Afleveringen
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Why is it so hard to stop people playing vides, music or phone calls out loud on public transport â and what does that tell us about changing human behaviour?
Show Summary
This episode of The Human Risk Podcast is a little different. It is a cross-cast from The Freewheeling Podcast, hosted by Thomas Ableman, in which I join Thomas to tackle a problem raised by the show's most important listener: his mum.
The issue? People using phones, videos, music and speaker calls out loud on trains and buses. What begins as a seemingly small transport etiquette problem quickly becomes a much bigger conversation about social norms, antisocial behaviour, customer experience, incentives, enforcement and the limits of signage. In our discussion, we explore why simply telling people to stop may not work, how reactance can make things worse, and why transport operators need to think more creatively about behaviour change.
Along the way, we consider quiet carriages, âelectronic entertainment carriagesâ, cheap headphones, better-targeted messaging, staff intervention, social media campaigns and the wider question of whether public transport operators are responsible for the behaviour of the humans they carry.
The Freewheeling Podcast
The Freewheeling Podcast is a show for transport change-makers. It explores how we can move forwards faster, bringing listeners fresh voices, new ideas and unconventional thinking.
While it has a strong focus on transport and mobility, the show also ranges into entrepreneurship, politics, public policy, cities and how systems can be designed to work better for the people who use them.
Links
The Freewheeling Podcast - https://www.freewheeling.info/the-freewheeling-podcast
Thomas on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasableman/ -
What if the best way to improve cybersecurity â or any other form of human risk â wasn't another policy, training course, or piece of technology, but a board game? That's the kind of question my guest, Jill Wick, loves asking.
Episode Summary
Jill is a cybersecurity awareness consultant, business psychologist, podcaster, and author. Her work sits at the intersection of psychology, marketing, behavioural science, and cybersecurity, and she is passionate about helping organisations understand that security is fundamentally a human challenge, not simply a technical one.
Drawing on her experience in fraud prevention and her academic background in business psychology, Jill explains why traditional approaches to awareness often fail, why experimentation matters, and how a simple Snakes and Ladders-inspired game can create meaningful conversations about risk and decision-making.
The discussion ranges far beyond cybersecurity. We explore creativity, curiosity, communication, organisational culture, social media, learning, and the challenge of measuring success when the outcome you're seeking is something that doesn't happen.
Key Topics
In this episode, we discuss:
Why cybersecurity is ultimately a human problem rather than a technology problemThe psychology behind phishing, scams, and social engineeringWhy more policies and more training often fail to change behaviourHow unclear policies can create confusion instead of complianceThe role of curiosity, creativity, and experimentation in risk managementHow games can create psychologically safe environments for learningThe importance of conversation and peer learning in awareness programmesWhat compliance, safety, conduct, and operational risk professionals can learn from cybersecurity awarenessWhy awareness professionals should think more like marketersThe value of experimentation, iteration, and A/B testingHow social media can help build communities around important ideasWhy measuring engagement may be just as important as measuring failuresGuest Biography
Jill Wick is a cybersecurity awareness consultant, business psychologist, author, and podcast host who specialises in the human side of cybersecurity. Drawing on a background in fraud prevention and behavioural science, she helps organisations build stronger security cultures through creative, engaging approaches that go beyond traditional training and compliance. Known for her innovative use of games, psychology, and marketing techniques, Jill is a passionate advocate for making cybersecurity awareness more human, effective, and enjoyable
Links
Jill's LinkedIn profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-wick/
Jill's website - https://www.jillwick.com/
Cyber & Psych, Jill's podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/5uteiqHvCTGCVtCsKCzGJ6?si=322ef51fd6a3423c&nd=1&dlsi=c6d8309550784df9
Security-Awareness-Tools, Jill's book - https://www.isbn.de/buch/9783658511111/security-awareness-tools
AI-Generated Timestamped Outline
00:00 â Introduction02:15 â Jill's background: From fraud prevention and business psychology to cybersecurity awareness.05:30 â Understanding why people fall for scams, phishing attacks, and social engineering.06:00 â Why cybersecurity is fundamentally a human problem, not just a technical one.08:00 â The limitations of rules, policies, and traditional awareness training.12:00 â The origin of Jill's cybersecurity board game and why simplicity matters.14:00 â How games create psychologically safe conversations and improve learning.19:30 â The game as a conversation tool: building culture, peer learning, and engagement.22:00 â Creativity, curiosity, and the courage to experiment with new approaches.26:00 â What cybersecurity awareness can learn from marketing, advertising, and A/B testing.35:30 â Why awareness and technology must work together rather than compete.41:30 â New projects: workshops, events, games, and Jill's forthcoming book Security Awareness Tools.44:00 â Lessons for compliance and risk professionals: attention is a limited resource.51:00 â Measuring success: engagement, participation, reporting, and positive signals. -
Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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What can businesses learn from cults?
It might sound like an uncomfortable comparison: one involves strategy meetings, values statements and quarterly targets; the other manipulation, charismatic leaders and extreme behaviour. But perhaps the distinction isn't as clear as we'd like to think. Both create identities and shared beliefs. Both shape how people think and behave. And both can evolve gradually in ways that are hard to recognise from the inside.
Unhealthy cultures rarely appear overnight. Small compromises become normal, difficult questions become harder to ask, and behaviours that once felt uncomfortable slowly become accepted.
Episode Overview
On this episode, I'm joined by Tobias Sturesson, culture advisor and author of You Can Culture, whose understanding of organisational culture comes not from business school, but from a deeply personal experience growing up inside a religious community that gradually evolved into a cult.
Drawing on his own story â and his work helping organisations create healthier cultures â Tobias explains why good people can become part of unhealthy systems, why speaking up is often far harder than leaders realise, and why culture is shaped far less by mission statements than by the everyday behaviours people learn to accept.
We also explore:
How communities and organisations can slowly drift into unhealthy patternsWhy leaving damaging environments is often much harder than outsiders imagineThe role of sunk costs, identity and belonging in keeping people trappedWhy organisations often mistake symptoms for root causesThe difference between âtone from the topâ and âexample from the topâWhy humility may be one of the most underrated leadership traitsThe dangers of leaders creating the appearance of listening without genuinely hearing peopleWhy culture initiatives often fail to create lasting behavioural changeHow everyday leadership habits shape organisational cultureWhy discomfort is often necessary for growthGuest Profile - Tobias Sturesson
Tobias is a culture advisor, speaker and author focused on helping organisations build healthier cultures and develop more responsible leadership practices. His work combines personal experience with research and practical interventions designed to help organisations identify and address the root causes that undermine cultural health. He is the author of You Can Culture: Transformative Leadership Habits for a Thriving Workplace, Positive Impact and Lasting Success.
Links
Tobias on LinkedIn â https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiassturesson/
Heart Management - https://www.heartmanagement.org/
Tobias' Book: You Can Culture â https://youcanculture.com/
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â Introduction: What can cults teach us about culture?
03:00 â Tobias's story of growing up inside a community that became a cult
08:30 â How unhealthy environments evolve gradually
11:00 â Why leaving can be harder than joining
13:00 â The importance of people who help without judging
16:00 â Turning personal experience into professional purpose
19:00 â Why organisations often misunderstand their own problems
23:00 â Humility as a leadership strength
26:00 â The tension between expertise and curiosity
29:00 â Why business systems often reward the wrong behaviours
33:00 â The importance of listening and asking better questions
38:00 â Why reflection matters in fast-moving environments
42:00 â Culture as everyday conversations and habits
45:00 â Leadership signals and behavioural norms
49:00 â Building healthier cultures through leadership habits
53:00 â Why changing culture is difficult but necessary
56:00 â Creating a movement for healthier leadership -
What makes great service? Itâs one of those things we instantly recognise when we experience it, but struggle to define. And while organisations spend huge amounts of time trying to design seamless customer experiences, the reality is that service doesnât happen in strategy documents or training manuals. It happens in real time, between real people, in messy and unpredictable situations where eventually the playbook runs out.
