Afleveringen
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Wall Street thought Donald Trump was bluffing about his tariff plans. The stock market rallied after his election. But the reality has started setting in. Trump is doubling down on tariffs, even as he warned Americans that the economy may experience a âperiod of transition,â insisting this is just short-term pain.
So what exactly is Trumpâs theory here? And how much pain should we expect?
Answering those questions requires a bit of a tariffs primer. And the economist Kimberly Clausing kindly agreed to come on the show, walk through the basics, and help me make sense of what Trump is doing here. Clausing has modeled the possible costs and consequences of the tariffs Trump has proposed, and she breaks down how much you and I might end up paying. Clausing is a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, a professor at U.C.L.A. and the author of âOpen: The Progressive Case for Free Trade, Immigration, and Global Capital.â
This conversation contains strong language.
Note: This conversation was recorded on Wednesday, March 5.
Mentioned:
Weâre taping an âAsk Me Anythingâ episode soon. You can email me at [email protected] with a question. Please use the subject like âAMA.â Weâll consider any questions that are shared by the end of the day on Tuesday March 18.
âThe Real Reason President Trump Pushes Tariffsâ by Kimberly Clausing
Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson
Abundance book tour
Book Recommendations:
The Undoing Project by Michael Lewis
Mountains Beyond Mountains by Tracy Kidder
The Worldly Philosophers by Robert L. Heilbroner
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Pat McCusker.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Right-wing populism thrives on scarcity. The answer is abundance. But a politics of abundance will work only if Democrats confront where their approach has failed.
This audio essay is adapted from my forthcoming book, âAbundance,â which I wrote with Derek Thompson. You can preorder it here. And learn more about our book tour here.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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The economy has started blinking red. President Trumpâs tariffs have been roiling markets. Consumer sentiment was already down. G.D.P. forecasts are predicting slower growth. And on Tuesday night Trump declared to Congress and the nation that things had never been better.
Something was different about this speech. The level of baldfaced lying. The way Republicans cheered along. How uncomfortable and uncertain Democrats seemed. It was as if, watching it all, you could feel something rupturing.
My editor, Aaron Retica, joins me to talk through Trumpâs fifth address to Congress.
This episode contains strong language.
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Artificial general intelligence â an A.I. system that can beat humans at almost any cognitive task â is arriving in just a couple of years. Thatâs what people tell me â people who work in A.I. labs, researchers who follow their work, former White House officials. A lot of these people have been calling me over the last couple of months trying to convey the urgency. This is coming during President Trumpâs term, they tell me. Weâre not ready.
One of the people who reached out to me was Ben Buchanan, the top adviser on A.I. in the Biden White House. And I thought it would be interesting to have him on the show for a couple reasons: Heâs not connected to an A.I. lab, and he was at the nerve center of policymaking on A.I. for years. So what does he see coming? What keeps him up at night? And what does he think the Trump administration needs to do to get ready for the AGI â or something like AGI â he believes is right on the horizon?
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âMachines of Loving Graceâ by Dario Amodei
âNinety-five theses on AIâ by Samuel Hammond
âWhat It Means to be Kind in a Cruel Worldâ by The Ezra Klein Show with George Saunders
Book recommendations:
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn
Rise of the Machines by Thomas Rid
A Swim in a Pond in the Rain by George Saunders
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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If youâre looking for a single-sentence summation of the change in Americaâs foreign policy under Donald Trump, you could do worse than what Trump said on Wednesday:
âThe European Union was formed in order to screw the United States. Thatâs the purpose of it. And theyâve done a good job of it. But now Iâm president.â
Trump seems to loathe Americaâs traditional European allies even as he warms relations with Russia. Heâs threatened tariffs on Canada and Mexico while softening his rhetoric on China. And he seems fixated on the idea of territorial expansion â whether itâs the Panama Canal, Greenland or even Gaza.
