Afleveringen
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Joseph Chalom lays out why Ethereum Institutional exists, how it differs from Etherealize, and why he thinks Michael Saylor is in a pickle.
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Sharplink, BitMine, and Joe Lubin spent the past ten days launching two new organizations aimed at convincing Wall Street to build on Ethereum, backing them with commitments from more than fifty institutional supporters.
Joseph Chalom, CEO of Sharplink and a board member of the new Ethereum Institutional, joins Laura Shin to make the case that Ethereum's real competition isn't Solana or Canton. It's inertia: the reluctance of the world's largest institutions to touch financial rails they don't already trust.
Chalom walks through how Ethereum Institutional differs from Etherealize and the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, why Robinhood building on Arbitrum still counts as a win for Ethereum, and what it would take for ETH to capture the value flowing through the network as tokenized real-world assets grow past $31 billion. He pushes back on claims that the Ethereum Foundation's culture is broken, then turns to Strategy's preferred stock drama and says plainly that Michael Saylor is in a pickle.
Host:
Laura Shin, Host / Unchained
Guests:
Joseph Chalom - CEO of Sharplink
Timestamps
🚀 01:33 Why Sharplink, BitMine, and Joe Lubin launched Ethereum Institutional
🧭 05:51 How Ethereum Institutional differs from Etherealize and the EEA
🃏 10:15 Chalom says institutional inertia, not Solana, is Ethereum's real threat
💙 14:40 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained
💼 15:34 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
🧩 16:20 Why Chalom says Robinhood building on Arbitrum is still a win for Ethereum
⚡ 20:54 Does value actually flow back to ETH the token
🏛️ 24:33 Chalom pushes back on the idea that Ethereum's culture is broken
🤝 29:01 Why Chalom says Sharplink's shareholders and Ethereum's ecosystem are aligned
📉 32:18 Chalom says Michael Saylor is in a pickle over Strategy's preferred stock drama
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Nick Johnson's ENS vote sparked days of backlash. He and co-founder Alex Van de Sande join Uneasy Money to explain what actually happened.
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Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
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A routine two year renewal for the ENS DAO's Security Council failed on chain this week, and Nick Johnson, founder and CEO of ENS Labs, voted against it with roughly 50% of the active supply. Some users on X have since cast him as the villain seizing a $130 million treasury.
ENS co-founders Nick Johnson and Alex Van de Sande join Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to untangle what the vote means, and to defend a new proposal handing day-to-day treasury and protocol decisions to a foundation instead of the DAO.
They trace how ENS's governance fight mirrors Aave's, why its treasury has trailed a savings account, why Johnson never trusted ETH-weighted voting, and why his conviction in token governance has weakened.
The conversation lands on the question hanging over every well-funded DAO: once a protocol accumulates enough money to matter, can any voting mechanism decide who controls it?
Hosts:
Kain Warwick - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix
Taylor Monahan - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert
Guests:
Nick Johnson - Founder and CEO of ENS Labs
Alex Van de Sande - Cofounder of ENS
Timestamps
🗳️ 02:14 Kain unpacks whether Nick really controls the ENS Security Council vote
🔥 06:37 Taylor pushes back: is the pile-on on Nick actually fair?
⚔️ 11:30 Kain calls it a DAO governance proxy war, echoing Aave's Stani fight
🍯 15:00 Nick on why a DAO treasury becomes a honeypot for capital allocation
🪙 28:01 Nick on why ETH-weighted voting would have left ENS open to a takeover
⚖️ 32:47 Nick clarifies what the ENS Labs proposal actually changes at the DAO
🏛️ 40:27 Nick argues the DAO should stop trying to run ENS day-to-day
📣 52:04 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained
🍴 58:56 Could a fork let Nick walk off with ENS's treasury? Alex says no
🎤 01:13:31 Taylor asks Nick and Alex point blank: why are you still here?
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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David Lawant, Head of Research at Anchorage Digital, breaks down why Bitcoin's lack of native yield puts constant pressure on treasury companies, and makes the case that Michael Saylor's playbook is evolving rather than breaking.
Host:
Steven Ehrlich, Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview and Head of Research at Sharplink
Guest:
David Lawant, Head of Research at Anchorage Digital
This clip is from a longer conversation on Strategy's Stretch rescue plan and Bitcoin's options market. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/VwBxQTcJeXc
New Bits + Bips interviews are posted regularly - subscribe to catch the next one.
Sponsor:
👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
Chapters:
🎙️ 00:00 A new Citi report reveals why retail's crypto excitement has quietly collapsed
📉 00:17 Retail's bet on the Mag Seven just hit a multiyear low
😨 01:15 The unsettling reason retail fears Saylor becoming Bitcoin's buyer of last resort
🃏 01:44 Revisiting Saylor's infamous "sell your organs before your Bitcoin" line
🪙 02:34 The yield problem: why Bitcoin generates nothing, while Ethereum and Solana pay
📈 03:06 David on covered calls and the fast rise of synthetic yield strategies
🏛️ 04:39 Saylor, the OG who wrote the playbook on institutional Bitcoin accumulation
⚓ 06:28 Why David says Strategy is quietly weathering the storm better than anyone
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Regulators try to freeze illicit stablecoins, but the money's usually gone before the freeze lands. The hosts on why crypto sanctions keep failing.
