Afleveringen
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In this episode of Unravelling, filmmaker and Occidental College professor Aleem Hossain joins host Kurt White for a wide-ranging conversation on the role creativity plays in both personal fulfillment and mental health. Aleem reflects on how making art can serve not only others, but our future selvesâleaving behind breadcrumbs of who we were and what we felt. Together, he and Kurt unpack the personal and cultural barriers to embracing creativity, the importance of play and exploration without an end goal, and the joy of saying yes to oneâs creative impulses.
They also explore the idea that consuming art is a creative act in itselfâone that invites us to pause, feel, reflect, and connect with the full spectrum of being human. This episode is a reminder that being creative doesnât mean being perfect or productive. Sometimes it just means making a little space, not judging yourself, and seeing what shows up.Links:
Go to aleemhossein.com to learn more about Aleem's films and to subscribe to his newsletter on issues of creativity, inclusion, and diversity in filmmaking.
For an old photo of Kurt and Aleem at University of Chicago, and a picture of the 25 aliens that Kurt drew after this episode, click here!
If you enjoy Unravelling, leave a positive review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to us and tell you friends about us!
And listeners, take note! We always want to hear from you with reactions, topic ideas, stories or other suggestions. Send us an email, an old fashioned voice message, or a voice memo by using [email protected] or by calling 802-258-POD3 (802-258-7633)!
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In this special crossover episode with Never Post, Unravelling host Kurt White joins writer and digital media expert Mike Rugnetta to explore how the internet shapes identity, self-perception, and mental health. From TikTok trends to the eerie accuracy of algorithmic recommendations, they unpack the tension between authenticity and performance in online spaces. How does the internet reinforce or distort who we are? What happens when our digital selves feel more real than our offline ones?
They also explore surprising parallels between online spaces and therapy, both offering structured spaces for identity exploration, while discussing the dangers of rigid self-concepts and the necessity of relationships in making sense of our experiences. Ultimately, this episode offers a hopeful perspective on engaging with the digital world: with awareness, playfulness, and the power to shape our own narratives.
Listen to Never Post, A Podcast About and For the Internet: https://www.neverpo.st/
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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In this episode of Unravelling, host Mary Wilson is joined by Betsy Stade, research scientist and clinical psychologist at the Stanford Institute for Human Centered AI, to explore the profound ways AI is reshaping therapy, mental health support, and human connection itself.
From AI-powered chatbots offering round-the-clock emotional support to cutting-edge research on how large language models like ChatGPT are used in therapy, Betsy unpacks the opportunities, risks, and ethical dilemmas of integrating AI into mental health care. The conversation dives into AIâs surprising ability to mimic empathyâsometimes even outperforming human professionals in perceived compassion. But what does this mean for real human connection?
Betsy also shares groundbreaking research from her lab on AI-assisted cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and AI training tools for therapists.
Links:
Betsy Stade's personal website: https://betsystade.github.io/
Stanford Institute for Human Centered AI
National Center for PTSD Mobile Apps: https://www.ptsd.va.gov/appvid/mobile/
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In this episode of Unravelling, psychologist Dr. Zoeann Finzi-Adams speaks with Mary about the complexities of mental health in Black women, examining how racism and sexism intersect to shape their experiences. She challenges the "Strong Black Woman" archetype, which often forces Black women to prioritize resilience over their own well-being, making it harder to seek help or even believe they deserve it. She also unpacks the concept of group-based stressors, discussing how chronic exposure to discrimination, political and social stressors, and the cumulative effects of systemic oppressionâoften referred to as 'weathering'âimpact psychological well-being. Dr. Finzi-Adams emphasizes the critical need to reframe social support as a strength rather than a weakness and encourages mental health providers to ask difficult questions, stay curious, and create spaces where Black women feel seen and supported in their healing journeys.
Resources:
https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/handbook-on-counseling-african-american-women-9781440875953/
https://therapyforblackgirls.com/
https://www.thebirthfund.com/
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In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt White sits down with Professor Nnamdi Pole, Harold and Elsa Israel Professor of Psychology and Chair of the Psychology Department at Smith College, to discuss his course, The Psychology of the Black Experience. Professor Pole shares insights from his long-running course, delving into the role of psychology in understanding Black identity, collective experiences, and the impact of systemic forces like racism.