Episode Overview
In this episode, Christian is joined by Will Tarrant, CEO of Freeman Group, who focus on helping organisations close the gap between what they promise customers and what actually gets delivered in reality.
Drawing on decades of experience across hospitality, aviation, healthcare and destinations, Will explains why compliance-based training can sometimes increase hidden risk, why empowerment without judgment can quickly become chaos, and why the real differentiator in service is rarely the process itself â itâs the human response when something unexpected happens.
Along the way, the conversation explores:
Why âmaking people feel a certain wayâ is the real job in hospitalityThe hidden risks created by over-reliance on scripts and SOPsWhy organisations often confuse solving problems with compensating customersThe psychology of customer perception and expectationHow hotels, airports and even destinations manage emotional experiencesWhy breakfast might be the best indicator of a hotelâs qualityThe tension between automation and human interactionWhy good service recovery is about judgment, not generosityAs Will puts it: âCompliance-based training reduces visible risk, but it increases hidden risk.â
Although framed around hospitality and customer service, this episode is really about something much broader: how humans make decisions when the script no longer applies.
Guest Profile - Will Tarrant
Will Tarrant is the CEO of Freeman Group, a consultancy that helps organisations design and deliver service cultures that align operational reality with brand promise. The company works globally across hospitality, aviation, healthcare, retail and tourism destinations.
LinksWill on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/willtarrant/
Freeman Group website - https://freemangroupsolutions.com/
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â Introduction: Why service failures create risk02:30 â Closing the gap between promise and reality07:00 â Hospitality is about making people feel something11:30 â The hidden risk of compliance-based training13:00 â What happens when the playbook runs out15:00 â Scripts, authenticity and service style16:00 â Measuring service quality19:00 â Perception is reality20:00 â Why empowerment needs structure22:00 â Seeing service everywhere24:00 â The timeless mechanics of good service26:00 â Automation versus human interaction29:00 â âThe customer is always your customerâ30:00 â Solving problems versus compensating customers33:00 â Inheriting other peopleâs problems36:00 â Hiring for judgment, not just experience39:00 â The changing status of hospitality careers43:00 â Humans as the source of unpredictability47:00 â Why hotel breakfast matters50:00 â Choice overload and decision fatigue53:00 â Applying service thinking beyond hospitality55:00 â The gap between marketing and operational reality -
What if prediction isnât about knowing the future, but controlling it? On this episode, I'm joined by a leading thinker on digital ethics, privacy and technology to explore the idea of prophecy.
Episode Summary
My guest is Dr Carissa VĂ©liz and in our discussion, we talk about humanityâs long-standing obsession with predicting what comes next, and why todayâs algorithms may be the most powerful (and dangerous) prophets weâve ever created.
From ancient oracles and court astrologers to modern AI systems and tech executives, we explore how prediction has always been less about knowledge and more about power. What becomes clear is that while the tools have changed, the underlying dynamics havenât. We still crave certainty, we still look for authority, and weâre still willing to trust those who claim to see the future. The difference now is scale: predictive technologies donât just forecast behaviour; they shape it. And the more accurate they appear, the less likely we are to question them.
We then explore responsibility. If prediction influences reality, then our willingness to accept it matters. This episode is a reminder that the future isnât something that simply happens to us, but something weâre actively participating in, whether we realise it or not.
Guest Bio
Dr Carissa VĂ©liz is Associate Professor of Philosophy at the Institute for Ethics in AI and a Fellow at Hertford College at the University of Oxford. She is a leading thinker on digital ethics, privacy, and technology. She is the author of several books including her latest release 'Prophecy: Prediction, Power and the Fight for the Future, from Ancient Oracles to AI' and 'Privacy Is Power: Why and How You Should Take Back Control of Your Data '
Her work explores how data, AI, and predictive systems reshape societyâoften in ways that are invisible but deeply consequential. Drawing on philosophy, history, and real-world systems, she examines how power operates through technology and what individuals and institutions can do to resist it.
AI-Generated TImestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Opening: prediction as something that shapesânot revealsâthe future[00:01:00] Why prophecy is a lens for understanding modern AI[00:04:00] Kings, prophets, and the risks of getting predictions wrong[00:06:00] Survival strategies of ancient astrologers[00:08:00] Why humans crave certaintyâand who exploits it[00:10:00] The danger of mistaking wealth for wisdom[00:12:00] Prediction as a tool of power throughout history[00:14:00] Surveillance as the foundation of modern prediction[00:16:00] How predictions shape behaviour (self-fulfilling dynamics)[00:17:00] Publishing as a case study in manufactured success[00:21:00] The strange economics of pre-orders and attention[00:23:00] Insurance: from solidarity to individualised risk[00:26:00] The hidden systemic risks of personalised prediction[00:30:00] Why citizens need to reclaim agency[00:31:00] Laziness vs values: why we default to algorithms[00:33:00] Tech creating problems it then claims to solve[00:34:00] The role of humour as truth-telling[00:35:00] Why algorithms would have killed Seinfeld[00:40:00] Practical alternatives: preparation over prediction[00:42:00] The importance of serendipity[00:43:00] Rediscovering the analogue world[00:46:00] Algorithms shaping culture and environments[00:48:00] Optimism vs doom in thinking about technology[00:50:00] Writing as exploration, not predictionLinks
Carissa's website - https://www.carissaveliz.com/
Her new book, Prophecy - https://www.carissaveliz.com/prophecy
Her previous book Privacy Is Power - https://www.carissaveliz.com/books
Carissa's faculty page - https://www.oxford-aiethics.ox.ac.uk/dr-carissa-veliz
Carissa on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/carissa-v%C3%A9liz-a5781555/ -
We like to think we choose what matters. But what if the goals weâre chasing⊠arenât actually ours?
Episode Summary
My guest on this episode is Dr. C. Thi Nguyen, philosopher and author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Elseâs Game, a book about how metrics, scoring systems, and âgamesâ shape our behaviourâoften without us realising it. Thi explains how his work on games led him to a deeper question: why do scoring systems make games feel meaningful, but make real life feel distorted? The answer lies in how metrics redefine successâquietly shifting us from what we care about to what we can measure.
In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore the idea of âvalue captureâ, why institutions rely on simplified proxies, and how the very features that make metrics useful also make them dangerous. We also discuss expertise, transparency, gamification, and why removing metrics altogether doesnât solve the problem. This is a conversation about control: who sets the rules, who keeps score, and what happens when we stop questioning the game weâre playing.
Guest Bio
Dr. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work explores how games, metrics, and social systems shape human behaviour and values. A professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, his research sits at the intersection of ethics, decision-making, and the philosophy of agency, with a particular focus on how the structures around us influence what we care about and how we act.