Thanks to our sponsor!
👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
A new academic paper from researchers across several Chinese universities makes a striking claim: a stablecoin freeze isn't really a freeze until the transaction lands in a block — which means the freeze itself can be front-run, and sanctions enforcement becomes a market-structure problem.
Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le — three general counsels who live where law meets code — work through what it means that Tether and Circle now do much of the government's freezing onchain. The paper's numbers unsettle them: by its count, across eight years only nine freezes caught the money midway.
From there the hosts widen out: the SEC and CFTC's joint push to harmonize margin rules, your ChatGPT logs turning up as evidence in the courtroom, the Legion lawsuit testing whether export law can govern who logs in to an AI model, and the Bernstein ruling that made code protected speech.
They close with a sober CLARITY Act update, a new CBDC-ban roadblock tangled in an unrelated veto fight, and why the end of MiCA's transition period in Europe might be the week's real good news.
Hosts:
Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.
Jessi Brooks, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital
Vy Le - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda
Timestamps
🏛️ 02:32 KK on why the SEC and CFTC margin harmonization matters for crypto perps
🧊 11:39 Vy on ordering power as sanctioning power and the paper behind it
⚡ 14:43 Why a stablecoin freeze can itself be front run
⚖️ 22:09 The third party doctrine and the risk of deputizing crypto's neutral actors
📣 26:40 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
💻 27:36 Jessi on why AI in the courtroom is really a software control story
🚪 30:13 The Legion lawsuit, export law, and the Bernstein code-as-speech fight
🔒 37:14 ChatGPT logs as courtroom evidence and why your AI chats aren't private
🏔️ 42:20 The CLARITY Act update: why KK is even more bearish on passage
🇪🇺 47:48 Why MiCA's transition deadline is the week's crypto good news
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The crew is joined by Selini Capital’s Jordi Alexander to break down Open USD, the no-fee stablecoin from a 140-firm consortium spanning Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, all aimed at the Circle and Tether duopoly. Plus Saylor’s new Digital Credit framework for MicroStrategy, the Ansem-fueled memecoin comeback, and ENS reigniting the “DAOs are fake” debate.
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. Joining the panel “at the moment of max pain” is Jordi Alexander, CIO of Selini Capital. First up: MicroStrategy in crisis, with MSTR down about 30% in five days and STRC hitting $71, and Saylor’s answer, a new Digital Credit framework with an 18-month cash cushion and a jumbo dividend hike to 12%. Then the headline story, Open USD: a no-fee stablecoin from a 140-member consortium including Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, built to break the Circle and Tether duopoly.
The back half covers the memecoin comeback around the Ansem coin, and ENS reigniting the “DAOs are fake” debate after Nick Johnson single-handedly blocked a governance vote, before the crew debates whether consortia are just DAOs in a suit. Let’s get into it.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights
🔹 MSTR falls about 30% in five days and STRC hits $71. Saylor answers with a new “Digital Credit” framework, an 18-month cash cushion, and a jumbo dividend hike to 12%
🔹 Jordi calls the death-spiral panic overblown: “Luna was worthless; you cannot print Bitcoin”
🔹 Tarun stands by “Luna for suits,” comparing STRC’s marketing to Anchor, right down to the AI ad of Saylor escaping the Titanic
🔹 Open USD launches: a no-fee, no-cap stablecoin backed by 140 firms including Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, aimed at the Circle and Tether duopoly
🔹 Circle drops about 7 to 8% on the news, and Tether’s Paolo Ardoino “welcomes” a real competitor, the same bit he ran on Libra
🔹 Haseeb’s take: a 140-member consortium is “a signed petition,” good for expanding the market but not for taking Tether’s or Circle’s turf
🔹 Tarun says it all comes down to the revenue share. Set the wrong rules and someone just farms the rake
🔹 The Ansem coin sparks a memecoin revival, a roughly $100M cap the market hasn’t seen in a long time
🔹 ENS reignites the DAO debate as Nick Johnson blocks a treasury restructuring with about 50% of the vote. Are consortia just DAOs in a suit?
Hosts
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures
Guest
⭐️Jordi Alexander, CEO of Selini Capital
Disclosures
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:07 The DeSci beef and Tarun’s Ponzi crusade
03:30 MicroStrategy in crisis: Saylor’s Digital Credit reset
09:34 Is STRC still “Luna for suits”?
19:24 Open USD: 140 firms take on Circle and Tether
29:42 Why a 140-member consortium is just a “signed petition”
42:13 Coinbase’s two masters: USDC vs Open USD
47:01 The memecoin comeback and the Ansem coin
51:57 ENS blows up the DAO: Nick Johnson blocks the vote
57:26 DAOs vs consortia, and can AI save governance?
