Afleveringen

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    Donald McNeil Jr., a 45-year New York Times veteran, comes on the pod to talk with Nancy and Sarah about 
 so much. The prompt was the recent NYT story, “We Were Badly Misled About the Event That Changed Our Lives.” As the paper of record tries to come correct on Covid, we wanted to hear from the science journalist, one of the first to tell Americans about this strange thing called the coronavirus. A self-declared “cranky old-school” reporter, McNeil landed the story of his career in 2020 and became part of a team that won the Pulitzer. But by 2021, he was gone, amid scandal and speculation. He talks about the bizarre kerfuffle that led to his resignation, mean girl dynamics at the paper, being misled by scientists, and what we do and don’t know about Covid-19’s origins.

    As McNeil wrote in Wisdom of Plagues, "Covid coarsened us as a nation... The coarsening cracks our national skin. It makes us more vulnerable to infection."

    Also discussed:

    * Nancy tries not to fangirl. She fangirls anyway.

    * “It’s a great newspaper but it’s a second-rate corporation, and its personnel stuff is particularly bad.”

    * The walk McNeil took with James Bennet, a year after both getting booted from the Times, is a play we’d like to see

    * “Looks like Don nailed it. Let’s not tell him.” (!!!!!!)

    * NYT brass on their writing staff: “Widgets made here.”

    * Young turks vs. cranky old-timers in union leadership

    * The Daily Beast and Gawker do not cover themselves in glory

    * "The Western focus on personal liberty above all can kill."

    * The Mike Pesca of it all

    * The hope that Covid might “unite us with a common enemy” like WWII. Awww, what happened instead? We turned on each other.

    * “Ecstasy is a very good drug to get you talking”

    * McNeil = not a fan of Jay Battacharya

    * Thoughts on RFK!

    Plus, McNeil explains what “hot-box” once meant, where he thinks H5-N1 is going, how cancel culture is like the French Revolution, and much more!

    Does McNeil think Covid-19 was engineered in a virology lab or evolved in the wet market? Paid subscribers find out!

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    As we mark the fifth (yes, fifth!) anniversary of Covid, Nancy and Sarah look back at the mistakes, the time warp, the lessons. While some of these experiences are collective, some are quite specific, especially in blue states where enforced lockdowns and school closures stretched on longer. Was the misery of that time period a symptom of authoritarianism — or democracy?

    Big topic of the day: Ruby Franke, the Mormon mom with a YouTube channel currently serving time in prison for child abuse. A new docu-series on Hulu, Devil in the Family, connects the dots on how she got there. Nancy and Sarah talk toxic fundamentalism, mind control, sexual shaming, child abuse (and how it’s culturally constructed), and the ethics of talking/blogging/profiting from your children. We also watched the Baldwins’ new reality show, bless our hearts.

    Also discussed:

    * A crushing piece by a father on how COVID changed his young son

    * Hitchhiking!

    * The problems of safetyism

    * Sarah’s secret petty side

    * “Sorry I didn’t grow up in Appalachia
”

    * JD Vance memes are fun for everyone!

    * The ethics of writing/blogging about kids

    * How Sarah disappointed Katie Herzog

    * The vengeful figure of Jodi Hildebrant, therapist

    * Visions of Glory, the controversial Mormon book

    * We need to talk about Kevin

    * Nancy teaches Sarah the meaning of “May-December” romance

    * That time Alec Baldwin screamed at his daughter Ireland

    * Bad fathers can make good grandfathers

    Plus, a new theory on the Manson murders, Steve Kornacki’s secret identity as a Lifetime movie scribe, Senator Bob Kerrey on grace, and more!

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    Nancy and Sarah are joined by the Great Mike Pesca, one-time Jeopardy! contestant and host of news podcast The Gist, to talk about dudes and dude-related topics. They discuss men’s-only spaces and whether women’s workout wear has become hyper-sexualized (and is that a bad thing?). They also break down Gavin Newsom’s podcast debut with his guest, conservative firebrand Charlie Kirk. Good idea? Dangerous idea? It’s always a good time when Pesca visits the Smoke ‘Em pod.

    Also discussed:

    * In this house, we believe in peanut butter

    * Booo, Daylight Savings Time

    * A Pesca discourse on the copper content of pre- and post-1982 pennies

    * Lady Gaga on Saturday Night Live

    * High school Sarah had a crush on Mike Myers!

    * What Lululemon did to women — and men

    * Nancy does not like to see men without their shirts on!