Alongside his academic work, Thi is also a keen gamer, rock climber, and cook; interests that inform his thinking about play, challenge, and the richness of human experience beyond what can be easily measured.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â Introduction: games, metrics, and meaning
03:00 â How Thi came to study games and philosophy
07:00 â What games are (and why they matter)
10:00 â Achievement vs striving play
13:00 â Cheating and misunderstanding the point of games
16:00 â Games, struggle, and meaningful activity
18:00 â Cooking, recipes, and rules
22:00 â Metrics as simplified rule systems
25:00 â Value capture and how metrics reshape goals
29:00 â Why institutions rely on measurement
32:00 â Quantification and loss of context
36:00 â Rules, algorithms, and expertise
40:00 â Standardisation and the cost of consistency
43:00 â Transparency, trust, and unintended consequences
47:00 â Metrics and the loss of expert judgment
50:00 â Ungrading and the limits of removing metrics
54:00 â Designing better scoring systems
58:00 â Gamification and why it misses the point
01:02:00 â Choosing your own game
01:06:00 â Final reflections and closing
Relevant Links
Thiâs personal website â https://objectionable.net/
His faculty page - https://profiles.faculty.utah.edu/u6021584
The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Elseâs Game - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/457380/the-score-by-nguyen-c-thi/9780241653975
Thi on Bluesky â https://bsky.app/profile/add-hawk.bsky.social -
We tend to assume that if weâre working hard, weâre working well. But what if that isnât true?
Episode Summary
My guest on this episode is Phil Dobson, author of The Brain Book and founder of Brain Workshops, about what he calls 'cognitive leadership': using neuroscience and psychology to help people sustain performance, think more clearly, and navigate uncertainty. Phil explains how a broken ankle led him from music and sales into hypnotherapy, neuroscience, and leadership development, and why he believes most of us are never properly taught how our brains actually work.
In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore the difference between productivity and effectiveness, why attention may be our most valuable asset, and how modern working life often undermines flow, creativity, and good decision-making. We also discuss stress, workload, digital distraction, the limits of measurement, and what organisations get wrong when they try to manage people as if more time always equals more value.
Discover how leaders can create better conditions for thinking, resilience, creativity, and change; and why understanding the human brain matters far beyond the workplace.
Episode Summaruy
why most of us are taught far too little about how our brains workPhilâs unusual route from musician to hypnotherapist to neuroscience-based leadership adviserthe difference between being productive and being effectivewhy self-employment sharpened Philâs focus on impact rather than activityhow experimentation, iteration, and reflection shape better ways of workingthe distinction between fun and fulfilmentflow states and why modern life makes them harder to accessthe growing importance of attention in a world of distractionwhy stress management has to include workload management, not just breathing techniqueshow rest, breaks, and so-called âunproductiveâ time often drive insight and creativitywhy measuring people too narrowly can damage performancehow understanding the brain helps leaders navigate change and uncertaintywhy improving human decision-making matters not just for performance, but for reducing costly mistakesAI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â Introduction: busyness vs effectiveness
02:00 â Philâs journey into cognitive leadership
07:00 â Productivity vs effectiveness (and the 80/20 shift)
12:00 â Experimentation, habits, and fulfilment
17:00 â Flow, focus, and attention under pressure
22:00 â Attention as a critical (and under threat) asset
27:00 â Why knowing isnât the same as doing
31:00 â Rethinking productivity: energy, creativity, and insight
36:00 â The neuroscience of better thinking (default mode network)
40:00 â Measurement, management, and leadership challenges
45:00 â Human performance beyond the workplace
50:00 â Human error, decision-making, and risk
55:00 â Evolving work: shorter weeks and smarter working
58:00 â Leading change with a brain-based approach
01:03:00 â Final reflections and closing
Relevant Links
Phil's website - https://phildobson.com/
Brain Workshops - https://brainworkshops.co.uk/
Phil on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brainworkshops/
The Brain Book - https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Book-Smarter-Concise-Advice/dp/1910649732 -
What lessons does a religious protest that led to an uprising in 1549 have to do with human risk?
At first glance, not very much. Itâs easy to see it as a distant historical event â something about religion, kings, and a very different world. But as my guest, Professor Mark Stoyle explains, the Western Rising of 1549 is far more than that. Itâs a powerful example of what happens when authority imposes change without understanding how people will react.
Episode Summary
This episode started on a train journey to Exeter, where I was due to give a talk. Looking for a local story to make my presentation more relevant, I stumbled across a battle that had taken place just outside the venue in 1549. The more I read, the clearer it became that this wasnât just history, it was a case study in compliance, behaviour, and unintended consequences.
Guest Profile
Mark is a historian and leading expert on what he calls the Western Rising of 1549. In this conversation, we explore how sweeping religious changes imposed by those in power triggered resistance, how small incidents escalated into a major rebellion, and why identity, belief, and emotion played such a critical role. Along the way, we discuss how history is written (and biased), why changing language can provoke outrage rather than acceptance, and what this story reveals about leadership, risk, and human behaviour today.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â Introduction: a compliance failure in 1549
01:00 â The train journey to Exeter
02:00 â Discovering the rebellion
04:00 â Why this is a human risk story
05:15 â Introducing Professor Mark Stoyle
07:30 â Setting the historical context
10:00 â Power, authority, and instability
13:30 â What triggered the rising
17:00 â Why language change caused outrage
22:00 â Early resistance and local incidents
25:00 â The tipping point: violence begins
29:00 â How the rebellion spreads
33:00 â The siege of Exeter
37:00 â How history is written by the victors
41:00 â Crushing the rebellion
45:00 â Cultural consequences and language loss
48:00 â Lessons for today
52:00 â Polarisation and modern parallels
57:00 â Final reflections In this episode we discuss
Key Topics
Why imposed change can trigger resistanceHow small incidents escalate into major crisesThe role of identity, belief, and emotion in decision-makingWhy language and culture matter in complianceHow authority can misjudge human behaviourThe dangers of polarisation and âus vs themâ thinkingWhy compromise becomes impossible in extreme positionsHow history is shaped by those who winThe unintended consequences of leadership decisionsWhat a 16th-century rebellion teaches us about modern riskGuest Profile
Mark Stoyle is Professor of History at the University of Southampton. He specialises in Tudor rebellions, the English Civil War, and the history of witchcraft. Originally from Devon, his work on the Western Rising of 1549 draws on decades of research and a deep personal connection to the region where these events took place.
Links
The Western Rising of 1549, Mark's book - https://yalebooks.co.uk/book/9780300276886/the-western-rising-of-1549/
Mark's University of Southampton profile page - https://www.southampton.ac.uk/people/5wyxqy/professor-mark-stoyle
Mark's publisher profile: - https://www.worldturnedupsidedown.co.uk/team/mark-stoyle/ -
What exactly is a sign? At first glance, that might sound like a strange question. Signs are everywhere: telling us where to go, what to do, what not to do, and sometimes what might happen if we ignore instructions. But as my guest, Jeffrey Ludlow Saentz explains, signs are much more than bits of information on walls or beside roads.
Episode Summary
Jeffrey is a signage designer who works on complex buildings and environments around the world â airports, offices, museums, and other places where helping people find their way really matters. Heâs also the author of A Sign Is..., a fascinating book exploring the history, meaning, and cultural significance of the signs that shape our everyday behaviour.
In this conversation, we explore why good signage is often invisible, how buildings âspeakâ to us through wayfinding systems, and what signs reveal about power, trust, and human behaviour. Along the way we discuss hacked traffic signs, casino design, airport navigation, and why something as simple as an arrow carries centuries of history.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â Introduction: why signs are more interesting than they first appear
03:00 â How Jeffrey became a signage designer
04:00 â The challenge of helping people navigate complex buildings
07:00 â What actually is a sign?
09:00 â Why âeverything can be a signâ
11:00 â The power dynamics behind signage and authority
13:00 â How designers observe signage in the real world
14:30 â Cultural differences in wayfinding and navigation
19:30 â Why Jeffrey wrote A Sign Is..