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Laura Shin has reported on crypto scams since the early days and wrote one of the first stories on sim swaps. That did not stop a spear-phishing attempt from getting her to download software and run a terminal command before she caught it.
Austin Campbell, Ram Ahluwalia, and Chris Perkins turn her near miss into a practical defense playbook, then debate whether self-custody still makes sense for anyone with a public crypto profile.
Hosts:
Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern
Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida
Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto
Guest:
Laura Shin - Founder and Host of Unchained
This clip is from a longer conversation on crypto security and social engineering. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/yKHaE6xMZsE
We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.
Sponsors:
👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
Chapters:
🎣 00:00 The fake podcast invite that nearly caught Laura Shin
💻 00:26 How far it went: a download, then a terminal command
🛡️ 05:02 Austin's hard rules for when someone puts time pressure on you
🏦 06:36 Why Ram says ETFs now beat self-custody for public figures
🥷 07:39 Chris on getting hacked and losing his Snoop Dogg NFT
🤖 10:41 Why the same playbook is coming for banks via AI voice clones
🦅 11:33 Chris on letting the private sector recover stolen crypto
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Is it Ethereum or bust? Ansgar Dietrichs makes the case that only Ethereum can anchor the financial system, and admits ETH still lacks a clear value story.
========================================================
Thank you to our sponsor!
Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: crypto.fidelitycareers.com.
Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
========================================================
The Ethereum Foundation is deliberately shrinking its role, and five former researchers have launched Ethlabs to take over the work they worry will otherwise go undone.
Ansgar Dietrichs, co-founder of Ethlabs, joins Laura Shin to lay out the split: the Foundation will protect what should not change, while Ethlabs pushes the parts of Ethereum that must evolve. He makes the case that the global economy is moving onchain, and that Ethereum is the only candidate to sit at the center of it, or no one will.
The conversation traces why ETH the asset has been stuck between $1,000 and $5,000 for five years, why Dietrichs thinks EIP-1559 and cheap blockspace were never intentional choices, how Ethlabs divides labor with the Foundation, Etherealize, and Consensys, and what DeFi founders like Uniswap's Hayden Adams actually need. The throughline is a single missing ingredient he keeps returning to: intentionality about what ETH is actually for.
Host:
Laura Shin, Host / Unchained
Guests:
Ansgar Dietrichs - Co-founder of Ethlabs
Timestamps
🏛️ 01:26 Why the Ethereum Foundation is stepping back and the gap Ethlabs fills
🌐 04:00 What Ethereum would look like if Ethlabs succeeds
🧱 07:56 Why Ethlabs is scaling the L1 and fixing interop at the same time
🤝 10:48 How Ethlabs divides labor with the EF, Etherealize, and Consensys
📣 18:34 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could shape the future of finance at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
🔐 19:16 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained
💸 20:15 Why ETH has been stuck waiting five years for its next act
🔗 24:24 Does L1 activity still drive ETH's value, and why ETH's interop lags
🔥 27:25 Why Ansgar says cheap blockspace and EIP-1559 were never intentional
🪙 33:27 Why being an Ethereum L2 isn't yet the superpower it should be
🦄 36:17 The culture at the EF and what kind of culture Ethlabs will have
🏢 39:41 The accountability loop: a two to three year runway and who Ethlabs serves
🛠️ 45:33 What DeFi founders actually need from Ethereum, per Hayden and others
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Carmen Li thought it was a joke when a perpetual futures marketplace asked her to become the market maker for her own index. It wasn't.
In this segment from Bits + Bips: The Interview, she walks Steven Ehrlich through the requests that alarmed her, a daughter analogy for why trading your own benchmark destroys neutrality, the manipulation risks she sees in crypto's index practices, and why she insists any perp venue on her index be regulated and guardrailed.
Host:
Steven Ehrlich - Host of Bits + Bips and Head of Research at Sharplink
Guest:
Carmen Li - CEO of Silicon Data and Compute Exchange
This clip is from a longer conversation on GPUs, compute markets, and crypto. Full episode here: https://www.youtube.com/live/rYDiPneJv20?si=fjS7bSd-bJ6c6tYb
We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.
Sponsors
Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
Chapters
🤝 00:00 The perp venues circling her index, and the request that immediately felt off
🚩 01:27 The ask she thought had to be a joke: become the market maker of your own index
👧 02:47 Carmen's daughter analogy that nails why trading your own index breaks neutrality
🛡️ 04:47 The guardrails that keep it honest: external audits and hard internal trading rules
🔀 05:36 Why you can't just swap one index for another and keep on trading
⚖️ 06:26 Her one demand for any perp venue building on her index: regulated and ring fenced
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A regulated exchange suing its own regulator almost never happens. The hosts trace why CME did it, and why the CFTC may have better odds than crypto Twitter thinks.
Thanks to our sponsor!
👉 Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com.
👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
CME has sued the CFTC, its own primary regulator, a rare move for a regulated exchange, landing the day after longtime CEO Terry Duffy announced he would step down. The trigger: the CFTC's approval of a narrowly tailored Kalshi Bitcoin perpetual, the first true perp cleared onshore.
Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le untangle CME's two arguments, that perps are swaps rather than futures, and that the agency acted arbitrarily by skipping notice and comment and reversing its own prior position in a single day. They weigh whether the case can win, and why the process may matter more than the outcome.
From there, the panel digs into Cboe's prediction-style S&P 500 contracts headed to Schwab's customers and the binary-option-versus-swap line. With a recent poll finding 43% of Americans believe AI could "literally end the human race," Jessi argues crypto can't afford to dismiss the people who become its juries, judges, and voters.
The conversation covers the CME lawsuit, prediction markets arriving on Wall Street, a viral $1 to $5 million crypto legal job, and the growing public backlash against AI.
Hosts:
Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.
Jessi Brooks, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital
Vy Le - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda
Timestamps
🏛️ 01:59 Why a regulated exchange suing its own regulator almost never happens
⚖️ 04:38 CME's two arguments, and why "future delivery" could reach the Supreme Court
🧠 12:51 Why process and durability may matter more than the outcome
🚪 19:54 How the Kalshi order opened the floodgates for self-certified perps
📊 23:48 Cboe's S&P 500 prediction contracts head to Schwab, and the binary-option-versus-swap line
🛡️ 33:27 Cape: Stop SIM swaps and get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained
💙 34:22 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
💼 35:05 The Pump.fun chief legal officer job and its $1 to $5 million salary
🤖 37:02 Why the AI vibe check has turned bleak and why crypto should care
🐶 47:10 This week's good news: the Marlins hunt for the hot dog meme
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Vinny Lingham warned 18 months ago that Michael Saylor would harm Bitcoin more than FTX. Now he maps how the Strategy empire breaks and the one move that could slow the bleed.
========================================================
Thank you to our sponsor!
Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: crypto.fidelitycareers.com.
Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
========================================================
Strategy's stock has fallen over 80% from its November 2024 high, its STRC preferred trades well below par, and a fresh $335 million raise has done nothing to restore confidence.
Vinny Lingham, co-founder of Praxos Capital, tweeted in October 2024 that Michael Saylor would do more damage to Bitcoin than FTX. On Unchained, he argues the collapse was always predictable, and that this is not a Ponzi but what he calls a 'Saylor scheme.'
Lingham maps how the empire breaks once MSTR trades at a discount to mNAV, why the 32-Bitcoin sale and the $1.5 billion buyback of 2029 converts blew Saylor's runway, and why $6.7 billion in convertible notes raises default risk by 2028. He also weighs a Soros-style attack theory and the switch to bimonthly dividends.
His fix is the one thing Saylor won't do: stop buying, stop diluting, wait it out. The question is who removes the biggest buyer of Bitcoin, him or the market.
Host:
Laura Shin, Host / Unchained
Guests:
Vinny Lingham - Co-founder of Praxos Capital
Timestamps
📉 01:11 Strategy in free fall: why Vinny says the collapse was always coming
🪤 06:24 Why buying back 2029 debt blew Saylor's runway
₿ 07:36 The '32 years of dividends' claim and what a deeper bear market does to it
🏚️ 10:23 How the MSTR empire actually breaks: the discount-to-mNAV trap
🎯 13:35 Why is Strategy faltering? Is it leverage or a Soros-style attack on MSTR?
💙 16:38 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained
💚 17:32 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
📆 18:15 Why switching to bimonthly dividends makes the problem worse
⏳ 19:29 The $6.7B convertible-note overhang and the 2028 default risk
🛟 22:07 Can MSTR be saved, and the most likely outcome from here
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An anti-MEV activist spent weeks building 66 fake contracts to trap the sandwich bot jaredfromsubway.eth. Then jared's operators did the one thing nobody expected.
========================================================
Thank you to our sponsors!
Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
========================================================
A new R&D lab called Ethlabs has split from the Ethereum Foundation, backed by Bitmine and Joe Lubin. Its first stated goal is solving a '15 minute finality problem' that none of the hosts can quite explain the point of.
Kain Warwick, Taylor Monahan, and Luca Netz ask whether a breakaway staffed largely by ex-EF people can really escape the EF's habits, or just rebuild a smaller version of them.
Then the conversation turns to fomo's $75M raise from non-crypto VCs, and why a trading app that never calls itself a wallet may have cracked the onboarding flow the rest of crypto keeps getting wrong.
The hosts also trace a CryptoPunks judge ordering a self-represented plaintiff to handwrite filings to stop the AI slop, the anti-MEV activist who trapped sandwich bot jaredfromsubway.eth with 66 fake contracts, and the WSJ's claim that Polymarket paid creators to stage fake winning bets.