    * Curves is the Jenny Craig of gyms

    * Why does a man buy a woman a steak?

    * Sarah is the whore of Babylon Williamsburg

    * Murder podcasts should not be snack food

    * The RFK Salon story that had to be retracted

    * Why do men dominate the podcast space?

    * Theories on Chris Hayes

    * Parker Posey’s Lorazepam accent

    * Sadness and horror over Gene Hackman’s death

    Plus, why Sarah said no to Megyn Kelly, the time Pesca thought Lady Gaga was a drag queen, a PSA to take care of your olds, and much more!

    It’s always an hour earlier when you become a paid subscriber.

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    “It was a very bad night for American boobs,” Sarah observed of the 2025 Oscars, where a conspicuous fashion trend has gone mostly unnoticed. Nancy and Sarah are on record for believing boobs are magic, so why did so many gorgeous actresses hide their tractor beams under a bushel? Could it be a sign of fashion’s increasing androgyny
 or Hollywood’s increasing irrelevance? Then, Nancy goes on a multi-part rant about the Tate brothers coming back to the U.S., while Sarah ponders how those two became avatars of American manhood. Finally: Body language in the Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy showdown.

    Also discussed:

    * McDonald’s serves the world’s best Diet Coke

    * Please don’t tell Sarah you appreciate her

    * 75% of Eagle Scouts are girls?

    * “Your Dune 2 fan is not watching the Oscars.”

    * “Boys just want the pretty girl in math class.”

    * Is J.D. Vance being cast as the heavy?

    * The end of reading?

    * Don DeLillo was “a beautiful culmination of the 20th century.”

    * Why Sarah shies away from talking politics

    * Has news replaced our need to read tragedy?

    Plus, Smoke gets a “Dear John” letter, the mystery of Gene Hackman’s death, and much more!

    PS: Spare a thought/prayer for Kat Timpf, recently diagnosed with cancer, whose boobs are rightly being used right now only (or mostly!) to feed her newborn son. Love you Kitty Kat, godspeed xx

    Actual footage of Sarah watching Oscar dresses on the red carpet 


    Oscars fashion fun behind the paywall, only for paid subscribers 


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    Eli Lake is not a historian but a “journalist who loves history.” The former “Re-Education of Eli Lake” host and current Free Press contributor comes on Smoke for the second time to discuss his latest pop-history podcast, “Why We’re Obsessed with JFK Conspiracies.” As usual, Lake puts his own distinctive spin on a story that may have been told before, yes, but not this way.

    First, though, Nancy and Sarah have to talk to Eli about Israel. Eli explains that what happened to the Bibas family has hardened his heart, but he’s trying not to let it radicalize him. We talk morals and ideologies, the horrors of war, and the necessities for civil society.

    Also discussed:

    * “A rabbit hole the country has never been able to climb out of”

    * Eli teaches Sarah some Yiddish

    * “If Baruch Goldstein had been Palestinian, they’d be naming schools after him.”

    * Gaza-lago?

    * On conspiracy susceptibility: “It’s either, ‘You’re a moron’ or, ‘How can you be so naive, kid?” And yet we want to believe 


    * Eli coins new and helpful word: Mono-cause

    * JFK is the “octopus conspiracy”

    * Even LBJ thought something weird was going on 


    * The unspeakable abuses exposed by the Church Committee

    * We are a pro-Norman Mailer podcast!

    * Nancy says something profound?

    * Sarah quotes Timothee Chalamet award speech, nobody cares

    * Editor’s note: Hal Ashby directed Harold and Maude

    * Second editor’s note: Waylon Jennings sand Dukes of Hazzard theme song

    * “What happened to normal movies?”

    * The Emilia Perez kerfuffle is so 2020

    Plus, Eli is such a good guest he brought his own outro (AND wrote Nancy a Sleater-Kinneyesque theme for her new interview series CHEFS TALK), Nancy and Sarah wrassle over what movie wins Best Picture, we imagine a woke Dukes of Hazzard, and much more!

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    You might know Meghan McCain from her stints at FOX, The View, SiriusFM, but surely you know her as the daughter of the late Arizona senator John McCain. “Nepo baby!” McCain jokes during her podcast introduction, but McCain is much more than that. She’s a savvy media fixture who has very strong opinions about, well, everything. Nancy and Sarah like that in a gal! The three of them talk about politics, body image, #MeToo, and the vibe shift that has made conservatives cool for the first time in Meghan’s life.

    Also discussed:

    * “The most radical thing I’ve ever done is not dieting.”