There is a âTrump doctrineâ emerging here. Itâs one that could be glimpsed dimly in Trumpâs first term but is exploding to the fore in his second. What will it mean for the world? What will it mean for the United States?
Fareed Zakaria is the host of CNNâs âFareed Zakaria GPS,â a columnist for The Washington Post and the author of the best-selling âAge of Revolutions.â Heâs one of the clearest foreign policy thinkers around, and he doesnât disappoint here.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âThe Rise of Illiberal Democracyâ by Fareed Zakaria
Book Recommendations:
The Jungle Grows Back by Robert Kagan
Diplomacy by Henry Kissinger
The Wise Men by Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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In 2016, when Donald Trump won the first time, a little-known book became an unexpected phenomenon. It was âThe Revolt of the Public,â self-published two years earlier by a former C.I.A. media analyst, Martin Gurri. Gurri, who is now a visiting research fellow at the Mercatus Center, argued that a revolution in how information flowed was driving political upheavals in country after country: The dynamics of modern media ecosystems naturally created distrust toward institutions and elites, and this was fueling waves of revolt against the status quo. The problem, though, was that though these dynamics could destroy existing political systems, they could not build enduring replacements.
Gurriâs book has been on my mind over the past year. In some ways, it explains 2024 better than it explains 2016. But time didnât just change Gurriâs book; it changed Gurri. After refusing to cast a ballot for president in 2016 and 2020, he voted for Donald Trump in 2024. And in his writing for The Free Press, The New York Post and elsewhere, heâs been arguing that Trumpâs second term might herald the mastery of this new informational world and the emergence of an enduring new political system.
I found myself more convinced by Gurriâs old theory than his new one. So I asked him on the show to talk about it.
(Also: If youâre interested in joining Ezra Klein on his book tour in March and April, you can see the stops and get tickets for the events here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/p/abundance-tour)
Book Recommendations:
Postjournalism and the Death of Newspapers by Andrey Mir.
Why Most Things Fail by Paul Ormerod
Not Born Yesterday by Hugo Mercier
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Switch and Board Podcast Studio.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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After the elections, I started asking congressional Democrats the same question: If the elections had gone the other way, if they had won a trifecta, what would be their first big bill? In almost every case, they said they didnât know. Thatâs a problem.
Democrats are in the opposition now. That means fighting the worst of what Trump is doing. But it also means providing an alternative. So one thing Iâm going to do this year is talk to Democrats who are trying to find that alternative â an agenda that meets the challenges of the moment, not just one carried from the past.
Representative Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts is the first up to bat. We spoke in January, so we donât cover the latest Trump news. The conversation is really focused on his ideas, and he has a lot of interesting ones â about the abundance agenda, the attention economy and how Democrats should talk about policy during a second Trump term. I donât necessarily agree with every idea he offers, but heâs definitely wrestling with that question I posed to other Democrats: What is your alternative?
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âThe Problem With Everything-Bagel Liberalismâ by Ezra Klein
Book Recommendations:
âHow Mathematics Built the Modern Worldâ by Bo Malmberg and Hannes Malmberg
Radical Markets by Eric A. Posner and E. Glen Weyl
What Hath God Wrought by Daniel Walker Howe
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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What happens when ambition no longer checks ambition?
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This audio essay for âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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We are moving into the next phase of Donald Trumpâs presidency. Phase 1 was the blitz of executive actions. Now comes the response from the other parts of the government â namely, the courts.
A slew of judges, some of them Republican appointees, have frozen a number of the administrationâs most aggressive actions: the destruction of U.S.A.I.D., the spending freeze, DOGEâs access to the Treasury payments system and the executive order to end birthright citizenship, to name just a few.
The administration has largely â though not entirely â been abiding by these court decisions. Over the weekend, Vice President JD Vance suggested it might stop. âJudges arenât allowed to control the executiveâs legitimate power,â he posted. Down that path lies a true constitutional crisis.
