Afleveringen
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From public scandals to private betrayals that never make the news, experiencing the failure of a leader is both heartbreaking and disorienting. When someone leads a church community or is esteemed as a hero, the fallout of their failure is felt even more.
Lisa Fields joins Jackie and Preston for an honest conversation about leadership betrayal. They discuss what healthy admiration looks like, how to navigate the grief of failed leadership without becoming cynical, and why restoration doesn't always mean a return to the platform.
Scripture References:
John 21
1 John 3
Galatians 6:1
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Check out “When Heroes Fall: Healing from the Aftermath of Sin” – https://www.amazon.com/When-Heroes-Fall-Healing-Aftermath/dp/0593603109
Follow Lisa on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/lisavfields/
https://lisavfields.com/
Lisa’s last conversation on With The Perrys, “How to Wrestle With God” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwTKOItm3Wo
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Earlier this month, Jackie found herself at the center of a Threads post that generated a whole lot of conversation. It got her and Preston thinking about the opposition we face as Christians because of a worldview that is confusing to unbelievers.
NOTE: For most of us, the persecution we face is social in nature – that’s different from persecution others face around the world when they risk their lives professing Christ.
As Christians, we’re not supposed to defend ourselves. We’re supposed to preach the gospel and leverage opposition as an opportunity to point others to Jesus. Jackie and Preston discuss a helpful framework for approaching unbelievers, why it’s important to lead with compassion, and the reason why both prayer and patience are required for those conversations.
Scripture References:
2 Corinthians 4:4-6
1 Peter 3:15-16
Nehemiah 4:17–18
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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A stronghold is an untruth that has lodged itself in our brains and keeps out the knowledge of God. Shame can be a stronghold if we are believing something that is literally not the truth – about God, ourselves, or others. So really, shame and the gospel can’t co-exist peacefully. You could even say that shame is anti-gospel.
Jackie and Preston discuss how the gospel – the good news that we are forgiven – exposes lies and replaces them with the truth we find in God’s word. We’ve got to meditate on the gospel, read the Bible more than we think about ourselves, and be aware of the way we are helping to remove (or unconsciously adding to) shame in other people’s lives.
Scripture References:
Genesis 3:7
Hebrews 12:2
"The Soul of Shame: Retelling the Stories We Believe About Ourselves" by Curt Thompson: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0830844333/
Video from Dan Allender, "The Fall" – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNLFNIfHqLE
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We all go through seasons where we have little desire for God. We don’t really want to pray, and reading our Bible doesn’t sound exciting.Being honest about not wanting God isn’t unbelief, but it may uncover areas of our life where we’re believing a lie or not dealing with sin. There are so many things in life that compete for our affections, but God will meet us in our insufficiency and invites us to go deeper in our faith.
Preston mentions John’s Piper’s book, “Desiring God” - https://www.amazon.com/Desiring-God-Meditations-Christian-Hedonist/dp/1433595974
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When you hyper-focus on what you think you lack, you aren’t practicing gratitude, and you can become discontent. When you covet what someone else has, you will start to believe that God is withholding something good from you. That means our discontentment is not about our life circumstances but about the state of our hearts.
Melissa Kruger joins the Perrys to talk about a book Jackie stumbled upon when looking for resources on the topic of covetousness – one that Melissa wrote back in 2012 called “The Envy of Eve: Finding Contentment in a Covetous World.”
Whatever you’re wanting, it will not ultimately be soul-satisfying. We spend our time chasing the contentment we want when it’s available to us simply by abiding with Jesus.
Connect with Melissa:
https://www.instagram.com/melissabryankruger
https://melissabkruger.com/
Check out Melissa's book, "The Envy of Eve: Finding Contentment in a Covetous World" – https://www.amazon.com/Envy-Eve-Finding-Contentment-Covetous/dp/1845507754
Jackie and Melissa's Ephesians study with Jasmine Holmes: https://www.lifeway.com/en/product/ephesians-bible-study-book-with-video-access-P005843174?