    * Thoughts on Ozempic

    * Megababe for chub rub

    * “Nobody was cooler than an Obama bro, and my dad tried to stop him.”

    * Meghan on her dad: “He carpied the diem.”

    * “The uptight, HR-department, school-marm dorks are the Democrats?”

    * The anchoring sanity of The Fifth Column

    * Aziz Ansari and Meghan’s #MeToo breaking point

    * The cringe of working for Roger Ailes

    * That time the New Yorker claimed Brett Kavanaugh was a gang rapist

    * Friends we lost in the culture war 


    * Austin: a lost paradise?

    * Some love for Mark Halperin

    * Immigration and the lack of humanity

    * The heartbreak of the Bibas family

    * Meghan gives “Texas babe vibes”

    * LET’S GO TO THE RODEO

    Plus, Meghan on what happened at Columbia (her alma mater), Nancy has a Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct moment, Sarah doesn’t think she’s a Bad Bitch, and much more!

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    “Would you have Elon Musk’s baby?” Sarah texted Nancy the other day, to which she responded, “Fuck no.” Thus launches the latest Smoke ‘Em debate, in which our co-host who is without child confesses she’d take some of that SpaceX sperm. Has she lost her mind, or is she merely responding to nature’s imperative? We discuss this, as well as Musk’s new babymama, Ashley St. Clair.

    Then it’s on to a double-dip from New York Times Magazine: “Why Gen X Women are Having the Best Sex” and “How I Learned That the Problem in My Marriage Was Me.” Is 20th-century licentiousness dead? Has therapy bled too far into the culture?

    Also discussed:

    * Diet Pepsi > Diet Coke

    * “On accident” vs. “by accident”?

    * Sperm ice cubes at the 7-Eleven

    * Milo Yiannopoulos has entered the chat

    * Can you make yourself sexy or nah?

    * Netchix and flill

    * Nancy declares she does not like declarative sentences

    * The saddest divorce book

    * Why does Nancy get so annoyed when people talk about their sex lives?

    * Sarah’s string of younger men

    * Moynihan’s not kicking those bikini-clad girls out of bed

    * Women have rage problems, too

    * Announcement: CHEFS TALK!!!

    * “The thing about Led Zeppelin songs is, none of the names make sense.”

    Plus, the speedball of intimacy, the obsession with being obsessed, Nancy gets a crush on Jimmy Page, and much more!

    Correction: Listener Mavis wrote: “In ‘Iphigenia in Forest Hills,’ she killed her child’s father, not her daughter!” Absolutely correct! Nancy regrets the error, and for more Janet Malcolm, see this week’s hot boxes

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    Nancy and Sarah celebrate Valentine’s Day with a civil disagreement on how stupid the holiday actually is. Also: Sex trivia! The conversation ranges from how people can masturbate in an MRI to Super Bowl controversies and the greatness of Janet Malcolm. Also discussed:

    * All New Yorkers go to Miami?

    * Sarah explains women to Nancy

    * Gifts are not meant to be manipulations

    * Kanye and AI nonsense

    * “Swat-sticker” (!!!!!)

    * Bill Gates on the upside of AI

    * The low rattle of unhappiness

    * Salmon sperm facials

    * Tafv, we want your blood

    * Something strange is afoot at the Kinsey Institute

    * How often do people over 45 masturbate, and why is that number a lie?

    * Orgasms in your sleep

    * “How are you masturbating in an MRI?”

    * Taylor Swift booed

    * Farewell to the penny!! You served us well.

    * Great new Janet Malcolm story by Katie Roiphe

    * People vs. the story: A journalism debate!

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    “Ready to go ten rounds?” Nancy asked Sarah, when Sarah asked her to watch Emilia PĂ©rez, a Spanish-language musical for which there is no shortage of agitation on both the right and the left. Trans activists hate it, Ben Shapiro called it garbage, Mexican film goers are apparently asking for their money back. And yet, the movie got a whopping 13 Oscar nominations. What gives?

    Nancy reluctantly watched Emilia PĂ©rez, and — was completely surprised. Her reaction was, in fact, very similar to Sarah’s. (That’s why Sarah wanted her to see it.) Is this wild, unconventional movie a triumph, a “glittering disaster,” a “trans Mrs. Doubtfire”? The answer is all of the above.

    Also discussed:

    * “Happy Monday!”

    * Nancy fat-shames the poor widdle groundhog

    * New coinage: “Western Time”

    * Sarah’s pre-flight soul inventory is arduous

    * “The denial of death shapes most people’s lives.”