22:00 â The fascinating history of fire safety signage
24:00 â Curiosity and the stories hidden behind everyday signs
27:00 â Hacked construction signs and unexpected messages
31:00 â Trust, authority, and information on signs
35:00 â Advertising, nudging, and attention
36:00 â Information overload and competing signals
39:00 â The learned language of signs and symbols
41:00 â Why good signage is âinvisibleâ when it works
43:00 â Airports, trust, and wayfinding design
46:00 â How people become signage designers
47:30 â How casinos, airports, and museums use signs differently
50:00 â The psychology of navigation
54:00 â Why signage canât work perfectly for everyone
57:00 â Why wayfinding is an art rather than a science
01:02:00 â Jeffreyâs book A Sign Is and where to find it
01:04:00 â What signs might look like in the future In this episode we discuss
Key Topics
Why signage is a form of behavioural communicationHow buildings âtalkâ to people through wayfinding systemsThe psychology of navigation and spatial awarenessWhy good signage is invisibleHow casinos deliberately make navigation harderWhy museums minimise signs while airports maximise themThe cultural differences in how places are navigatedWhat hacked traffic signs reveal about trust in authorityWhy signs act as nudges that shape behaviourThe limits of signage when designing for large groupsHow digital navigation may change our relationship with physical signsAbout Jeffrey
Jeffrey Ludlow is a signage and wayfinding designer and founder of Point of Reference Studio, a design practice specialising in signage systems, environmental graphics, and branding for public environments. Trained as an architect, Jeffreyâs work sits at the intersection of architecture, graphic design, and behavioural psychology â helping people navigate complex spaces more intuitively. He is the author of A Sign Is, a book exploring the cultural, historical, and behavioural significance of the signs that surround us.
Links
Jeffrey's book 'A Sign Is...' - https://oroeditions.com/product/a-sign-is
Point of Reference, the Madrid-based studio Jeffrey founded - https://pointofreference.studio/ -
What Can a Cocktail Teach Us About Curiosity and Creativity? At first glance, documenting Negronis around the world might sound like a frivolous hobby. But could a simple cocktail become a vehicle for curiosity, experimentation and creative thinking?
On this episode, I speaks with geopolitical strategist Marc A Ross about an unusual passion project: ordering and documenting Negronis wherever he travels. What began as a casual habit has evolved into a magazine-style project called 50 Negronis, capturing cocktails from elegant bars to chaotic airport lounges. Along the way, the project has revealed something deeper about travel, culture and the value of experimentation.
But as the conversation unfolds, it becomes clear this episode isnât really about cocktails. Instead itâs about how curiosity leads to discovery, why creative side projects matter, and how experimentation can enrich both our professional and personal lives.
Curiosity Starts With Small Experiments
Marcâs Negroni project began almost accidentally. While travelling frequently for his work as a geopolitical strategist, he started ordering Negronis and photographing them. What made the idea interesting wasnât a search for the perfect drink.
Instead, Marc documented the entire experience â the great cocktails, the mediocre ones, and the truly terrible ones. That curiosity created a lens through which to experience the world differently. Bars became places for conversation, experimentation and discovery, and the project grew into a collection of stories from cities across the globe.
Creativity Through Play
A key theme of the conversation is the importance of playfulness. Marc deliberately avoids treating the project too seriously. The photos are simple smartphone snapshots, the documentation is intentionally loose, and the goal isnât perfection.
That approach mirrors how many creative projects evolve; by removing the pressure to produce something âdefinitive,â the project becomes an experiment. And in the process, it becomes easier to create, learn and iterate.
Authenticity, Communication and Personality
We also explore how side projects can sharpen professional skills. Marc argues that communicators, leaders and even politicians should experiment creatively and share aspects of their personality. Authenticity matters. Whether itâs documenting cocktails, running unconventional events, or experimenting with new formats, people connect more with ideas that feel genuine. Sometimes the most powerful way to communicate is simply to follow an idea that genuinely interests you.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â A cocktail as a conversation starter
Introduction; why Negronis might seem like an unusual topic for a podcast about human behaviour and yetâŠ
02:00 â Recording in Sundance, Utah
Marc describes the Brigadoon gathering and its focus on conversation rather than traditional conference formats.
04:00 â The origins of the Negroni
Marc explains the history of the cocktail and why it remains a classic drink.
07:00 â The â50 Negronisâ project
A disappointing airport Negroni sparks the idea of documenting the drinks Marc encounters while travelling.
10:00 â Capturing cocktails around the world
Marc explains how he photographs the drinks and records the ingredients when possible.
13:00 â Cocktail culture and experimentation
They discuss how bartenders experiment with ingredients and create new variations.
18:00 â Why the details donât matter
The project becomes less about recipes and more about stories, places and experiences.
22:00 â Learning through experimentation
Christian reflects on how creative side projects can help people learn and explore new ideas.
30:00 â Lessons for communicators and politicians
Marc explains why authenticity and personality matter in leadership.
37:00 â Staying curious and having fun
The conversation turns to persistence, creativity and the value of pursuing ideas simply because theyâre interesting.
42:00 â Where to follow Marcâs work
Marc shares details about Brigadoon events and his geopolitical newsletter.
Links
Caracal Global, Marcâs consultancy and advisory firm - https://www.caracal.global/
Brigadoon, Marcâs series of lovingly curated events - https://www.brigadoon.live/
Marc on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcaross/
Marcâs previous appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/marc-ross-on-communication-strategy/
Sundance Mountain Resort - https://www.sundanceresort.com/ -
Whatâs the difference between a mistake⊠and a bad decision? My guest knows this only too well. Tom Hardin has been on the show several times before. As Tipper X, he wore a wire for the FBI and helped build the largest insider trading investigation in US history.
Since then, he has spent nearly a decade speaking to organisations around the world about slippery slopes, rationalisation, and how good people drift into serious trouble. In this episode, he returns to discuss his new book, Wired on Wall Street.
The book goes beyond the insider trading case many listeners already know. It explores the ambition, insecurity and desire for status that shaped his early career, and the patterns he only recognised years later when writing it down.
For the first time on a podcast, Tom is also joined by his wife, Sue. She played no role in the trades that changed his life, but her life was dramatically altered by them. She reflects on discovering the truth, keeping a secret that wasnât hers, facing sentencing uncertainty, and what it means to rebuild together. This conversation isnât really about insider trading; itâs about character.
Key Themes
Why calling something a âmistakeâ can soften accountabilityThe psychology of slippery slopes and rationalisationStatus anxiety and the need to belongResume virtues vs eulogy virtuesShame versus guilt â and why the distinction mattersThe hidden impact of ethical failure on spouses and familiesWhat writing a book can reveal that telling a story on stage cannotThe freedom that comes from having nothing left to hideTomâs story is unusual; the human dynamics behind it are not.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â More than insider trading
Why this conversation is about character â guilt vs shame, mistakes vs bad decisions, and the cost of ethical drift.
02:30 â The story in brief
Tom recaps becoming âTipper Xâ and helping build the largest insider trading investigation in US history.
03:15 â Why write the book now?
After a decade of speaking, Tom explains what finally pushed him to put the full story â childhood, ambition, insecurity â on paper.
08:00 â The deeper pattern
From Georgia to the Ivy League to hedge funds: the outsider mindset, status anxiety, and the slippery slope.
16:00 â Small decisions, big consequences
Early corner-cutting, rationalisation, and the fraud triangle in action.
26:00 â Resume virtues vs eulogy virtues
How Tomâs definition of success changed â and the difference between shame and guilt.
31:00 â A simple test for integrity
One question that could replace most Codes of Conduct:
Are you willing to be held accountable for this decision?
Sueâs Perspective
40:30 â The night she found out
Shock, disbelief, and the future collapsing in an instant.
44:00 â Keeping a secret that wasnât hers
White lies, reputational fear, and the strain of silence.