So what happens if the Trump administration simply tells the courts to shove it? And what other pushback and opposition is the administration beginning to face across the government? Quinta Jurecic, a senior editor at Lawfare, joins me to talk it through.
Mentioned:
âThe Situation: Whatâs Going on at the FBI?â by Benjamin Wittes
Book Recommendations:
A Survivorâs Education by Joy Neumeyer
The Rebel by Albert Camus
Race and Reunion by David W. Blight
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Elon Musk has been on a slash-and-burn tear through the federal government â gaining access to I.T. systems, dismantling U.S.A.I.D. and unleashing a firehose of attacks on his platform, X, accusing the bureaucracy of various conspiratorial crimes.
As this all unfolds before our eyes, itâs hard to believe that Musk, not that long ago, was a conventional Obama-era liberal. How did a guy who cared about climate change and going to Mars, whose companies were buoyed by government largess, become Donald Trumpâs most unapologetic soldier? What does he hope to do with all this power? What does Musk want?
Kara Swisher has been reporting on Musk for decades and is one of the great tech reporters of our age. She hosts the podcasts âOn With Kara Swisherâ and âPivot,â with Scott Galloway, and is the author of âBurn Book: A Tech Love Story.â
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âWhatâs Wrong With Donald Trump?â by Ezra Klein
âThe Men and (No) Women Facebook of Facebook Managementâ by Kara Swisher
Book Recommendations:
North Woods by Daniel Mason
On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder
Memorial Days by Geraldine Brooks
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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There are two pieces to this episode. First, a tour of what Donald Trump has done â and what he has backed down from doing â over the last few days. Thereâs a lesson there. Perhaps Democrats are starting to learn it.
Then I wanted to hear the view of Trumpâs first weeks back in office from someone on the right â someone who agrees with many of Trumpâs policies, but also understands how the government works and who cares about our Constitution.
Yuval Levin is the director of social, cultural and constitutional studies at the American Enterprise Institute. His latest book is âAmerican Covenant: How the Constitution Unified Our Nation â and Could Again.â What struck me about our conversation is that, on the one hand, Levin is less alarmed about much of whatâs happening than I am. But on the other hand, heâs a lot less impressed by what Trump is actually getting done â and how these moves are likely to work out for him â than most Democrats I know. Itâs a perspective very much worth hearing.
Mentioned:
âDonât Believe Himâ by Ezra Klein
Book Recommendations:
The Rhetorical Presidency by Jeffrey K. Tulis
Why Congress by Philip Wallach
The Extinction of Experience by Christine Rosen
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Look closely at the first two weeks of Donald Trumpâs second term and youâll see something very different than what he wants you to see.
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This audio essay for âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Jack McCordick. Mixing by Isaac Jones. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Aman Sahota. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Aaron Retica.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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MAGA has long been hostile to Big Tech. So now that Big Tech is shifting rightward, what does that mean for MAGA?
âWeâre seeing a true political coalition having to navigate very, very big questions about how to keep themselves together,â James Pogue told me. Heâs a contributing writer at Times Opinion who has been covering the intellectual ferment on the New Right for years. And he just published a great piece about the tensions between the techno-optimists and skeptics within the MAGA coalition.
In this conversation, we cover a lot: How the New Rightâs intellectual scene has evolved, the renewed fascination with Ted Kaczynskiâs manifesto, why some of the most passionate critics of tech are also the most online, how Robert F. Kennedy Jr. fits into this world, the New Rightâs ideas about masculinity and how much Donald Trump cares about any of this.
Recommendations:
Regime Change by Patrick Deneen
âGodâs Socialistâ by Darryl Cooper
Between Two Fires by Stephen Pyne
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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On the first day of President Trumpâs second term, he signed a record 26 executive orders. Some of them were really big. Others feel more likely messaging memos. And still others are bound to be held up in the courts. So what does it all amount to? What exactly in America has changed?