Scripture References
Genesis 3
Philippians 4:11-13
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
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Y’all love a Q&A episode, so the Perrys asked Instagram followers to submit questions to help guide the topics of conversation. Jackie kicks things off with a “storytime” moment about an unforgettable (and not in a great way) evangelism experience, and then they dive into the questions.
How do you deal with insecurity as a man?
Should you only date someone who is spiritually at the same pace as you?
When we get to Heaven, will we recognize our loved ones?
How can you be delivered from sexual immorality?
Why doesn’t Jackie talk more about her prophetic dreams?
Scripture References
1 Corinthians 6:12-14
James 1:12-15
1 Corinthians 14:23-25
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The Perrys are joined by Melissa and Mike Kruger to discuss their new book “The Good News Family Devotional: 52 Weeks Through the Gospel of Mark.” Mark is fast-paced and story-centric, which makes it an ideal book to study alongside your kids.
The Kruegers and Perrys discuss navigating discipleship with kids in different stages, helping children move beyond surface-level observation questions, and seeing family devotionals as just one part of a broader culture of discipleship in the home. Melissa and Mike encourage parents – especially those without a model from their own upbringing – to pursue family discipleship imperfectly but diligently.
Check out “The Good News Family Devotional” – https://goodnewsfamilydevotional.com/; https://us.amazon.com/Good-News-Family-Devotional-Through-ebook/dp/B0GX2YCWT4
Connect with the Kruegers:
https://melissabkruger.com/
https://www.instagram.com/melissabryankruger/
https://goodnewsfamilydevotional.com/
Scripture References
Deuteronomy 6:4-9
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When we’re “born again” as Christ followers, we’re babies, and “growing up” is a choice. But emotions, pride, and an endless buffet of online voices can keep new believers spiritually stuck.
In this episode, Jackie and Preston discuss how spiritual maturity isn’t automatic, nor is it a checklist. We become mature by pursuing humility, having discernment about false doctrine, and establishing deep roots in a local church community. Ultimately, we have to know our Bible more than anything and come to terms with our complete dependence on God.
Tim Keller’s sermon, “Principles of Christian Growth”
Part 1 – https://podcast.gospelinlife.com/e/principles-of-christian-growth-part-1/
Part 2 – https://podcast.gospelinlife.com/e/principles-of-christian-growth/
Scripture References
Ephesians 4:11-15
1 Corinthians 3:1-4
Psalm 139:23-24
John 15:1-2
This Episode is Sponsored By:
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The second half of the Perrys’ conversation with Matt Chandler is a deeper discussion of the Beatitudes of Matthew 5.
For example, the Bible says, “Blessed are those who mourn,” but what are we to mourn, and how do we mourn well? Matt explains that we mourn our own sin, and we grieve the broken world around us. Comfort is found in the hard work of mourning, and the consequence of not mourning is distance from Jesus.
Beyond mourning, Matt and the Perrys also explore meekness, a thirst for righteousness, mercy, peacemaking, and persecution.
Scripture References
Matthew 5:3-10
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After more than two decades leading a church – and through his own faith journey, too – Pastor Matt Chandler says confidently that, “Come what may, God is at work.”
In this conversation on sanctification, Matt, Jackie and Preston explore the Beatitudes of Matthew 5, not as a checklist of spiritual goals but a portrait of a person Jesus is creating as we mature in Christ. The Christian life isn’t about wins and losses; it’s about staying tethered to Jesus through the highs and lows. Keep saying yes to Him, and He’ll use it all to form you.
This is part 1 of a 2-part conversation.
