Afgespeeld
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Kevin Roose, author of Futureproof, speaks with us about what AI and automation means for the future of humans--and how to speak with teens to prepare them to remain relevant in the information age.
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Full show notes
Our kids are heading into a new era–one full of self driving cars, automated grocery shopping and endless social media. They’re growing up surrounded by technology, and these gizmos and gadgets only become more prevalent every year. It’s nice to imagine a future where robots do all the work and we humans sit back with our feet up–but it’s also scary to imagine a world so controlled by computers that our kids might just lose their humanity!
It’s understandable to be worried about your teen coming of age in this environment. They’re entering a job market where employment opportunities are slowly being eradicated by automation. People like travel agents and bankers have been forced to watch as their jobs are taken by iphone apps and digital kiosks.
Not only that, but the constant digital stimulation of iPhones, laptops and tablets is rearranging teens’ brains on a molecular level, inhibiting their social skills, productivity and sense of reality! It’s frightening how much control technology has over all of us, especially growing teens. So how can we prepare young people for a future full of tech and automation?
Kevin Roose, our guest today, asked himself that same question a few years ago. He decided to dive into research about humanity’s growing dependence on technology, and then put his findings into a book. It’s called Futureproof: 9 Rules for Humans in the Age of Automation. In it, he reveals how the key to surviving in the world of robots is not to become more robotic ourselves but instead, become more human.
In our interview, Kevin and I get into every question you might have about how AI is changing society. We address the concerns you may be having about your kid’s job prospects in this future full of automation and algorithms. He also explains how you can help teens use their phones to learn, create and connect with others instead of just scrolling mindlessly through Tik Tok.
The Skills that Separate Us From Robots
We know that automation is taking away jobs that historically belonged to humans, but surprisingly, most people seem to think their own employment is safe. When surveyed, three quarters of people said they thought that artificial intelligence would cause people to lose work, but only about a quarter thought they were at risk of losing their own job. Kevin believes we are all far too overconfident. In the episode, he explains how AI is capable of all sorts of tasks beyond what we might imagine. Even journalists and artists, he explains, are at risk of losing work to AI.
So how can we prepare kids for this new job market? Some people believe we need to behave more like robots: become more efficient, logical, precise and accurate. But Kevin disagrees. He believes that to stay afloat in this brave new world, we’ll have to dive deeper into the things that make us distinctly human.
When giving young people advice about what to major in to find success in the age of automation, he often tells them it doesn’t matter as much as they think. Kevin expresses how important it is for young adults to actually develop their collaboration and communication skills along with whatever craft they choose to pursue. Their mathematical expertise can easily be met by a computer, but their kindness and empathy cannot. When they find their job taken by AI, their unique human attributes will remain–and these are what will help them find their footing in the job market again.
In our interview, Kevin also introduces the fascinating idea of combinatorial creativity: the ability to take knowledge and experience regarding one subject, and transfer it to another. This allows us to find innovative, outside-the-box solutions to problems. Humans are great at this, while robots are not. That’s why Kevin suggests that teens branch out to multiple interests instead of just specializing in one thing. This versatility allows them to maximize their combinatorial creativity, and use their natural intelligence in a way that AI can’t.
There’s more challenges to growing up in a technology saturated world than fearing unemployment. Kevin and I also talk about why teenage obsession with screen time isn’t the healthiest, and how we can help teens make the most of technology instead of letting it dominate their lives.
Taking Control of our Tech Habits
Every day, Kevin allots sixty minutes for what he calls his “human hour.” For the entire hour, he puts his phone away and goes on a run, reads a book, or does anything else that makes him feel human. Kevin began doing this because he felt his phone was beginning to control him, and he wanted to gain that control back. He even went on a thirty day phone detox, and wrote an article about it. The article was wildly popular, causing Kevin to realize just how many people feel like their devices dictate their life.
Kevin explains that this is not an accident. Companies who create the apps we use put a lot of effort toward making their products addicting. They spend billions of dollars to ensure that we get sucked in and can’t stop using. Kevin describes it as “a supercomputer pointed at your head”....and that’s what it can feel like! It’s frustrating because our devices are supposed to help us be efficient and connect with others, not make us go crazy.
That’s why Kevin suggests that teens (and parents) should schedule some time away from phones to reset. He describes how, after his detox, he was more productive and social. If you can, help teens find time when they can set aside their devices and go for a walk, or play the guitar or talk to a friend. They might resist, but it can be a great way for them to break free from the grip of Netflix and Instagram and get some peace of mind.
We’ll never get kids to really ditch their devices, however, Kevin and I discuss how you can help teens use their phones to be creative, network and learn new things. It’s easy to limit kids’ screen time, but Kevin thinks that’s not enough. We also need to be mindful of how they’re using their devices. Are they just staring mindlessly at the screen, playing endless games of Candy Crush? Or are they socializing with their friends, building websites and reading about current events? In our interview, Kevin points to the difference between passive use and active use, and how teens can use tech as a tool for growth.
In the Episode….
Kevin and I have fascinating discussions in this episode about the intersection between human and artificial intelligence. On top of the topics mentioned above, we cover:
Why we can’t have a “happy symbiosis” with AIHow kids can benefit from phone-free interactionWhy a computer could never teach a kindergarten classWhat Kevin doesn’t like about the phrase “media literacy”Although a future full of tech can feel frightening, there are ways humans can remain relevant! The interview with Kevin was thought-provoking and I think listeners may find themselves thinking about how to raise kids that are future-proof.