    * “House of Strauss” has the best theme music (and, ahem, the best guests)

    * General Hospital, remembered

    * We hate lecture films

    * Why Emilia Perez makes sense as an opera

    * Selena Gomez is like watching fourteen cupcakes shimmy around in a dress

    * Johanne Sacreblue!

    * The Pope version of Survivor

    * Kieran Culkan is a bad-ass

    Plus, Nancy writes a nice essay, Sarah is up for an award, what the hell is Groundhog’s Day, and much more!

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    Sarah and Nancy discuss the Atlantic story “The Anti-Social Century,” about how much of modern life is being lived in isolation. They talk about eating alone, parasocial relationships, and why Sarah feels completely nailed by the data point that “the typical female pet owner spends more time actively engaged with her pet than she spends in face-to-face contact with friends of her own species.”

    Also discussed:

    * Okay, we’ll talk about that thing Elon did

    * Is the blue/gold dress the metaphor of our times?

    * Trump is the candidate Americans built brick-by-brick

    * Who did Nancy write-in for president 2024? This guy


    * Gotta agree with Sarah’s old roommate on the Kleenex thing

    * Shark Tank love

    * McLuhan: “Every augmentation is an amputation”

    * Sarah finds listening to Jon Ronson is “deeply edifying”

    * Nancy is impressed — again! — with the concept “skin hunger”

    * Someone admits to watching Rock of Love

    * Character.ai: Let us know if you’re using it!

    * Late-breaking Oscar nominations

    Plus, the generosity of David Lynch’s dreamscapes, “let me sell you a solution to a problem you didn’t know you had,” Sarah requests you send her postcards stating your favorite hm-hm-hm, and much more!

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    Reading Noah Rothman’s new piece in Commentary, “A Clockwork Blue: How the Left Has Come to Excuse Away and Embrace Political Violence,” I felt as though he had written it just for me; this, because he called to account institutions and individuals who proclaim violence from the left justified, a trend I found maddening when I covered 150+ nights of violent street protests in Portland in 2020.

    And about that: How long did Rothman think that violence would have been explained away had it been committed by the right?

    "Hours," he said.

    In a discussion that calls out violence on all sides, Rothman addresses the roots of political barbarism, how the power of crowds can lead well-adjusted people to commit orgies of violence, the juvenile cop-out of making avatars of people in order to justify brutality against them, and some especial opprobrium for the intellectual and spiritual poverty that makes a hero of Luigi Mangione, who, weeks after murdering UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson, was given a round of applause by an SNL audience.

    “The point of this piece is a call for political consistency,” said Rothman. “Only when we have consistency will we see a decline in political violence.”

    Noah Rothman is a senior writer for National Review. He is the author of Unjust: Social Justice and the Unmaking of America (Regnery, 2019) and The Rise of the New Puritans: Fighting Back Against Progressives’ War on Fun (HarperCollins, 2022). His work has been published in USA Today, the Washington Examiner, the New York Post, the New York Times, the Atlantic, the Washington Post, and elsewhere. Follow on Twitter/X at NoahCRothman

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    Nancy and Sarah dive into the messy New York magazine cover story on literary superstar Neil Gaiman, accused of sexual assault by multiple women. The story broke over the summer in a British podcast — which Nancy and Sarah listened to, and much preferred — and they zero in on the story’s different presentations and ethical tangles. It’s a tale of celebrity, status-seeking, boundarilessness, and cruelty. But is it criminal? Let’s discuss.

    Also discussed:

    * Joe Biden made a speech

    * Bathtub as flytrap

    * If I serve you a steak, and you write to tell me you loved it, then logically do I:

    * Serve you another steak

    * Assume you don’t really like steak and only told me you did so we can keep hanging out

    * Report me because I pressed the steak on you while knowing you hated steak

    * What does logic have to do with it?

    * To be clear: We are anti-vagina whipping

    * Do women want sexual freedom, to be protected class — or both?

    * Please don’t trot out experts to support your insupportable point

    * Nancy knee-jerks over journalism

    * Is consent really black and white? And if so, why has it spawned five million think pieces and hours of podcasts like this?

    * Jon Ronson puts Sarah to sleep but “in a loving way.”

    * “If my literary hero appeared to me when I was 22 when I happened to be hot and not a binge-drinking chubby lonely-heart watching Real World marathons while hungover on the futon 
”

    Plus, Sarah hates the “cup of tea” consent video, some love for fact-checkers, the 1-minute video that’s made Nancy laugh 20 times, and much more!