Check out Matt Chandler’s new book, “Becoming Like Jesus: The Everyday Journey to Living a Life of Holiness” (releasing this week, April 28): https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Like-Jesus-Everyday-Holiness/dp/1400344301
Tim Keller sermon Jackie mentions: http://podcast.gospelinlife.com/e/principles-of-christian-growth-part-1/
Scripture References
Matthew 5:3-12
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Trip Lee is an author, teacher, and hip-hop artist who recently released new worship music titled “For Your Glory.” He joins Jackie and Preston for a conversation about worship music, rap music, and the importance of music in our lives as followers of Jesus. Music plays a major role in spiritual formation – singing truth helps us remember and believe what is true about God. Worship is not just the fluff before a sermon; it’s a response to who God is. Ultimately, worship is about making much of Jesus, and it’s something we’re called to participate in together.Connect with Trip Lee: https://www.instagram.com/triplee/ https://builttobrag.com/ Listen to For Your Glory, the new worship project from BRAG WORSHIP & Trip Lee: https://link.reachrecords.com/fyg1 Scripture References Ephesians 5:19 Psalm 77:1-3, 13-14, 16 Psalm 103:1This Episode is Sponsored By:https://magicspoon.com/PERRY — Get $5 off your next order!Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Sex is a living metaphor. It’s how we experience oneness with the person we’ve committed to be in a covenant relationship with, similar to the relationship between Christ and the church. Dr. Juli Slattery joins the Perrys to discuss the importance of seeing sex as an ongoing journey of intimacy, not just a physical act, requiring emotional vulnerability and communication.
The Perrys’ conversation with Dr. Slattery covers sexual trauma, pornography, entitlement, libido, and purity culture. Everything God created, He designed to be a reflection of himself, and that includes sex. Single, dating, married, widowed, divorced – this episode about sexuality is a helpful and necessary conversation for everyone to learn from.
Connect with Dr. Juli Slattery: https://www.authenticintimacy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/authenticintimacy
https://www.authenticintimacy.com/podcast/
https://www.authenticintimacy.com/books/
Scripture References
Psalm 37
This Episode is Sponsored By:
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Dr. Crawford Loritts joins the Perrys for a conversation about leadership and the qualities that make someone worth following.
True leadership is stewardship and sacrifice. Someone’s ability to lead is in direct proportion to their ability to serve. A good leader has conviction, not just knowledge, with wisdom that's the product of experience, not simply exposure to information. And Dr. Loritts talks about anointing being on the person, not their platform or performance, and how gifts are most developed when you focus on character and godliness.
Check out Dr. Loritts’ book, Leadership as an Identity: The Four Traits of Those Who Wield Lasting Influence: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Identity-Traits-Lasting-Influence/dp/080242987
Jackie’s Blameless hat: https://boldapparel.shop/products/blameless-hat
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TRIGGER WARNING: Suicide is briefly discussed in this episode.
Here’s part two of Jackie and Preston’s conversation with Lymari and Tony Navarro. Last week you heard about Tony’s betrayal, and in this episode they discuss the restoration of their marriage.
Things are incredibly fragile after a spouse’s affair, and the Navarros are honest about that. Lymari says couples need a season of “incubation” if they want to restore their relationship – a time of intentionally surrounding yourself with wise counsel and cutting out people persuading you to leave the marriage (again, if both husband and wife are committed to reconciliation). Tony’s affair was 25 years ago, and five years went by before the Navarros were in a place to support other couples with stories like theirs. Be encouraged – restoration takes time.
This Episode is Sponsored By:
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Connect with the Navarros:
https://www.lymarinavarro.com/
https://www.tonyandlymarinavarro.com/
https://www.instagram.com/tonyandlymarinavarro
Check out their book, "From Ruin to Renewal" – https://shop.familylife.com/product/from-ruin-to-renewal/
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“Our story is a warning to some and a hope to others.”
Three years into their marriage, Lymari Navarro got an anonymous phone call from a woman who said, “Your husband is having an affair.” When confronted, Tony told Lymari he had fallen out of love with her, but she chose grace over the Biblical “right” she had to a divorce.
The enemy attacks marriages because it is the most accurate relationship to that of Jesus and the church. Marriage shows off the gospel in a way that nothing else can, and the transformational impact of that undeserved grace is on display in the story you’ll begin to hear in this week’s episode.
Come back next week for part two of the Perrys’ conversation with Lymari and Tony.