Hosts:
Kain Warwick, Founder of Infinex and Synthetix
Taylor Monahan, Security Expert
Luca Netz, CEO of Pudgy Penguins
Timestamps
🧪 02:06 Ethlabs breaks from the EF: what the new R&D lab is actually for
🤔 03:57 Why the 'fifteen minute finality' framing baffles the hosts
📈 15:40 fomo's $75M raise and why a no-token trading app pulled it off
🧱 21:45 The wallet lesson: why building for trading beats building for custody
💙 30:48 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
⚖️ 31:44 The CryptoPunks lawsuit where a judge ordered AI-slop filings handwritten
🥪 41:04 What a sandwich bot is and why jaredfromsubway.eth became infamous
🪤 45:34 How an anti-MEV activist trapped Jared with 66 fake token contracts
🏛️ 50:46 Why Jared running to the courts under the CFAA makes no sense
😤 56:36 Kain on the exploiter who cries foul when someone finally steals from him
📺 59:20 The WSJ claim that Polymarket paid creators to stage fake winning bets
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The crew debates whether Saylor's STRC preferred shares are "Luna for suits," unpacks the ETH Labs spin-out and Ethereum Foundation layoffs, breaks down the CME's lawsuit against the CFTC to kill domestic perps, and weighs whether Meta's leaked prediction market Arena is a real threat to Polymarket.
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week, Saylor's STRC preferred shares, which have broken below their $100 target. Laura argues it's a confidence crisis, Tarun calls it "Luna for suits," and Haseeb pushes back — there's no death spiral, Saylor can just defer dividends and "burn the boat." Then the Ethereum Foundation shakeup: ETH Labs spinning out with seven senior EF members while the EF lays off 20% of its headcount.
The back half covers the CME suing the CFTC to block domestic perps — which Haseeb frames as "suing for the right to not compete" — and Meta's leaked prediction market Arena, where Tom reveals this is Meta's third or fourth attempt at prediction markets. Let's get into it.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights
🔹 Saylor's STRC preferred shares break below $100 target — Tarun calls it "Luna for suits"
🔹 Haseeb pushes back: no death spiral, no margin calls — Saylor can defer dividends and "burn the boat"
🔹 Tom reveals Strategy execs are cold-calling crypto funds to sell them STRC — "very Luna"
🔹 ETH Labs spins out with 7 senior EF members as the Foundation lays off ~20% of headcount
🔹 CME sues CFTC to block domestic perps — Haseeb: "suing for the right to not compete"
🔹 Haseeb proposes 100-year futures as a workaround to route around the lawsuit
🔹 Meta leaks prediction market Arena — Tom reveals this is Meta's third or fourth attempt at prediction markets
🔹 Tarun argues prediction markets will be viewed as information social networks within five years
Hosts
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures
Guest
⭐️Laura Shin, Journalist, Author of ‘The Cryptopians,’ Founder and CEO of Unchained
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:10 STRC & Strategy: Saylor "Luna for suits"
12:33 No death spiral — burn the boat
17:06 Strategy execs cold-calling crypto funds
20:06 Ethereum Foundation shakeup & ETH Labs spin-out
27:33 ETH Labs is the ghost of Tomasz
35:20 CME sues CFTC to block domestic perps
44:44 100-year futures as a workaround
50:29 Meta's prediction market "Arena"
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Three years ago, Chris Perkins sat across from Terry Duffy in Congress and made the case for perpetuals. Duffy pushed back — hard. Now Duffy's CME is suing the very regulator that finally allowed them.
The CME argues Bitcoin perpetual futures are really swaps and should carry far more collateral. Chris traces the Dodd-Frank history that created the swap-versus-future divide, and Austin Campbell lays out why picking this fight in a post-Chevron court could backfire on the incumbent. Is a perpetual a swap or a future, and who gets to decide?
Hosts:
Austin Campbell - Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern
Ram Ahluwalia - Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida
Chris Perkins - Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto
This clip is from a longer conversation on tokenization, the AI trade, and the CME's lawsuit against the CFTC. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/oSiOeWq_pKE
We go live every Monday at 4:30pm ET - subscribe to catch it live.
Sponsor
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Chapters
⚖️ 00:00 The incumbent sues its own regulator: what the CME is actually claiming
📜 01:22 Chris on Terry Duffy, and the testimony fight that set this up
🏛️ 02:12 The Dodd-Frank origin story, traced back to the 2009 G20
⏱️ 03:12 Why a 'swap' costs five days of margin and a future costs two
🌊 04:42 Constrain leverage onshore and watch it flee offshore
⚠️ 05:15 Austin: why the CME should be careful what it wishes for
🧨 06:26 The Dodd-Frank footnote where Congress admits it punted
🤝 08:20 ICE, OKX, and Kraken: where the dance partners line up
🎯 09:12 What the market really needs out of all this
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Was Michael Saylor wrong to sell Bitcoin? Matt Cole breaks from his fellow critics on Strategy, S&P's junk rating on MSTR, and whether the model is breaking.
========================================================
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Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
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Strive's Matt Cole had just lived through what he called the most difficult day in the history of digital credit when he sat down to defend it. STRC had touched $82.50, SATA had slipped into the low nineties, and the Bitcoin treasury trade was suddenly the most argued-over corner of crypto.