In a former life, I co-hosted a podcast called âThe Weedsâ with other policy wonks at Vox, including Dara Lind and Matthew Yglesias. Weâve since gone our separate ways; Lind is currently a senior fellow at the American Immigration Council, and Yglesias is the author of the Substack newsletter Slow Boring. But since this was such a big policy week, I wanted to get some of the band back together.
In this conversation, we discuss how much Trumpâs immigration orders will actually change our immigration system; whether any of Trumpâs orders address Americansâ concerns over prices; how serious Trump actually is about tariffs; and more.
Book Recommendations:
The Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis
Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
Everyone Who Is Gone Is Here by Jonathan Blitzer
Left Adrift by Timothy Shenk
Why Nothing Works by Marc J. Dunkelman
Middlemarch by George Eliot
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Thereâs a quieter transition happening beneath the pageantry of this weekâs inaugural events â a transition not of power per se but of the rules around how power in Washington works. And the new rules look very different from the old ones.
In this conversation, Iâm joined by Aaron Retica, an editor at large for New York Times Opinion (and my column editor), to discuss what President Trumpâs inaugural address and first round of executive orders signal about the administration to come. We talk about the end of birthright citizenship and the renegotiation of American belonging, why Trump is so fixated on Greenland and the Panama Canal, his retro-futurist vision of American power, the unsettling arrival of a new tech oligarchy and more.
Mentioned:
âWhatâs Wrong with Donald Trump?â by Ezra Klein
âDemocrats Are Losing the War for Attention. Badly.â by The Ezra Klein Show, with Chris Hayes
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Trump is a master at wielding attention. Heâs been owning news cycles and squatting in Americansâ minds for much of the last decade. And for his second term he has an ally in Elon Musk, a man with a similar uncanny skill set.
Trump and Musk seem to have figured out something about how attention works in our fragmented media age â and how to use it for political and cultural power â that Democrats simply havenât. So what is it? What do they understand about attention that their opponents donât?
Chris Hayes is the host of MSNBCâs âAll In,â and has written a forthcoming book, âThe Sirens' Call: How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource.â And heâs a brilliant thinker on how our modern attention economy works and what itâs doing to our politics.
We discuss what Hayes sees as a revolution happening to our attention, which he compares to the Industrial Revolution in its scale and impact; why the old rules about attention in politics no longer apply; the key insight Trump had about attention that fueled his rise; why Musk didnât really overpay for Twitter; and how Democrats can compete in this new attentional world.
Mentioned:
âYour Mind Is Being Frackedâ by The Ezra Klein Show with D. Graham Burnett
âThe Great Crypto Crashâ by Annie Lowrey
Book Recommendations:
Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman
How to Do Nothing by Jenny Odell
Rejection by Tony Tulathimutte
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Joe Biden wanted to show Americans that there was a better path than Trumpism. He worked to build a âforeign policy for the middle class.â He centered industrial policy. He took a more competitive tack with China. He kept America out of wars. The hope was that if Americans saw foreign policy serving their interests, then that would dim the appeal of someone like Donald Trump.
Then Trump won again â stronger than ever.
Jake Sullivan is Bidenâs national security adviser and one of the key architects of this foreign policy for the middle class. In this conversation, I ask him to walk me through why he thinks the country is better off today than it was four years ago. We discuss the status of Americaâs relationship with China and the risk of a future war; whether the U.S. should have used its leverage to force Ukraine to the negotiating table; how the enormous arms support of Israel serves U.S. interests; what Trumpâs re-election says about Bidenism; and more.
Mentioned:
Brookings speech
Book Recommendations:
Science, the Endless Frontier by Vannevar Bush
Nexus by Yuval Noah Harari
The Situation Room by George Stephanopoulos
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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The preview weâve had into Donald Trumpâs second administration already feels, by American standards, disturbingly abnormal: Picking a former âFox and Friendsâ host for defense secretary. Billionaire after billionaire trekking to Mar-a-Lago to curry favor with the president-elect. The Washington Post withholding an opposing endorsement. Meta ending its third-party fact-checking.
