and Local SEO Mastery—are available for those looking to upskill. He also notes that SEO is not going anywhere, and staying updated with new strategies, especially those incorporating AI, is key to long-term success.
Gelo: Adds that they, too, continue to upskill, showing that even experts need to stay on top of their game. They conclude by encouraging listeners to stay proactive, keep learning, and not to give up.
Don't forget to join our communities:
SEO Workout: https://seoworkout.com/
Local SEO Masterclass: https://theseodad.org/
-
In this episode of the SEO Kwentuhan podcast, Gab and Gelo share the compelling story of a long-time freelancer who faced a tough decision between two clients—one loyal but increasingly demanding, and another offering a better rate and opportunity for growth. Titled “You Lost Your Heart On Your Job,” the listener’s tale highlights the complexities of freelancing, from navigating overwhelming workloads to recognizing when it's time to move on for better prospects. The story underscores the challenges that many freelancers encounter, such as negotiating rates, maintaining work-life balance, and managing relationships with clients who may not always appreciate the value you're providing.
Gab and Gelo offer practical advice on handling these situations, including how to set boundaries, know your worth, and negotiate effectively. They also touch on the importance of maintaining professionalism—even when things go wrong—with the potential for future referrals or even a client comeback. The episode is packed with insights on client management, the art of negotiation, and the mindset needed to stay motivated in the face of rejection or unexpected changes in your career. If you're a freelancer navigating similar challenges, this episode offers both a cautionary tale and a roadmap for thriving in a competitive and ever-changing industry.
Resource for you:
Comprehensive Guide for Salary Negotiation + Template:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOr3sbYPAW4
Transcript Summary
00:00 - 01:24
Gab: Introduces the episode, sharing that the third story comes from a listener titled "You Lost Your Heart On Your Job." He mentions that the title seems heavy and somewhat "fishy," expressing curiosity about the story.
Gelo: Responds humorously, showing his love for his job. He then begins to read the listener’s story. The listener has been freelancing for 12 years and specializes in link building. In 2019, they were hired as a link prospector at a US SEO agency and worked under a mentor who taught them the ropes of link building. The listener explains how they moved from development work to focusing on link building.
01:24 - 02:34
Gelo: Shares that the listener worked hard and was proactive, even managing their own notifications to stay focused on the work. They mention how the listener was dedicated and went above and beyond, managing emails and other tasks even when they were not instructed to do so.
Gab: Comments on the listener's proactive attitude, adding that turning off notifications during weekends to avoid work stress shows a real commitment to the job.
02:34 - 04:08
Gelo: Explains that while the listener initially felt appreciated and even became a business partner in the agency, the workload soon became overwhelming. Despite meeting quotas, the expectations started to increase, and the relationship soured when the client began nagging the listener.
Gab: Empathizes with the listener, noting how overwhelming it can be when expectations shift like that. Gelo adds that the listener had another offer from a different client, which prompted them to reconsider the relationship.
04:08 - 05:47
Gelo: Talks about the listener deciding to move on, choosing the higher-paying client over their current one. He mentions how this shift was also influenced by advice in freelance groups that suggest negotiating for better rates.
Gab: Adds that this is a common scenario, especially in platforms like Upwork, where job offers can come unexpectedly, even when you're already employed.
05:47 - 06:55
Gelo: Shares that the listener discovered they had been removed from the project, receiving an email saying their "heart was no longer in the work." Despite the separation, the listener remained professional, thanking the client and apologizing for the misunderstanding.
Gab: Acknowledges that despite the awkwardness, the listener handled the situation with confidence. The listener has since received messages from the old client, who wants to hire them back, but the listener is happy with the new opportunity.
06:55 - 07:59
Gelo: Humorously mentions that the old client is now messaging the listener even on holidays, but the listener remains firm in their decision. Gelo reflects on how hard it can be to choose between two clients, especially when one has been loyal but the other offers better compensation.
Gab: Agrees that it’s tough to make that call, but highlights that the listener’s choice of the higher-paying client seems like a smart move.