Cole came from a pension background and built Strive into one of the largest Bitcoin treasury companies around a single conviction: that structured credit can solve an income problem fiat can't. The critics, he argues, can't even agree with each other on what is actually wrong.
Was last week a leverage liquidation or a crack in the model? Did Michael Saylor quietly change his story? And is wrapping Bitcoin in preferred stock a betrayal of its ethos or the bridge most people actually need? Laura Shin pressed on all of it.
Host:
Laura Shin, Host / Unchained
Guests:
Matt Cole - Chairman and CEO of Strive
Timestamps
🎙️ 02:07 What Strive is, and why Matt calls SATA the company's main product
🏦 10:16 Could Strive cut SATA's 13% yield without breaking par?
👥 15:45 Who is actually buying SATA, and the one buyer Matt says he's never met
📣 25:15 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers and make the decision that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
🔒 25:58 Cape: Use code unchained for 33% off at https://cape.co/unchained
💧 27:28 What Matt thinks really drove last week's STRC drop, and why SATA didn't follow
🏛️ 31:28 Why Matt won't fault Saylor for selling, and the S&P rating he calls a joke
⚖️ 50:53 Is buying SATA un-Bitcoin? Matt answers the Mallers vs Saylor critique
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Kalshi just brought crypto perps to the US, targeting a $90 trillion offshore market. Its Head of Crypto, John Wang, explains the bet, the risks, and who Kalshi is actually competing with.
========================================================
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Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: crypto.fidelitycareers.com.
Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
========================================================
The $90 trillion offshore market for crypto perpetual futures just got its first US-regulated entrant. Kalshi — the prediction market exchange that raised $1 billion at a $22 billion valuation — launched the first CFTC-approved crypto perps, becoming the only domestic exchange approved on launch day.
John Wang, Kalshi's Head of Crypto, joins Laura Shin to map how perpetual futures work, why Kalshi's guarantee fund and segregated accounts differ from what offshore venues provide, and how the exchange plans to compete with Hyperliquid, Coinbase, and Kraken.
Wang pushes back on CME Group CEO Terry Duffy's claim that crypto perps are "a disaster waiting to happen," noting CME's own futures carry higher leverage than Kalshi's platform. He covers the ARCA and Galaxy block trades on Kalshi's prediction markets, insider trading protections built around athlete and congressional staff lists, and the regulatory filings separating Kalshi from perps on equities. Wang estimates only 0.2% of the US has adopted perpetual futures — the real growth has barely started.
Host:
Laura Shin, Host / Unchained
Guests:
John Wang - Head of Crypto at Kalshi
Timestamps
🎯 02:51 Why Kalshi chose crypto perps as its first product outside prediction markets
🔧 05:15 What a perpetual future is and why traders prefer it over options and standard futures
🤓 11:14 The metric that reveals real demand: Kalshi's ratio of trading volume to open interest
🛡️ 14:19 How Kalshi plans to onboard Americans, and how its risk model differs from Hyperliquid's auto-deleveraging
🏛️ 21:05 Wang on Terry Duffy's claim that crypto perps are 'a disaster waiting to happen'
🎓 23:17 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
📱 24:00 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
🤝 25:32 How institutions are pitching its perps to institutions — and which ones have so far done trades
🌐 33:09 How Kalshi plans to compete with Hyperliquid, Coinbase, Kraken, and Robinhood
🔍 41:14 How Kalshi attempts to prevent insider trading — and what John thinks about its rivalry with Polymarket
💰 46:16 Kalshi's roadmap after its $1 billion raise at a $22 billion valuation
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The government export-controlled Anthropic's best model. Kain, Luca, and Taylor debate whether Dario talked his way into it and what the shutdown means for every AI lab.
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========================================================
A reported jailbreak of Anthropic's most powerful model, Fable, triggered US government export controls, and the Uneasy Money hosts argue Dario Amodei's response on the call with the administration made it inevitable. Kain, Taylor, and Luca dig into what Dario got wrong, why a company about to go public had no one in Washington who could speak the government's language, and what it means that the shutdown drew no public backlash.
Porter Stowell, CEO of W3.io and a Coinbase alum, joins for the first half with his read on the exchange's big announcement day: agentic payments on Base, tokenized stocks, and a ground-up trading rebuild. Midway through, Luca drops something unannounced: Igloo has built a financial instrument to list crypto tokens directly on the NYSE as securities, with protocol revenue flowing back to holders.
The episode closes on Strategy, and why Kain thinks selling 32 Bitcoin, then buying back 1,587 two weeks later, exposes the structural risk of a belief-based asset with one dominant buyer.