The conversation unpacks the origins of Black psychology as a response to scientific racism, which historically justified stereotypes of Black inferiority through flawed studies on IQ, skull sizes, and other biased metrics. Professor Pole traces the emergence of the Association of Black Psychologists and discusses the two major strands of Black psychologyâone that counters racism by centering Black experiences, and another that explores pre-colonial African psychological traditions, emphasizing collectivism, spirituality, and alternative concepts of selfhood.
The discussion also tackles the evolving definition of race, the spectrum of racism from unconscious biases to systemic discrimination, and the challenges of teaching about race in a classroom with both Black and non-Black students. Professor Pole critiques colorblind ideologies, advocating instead for a pluralistic society where diverse identities are recognized and valued.
Many special thanks to Northfire Recording Studio in Amherst, MA, which provided space and equipment for our recording of this episode!
Links:
Professor Pole is available to do public speaking and/or diversity training in person or remotely for schools, clinical settings, or corporate settings. You can reach him at [email protected].
He suggests the following textbook and supplementary readings if you'd like to learn more:
Textbook: Belgrave, F.Z. & Allison, K.W. (2019). African American Psychology: From Africa to America (4th Edition). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage.
Kahn, K. B., & McMahon, J. M. (2015). Shooting deaths of unarmed racial minorities: Understanding the role of racial stereotypes on decisions to shoot. Translational Issues in Psychological Science, 1(4), 310â320.
Karras J. E., Niwa E. Y., Adesina F., Ruck M. D. (2021) Confronting whiteness: Conceptual, contextual, and methodological considerations for advancing ethnic-racial socialization research to illuminate white identity development. Journal of Social Issues. 77: 1305â1326.
Lewis, J. A. (2023). Contributions of Black psychology scholars to models of racism and health: Applying intersectionality to center Black women. American Psychologist, 78(4), 576â588.
Lundberg, Kristjen B.; Payne, B. Keith; Pasek, Josh; Krosnick, Jon A. (2017). "Racial Attitudes Predicted Changes in Ostensibly RaceâNeutral Political Attitudes Under the Obama Administration." Political Psychology 38(2): 313-330.
Steele, C. M. (1997). A threat in the air: How stereotypes shape intellectual identity and performance. American Psychologist, 52(6), 613â629.
Vandiver, B. J. (2024). Fifty Years (1974â2024) of the Journal of Black Psychology: A Brief History and Reflection of Its Significance. Journal of Black Psychology, 50(1), 3-8.
Williams, M. T. (2021). Racial microaggressions: Critical questions, state of the science, and new directions. Perspectives on Psychological Science, 16(5), 880â885.
Selected videos:
The Race Gap: How U.S. systemic racism plays out in Black lives
Positive Racial Identity in Early Education
Seeing White
The Fake Link Between Race and Intelligence
Black Youth Suicide
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This episode of Unravelling dives into the cultural, social, and personal complexities of alcohol use. As Dry January wraps up, many are reflecting on the role alcohol plays in their lives. Mary Wilson speaks with Jeanette Hu, a California-based psychotherapist and creator of the Sober Curiosity Lab, to explore the concept of "sober curiosity." Jeanette shares her insights on how alcohol is deeply woven into our societal fabric, why itâs often glamorized, and how its subtle costs are frequently overlooked. From questioning beliefs about drinking to exploring the emotional and physiological impacts of alcohol, this conversation offers a compassionate, nonjudgmental space to rethink our relationship with drinking. Whether you're a daily drinker, sober curious, or simply rethinking your habits, this episode invites you to reflect on how alcohol fits into your lifeâand how it might not.