07:59 - 09:23
Gelo: Mentions freelance groups and resources where tips on how to handle negotiations and rates are shared. He references Remit Sety’s YouTube channel, "I Will Teach You To Be Rich," which includes step-by-step negotiation tactics for freelancers.
Gab: Notes that these tips aren’t just for employees but also for agency owners who may have to negotiate service rates with clients.
09:23 - 11:23
Gelo: Introduces the next segment of the podcast, where they will dissect the listener’s story and discuss the signs of toxic clients. He asks Gab how a freelancer can recognize when a client is becoming toxic and whether it’s time to reconsider the relationship.
Gab: Draws on a previous episode discussing "red flag clients" and mentions that while it’s easy to spot red flags with new clients, it can be more difficult to recognize them in long-term relationships. He reflects on the impact of increased workload without appropriate compensation or support.
11:23 - 12:52
Gab: Discusses how agency owners need to manage increasing workloads by hiring more people or training new team members. He reflects on his experiences with toxic clients, noting that sometimes it’s not the client who’s toxic but rather unmet expectations on the service provider’s part. If you promise results (like increased traffic) but fail to deliver, clients can feel frustrated and may seem toxic.
Gelo: Asks Gab if he’s ever had experiences where a client’s attitude changed over time. Gab confirms that it often happens, especially with long-term clients, as they adapt strategies or expect more without properly communicating.
12:52 - 14:12
Gab: Elaborates that when clients work with an SEO strategy over a long period, they may adapt and change it themselves, especially if they have in-house SEO teams. This can lead to stagnation in results, which might make clients dissatisfied, even though the strategies are still effective.
Gelo: Asks why this shift in attitude should be considered toxic. Gab explains that while some changes are natural, conflicts arise when there’s a misalignment in expectations or communication. External factors, like economic conditions or other stressors, can also contribute to the growing toxicity of a client relationship.
14:12 - 16:04
Gab: Mentions external factors that might contribute to a client’s stress and attitude shift. He cites examples like economic recession or even natural disasters (e.g., wildfires in California) affecting businesses, making it essential to be mindful of a client’s external pressures and the impact these might have on the relationship.
Gelo: Agrees, pointing out that it’s important to consider what might be influencing the client’s behavior beyond just the work itself. Gab emphasizes that being aware of these factors can help prevent conflicts and better manage client relationships.
16:05 - 17:17
Gelo: Raises the importance of setting boundaries in freelancing, such as defining clear working hours and areas of responsibility. He uses the example of limiting communication to certain hours (like 9 PM to 12 AM) to avoid burnout and to maintain a work-life balance.
Gab: Adds that setting boundaries also means communicating limitations to clients. For example, if a freelancer only handles SEO or link building and not SMO or email marketing, they need to make that clear. This helps clients understand the freelancer’s expertise and prevents unrealistic expectations. He stresses that freelancers should be upfront about their strengths and areas where they might need additional support or a larger team.
17:17 - 18:41
Gelo: Gives examples of how to communicate boundaries, such as establishing maximum response times (e.g., replying within 24 hours) and setting clear expectations about holidays and time off. He shares his personal approach of using asynchronous communication—such as recorded video updates—rather than frequent meetings, to streamline interactions with clients.
Gab: Agrees with the importance of clear communication and setting proper expectations from the beginning of a project. By making these boundaries clear, both parties can respect each other’s time and avoid misunderstandings later on.
19:27 - 20:58
Gelo: Introduces the question of how freelancers can know their worth and when to negotiate their rates. He acknowledges that it’s a challenging topic, as it depends on the freelancer’s skills and experience. He highlights that the listener in the story knew their worth and confidently negotiated their rate.
Gab: Reflects on the listener’s ability to negotiate their rate and emphasizes that freelancers should assess their skills and expertise. He advises that if more than 80% of digital marketers can do a task, it might be time to raise rates. He suggests that even a rate of $50 per hour can be a fair starting point for those with a specialized skill set.
20:58 - 21:11
Gab: Further explains that freelancers should assess their skill set relative to the market. If they possess rare skills or experience, they can confidently raise their rates. He mentions that the listener’s ability to take on challenging tasks and provide high-quality work gives them the leverage to negotiate higher fees.