Hosts:
Kain Warwick, Founder of Infinex and Synthetix
Taylor Monahan, Security Expert
Luca Netz, CEO of Pudgy Penguins
Guest:
Porter Stowell - CEO of W3.io
Timestamps
🏦 03:16 Porter Stowell on why Coinbase's announcement day signals a real shift in how the exchange competes
💬 06:26 Luca on why Coinbase's core trading product still lags: charts that won't load and page refreshes to buy Bitcoin
🤖 17:40 Porter on why agentic payments on Base is the real sleeper from Coinbase's announcement day
📋 25:10 What "real" means in Coinbase's tokenized stocks launch and whether the custody approach actually differentiates it
💡 34:15 Luca reveals Igloo's instrument to list crypto tokens directly on the NYSE as securities
📣 41:12 Multichain Advisors: Navigate TGEs, go-to-market, and capital markets advisory at https://multichainadv.com
🧠 41:54 What Fable was, why it scared security researchers, and how a reported jailbreak report ended it
⚠️ 48:36 Taylor on why Anthropic's communications with the government made the Fable export control inevitable
🏛️ 57:09 Kain on why the Fable shutdown is the 'first fracture' in AI, and what the lack of pushback means
🌍 01:00:18 Binance's EU license bid in doubt, and Kain's contrarian case that losing Europe is bullish
📉 01:07:32 Strategy sold 32 Bitcoin on June 1 then bought back 1,587: what the panic reaction revealed about Bitcoin's concentration risk
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Zach Pandl, Head of Research at Grayscale Investments, argues that speculative retail flows, not geopolitical fundamentals, drove the recent gold and Bitcoin selloffs. His read: momentum chasing built gold from $4,000 to well above $5,000, then rotated out to chips and pre-IPO trades. The underlying deficit-and-debt case for both assets hasn't changed, and he's calling the dip a buy for longer-horizon investors.
He closes with Grayscale's H2 DeFi revenue thesis. Hyperliquid is the clearest proof of concept: a protocol with a clear use case, real revenue, and value returned to token holders. Grayscale applied a discounted cash flow model to Aave and published a price target on the token.
Host:
Steven Ehrlich, Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview and Head of Research at Sharplink - https://x.com/Steven_Ehrlich
Guest:
Zach Pandl - Head of Research at Grayscale Investments - https://x.com/LowBeta
This clip is from a longer conversation on the Fed's hawkish pivot, the SpaceX IPO, crypto winter, and Strategy's preferred equity. Full episode here: https://www.youtube.com/live/WIlLtRQidQg?si=ONIIkcPElZFgpa8l
We go live every Thursday at 12:00pm ET - subscribe to catch it live.
Sponsors
Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
Chapters
🔍 00:00 Steve on gold and Bitcoin's worst quarter - what happened during the Iran war
📊 00:57 Why Pandl argues speculation, not fundamentals, drove both the run-up and the selloff
🥇 02:42 The buy case - Pandl on what to do when speculative excess washes out
💡 03:25 Steve asks about second-half assets and Standard Chartered's Uniswap call
💰 03:50 Why Hyperliquid and Aave anchor Grayscale's H2 DeFi revenue thesis
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The federal government pulled Anthropic's Fable 5 offline with no public process — and Jessi Brooks makes the case it's a crypto chokepoint story, not just an AI one.
Thanks to our sponsor!
👉 Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com.
👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
The federal government forced Anthropic to take Fable 5 offline last week, and the justification is still murky. Jessi Brooks makes the case that what began as a cybersecurity story is really a chokepoint story, one crypto has seen before. With no transparent process, no technical experts cited, and no clear legal authority, she argues the administration has effectively invented KYC for AI, raising questions far beyond Anthropic.
Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le work through two regulatory moves with real market-structure stakes. The CFTC released a near-300-page proposed rule on prediction markets, amending Rule 40.11 and clearing political event contracts. The SEC moved to repeal Reg NMS Rules 611 and 610E, two-decade-old market pillars.
Vy Le argues the repeal is crypto's real opening: stop forcing AMMs to fit the old rules and start building the replacement, where solver auctions and cryptographic attestations let investors and regulators verify execution in real time. The throughline across the week is the same: when Washington moves this fast and quietly, is crypto the cautionary tale or the fix?
Hosts:
Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.
Jessi Brooks, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital
Vy Le - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda
Timestamps
🤖 03:04 Why the Fable 5 shutdown is a chokepoint story, not just a security one
🔑 09:36 Jessi on why inventing KYC for AI with no process echoes the Gensler era
☢️ 18:48 Why Vy Le puts AI on the threat level of the nuclear bomb
🏛️ 22:36 What the CFTC's near-300-page prediction-markets rule changes in Rule 40.11
📣 34:21 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
📈 36:32 Why the SEC's Reg NMS repeal could clear the way for onchain markets
⚙️ 41:18 Why Vy Le says crypto already built the tools for better best execution
📑 46:42 Why Citi's 'tokenized shares' aren't shares, plus Coinbase's onchain dividends
🦕 51:26 Crypto good news: Jurassic Finance tokenizes dinosaur bones
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The crew breaks down the SpaceX IPO's crypto-like low float dynamics and Hyperliquid's price prediction, debates accredited investor laws and failed tokenized stock allocations, dives into Fable 5's export control shutdown after Amazon flagged a jailbreak to the Treasury Secretary, and argues whether open source AI models will eat frontier pricing.