Links:
Jeanette Hu's website: https://www.youcanhealwellness.com/
Free Dry January Playbook: https://www.sobercuriosity.co/lead-magnet-Dry-Jan-playbook
Free 30 Reasons Why People Drink Checklist: https://www.sobercuriosity.co/lead-magnet-30-reason-why-list-1 -
In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt White sits down with his colleague Dr. Geoff Kane, MD, MPH, Emeritus Chief of Addiction Services at the Brattleboro Retreat, to delve into the evolving understanding of alcoholâs health risks. This timely discussion comes amid growing research, including the U.S. Surgeon Generalâs call for alcohol warning labels and Canadaâs updated guidelines, which reveal significant risks even at low levels of consumption. While the conversation touches on the most extreme cases of alcohol use, the real emphasis is on the everyday drinkersâthe majority who might not yet realize the potential risks theyâre facing. Dr. Kane explains that alcoholâs effects, such as the risk of certain cancers, increase with consumption, especially for women. He emphasizes personal autonomy and risk tolerance, encouraging listeners to weigh the potential health impacts against their personal choices and values. With an emphasis on informed decision-making, Dr. Kane aims to empower individuals with the knowledge to navigate their relationship with alcohol thoughtfully.
Links: Dr. Goeff Kane's website: Meetinghouse Solutions | Love. Serve. Laugh. Make a Difference.
Beyond the Two Pillars of Recovery Podcast: Beyond The Two Pillars of RecoveryÂź: a MEETINGHOUSE SOLUTIONSÂź Podcast With Geoff Kane, MD, MPH | Podcast on Spotify -
Start the New Year with a special thought-provoking episode of Unravelling. Hosts Kurt White and Mary Wilson are joined by Brattleboro Retreat postdoctoral psychology fellow Mary Iellamo to revisit a compelling panel from the Brattleboro Literary Festival. Moderated by Iellamo, this conversation brings together authors Anna Shechtman (The Riddles of the Sphinx) and Emmeline Clein (Dead Weight), who were each featured individually in the previous two episodes of Unravelling (episodes 13 and 14).
With clips from the panel, this episode delves into the cultural narratives surrounding eating disorders, unpacking the paradoxes of connection and competition in recovery. It also tackles critical questions about treatment: how do we balance harm prevention with addressing the systemic causes of these illnesses? And how can innovative strategiesâlike group outings that mimic real-life social experiencesâbe integrated into care, even when they provoke anxiety?
The conversation concludes by exploring how treatment centers and individuals can create spaces for recovery that support autonomy, healing, and meaningful connections.Links:
Anna Shechtman's website: Anna Shechtman
The Riddles of the Sphinx: The Riddles of the Sphinx â HarperCollins
Emmeline Clein's website: https://emmelineclein.net/Homepage
Dead Weight: https://www.amazon.com/Dead-Weight-Essays-Hunger-Harm/dp/0593536908
Brattleboro Literary Festival: https://brattleborolitfest.org/
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In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt White sits down with Anna Shechtman, author and renowned crossword creator, at the Brattleboro Literary Festival to discuss her book, The Riddles of the Sphinx: Inheriting the Feminist History of the Crossword Puzzle.
At age 15, Anna began crafting crossword puzzles while navigating the complexities of disordered eatingâtwo practices tied by perfectionism, control, and language. Kurt and Anna explore the paradoxes of anorexia: the illusion of control amidst chaos, the pursuit of gratification without pleasure, and societyâs celebration of self-discipline at the cost of self-destruction.
Anna reflects on how crossword construction became a âperfect substitution,â mirroring her fraught relationship with identity and body, offering a fragile sense of stability. Together, they examine the cultural and political forces shaping eating disorders, the competing ideals placed on women, and the tensions between feminist resistance and internalized misogyny.
Anna reminds us that recovery is hard workâbut not as hard as living within an active disorderâand that healing begins with connection, both to others and to ourselves.
Links:
Anna's website: Anna Shechtman
The Riddles of the Sphinx: The Riddles of the Sphinx â HarperCollins
Brattleboro Literary Festival: https://brattleborolitfest.org/about/
Calling our listeners!