The Navarros have benefitted from and speak at FamilyLife’s Weekend to Remember events. Find a location near you: https://www.familylife.com/weekend-to-remember/
This Episode is Sponsored By:
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Scripture references:
Romans 1
Titus 2:11-12
Connect with the Navarros:
https://www.lymarinavarro.com/
https://www.tonyandlymarinavarro.com/
https://www.instagram.com/tonyandlymarinavarro
Check out their book, "From Ruin to Renewal" – https://shop.familylife.com/product/from-ruin-to-renewal/
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Peter may be one of the most relatable disciples. He’s bold, passionate, sometimes impulsive, and a natural leader, which we read about in Scripture. His story shows how our greatest strengths can become massive stumbling blocks.
From boldly declaring Jesus as the Messiah to denying Him three times, Peter’s life reminds us how quickly we can fall, yet his restoration shows us the heart of God. After your failure, do you run to Jesus? Like we see in Peter’s story, Jesus is patient with us and committed to making us more like Him.
Scripture references:
Matthew 16:13-222
Luke 22:33
Mark 14:26
Psalm 139:1-4
John 21:1-4, 7
Revelation 2:4-5
John 21:15-17
This Episode is Sponsored By:
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There are three core lies we all believe: “I’m worthless, I’m unlovable, and I’m helpless.” These beliefs can grow into strongholds that influence our thoughts and actions over time.
Jennie Allen joins the Perrys to talk about how the enemy often makes lies like these feel rational and normal, and then we agree with the lies without realizing it. We need God’s Word and the truth of the Gospel to help us fight them. Jennie’s encouragement is that you are not especially broken because you believe lies. She says, “The reason the enemy comes for you is because you’re loved. Because you love God and He loves you, that makes you a target. Don’t let shame enter your story more than it already has.”
Check out Jennie’s new book, “The Lie You Don't Know You Believe” https://www.amazon.com/Lie-You-Dont-Know-Believe/dp/1400249821
Follow @JennieAllen: https://www.instagram.com/jennieallen/
Scripture references:
1 John 1:5-7
Matthew 4:4-6
John 14:30
John 16:33
Ephesians 6:10-13
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Scripture tells us that the righteous shall live by faith, but what does that actually look like and how can we grow in faith?
In this episode, the Perrys explore how unbelief sits at the root of sin, why spiritual fruit reveals what we truly believe about God, and how maturity in Christ leads to deeper, more specific repentance. Rather than striving for acceptance through good works, faithful obedience flows from the acceptance that is already ours in Jesus.
Scripture references:
Hebrews 11:1-4
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What began as a childlike love for Jesus was tested when Alena Pitts Franklin's mom died suddenly when Alena was just 14 years old. Alena’s grief challenged and deepened her understanding of who God is, revealing what she truly believed about His character.
Alena has written a devotional called “God Is,” designed for teen girls and young women to understand God’s character – infinite, omnipotent, ever-present, good, loving, and our safe place. Theology isn’t just academic, it’s practical, personal, and essential for teens walking through real life.
Scripture references:
Isaiah 41:10
Check out Alena's book, God Is ― A Devotional for Teen Girls & Young Women: 60 Days of Learning Who God Is to Understand Who We Are:
https://www.amazon.com/Devotional-Teen-Girls-Young-Women/dp/B0DT8KRZZK
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Try before you buy? No. An important part of becoming one in marriage is the process of learning one another with each other. Relationships (and sex) take curiosity and communication, and the Perrys talk about how there’s joy in figuring things out together.
Our bodies matter to God. There’s protection in His design for sex to be experienced within the covenant of marriage, and God is grieved any time we give our bodies away.
A conversation like this can feel condemning, but God is merciful to restore our purity, remove memories of past intimacy, and help us point others to the hope of the Gospel too.
More episodes on this topic:
Discipling Kids in a Sexually Broken World With Laurie and Matt Krieg (With The Perrys)
What We Wish We Knew About Sex (With The Perrys)
An Honest Conversation about Marriage: Sex, Saying Sorry, & Love (WHOA That’s Good with Sadie & Christian Robertson)
Scripture references:
1 Corinthians 6:19
1 Corinthians 6:14
Romans 6:12-13
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