But all of this is actually pretty normal â not in the U.S. but in many other countries. Researchers call them personalist regimes, in which everything is a transaction with the leader, whether itâs party politics or policymaking or the media. Itâs a style of politics that follows different rules, but there are still rules. And understanding personalist politics, and their tried-and-true playbook, is a way to help make the next four years legible.
Todayâs guest is one of the leading scholars on personalist regimes, in both their democratic and their authoritarian forms. Erica Frantz is a political scientist at Michigan State University and a the co-author, with Andrea Kendall-Taylor and Joseph Wright, of âThe Origins of Elected Strongmen: How Personalist Parties Destroy Democracy From Within.â In this conversation, we discuss what personalist regimes are and how they operate, the personalist qualities of Trump and the signs of democratic backsliding that Frantz thinks Americans need to track in the coming weeks and years.
This episode contains strong language.
Book Recommendations:
Dictators at War and Peace by Jessica L. P. Weeks
Autocracy Rising by Javier Corrales
The Trumpiad by Cody Walker
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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I like to begin each year with an episode about something Iâm working through more personally. And at the end of last year, the thing I needed to work through was a pretty bad case of burnout.
So I picked up Oliver Burkemanâs latest book, âMeditations for Mortals: Four Weeks to Embrace Your Limitations and Make Time for What Counts.â Burkemanâs big idea, which he also explores in his best seller âFour Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals,â is that the desire to be more productive, to squeeze out the most from each day, to try to feel on top of our lives, is ultimately insatiable. He argues that addressing burnout requires a shift in outlook â accepting that our time and energy are finite, and that there will always be something more to do. In other words: What if you began with a deeper appreciation of your own limits? How, then, would you live?
Burkemanâs book is structured as 28 short essays on this question. In this conversation, I ask him to walk me through some of them. We discuss what burnout is; what it means to accept your limitations and let go of control; the messages children absorb about productivity and work; navigating the overwhelm of information and news; and more.
This episode contains strong language.
Mentioned:
âHow Millennials Became The Burnout Generationâ by Anne Helen Petersen
Rest by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang
âStop. Breathe. We Canât Keep Working Like This.â with Cal Newport on âThe Ezra Klein Showâ
âThe Man Who Knew Too Littleâ by Sam Dolnick
Book Recommendations:
The Uncontrollability of the World by Hartmut Rosa
Fully Alive by Elizabeth Oldfield
Death by Joan Tollifson
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The showâs production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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I have a tendency to end the year feeling pretty worn out. And thatâs partly because I struggle to rest properly throughout the year, to build rest into a routine and stick to it.
Thatâs how I was feeling at the end of 2022, when we originally taped this episode. And itâs certainly how Iâm feeling at the end of this year, so this felt like a valuable episode to revisit.
Judith Shulevitzâs wonderful book, âThe Sabbath World: Glimpses of a Different Order of Time,â draws out lessons from the Jewish ritual of the Sabbath that everyone can benefit from, regardless of whether youâre Jewish or religious at all. The Sabbath, as commonly practiced, involves taking a day a week off from work, turning off your phone and spending a lot of time with family and your community. To Shulevitz, thereâs a radicalism in this ritual â a stinging critique of the speed at which we live our lives, the ways we choose to spend our time and how we think about the idea of rest itself. She sees the Sabbath as more than just taking a break from the world, but also as an act of creating a different one. I left the conversation feeling awed by how such an ancient practice can contain wisdom that feels so urgent right now. I hope you enjoy â and that at the end of this year, you find time for some true rest.
Mentioned:
The Sabbath by Abraham Joshua Heschel
I and Thou by Martin Buber
Book Recommendations:
Adam Bede by George Eliot
The Seven Day Circle by Eviatar Zerubavel
On the Clock by Emily Guendelsberger
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Guest suggestions? Fill out this form.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.
This episode of âThe Ezra Klein Showâ was produced by Emefa Agawu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. The showâs production time also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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