We want to hear from you! We're cooking up a special episode and need your voice in the mix. Have a question, thoughts on a past episode, or something happening in your life youâd love to explore through the lens of mental health? You can call, email, or send us a voice memoâand you just might hear yourself on a future episode of Unravelling. Weâre excited to hear whatâs on your mind!Leave a voicemail at 802-258-3763 (802-258-3POD)
Email or send a voice memo to [email protected]
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In this episode of Unravelling, Mary Wilson interviews Emmeline Clein, author of Dead Weight: Essays on Hunger and Harm and a featured guest at the 2024 Brattleboro Literary Festival. Emmeline critiques the systemic failures in diagnosing and treating eating disorders, highlighting the emotional invalidation many patients faceâparticularly the harm of being told they donât "qualify" for certain diagnoses. She explores how treatment centers often reinforce disordered behaviors instead of addressing them holistically and reflects on the lifelong process of managing disordered eating in a culture obsessed with thinness. Emmeline shares how education about the history of beauty standards and diagnostic systems can reduce shame and foster empowerment. Advocating for open dialogue and community in treatment settings, she offers a vision for creating more effective and compassionate support systems.
Links:
Emmeline Clein's website: https://emmelineclein.net/Homepage
Dead Weight: Essays on Hunger and Harm: https://www.amazon.com/Dead-Weight-Essays-Hunger-Harm/dp/0593536908
Brattleboro Literary Festival: https://brattleborolitfest.org/
Calling our listeners!
We want to hear from you! We're cooking up a special episode and need your voice in the mix. Have a question, thoughts on a past episode, or something happening in your life youâd love to explore through the lens of mental health? You can call, email, or send us a voice memoâand you just might hear yourself on a future episode of Unravelling. Weâre excited to hear whatâs on your mind!Leave a voicemail at 802-258-3763 (802-258-3POD)
Email or send a voice memo to [email protected]
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Description: In this episode of Unravelling, Mary Wilson speaks with Angel Cassin, CEO of Together Estranged, about the complex and often taboo topic of family estrangement. Angel shares her own journey of going no-contact with her mother, the stigma she encountered, and the community she found through Together Estranged. The conversation explores the spectrum of estrangement, the role of boundaries, and societal expectations around reconciliation. Angel sheds light on the diverse reasons behind estrangement, such as non-acceptance due to identity, conflicting values, or a history of abuse, and how these factors shape the experience of those affected. She also explores the power of chosen families and online communities in creating a sense of belonging and support for those who feel isolated.
Links
Website: https://www.togetherestranged.org/
About Estrangement: https://www.togetherestranged.org/copy-of-research-learning
Navigating Events Resource: https://www.togetherestranged.org/navigatingevents
Togetherness Series/Events page (where folks can sign up for our monthly meet): https://www.togetherestranged.org/event-list
Blog Series: https://www.togetherestranged.org/blog
Calling our listeners!
We want to hear from you! We're cooking up a special episode and need your voice in the mix. Have a question, thoughts on a past episode, or something happening in your life youâd love to explore through the lens of mental health? You can call, email, or send us a voice memoâand you just might hear yourself on a future episode of Unravelling. Weâre excited to hear whatâs on your mind!Leave a voicemail at 802-258-3763 (802-258-3POD)
Email or send a voice memo to [email protected]
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In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt White speaks with Dr. Kevin Smith, a political scientist at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, about the connection between politics, stress, and mental health. They discuss Dr. Smith's research indicating that political engagement can trigger physiological stress responses, with increased attention to politics in our information-saturated environment correlating with higher stress and negative health impacts. Kurt prompts a conversation about the societal responsibility to engage in democracy while minimizing these effects, and Kevin shares that his lab is investigating interventions to help individuals navigate the emotional challenges of political engagement. As they explore the post-election landscape, Kevin notes that while anxiety levels may rise before elections, research suggests that post-election stress remains relatively stable, reassuring listeners of the resilience of democratic institutions and emphasizing that the political climate is often more stable than it appears. Kurt and Kevin both emphasize the role of social connections in reducing stress. Kevin encourages reaching out to people with different political views and building diverse social networks to stay grounded during political turmoil.