49:00 â Sentencing day
Why she insisted on being there â no matter the outcome.
52:30 â Reinvention and resilience
Stay-at-home dad years, ultramarathons, and rebuilding a life together.
Links
Wired on Wall Street: www.tipperx.com/book
Tipper X Website: www.tipperx.com
Tom's previous appearances on the show:
Tom's experience as FBI Informant Tipper X - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tom-hardin-on-his-experience/
Turning Crime Into A Calling - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tom-hardin-on-turning-a-crime-into-a-calling/
Tom's Substack: https://substack.com/@tipperx
Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tipperx/ -
What happens when someone runs with a business idea they've heard as a thought experiment on a podcast? Can a business have an expletive in its name? And is it possible to run a business that sells a single very specific product?
Episode Summary
On this episode, Iâm joined by Charlie Hurst, Tom Noble and Will Sudlow â the founders of Flat White or F*ck Off*, a coffee brand inspired by a thought experiment by friend of the show,Rory Sutherland. The concept is simple: sell one thing â flat whites â and if you want something else⊠the answerâs in the name.
â ïž *Given the name of the business, this episode contains a lot of swearing!
Within four months of hearing the idea on Jamie Laingâs Great Company podcast, theyâd banded together â having never met but being isnpired to give the business a go â built a brand, grown an audience of tens of thousands, and served 1,500 flat whites in a single day at a London pop-up.
Most people would've treated Rory's idea as an interesting thought experiment. But Charlie, Tom and Will decided â with Rory's blessing â to actually build it.
In an extended conversation, we explore what it means to:
Build a brand before you have a productGrow an audience before you open a shopShare your financials publiclyDeliberately polarise rather than pleaseDiscover why Charlie, Tom and Will spent ÂŁ22,000 on a one-day loss-making pop-that served as a live experiment; part marketing, part proof of concept, part behavioural case study.
We discuss why constraint can be liberating, why queues affect perceived quality, how social proof shapes demand, and why narrowing your audience can be more powerful than trying to attract everyone.
This isnât just a story about coffee. Itâs about conviction, creative constraint and what happens when you deliberately ignore conventional business wisdom.
Guest Bios Charlie Hurst
Designer and brand builder. Charlie created the original visual identity for Flat White or F*ck Off after seeing Roryâs idea online.
Tom Noble
Entrepreneur and digital builder. Tom documented the entire journey in public, helping grow the brandâs audience before a single coffee was sold.
Will Sudlow
Co-founder of experiential agency The Impossible. Will brought production expertise to turn the idea into a large-scale pop-up event.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â From Thought Experiment to Real Business: why this is more than a coffee story.
03:00 â Hearing Roryâs Idea: how Charlie, Tom and Will discovered the concept and decided to act on it.
08:00 â Building in Public: growing an audience before having a physical product; documenting everything online.
15:00 â One Product Only: why selling just flat whites is a strategic constraint â and a behavioural signal.
25:00 â The Pop-Up Experiment: erving 1,500 coffees in a day; spending ÂŁ27,000 as a marketing investment.
35:00 â Polarisation & Backlash: criticism, online sceptics and why not being for everyone is the point.
50:00 â Perception, Queues & Behaviour: what they learned about speed, quality signals and social proof.
01:05:00 â Risk, Conviction & Entrepreneurship: why building something in public is both terrifying and liberating.
01:20:00 â What Happens Next: scaling, experimentation and staying true to the core idea.
Links
Rory on Jamie Laingâs Great Company podcast - https://shows.acast.com/great-company/episodes/rory-sutherland
Flat White or F*ck Off - https://flatwhiteorfckoff.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/flatwhiteorfckoff/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@flatwhiteorfckoff/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/flat-white-or-fck-off/
The co-founders
Tom on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasnoble1992/ Charlie on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlie-hurst-715364150/
Will on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/willsudlow/
Ask The Impossible - https://asktheimpossible.com/
Rory's appearances on this show:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-paul-craven-on-alchemy-magic/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley-paul-craven-at-abbey-road-part-one/ -
What if we stopped telling women how to stay safe, and started asking why violence against them keeps happening in the first place? On this episode, Iâm joined for a second time, by Amy Watson, the founder of social enterprise HASSL. Sheâs trying to tackle violence against women and girls at its root. Not with another awareness campaign or safety app. But by building a global movement designed to shift responsibility away from women, and onto society.
Overview
When Amy first joined the podcast a year ago, we discussed the scale and reality of violence against women. A year on, she returns to talk about what it actually takes to tackle it.
In just twelve months, her social enterprise HASSL has grown into a global prevention movement: more than half a million followers, thousands of volunteers across over 120 countries, and campaigns reaching millions of people organically.
But this isnât just a story about social media growth. Itâs about culture change. In an extended and wide-ranging disucssion, we explore why laws alone donât solve systemic problems, why âstay safeâ advice can unintentionally reinforce the wrong narrative, and what happens when you apply entrepreneurial thinking to one of societyâs most entrenched issues.
This is a conversation about scale, backlash, risk and moral ambition, and about what it means to build something that refuses to compromise.
Guest Bio - Amy Watson
Amy is the founder of HASSL, a global social enterprise tackling harassment at the root.
HASSL focuses on prevention â shifting responsibility for violence away from women as individuals and onto the cultural and systemic factors that enable harm. Combining research, education and partnerships, it aims to create scalable, long-term change rather than short-term fixes.
In just over a year, HASSL has grown into a global movement with hundreds of thousands of followers and volunteers across more than 120 countries.
Amyâs work sits at the intersection of social justice and entrepreneurship, applying business thinking to one of societyâs most entrenched problems.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â Intro: From Problem to Action
Christian frames this follow-up as a shift from discussing violence against women to exploring what it takes to tackle it in practice.
02:00 â What HASSL Stands For
Amy explains HASSLâs prevention-first approach: shifting responsibility away from women and onto culture, systems and male behaviour.
05:00 â Scaling a Social Enterprise
Rapid global growth, research-driven strategy, sustainable funding streams and a structured five-stage plan.
08:30 â Education & Engaging Men
Launch of free education resources, bystander tools and conversation frameworks designed to invite men into the solution.
16:00 â Entrepreneurship, Risk & Moral Ambition
Applying startup thinking to social change; sacrificing financial ambition for impact; long-term vision over quick wins.
35:00 â Values, Independence & Leadership
Why Amy avoids outside investment, refuses to compromise on inclusivity, and builds operational resilience into the organisation.
58:30 â Backlash & Online Abuse T
rolling, hate messages and the deliberate disruption of a webinar â and what that reveals about cultural normalisation.
01:05:00 â Using Criticism as Leverage
Turning recurring myths (âfalse accusationsâ, âwhat about men?â) into educational opportunities and narrative shifts.
01:21:00 â Barriers to Reporting Why speaking out rarely benefits women; the structural and social costs involved.
01:37:00 â Building a Movement How listeners can engage â and why lasting change requires persistence, scale and collective responsibility.
Links
Amyâs previous appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/amy-watson-on-violence-against-women/
HASSL - hassl.uk
Moral Ambition by Rutger Bregman - https://www.moralambition.org/book -
Who determines what 'good' Compliance actually looks like? The obvious answer is regulators (and in some jurisdictions) prosecutors. But what if it were the regulated Firms themselves? That's the idea behind purpose-driven compliance, which I'm exploring on this episode.
Episode Summary
To explore this, I'm joined by Veronica Root Martinez, Professor of Law at Duke University School of Law, to explore a deceptively simple but unsettling idea: 100% compliance is impossible. While we often behave as though perfect compliance is the goal â and in some safety-critical domains it must be â most organisational compliance involves humans. And humans make mistakes. Things get missed. Context changes. Stuff goes wrong.