Thanks for listening, and don’t forget to share and subscribe. We’ll see you next week!
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Leah Plunkett, author of Sharenthood, joins Andy for a discussion on the consequences and benefits of our teens’ extensive digital footprint. We leave more data behind us than we think--who is using it and for what purposes?
If you've enjoyed Talking to Teens, we'd love if you could leave us a five-star rating, and if you have time, a review!
Full show notes
It’s not always easy to know what to share about your kids online. You might want to celebrate how cute they look in a Winnie the Pooh Halloween costume by posting a picture on Instagram, or share your grievances on Facebook when they just won’t stop wetting the bed. When you decide to snap that pic or type that post however, you might be doing more damage to your kid’s future and reputation than you realize.
Today we’re talking about how, even when parents have the best intentions, they may submit their kids to certain risks by posting information online. So much of your information can be found and used online in ways that can be harmful to your children, ways you might not even expect. Although social media can be a great place to share and socialize with friends and family, extra vigilance about your kid’s internet presence is becoming more and more necessary as it becomes cheaper and easier for companies and individuals to collect your data.
In this episode, we’re sitting down with Leah Plunkett, author of Sharenthood: Why We Should Think Before We Talk about Our Kids Online. Leah serves as a Faculty Affiliate at the Berkman Klein Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University, and is a leading expert on digital privacy and data collection, especially among young folks. Leah’s expertise on digital media, privacy, and adolescence make for an eye-opening interview about how you can guide yourself and your kids towards more responsible, literate use of the online landscape.
Leah and I discuss a broad range of topics, covering everything from why your kids might be affected by your seemingly innocuous Facebook posts, what information is at risk of being collected and exploited from your online activity, and whether or not parents should consider implementing surveillance technology to spy on their teen’s internet behavior.
Why You Should Watch What You Share
As a parent, it can be really rewarding to log on and share what your kids are up to; it gives you the chance to chat with other parents and include your friends and family in your child’s growth! However, there are some things Leah says you might want to be aware of before you hit post...because when something goes online there’s a chance that it can never truly be erased.
For starters, posting a picture of your kid with frosting all over their face and down their shirt might seem pretty cute to you, but could potentially embarrass them down the line. Although this may not seem super obvious when kids are still young, bullies can emerge as your kid reaches adolescence, bullies who might be on the prowl for images and facts about your teen that can be used to humiliate them. Leah suggests taking some time to think about how what you post might come around to bite your kid in the butt in a few years.
There are also some frightening figures online who can use information about your kids for nefarious purposes. By sharing data about a kid’s whereabouts, their likes and dislikes, what they fear or where they hang out, you may be submitting that information to dangerous folks who lurk on the internet. Now, this doesn’t mean you should immediately sound the alarm and remove every trace of your kid’s existence from Facebook, but there are some ways you can moderate your posts to ensure your kid is safe from these internet predators. Leah and I talk more about this in the episode.
The bottom line is that kids are generally too young to consent to being posted about and shared on the web, so Leah says it’s important to take some serious caution about how and where they are portrayed. While you may only have the best intentions, there are always ways your kid’s data could be used to harm them. This goes beyond just cyberbullying or internet predators, with big tech likely collecting huge amounts of data on you and your kids in recent times and using it for all sorts of purposes.
The Dark Truth About Data Collection
You may have heard that companies like Facebook and Google could be collecting some of your data and using it to give you personalized content or targeted ads--but are you aware of just how much data all sorts of companies are gathering about you and your family?
Leah dives into just how much information companies are collecting, and how they’re using it. Surprisingly, companies can collect data from things as seemingly innocent as the learning software that your kids use at school, or games they download and play on their phones. Frustratingly, there is not a cohesive location, method or protocol for people to find out how their data is being used.
By collecting data about kids online tendencies, attitudes, and habits, companies are able to understand how your child thinks and behaves. This information can then be used in decisions about whether to hire them or grant them admission to college when they grow up. There are hiring companies that harness and combine all of this data to know how well an individual will perform as an employee. When faced with a large pool of applicants, businesses can pay to find out who is the best candidate for the job, and who can be disqualified.
Although this might worry you, don’t fret. Leah and I discuss possible solutions to this issue in the episode, talking about specific ways companies can become more accountable in the future for the spread of your data. You might also be wondering, however, how you can talk to your teen about all this, and if you should step in to monitor their online activity. Luckily, Leah’s got some answers for you.
Why Surveilling Your Child Might Not Be The Answer
When you become aware of just how much data about your kid is up for collection, it can be tempting to install software that controls what media your kid engages with and how much time they spend browsing the web. However, Leah recommends refraining from doing so, as this teaches them a damaging lesson--that surveillance is a natural part of interacting with the online space.
Instead, Leah suggests having open and value-based discussions with them about media literacy and their media usage. Although you might feel nervous or unsure about how to approach them about these ideas, Leash stresses how essential these talks can be. She and I chat more in the episode about specific ways you can initiate this kind of discussion and methods you can use to guide your teen away from potentially risky internet behavior.
According to Leah, the important thing is making sure your kids have the agency and the ability to make their own judgments about what’s safe and what’s not. When it comes down to it, that’s what matters most about helping keep our kids safe online. We want them to grow up independent and free to follow their chosen path in life, without data collection or negative online forces getting in the way. By making sure our kids can protect themselves, we give them the gift of a safe future.
In the Episode…
It was very eye-opening to chat with Leah this week about the many dangers kids face online. On top of the topics mentioned above, we talk about:
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