Connect with Dr. Kevin Smith, and learn more about his work and research:
X: @nivek_htims
Personal website: Kevin B. Smith | Author, Professor, Political Scientist (kevinbsmith.com)
Calling our listeners!
We want to hear from you! We're cooking up a special episode and need your voice in the mix. Have a question, thoughts on a past episode, or something happening in your life youâd love to explore through the lens of mental health? You can call, email, or send us a voice memoâand you just might hear yourself on a future episode of Unravelling. Weâre excited to hear whatâs on your mind!Leave a voicemail at 802-258-3763 (802-258-3POD)
Email or send a voice memo to [email protected]
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Description:
This episode of Unravelling delves into peer-led mental health care by exploring the work of Stefanie Lyn Kaufman-Mthimkhulu, founder of Project LETS. This national grassroots organization centers the voices of individuals with lived experience through its peer support model. Mary Wilson interviews Stefanie who recounts their personal journey of founding Project LETS in high school, spurred by the suicide of a friend and the failure of traditional mental health systems to support grieving students. They discuss how peer support redefines conventional power dynamics in mental health care, shifting the focus to those directly impacted by mental health challenges. Stefanie advocates for community-based alternatives to mainstream mental health care, calling for a reexamination of how we define and approach mental health. They emphasize the transformative power of peer support in empowering individuals and reshaping the future of mental health care.
Links:Learn more about Project LETS and the peer support model - Project LETS
Get in touch with Stefanie Lyn Kaufman-Mthimkhulu - Stefanie Lyn Kaufman-Mthimkhulu (stefaniekaufman.com)
Calling our listeners!
We want to hear from you! We're cooking up a special episode and need your voice in the mix. Have a question, thoughts on a past episode, or something happening in your life youâd love to explore through the lens of mental health? You can call, email, or send us a voice memoâand you just might hear yourself on a future episode of Unravelling. Weâre excited to hear whatâs on your mind!Leave a voicemail at 802-258-3763 (802-258-3POD)
Email or send a voice memo to [email protected]
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Description: In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt speaks with psychologist Dr. Jaakko Seikkula about his pioneering work in Open Dialogue. Developed in the 1980s in Western Lapland, Open Dialogue reshapes the way we respond to mental health crises, focusing on the power of human connection and the importance of involving a personâs entire social network in their healing process. Dr. Seikkula discusses his research in Finland, where Open Dialogue dramatically reduced relapse rates in psychosis and inspired mental health professionals around the world to challenge conventional approaches to mental health treatment.
Links:
Learn more about the Open Dialogue Approach:
Re-humanising Mental Health Systems: A Discussion with Jaakko Seikkula on the Open Dialogue Approach - Mad In AmericaThe Institute for Dialogic Practice: https://www.dialogicpractice.net/
Calling our listeners!
We want to hear from you! We're cooking up a special episode and need your voice in the mix. Have a question, thoughts on a past episode, or something happening in your life youâd love to explore through the lens of mental health? You can call, email, or send us a voice memoâand you just might hear yourself on a future episode of Unravelling. Weâre excited to hear whatâs on your mind!Leave a voicemail at 802-258-3763 (802-258-3POD)
Email or send a voice memo to [email protected]
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In this episode of Unravelling, Mary interviews Anna Mueller, a sociologist and leading expert on youth suicide and prevention. Annaâs groundbreaking work examines the social roots of suicide and how these underlying factors create vulnerability in young people. Drawing from her fieldwork and new book, Life under Pressure: The Social Roots of Youth Suicide and What to Do About Them, she sheds light on suicide clusters and the social contagion of suicide. Challenging the common view of suicide as an individual issue, Anna emphasizes the importance of understanding the societal pressures that impact young people. She discusses how certain communities, with rigid cultural norms, create an environment where deviation from perfection is met with shameâputting youth at greater risk.