So if perfection isnât realistic, the real question becomes: how do organisations decide what really matters? The traditional answer has been to look outward â to regulators, enforcement authorities, and in some jurisdictions (particularly the US), prosecutors. Their priorities, expressed through sentencing guidelines, enforcement actions, and settlements, end up defining what âgoodâ compliance looks like.
Veronica challenges that logic. She argues that this gets things the wrong way round. Instead of letting enforcement priorities dictate behaviour, she makes the case for purpose-driven compliance â where organisations set their own priorities based on their purpose, values, and actual risks, rather than chasing shifting regulatory expectations. Along the way, the conversation explores culture, human judgment, psychological safety, technology, experimentation, and why âbest practiceâ can sometimes make things worse rather than better.
This episode is for anyone who writes rules, enforces them â or simply has to live under them.
Guest Biography
Veronica Root Martinez is a Professor of Law at Duke University School of Law, where she researches corporate compliance, ethics, and organisational culture. Her work on purpose-driven compliance challenges enforcement-led models and explores how organisations can set priorities based on their own purpose, values, and risks.
Before entering academia, Veronica practised as an associate at a large law firm in Washington, DC, where she worked on regulatory and white-collar matters â experience that strongly informs the practical orientation of her research.
Links
Professor Veronica Root Martinez â Faculty Profile
https://law.duke.edu/fac/martinez
Veronica on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-root-martinez/
Purpose-Driven Compliance (paper discussed in the episode)
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6078766
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â 02:00 | âBecause they said soâ
Christian reframes compliance as a universal human experience â not just a professional discipline â and introduces the problem of rules justified solely by regulatory expectation.
02:00 â 05:30 | Why 100% compliance is impossible
Veronica explains why modern organisations cannot realistically achieve perfect compliance when humans are involved â and why pretending otherwise creates problems.
05:30 â 10:30 | Tolerated misconduct and cultural drift
How allowing âsmallâ rule-breaking can escalate into bigger issues, drawing on behavioural ethics and real-world corporate failures.
10:30 â 14:30 | Risk, prioritisation, and what really matters
A discussion of risk-based thinking, irrecoverable vs recoverable errors, and why organisations â not regulators â are best placed to set priorities.
14:30 â 18:30 | Enforcement swings and resilience
Why compliance programmes built around enforcement trends are fragile, expensive, and reactive â and how purpose-driven approaches create stability. 18:30 â 23:30 | Innovation, uncertainty, and guardrails
Why regulators are always behind innovation â and how values-based guardrails help employees make decisions in uncharted territory.
23:30 â 30:30 | Technology, AI, and the human in the loop
The limits of automation, the danger of over-reliance on tech, and why human judgment remains essential.
30:30 â 36:30 | Rules, loopholes, and malicious compliance
How overly detailed rulebooks create loopholes â and why purpose and principles offer a better basis for accountability.
36:30 â 40:30 | The Costco example
A powerful illustration of simplicity: four ethical principles that employees can actually understand and use.
40:30 â 45:30 | Training, regulators, and unintended consequences
Why blanket training requirements often miss the mark â and how enforcement agreements can accidentally undermine effectiveness.
45:30 â 52:30 | Measuring culture and compliance effectiveness
Moving beyond counting inputs to assessing outputs, including psychological safety, Speak Up systems, and cultural indicators.
52:30 â 57:30 | Experimentation and learning
Why failed interventions arenât failure â theyâre information â and why compliance should be treated as an evolving experiment.
57:30 â End | Reclaiming responsibility
A closing reflection on extrinsic motivation, âbecause I said so,â and why purpose-driven compliance offers a more human, defensible, and sustainable way forward. -
As Artificial Intelligence (AI) gets smarter and tkaes over more tasks, what happens to human dynamics like trust, transparency, leadership and empathy. How can humans and machines wowrk togehter effectively? And how can leaders lead in this new world?
Episode Summary
AI is often discussed as a technical challenge, but the more interesting question is how it impacts humans and how we will interface with them. As AI becomes part of the world weâre navigating, it raises deeply human questions about trust, transparency, confidence, and how we relate to systems we donât fully understand.
On this episode, I'm joined by Professor Tina Weisser, a leading thinker on humanâAI collaboration, systems thinking, and organisational behaviour under uncertainty. Together, we explore why trust isnât something we can engineer into technology, why uncertainty isnât a problem to be eliminated, and what AI may be revealing about human behaviour, rather than the other way around. This conversation is less about what AI can do, and more about what it does to us.
Guest Profile
Professor Tina Weisser is a Professor at the Munich University of Applied Sciences and a member of the Munich Center for Digital Sciences and Artificial Intelligence (MUC-DAI). Her work focuses on humanâAI collaboration, systems thinking, service design, and how organisations adapt under conditions of complexity and uncertainty.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
00:00 â AI as a human problem, not a technical one
04:00 â Tinaâs path into humanâAI collaboration
12:00 â Why uncertainty is unavoidable (and necessary)
18:00 â We havenât mastered work â and now weâre adding AI
23:00 â From tools to agents: why this feels different
29:00 â Trusting actions, not facts
35:00 â Ethics, fear, and human inconsistency
42:00 â What this means for students, skills, and learning
49:00 â âLet AI handle the data â humans handle the roomâ
55:00 â Being right too early doesnât help
1:01:00 â AI as a mirror of humanity
Episode Links
Tina's LinkedIn profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tinaweisser/
Tina's website - www.tinaweisser.com
Munich Center for Digital Sciences & AI (MUC-DAI) - http://mucdai.hm.edu -
What lies behind Romance Fraud? Romance fraud is one of the fastest-growing forms of fraud worldwide, and one of the most emotionally devastating. Itâs also one of the most misunderstood.
On this episode, Iâm speaking to Becky Holmes, author of the bestselling book Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love With You. Becky didnât become interested in romance fraud through victimhood or research. She stumbled into it during the pandemic after being approached by scammers online â and instead of ignoring them, she decided to wind them up.
What began as a joke â sending absurd messages, inventing ridiculous scenarios, and pushing scam scripts to breaking point â turned into something much more serious. Through humour, Becky uncovered the psychological mechanics of romance fraud: how trust is built, how isolation and gaslighting work, and why believing youâre âtoo smart to fall for itâ is often the most dangerous belief of all.
In this conversation, we explore why laughing at scammers is not the same as blaming victims, why romance fraud closely mirrors patterns seen in abusive relationships, and why shame â not stupidity â keeps people trapped. We also talk about humour as a gateway to learning, the limits of victim-focused storytelling, and the uncomfortable truth that none of us are immune. This is a funny conversation in places. And then it isnât.
This is not the first time the Human Risk Podcast has explored romance fraud. On a previous episode, I spoke with Anna Rowe, a victim of romance fraud, about the profound emotional and psychological impact of being deceived by someone you believed you loved.
In this episode, we discuss:
Why romance fraud is a psychological scam, not a technical oneHow humour can expose manipulation without mocking victimsThe striking parallels between romance fraud and abusive relationshipsIsolation, gaslighting, and shame as tools of controlWhy âit would never happen to meâ is such a dangerous beliefThe role of AI, deepfakes, and evolving scam tacticsWhy fraud literacy matters â and why people donât seek it out until itâs too lateThe emotional cost of online exposure and harassmentWhat institutions, platforms, and society still get wrong about fraud
Guest Profile
Becky Holmes is an author, speaker, and writer specialising in fraud, online manipulation, and digital harm. Her first book, Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love With You, explores the world of romance fraud through humour, storytelling, and lived experience.