Gelo: Adds that understanding when to raise rates is crucial for freelancers, especially as they gain more experience and expertise in their field. He reinforces the idea that raising rates is a natural part of growing as a freelancer.
21:12 - 22:43
Gab: Discusses how to assess your worth as a freelancer, advising that you should look at your experience and compare it with the rates of others in your field. He suggests checking LinkedIn or Indeed to see what others with similar experience are charging.
Gelo: Adds that it’s important to know your market value, which can vary by region. For example, rates in the US or Canada may be based on yearly salaries, while in other countries, it's more common to charge hourly or monthly.
Gab: Continues by highlighting that inflation and other economic factors (like rising gasoline prices) might affect the rates clients are willing to pay. If the cost of living rises, you could use this as a reason to justify raising your rates.
22:43 - 24:24
Gelo: Emphasizes the importance of documenting the value you provide as a freelancer. By keeping a record of your achievements (such as improvements and results), you can use this information to justify a rate increase during negotiations. He suggests that for those new to the industry, even if you don't have many years of experience, you can still compile a report of what you’ve contributed over the past year or six months. This will give clients a reason to consider raising your salary.
Gab: Adds that it’s important to set clear milestones and expectations with clients, especially when discussing rate changes. He stresses that negotiations shouldn’t be spontaneous; instead, approach them with data and reasoning about your contributions and ROI.
24:24 - 25:13
Gab: Talks about clients who might offer performance-based pay or commissions, particularly when you demonstrate consistent results. He stresses that showing value through clear and effective reports (monthly, quarterly, yearly) can lead clients to naturally offer raises or commissions.
Gelo: Emphasizes that if you’re consistently doing great work, clients will notice and may voluntarily offer better pay or incentives.
25:13 - 27:31
Gelo and Gab: Discuss how to stay motivated despite rejection or termination from clients. Gelo shares a story of someone who learned to move forward quickly after being let go, understanding that new opportunities will come along.
Gab: Advises having a growth mindset and continuously improving your profile, portfolio, and testimonials on platforms like LinkedIn or Upwork to increase your chances of success in the future. He stresses that rejection isn’t the end, and your skills can always be improved.
Gelo: Adds that you should always remember that rejections or terminations might not be about you personally. Other external factors, such as a client’s changing business goals or the global economy, might be at play. Keep a positive attitude and stay motivated.
27:31 - 29:46
Gelo and Gab: Discuss how to handle situations when a client comes back after a bad experience. Gab advises keeping communication open rather than burning bridges. Even if a client rejected your proposal or terminated your services, it’s still worth maintaining a professional relationship, as circumstances could change.
Gelo: Adds that even though some clients may seem like a red flag, they could be a valuable connection or referral source in the future. Networking with former clients can bring unexpected opportunities, and even if they shift focus (e.g., from SEO to paid ads), they may still refer you to others in need of your expertise.
29:46 - 31:12
Gelo: Emphasizes the importance of keeping composure in client interactions, especially when things aren’t going well. Even if you feel frustrated or upset, maintaining a professional demeanor can make a significant difference in the long run. Gab agrees, noting that this professionalism helps you avoid burning bridges and potentially leads to future opportunities.
Gelo: Wraps up by sharing how clients may later refer you to others or bring you back after realizing the value you provide, especially if they’ve shifted their business focus.
31:12 - 31:58
Gab: Talks about how after a year of working with a client, it’s natural to expect a rate increase. He points out that as you gain experience and results, raising your rates is part of growing in your freelance career.
Gelo: Echoes this sentiment, reinforcing that everyone should strive for financial growth and continually improve their skills to increase their earning potential.
31:58 - 32:29
Gelo: Thanks listeners who have sent in their stories, whether they are freelancers or agency workers, and invites others to submit their experiences for future episodes. He mentions that listeners can send stories to SEO Kwentuhan’s page or to Coach Gab directly for a chance to receive SEO Kwentuhan merch.
Gab: Wraps up by reminding listeners that SEO is a personal journey, and whether you're learning from others or reading up on best practices, it’s all about continuous learning. He encourages everyone to stay positive and keep tuning in.
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