Links
Learn more about Anna Mueller: Anna S Mueller, PhD | Luther Dana Waterman Associate Professor, Department of Sociology, Indiana UniversityFind her book here: Life under Pressure - Anna S. Mueller; Seth Abrutyn - Oxford University Press (oup.com)In honor of Suicide Prevention Awareness Month, Oxford University Press is offering the first chapter of the book for free by clicking here: https://academic.oup.com/book/56082/chapter/442692773...American Foundation for Suicide Prevention https://afsp.org/988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Call or text 988 to talk to someone confidentially, available 24/7/365 https://988lifeline.org/ -
Special early release of Unravelling - one day early to coincide with World Suicide Prevention Day, Sept. 10.
In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt White interviews Kirk Woodring, a licensed social worker with extensive experience in suicide prevention. Kirk shares how his brotherâs suicide and his work in crisis intervention have shaped both his personal and professional life. He discusses the stigma and discomfort that surround suicide, even among professionals, and challenges misconceptions like the idea that talking about it encourages suicidal behavior. He stresses the importance of normalizing these conversations to reduce isolation and open avenues for help. Reflecting on his brotherâs death, Kirk reveals the difficulties of addressing suicide with loved ones, even as a mental health professional.
Links:
https://afsp.org/ American Foundation for Suicide Prevention
https://988lifeline.org/ 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Call or text 988 to talk to someone confidentially, available 24/7/365
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In this episode of Unravelling, Mary interviews Pedro FabiĂŁo, a psychotherapist, psychodramatist, and clown! Pedro shares how embracing playfulness and reconnecting with one's inner child can lead to deeper self-awareness and authentic connections. Drawing from his experiences leading workshops internationally, Pedro discusses how the art of clowning invites us to shed societal roles, be fully present in the moment, and rediscover our humanity through joy and creativity.
Picture of Pedro and Kurt at IAGP Congress, Malmo, 2018Links:
Find Pedro on Instagram - Pedro FabiĂŁo (@pedrofabiao) âą Instagram photos and videos
Workshops: Expect Nothing - The Art of Embracing Uncertainty (notion.site)
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In this episode of Unravelling, Kurt interviews Dr. Drew Pate, a psychiatrist, who discusses the complex nature of grief and loss. He shares his journey into understanding grief, which began early in his career and became more personal after the losses of his father and wife. He highlights how grief is often misunderstood and pathologized in society, rather than recognized as a natural part of the human experience. The conversation delves into the importance of accepting grief, the challenges of supporting those who are grieving, and how experiences of loss can change one's perspective on life. The episode offers insights into the universal yet deeply personal experience of grief, and how to better support themselves and others through it.
Resources
If you're grieving and looking for support, Dr. Pate recommends connecting with local religious and specialty disease organizations, which often offer grief support groups. Your community hospice can be a good place to startââmany hospice programs offer grief groups or can refer you to a professional who can help. Dr. Pate also recommends the book, "Three Roads Back," which profiles three American writers and thinkers who dealt with personal tragedies early in their careers.
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In this episode of Unravelling, we delve into the emotional needs of individuals facing the end of their lives. Pamela Gasek, a certified death doula, shares her insights and experiences, explaining how a death doula supports both individuals and their families through the dying process. Hosts Kurt White and Mary Wilson discuss Kurt's personal experience with losing his mother, highlighting how the principles of death doula care help both the dying and their families navigate this challenging time and find meaning in life.
Photo of Kurt and mother Mariann, on her graduation from college
Photo of Kurt and Mariann, a few years before her deathLinks
The 5 Wishes - https://www.fivewishes.org/
International End of Life Doula Association https://inelda.org/find-a-doula/
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The episode features an engaging interview with Dr. Katherine McLean, a writer and research scientist with expertise in mindfulness meditation and psychedelics. Dr. McLean explores the importance of being open to conversations about death and the potential for living more vibrant lives by embracing our mortality. Drawing on her research at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Dr. McLean highlights the role of psychedelics in helping people facing terminal illnesses come to terms with their death and find peace. She recounts her younger sister's battle with cancer, offering a poignant look at end-of-life care and the potential for finding beauty in life's final moments.
Dr. MacLean's book Midnight Water: A Psychedelic Memoir
She can be found at:
Website: Katherine MacLean, PhDInstagram: katherine.maclean.phd
Facebook: Facebook
X: @thekmacdose
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