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    Be warned, beloveds: Lots of sex talk here; hide the kiddies and the squeamish. Also! Due to some ghost in the machine, our last episode, “Meghan Daum on What We've Lost in the Los Angeles Wildfires,” may have included a paywall that we did not put there. It is free for all, and it’s fixed now.

    No worries if you haven’t seen “Babygirl,” the erotic drama wherein a tightly wound CEO with an Instagram-perfect life (Nicole Kidman) gets down and dirty with a much younger male intern (Harris Dickinson). Sarah and Nancy are discussing a lot more than just a movie: The nature of female desire, why domination fantasies are so taboo, and whether masochism is threaded into the female sexual experience. (Sweeping generalizations alert!)

    Also discussed:

    * Nancy’s name makes a comeback and she can’t take it

    * Consent does not line up with desire

    * The thing about negging is 


    * Don Draper, feminist icon?

    * All hail Showgirls, the best-worst movie ever

    * Nancy likes to wrestle

    * The orgasm gap

    * Why does a man buy a woman a steak?

    * Nancy Friday’s My Secret Garden

    * Define “hypergamy”

    Plus, Nancy picks an “obscure book” for her hotbox only to find it has 105,000 reviews on Amazon, a male companion robot that looks like Harry Dean Stanton, “Freedom for Scotland!” and much more

    Are there heretofore unexperienced pleasures when you become a paid subscriber? One way to find out

    We might be paywalling this episode, but we’re not monsters


  • Essayist and Unspeakable pod host Meghan Daum joins Nancy and Sarah to talk about the worst fires ever recorded in Southern California — what it was like to learn that her house in Altadena burned down, the blame game that both sides are playing, the surreal celebrity angle, and why you don’t actually have to tweet.



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    “I am still waiting for my bathrobe, and until you give it to me, I am going to be forced to do this podcast in the nude,” Kat Rosenfield tells Nancy and Sarah, who really need to move on this gift they keep promising her for repeat appearances. Kat is here to discuss her recent Free Press column on Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, “a turducken of a story” about alleged misbehavior and creative control on the set of It Ends With Us. The stars’ dueling legal documents lit up social media over the holidays, but it’s 
 confusing. Kat sees it less as a “he said/she said," and more of a battle of PR narratives.

    Also discussed:

    * But who is Colleen Hoover?

    * “I have a series of really hot takes
”

    * Justin Baldoni: sexy or nah?

    * Nancy likes a dad bod

    * Is asking someone what they weigh “fat-shaming”?

    * “I have been taken on a journey of eroticism and repulsion, and that’s what I count on you for
”

    * Shades of Depp-Heard

    * Megan Twohey strikes again

    * “Astro-turfed pseudo-consensus”; rolls right off the tongue

    * How to pronounce “simulacram”?

    * Reflexive outrage: what is it good for?

    * Wait, that’s not Markle’s kitchen?

    * Ascribing a richness of interior life to people that they neither have nor deserve

    Plus, dry cake, Nancy’s failing face, a movie trailer that gives all the cringes, and much more!

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    Nancy and Sarah share their highs and lows from the year that was. Which movie did Nancy love, and Sarah despise? (Hint: It’s not the Bob Dylan movie.) Which book did Sarah love, even though Nancy finds the author “twee”? Plus, Sarah quizzes Nancy about momentous events in 2024, and Nancy mostly bombs, no cap.

    Also discussed:

    * “It’s always butter with you”

    * Was Joan Baez that hot?

    * The movie that set both Sarah and Nancy’s nerves on edge

    * What live televised event got a Taylor Swift bump?

    * Who was that guy that bombed at the Golden Globes, again?

    * Big love for Andy Mills

    * No Problematic Coffee

    * “As a childless cat lady 
”

    * Michael Moynihan’s Melania impersonation gets a run for its money

    Plus, knee-jerk Nancy on the year’s worst politician, Sarah panic-votes for macaroni and cheese, and more!

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    It’s the end of 2024, and Sarah and Nancy wonder if two recent media phenomena represent a paradigm shift in two areas: porn and the collective consciousness. On one side: “I’m Lily Phillips, and today I’m getting run through by a hundred guys.” On the other side: “This groundbreaking series challenges everything we think we know about communication and the human mind, inviting viewers to step into a reality where the impossible is not only possible but happening every day.”