Her second book, The Future of Fraud, examines how scams are evolving in a world shaped by AI and digital identity.
Links and resources
Beckyâs first book Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love With You - https://share.google/fKQ6qCL1l8Ygl1ey2The Future of Fraud her second (out April 2026) - https://share.google/fKQ6qCL1l8Ygl1ey2
Becky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beckyholmeshatesspinach/
Becky on Instagram: Becky Holmes (@deathtospinach)
Becky on Twitter/X: https://x.com/deathtospinach?
Beckyâs book agent profile: https://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/client/becky-holmes
Previous Human Risk Podcast episode with Anna Rowe on being a victim of romance fraud: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/anna-rowe-on-romance-scams/
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 â Why romance fraud matters
Christian explains why the podcast is returning to romance fraud, linking this episode to an earlier conversation with victim Anna Rowe (linked in the show notes).
02:00 â How Becky Holmes got into romance fraud
Becky describes how being approached by scammers during lockdown â and deciding to wind them up â accidentally turned into deep expertise.
05:00 â When jokes expose the script
Absurd replies, fake crime scenes, and the moment Becky realised scammers werenât reading messages, just following scripts.
09:00 â Laughing at scammers, not victims
Why humour can highlight manipulation without blaming those who fall victim â and how the book shifts from comedy to something much darker.
14:00 â Romance fraud as psychological abuse
The parallels with abusive relationships: isolation, gaslighting, shame, and why people stay, return, or fall again.
21:00 â âIt would never happen to meâ
Why believing youâre too smart to fall for romance fraud is often the biggest risk of all.
28:00 â What the media gets wrong
Victim-focused storytelling, ignored systems, and why AI, deepfakes, and scam scripts matter more than headlines.
36:00 â Fraud literacy and prevention
Why people donât seek out information about fraud until itâs too late â and how humour can be a gateway to awareness.
45:00 â The personal cost of online exposure
Online harassment, cyberflashing, and the emotional toll of spending years inside the systems youâre critiquing.
55:00 â Whatâs next for Becky
Upcoming books, speaking work, and where to find her online. -
Why do we struggle to talk about grief? Why that matters and what we can do about it, is the subject of this episode.
Summary
Grief is something almost all of us will experience, and yet something we still struggle to talk about openly. Not because itâs rare, but because it makes us uncomfortable. We lack a shared language for it, feel uneasy about how long it lasts, and often donât know how to sit with people who donât simply âmove onâ.
On this episode, I'm joined by Amy Kean, founder of Good Shout, for a deeply human conversation about grief, work, identity, and what it really means to give people space to be themselves.
Amy has been on the podcast before. Since first encountering her work, I have been consistently inspired by her willingness to be unashamedly herself: thoughtful, curious, and open about experiences many of us keep hidden. When she recently shared reflections on grief on LinkedIn, it sparked a desire to invite her back; not for a tightly structured discussion, but for a conversation that could explore the wider dynamics around loss.
What follows is an unusual episode. It begins with grief, but moves into related territory: compassionate leave versus compassionate return, what actually helps when someone is struggling, why workplaces are often so bad at dealing with loss, and why talking about difficult things might be one of the most important human skills we have.
Rather than offering neat frameworks or tidy conclusions, this conversation creates space; for reflection, for discomfort, and for honesty.
If youâve experienced loss, this episode may offer comfort or recognition. If you havenât, it may give you insight into how to show up better for others when the time comes. And above all, it helps normalise the idea that grief is not something to be hidden or hurried past, but something we should be able to talk about.
The episode is dedicated to Amyâs dad, Lord Terence Kean.
Relevant Links
Good Shout, Amy's company â https://goodshoutcommunity.com/
Amy on LinkedIn â https://www.linkedin.com/in/amycharlottekean/
Amyâs previous appearance on the show talking aboiut Communicating Effectively â
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/amy-kean-on-communicating-effectively/
Death of an Ordinary Man by Sarah Perry â
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60324067-death-of-an-ordinary-man
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
01:05 â Why Amy, why now
03:40 â Remembering Amyâs dad
08:30 â Double grief and anticipatory loss
10:40 â Stroke, hope, and uncertainty
14:40 â Grief, work, and performance
17:35 â Naming emotions out loud
22:05 â Talking about grief on LinkedIn
27:40 â Compassionate return
30:05 â The cognitive cost of grief
33:05 â Why we donât talk about death
35:05 â How to help someone whoâs grieving
41:05 â Creativity, curiosity, and grief
49:05 â AI, voice, and being human
53:05 â Shameless and deathbed economics
01:02:00 â Final reflections and dedication -
Are we losing our ability to think critically as we rely more on AI?
Episode Summary
My guest is social psychologist Dr Guy Champniss to explore the role of behavioural science in business and the emerging challenges of AI in the workplace. We discuss why behaviour change is so hard to sell, the myth that behavioural science is only needed when everything else fails, and how organisations often overlook the human factors in transformation. Guy brings deep insight into how behavioural science is perceived inside organisationsâoften as a last resort when more traditional methods fail.
We examine why that is, and how a better understanding of human behaviour can actually de-risk strategy, improve engagement, and lead to more successful outcomes. We also explore the psychology of AI: how we trust it, how we interact with it, and what we might be losing in the process. From loss of credibility and collaboration among employees, to the risks of over-automation and cognitive offloading, the conversation raises timely questions about what kind of future we're building, and how prepared we really are.
You'll hear thoughtful takes on the challenges of selling behavioural science, powerful metaphors to help reframe the debate, and real-world examples from the classroom to the call centre. If youâre curious about the intersection of technology, psychology, and organisational behaviour, this is a must-listen.
About Guy Champniss
Dr Guy Champniss is a social psychologist and behavioural science practitioner. He teaches at IE Business School in Madrid and consults through Meltwater Consulting. Guyâs current work focuses on how AI is changing human behaviour in organisationsâparticularly its impact on trust, agency, and critical thinking. Heâs also worked extensively in the sustainability space, helping businesses drive lasting behavioural change.
AI Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] â Intro to Dr Guy Champniss and sets up the discussion around behavioural science and AI.
[00:03:30] â Behavioural Scienceâs Struggle for Acceptance
Why itâs often brought in too late and why it needs itself to be sold effectively.
[00:10:00] â Organisational Blind Spots
How businesses resist behaviour-led approaches and prefer short-term fixes.
[00:17:30] â From Sustainability to AI
Guyâs journey into exploring the psychology of AI at work.
[00:24:00] â AI and Human Credibility
What happens when AI performs better than people, and how that undermines trust.
[00:30:00] â Trust and Bias in AI
Why we trust AI more when it agrees with us and the dangers that brings.
[00:38:00] â AIâs Impact on Collaboration
How automation can quietly erode teamwork and critical thinking.
[00:45:00] â Students and AI
What AI use in classrooms reveals about thinking, learning, and shortcuts.
[00:52:00] â The Real Future of Work
Why itâs not AI replacing jobsâbut people who know how to use it.
[00:56:00] â Language, Labels, and Responsibility
The power of how we talk about tech and what it signals.
Links
Meltwater Consulting, Guy's firm - https://www.meltwater-consulting.com/drguychampniss
Guy on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/guychampniss/
His academic profile at IE Business School - https://rhe.ie.edu/speaker/guy-champniss/
Guy's research - https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Guy-Champniss
McKinsey article on AI in Contact Centres - https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/operations/our-insights/the-contact-center-crossroads-finding-the-right-mix-of-humans-and-ai
Onora O'Neil BBC Reith Lectures on A Question of Trust:
Recording: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00ghvd8
Transcript: https://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/radio4/transcripts/20020427_reith.pdfv -
Why do governments rely on coercion and punishment when voluntary cooperation often produces better, more sustainable outcomes?