Welcome to The Chopping Block — where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. Robert is back after a brief hiatus recording his own podcast, The Pop, for Superstate — and the crew wastes no time roasting him for it before diving into the biggest week of news in recent memory.
First up: the SpaceX IPO, the largest in history, and why it looks eerily like a crypto token launch — 4.2% float, retail getting cut out, and Hyperliquid perps predicting the first-day pop almost to the dollar. The crew debates TradeXYZ's winner-take-all dominance of HIP3 and why building on top of Hyperliquid might be a terrible startup environment. Then they unpack Elon's financial engineering genius — the Cursor acquisition as all-stock crypto playbook, XAI's pivot from failed AI lab to compute reseller, and why Grok is (unanimously) an embarrassing piece of shit.
The conversation shifts to accredited investor laws, SPV dentists, and why every crypto platform failed to deliver SpaceX IPO allocations. From there, Coinbase's massive system update — tokenized stocks, an SEC-registered AI chatbot, combos, and 15-minute markets. Then things get spicy: Robert asks Claude about SBF on air, Sonnet gets it hilariously wrong, and everyone roasts him for not using Opus.
The back half is all about Fable 5 — Amazon's jailbreak discovery, Andy Jassy calling Dario (who didn't pick up), and the export controls that shut down the most powerful commercial AI model ever released. Robert drops his most surprising take: "I am EAC, but this is a dry run of pressing the pause button." The episode closes with a heated debate on whether Chinese open source models will eat frontier AI pricing and a bet that may or may not have been agreed upon.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights
🔹 SpaceX IPO breaks records with a 4.2% float — the closest thing to a crypto token launch Wall Street has ever done
🔹 Hyperliquid perps predicted the SpaceX first-day pop almost exactly, with $1.4B in daily volume on a single stock
🔹 TradeXYZ dominates HIP3 as other integrators fold — "HIP3 should be renamed to Trade"
🔹 SpaceX's all-stock Cursor acquisition mirrors the CZ/FTT playbook — Elon learned from crypto
🔹 Accredited investor laws debated after Brian Armstrong calls for reform post-SpaceX IPO
🔹 Every crypto platform that promised SpaceX IPO allocations failed to deliver after the deal went 5x oversubscribed
🔹 Coinbase launches tokenized stocks with real dividends, an SEC-registered AI advisor, combos, and 15-minute markets
🔹 Robert asks Claude about SBF on air — Sonnet 4.6 hallucinates, Opus 4.8 gets it right, model war ensues
🔹 Fable 5 shut down after Amazon flagged a jailbreak to Treasury Secretary Bessent — Dario didn't pick up the phone
🔹 Robert says "I am EAC" but argues the Fable shutdown is a healthy dry run of pressing the AI pause button
Hosts
⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly
⭐️Robert Leshner, CEO & Co-founder of Superstate
⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures
⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly Disclosures
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For the tenth anniversary of Unchained, Laura reflects on the SBF question she never asked, the Charles Hoskinson beef, and why she may be done with strict neutrality.
========================================================
Thank you to our sponsor!
Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: crypto.fidelitycareers.com.
Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).
========================================================
Unchained started as a side project by Laura in 2016, with two interviews recorded on Necker Island. Ten years later, it’s become a network of podcasts and newsletters. Haseeb Qureshi of one of most beloved podcasts on the network, The Chopping Block, chats with Laura about everything from its origins to biggest regrets to her interview style and more. Plus, she reveals the one regret she has over a question she never got to ask Sam Bankman-Fried after the collapse of FTX.
Haseeb, managing partner at Dragonfly and an effective altruist himself, traces whether EA's moral framework enabled SBF's fraud, or whether SBF simply had ordinary delusions of grandeur.
The conversation also moves through Charles Hoskinson's disputed PhD claims, the Brian Armstrong interview that never happened, and Laura's emerging conviction that ten years of institutional disillusionment may be pushing her away from the neutrality that built her career.
Host:
Laura Shin, Host / Unchained
Guests:
Haseeb Qureshi - Managing Partner of Dragonfly - https://x.com/hosseeb
Timestamps
🎙️ 1:46 How Unchained started: Necker Island, first guests, and the year-one sponsor
📰 6:46 Why Laura sold her crypto for journalism ethics and why she bought back in years later
😳 10:45 Why the SBF collapse was Laura's biggest shock in 11 years of covering crypto
🧠 14:24 Laura's 'license to play God' critique of effective altruism and Haseeb's rebuttal
❓ 23:32 The question Laura would have asked SBF after the FTX Collapse and why nobody did
🎤 25:16 Why Brian Armstrong has never been on the show and Laura's neutrality code
📣 30:08 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers and make the decision that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com
🌐 30:58 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
⚔️ 32:19 Laura ranks her worst and best Crypto Twitter brawls
🎭 38:33 Why Haseeb thinks The Chopping Block works best as a play, not a roundtable
🤔 47:06 Laura asks whether she should shed journalistic neutrality after ten years
🗞️ 51:06 Why Laura now believes independent journalism is better for humanity
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