    Yes, we’re talking about the YouTube documentary I Slept With 100 Men in One Day and the podcast The Telepathy Tapes, exploring the potentially telepathic abilities of nonverbal autists. What do these two things have in common? Join us to find out, in a conversation that veers from unexpected sex toys to Carl Jung. Also, Nancy cries about something other than journalism.

    Also discussed:

    * Nancy pens a viral tweet!

    * The how-to-fold-a-fitted-sheet debate

    * Wait, there are drones over LA, too?

    * Sarah wants Nancy to start an OnlyPans page

    * The orange street cone goes into WHAT, now?

    * Lily Phillips’ understatement of the year: “I don’t know if I’d recommend it”

    * The arrogance of thinking we know everything about science

    * When Freud and Jung parted ways 


    * Babe Paley’s husband

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    Nancy and Sarah discuss the very online experience of watching both the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson and the capture of the man named as his killer, Luigi Mangione. We discuss the memes, conspiracies, tasteless jokes, and crushes on the alleged shooter. Did the tragic incident offer a pressure-valve release to Americans frustrated by a limping healthcare system, or is it an inflection point for something more dangerous? And how should we feel when murder becomes entertainment?

    Also discussed:

    * The Daniel Penny verdict

    * The floating-in-space feeling between election and inauguration

    * Activism ain’t what it used to be

    * “Will you forgive me for loving to say his name?”

    * Piers Morgan, the Jerry Springer of political shows

    * “The brain is a dangerous thing”

    * Bonnie & Clyde and glamorous crime

    * “Desire knows no ethics”

    * The detail that helps Luigi Mangione’s capture in a McDonald’s make sense

    * Caitlin Flanagan, the master storyteller

    * “What will survive of us is love”

    * Did Sonny Liston take a dive?

    Plus, Sarah’s brain makes “popcorn” in the middle of the night, Nancy thinks CBD makes her sing better, Ben Dreyfuss talks with Taylor Lorenz (let’s listen), and more!

    As the poet says, what will survive of us is love. As the podcasters say, we survive only if you become a paid subscriber

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    Smoke ‘Em welcomes favorite repeat guest and self-proclaimed “absolute newspaper romantic” Matt Welch. He talks with Nancy and Sarah about whether legacy papers can ever make a comeback and how they ignore local news at their own peril, plus whether civility might be on the upswing.

    Also discussed:

    * Pink hair don’t care

    * How the Los Angeles Times “changed the physical landscape of the West.”

    * Scott Jennings joins the editorial board at the LA Times. And?

    * “Like perestroika, incivility starts in the home”

    * They’re still counting votes in California!

    * Is activism dead or just sleeping?

    * “Throw any Russian in a skirt at Hegseth and he’s going to loosen his tie”

    * “A dark sky had fallen over Nantucket, Mass., on Saturday evening when President Biden left church alongside his family after his final Thanksgiving as president 
”

    * Meghan McCain, flashpoint

    * “Mono-politics is bad for governance”

    * Maybe people should disengage from politics and take up streaking and fart books?

    * People who voted for Kamala, but were pulling for Trump?

    * Nancy thinks “raw-dogging” means 


    * Sarah interviews Ken Burns, American treasure

    Also, a wretched New York Times “Ethicist” question, thoughts on why Biden pardoned his son, dick-shaped cookie cutters, and much more!

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    Nancy and Sarah discuss two recent dust-ups between men and women: One is fraught and potentially career-damaging, the other is (arguably) romantic, but also potentially legacy-damaging. Trump’s nominee to lead the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, is facing scandal that stems from a 2017 encounter at a Republican women’s convention, and the details are 
 confusing? Don’t really add up? Then we discuss the secret muse of Cormac McCarthy, 64-year-old Finnish lass Augusta Britt, who shares the story of her underage love affair (and lifelong connection) with McCarthy in a Vanity Fair story that was much-loved and much-trashed. Wanna guess where we fell?

    Also discussed:

    * Can anyone pronounce the last name Hegseth?

    * The detail that brought the case together for Nancy

    * Never name your bar “Knuckles”

    * What if he were in a blackout, and she wasn’t 


    * Cock-clock, crotch-block, what?

    * The two foods all men love

    * “We don’t get enough Finnish chutzpah”

    * “Well baby, that’s what I do. I’m a writer.”

    * Nancy just keeps vibrating

    * Purple prose? Bring it

    * The case of Joyce Maynard

    * Sarah is really mad at Wicked

    Plus, controversy over a writer’s hair, Nancy’s stuffing recipe, and more!