Episode Summary
On this episode, Iâm joined once again by Professor Yuval Feldman, who returns to explore the core question behind his latest book: Can The Public Be Trusted?
Instead of asking how much we trust our governments, Yuval flips the script, asking how much governments trust us, and whether that trust is deserved. Together, we dive into the concept of voluntary compliance, where people follow rules not because theyâre forced to, but because they believe in doing the right thing. We unpack the complexity of this idea through real-world examples, from tax compliance to environmental policy to COVID-19 interventions.
Yuval explains why people who think theyâre ethical can actually be the hardest to regulate, and how misplaced trust can lead to serious regulatory blind spots. We also explore the psychological tension between intrinsic motivation and external enforcement, and why regulators often default to command-and-control, even when trust might offer a better solution.
As ever, Yuval makes nuanced, sophisticated ideas feel accessible and immediately relevant. You'll hear about the role of culture, the limits of nudging, why economists might (sometimes!) actually be right about human behaviour and how AI might help policymakers make better decisions.
Guest Bio
Professor Yuval Feldman is a legal scholar and behavioural scientist at Bar-Ilan University in Israel. A returning guest and the podcastâs very first interviewee, Yuval is internationally renowned for his work at the intersection of law, psychology, and behavioural economics. His new book, Can The Public Be Trusted? The Promise and Perils of Voluntary Compliance is available open-access via Cambridge University Press (link below).
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction: why this question of âcan the public be trusted?â matters for regulation and risk
[00:03:42] Yuvalâs personal background: how he came into law + psychology and the origin of his VComp lab
[00:09:15] Defining voluntary compliance: what it means, how it differs from coercion
[00:14:52] Intrinsic motivation vs crowding out: when good intentions are undermined by heavyâhanded regulation
[00:21:30] Designing regulatory systems for trust: frameworks and features that support voluntary compliance
[00:27:47] Case study: Covidâ19 and public cooperationâwhat we learned about trust, compliance and enforcement
[00:34:10] Tax compliance as a trust test: how citizens respond when they believe the system treats them fairly
[00:39:58] Environmental regulation and the limits of voluntary strategies: when culture or technology create barriers
[00:45:22] Crossâcultural & technological dynamics: how digital reputation, culture and platforms impact compliance
[00:50:05] The perils of voluntary compliance: when trust can be misplaced, manipulated or simply ineffective
[00:55:30] Final reflections: what this means for risk professionals, policymakers and anyone designing systems of human behaviour
[01:00:12] Closing: how to reframe regulation to see the public not as a risk but as a resource.
Links
Yuval's academic profile - https://law.biu.ac.il/en/feldman
His profile on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuval-feldman-21942514/
His open-access book Can the Public Be Trusted? (Cambridge University Press) â https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/can-the-public-be-trusted/B3E11831E3051D4E928B9252B6767A4B
Yuvalâs previous appearances on the show
On The Law of Good People or âwhy we should write rules for good people not bad peopleâ (2019) - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-yuval-feldman-on-why/
On Trust & Voluntary Compliance (2022) - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-yuval-feldman-on-trust-compliance? -
We all intuitively know that hypocrisy is a bad thing. But what if it isnât a flaw, but a feature? But maybe the real problem isnât hypocrisy, itâs how we think about it.
Episode Summary
On this episode, I'm talking to DrâŻMichaelâŻHallsworth, a leading behavioural scientist and the author of The Hypocrisy Trap. We explore a topic thatâs instantly recognisable but not often properly understood. Hypocrisy is something weâre quick to spot in others, slow to acknowledge in ourselves, and often design around as if it were avoidable or inherently wrong.
What Michael reveals â through personal stories, behavioural experiments, and a careful unpacking of what hypocrisy really means â is that our judgments of hypocrisy say more about us than about the people weâre criticising. In fact, hypocrisy isnât just common; itâs structurally baked into how we navigate competing priorities, conflicting values and real-world trade-offs. And sometimes, paradoxically, a little hypocrisy might even be useful.
That makes it incredibly relevant to human risk. In compliance, ethics, and organisational culture, we tend to assume people should act consistently with what they believe, and we often penalise them when they donât. But as Michael explains, this assumption can lead us to build systems that are brittle, punitive or out of touch with how people actually behave. This conversation challenges that frame and offers a more human â and more effective â way of thinking about inconsistency, trust and moral judgment.
Guest Biography - Michael Hallsworth
DrâŻMichaelâŻHallsworth is Chief Behavioural Scientist at the Behavioural Insights Team (BIT), where he applies behavioural science to policy, organisational design and realâworld behavioural change. He describes himself as someone âhelping people apply behavioural science to realâworld problemsâ and is the author of The Hypocrisy Trap: How Changing What We Criticise Can Improve Our Lives.
At BIT, Michael has led numerous projects spanning government and private sector domains, bridging rigorous academic research with operational behavioural insight. His work is characterised by practical translation of behavioural science and an upfront acknowledgement of human complexity â the grey zones rather than the simple binaries.
His new book brings this lens to the topic of hypocrisy, exploring how our judgments of double standards shape behaviour, institutions and trust in counterâintuitive ways.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] Intro and framing of hypocrisy as a human behavioural risk
[00:01:00] Why hypocrisy runs deeper than just âsaying one thing and doing anotherâ
[00:02:00] Discussion of how organisations treat moral consistency â and the limitations of that approach
[00:03:00] Michaelâs background, BIT and the genesis of his book
[00:04:00] Defining hypocrisy: the threeâpart structure
[00:06:00] The twoâfold meaning: false image vs double standards
[00:07:00] Michaelâs personal story with his daughter + the context of âPartyGateâ
[00:09:00] Historical roots: Freudâs view on civilisation and hypocrisy
[00:11:00] Why hypocrisy is a social judgement rather than purely behavioural
[00:13:00] When calling out hypocrisy becomes counterproductive in change efforts
[00:15:00] Realâworld examples: politics, business, everyday life
[00:17:00] The phenomenon of âdoâgooder derogationâ and why consistent people make us uneasy
[00:20:00] Hypocrisy as a strategic accusation in social media and organisational life
[00:22:00] The behavioural science of induced hypocrisy and what it tells us about change
[00:25:00] Honest vs. relatable hypocrisy: shifting the narrative
[00:28:00] Michael outlines three categories for navigating hypocrisy
[00:30:00] His reflections on writing the book and the surprises he uncovered
[00:34:00] Balancing moral integrity with public perception and stakeholder expectations
[00:36:00] Hypocrisy in corporate ESG: the tension between expectation and action
[00:39:00] Managing contradictions among stakeholders: the inevitable tradeâoffs
[00:41:00] Experiment results: private hypocrisy and moral judge
[00:44:00] The paradox: why we prefer people who are âinconsistent but principledâ over âconsistent and blandâ
[00:46:00] Authenticity vs inauthentic leadership â and the hypocrisy dimension
[00:48:00] Is this a practical manual for âhow to do hypocrisy wellâ?
[00:51:00] Final reflections: hypocrisy isnât always about moralityâsometimes itâs about signalling, trust and change
[00:54:00] Michaelâs hope for what the book can achieve and closing thoughts
[00:57:00] Wrapâup, thanks and behavioural nudge for the listener
Links
Michael's website - https://www.michaelhallsworth.com/
The Hypocrisy Trap â https://www.thehypocrisytrap.com/
Behavioural Insights Team - https://www.bi.team/
Michael's IT profile â https://www.bi.team/people/michael-hallsworth/
'Partygate' explainer - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59952395 - Laat meer zien
