Afleveringen
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Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. The conversation opens on time scarcity, the devaluation of future time, and whether hope is actually a strategy. From there they discuss how great leaders don't need all the right answers (just the right questions) and the difference between executive presence and pocket presence. While digging into how the five C's of delegation build the situational awareness and critical thinking that pocket presence requires, Adam has a breakthrough realization that pocket presence isn't just an individual skill, it's a collective capability. Executive presence, they agree, is "party of one."
Resource Slack and Propensity to Discount Delayed Investments of Time Versus Money – Gal Zauberman, 2004, Journal of Experimental Psychology
Time for Happiness – Ashley Whillans, 2019, Harvard Business Review
Can We Afford to be Time Poor? The Hidden Tax of Time Poverty – Celestine Rosales, 2024, The Decision Lab
The Will and the Ways – C. R. Snyder, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
Hope Theory: Rainbows in the Mind – C. R. Snyder, 2002, Psychological Inquiry
Golden Eggs and Hyperbolic Discounting – David Laibson, 1997, The Quarterly Journal of Economics
Some Empirical Evidence on Dynamic Inconsistency – Richard Thaler, 1981, Economics Letters
Future Self-Continuity: How Conceptions of the Future Self Transform Intertemporal Choice – Hal Hershfield, 2011, Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences
The stranger within: Connecting with our future selves – Cynthia Lee
April 9, 2015, UCLA Newsroom
We normally think of a weakness as a strength you lack, but it can also be a strength you overuse – Adam Grant, July 10, 2018, LinkedIn
Stop Overdoing Your Strengths – Robert Kaplan, 2009, Harvard Business Review
Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House
Research: Vague Feedback Is Holding Women Back – Shelley Correll, 2016, Harvard Business Review
The New Rules of Executive Presence – Sylvia Ann Hewlett, 2024, Harvard Business Review
Pocket Presence (Video) – Emmanuel Acho, n.d., TikTok
Metacognition and Cognitive Monitoring: A New Area of Cognitive-Developmental Inquiry – Flavell, 1979, American Psychologist
Essential social work theories & models – Syracuse University, n.d., OnlineGrad@Syracuse
The 5 Cs of strategic thinking, decision making, and delegating – Brené Brown, n.d., brenebrown.com
Atomic Habits – James Clear, 2018, Avery
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Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. They dig into the Buddhist concept of near and far enemies- and why the biggest threat to your values isn't the opposite of them, it's what masquerades as them. From there they move into discussion around the value of paradoxical thinking, why some tensions aren't meant to be resolved, and why sports are leadership theater. Plus a conversation about why future time is always undervalued.
Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House
The Near Enemies of the Heart – Jack Kornfield, n.d., jackkornfield.com
Almost Everything: Notes on Hope – Anne Lamott, 2018, Riverhead Books (Chapter 2: “Inside Job”)
12 truths I learned from life and writing – Anne Lamott, July 13, 2017, TED (Video)
Anne Lamott's thoughts on love, writing, and being judgy – Adam Grant (Host), April 16, 2024, ReThinking with Adam Grant, TED Audio Collective
Genius of the AND – Jim Collins, n.d., jimcollins.com
Exploration and Exploitation in Organizational Learning – James G. March, 1991, Organization Science
Putting Feelings Into Words – Lieberman et al., 2007, Psychological Science
How to Tame Reactive Emotions by Naming Them – Mitch Abblett, 2022, Psychology Today
Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule – Paul Graham, 2009, paulgraham.com
The Tush Push Explained – Kyle Brandt & Dr Neil DeGrasse Tyson, 2024, NFL (Video)
Togethxr’s ‘Everyone Watches Women’s Sports’ T-shirts go viral – Callie Holtermann, June 28, 2024. The New York Times
Dr. Linda Hill on leading with purpose in the digital age – Brené Brown (Host), April 18, 2022, In Dare to Lead, Vox Media
The Pre-Mortem Method – Gary Klein, 2021, Psychology Today
Golden Eggs and Hyperbolic Discounting – David Laibson, 1997, Quarterly Journal of Economics (PDF)
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Zijn er afleveringen die ontbreken?
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In this Re:Thinking podcast episode recorded at Authors@Wharton, Brené joined Adam to dig into her book, Strong Ground. They explore why courage now has to mean being a learner instead of a knower, and why values aren't just what you care about-- they're what you sacrifice for. The conversation moves through the four skill sets of courage, why a value that isn't operationalized into behavior is just a poster with an eagle on it, and how to use the "story I'm making up" framework for hard conversations. They also get into executive presence, vulnerability, care, and why fake courage is easy to spot.
Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House
Research – Brené Brown (n.d.).
The discovery of grounded theory – Glaser & Strauss, 1967, Aldine
Awareness of dying – Glaser & Strauss, 1965, Aldine
De-tabooing dying control – Thulesius et al., 2013, BMC Palliative Care
Never Split The Difference – Chris Voss, May 24, 2016, TEDx University of Nevada
Expectancy Theory (Victor Vroom) – The Decision Lab, (n.d.)
Dare to lead: List of values – Brené Brown, 2018
Dare to Lead Hub – Brené Brown
Brené Brown brings Dare to Lead program to UT – University of Texas at Austin, 2020, UT News
Neural processing of narratives – Jääskeläinen et al., 2020, Frontiers in Human Neuroscience
The New Rules of Executive Presence – Sylvia Ann Hewlett, Jan-Feb 2024, Harvard Business Review
The Gifts of Imperfection - Your Guide to a Wholehearted Life: 10th Anniversary Collection – Brené Brown, 2010
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In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant sit down with their first-ever guest, Simon Sinek. Together, they explore the state of organizations globally, including the chaos hitting C-suites, the human cost of misaligned incentives, AI-driven layoffs, and leaders playing defense when they should be playing offense. They dig into what makes teams high-performing, why caring deeply about the people you lead isn't soft but essential, and what the military's culture of love and loyalty teaches us about business. The conversation also moves through nervous system regulation, shame and guilt in parenting and leadership, and what AI can or cannot replace about human connection. This episode is a reminder that the things we've been told to leave out of business, such as love, care, and human connection, may be the most important things we can bring to it.
The Old Order Is Dead. Do Not Resuscitate — Sven Beckert, November 4, 2025, The New York Times
A Friedman Doctrine — Milton Friedman, September 13, 1970, The New York Times Magazine
The Man Who Broke Capitalism: How Jack Welch Gutted the Heartland and Crushed the Soul of Corporate America—and How to Undo His Legacy — David Gelles, 2022, Simon & Schuster
‘Take a simple idea and take it seriously’: Charlie Munger in his own words — Financial Times
Jack Dorsey Blamed AI for 4,000 Layoffs. A Former Block Exec Says That’s Not the Real Story — Leila Sheridan, 2026, Inc.
Brené Brown on values, vulnerability, and playing to win — Adam Grant, December 22, 2025, Knowledge at Wharton (Interview)
Threat-Rigidity Effects in Organizational Behavior: A Multilevel Analysis — Barry M. Staw, 1981, Administrative Science Quarterly
Finding our strong ground, part 1 of 6 [w guest Adam Grant] — Brené Brown, September 17, 2025, In Dare to Lead. Vox Media Podcast Network
Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action — Simon Sinek, 2009, Portfolio/Penguin
The mental game of tennis: A scoping review and the introduction of the Resilience Racket Model — Konstantinou, G et al., 2025, Sports
The Inner Game of Tennis — W. Timothy Gallwey, 1974, Random House
Suppose We Took Groups Seriously… — Harold J. Leavitt, 1975, in Man and Work in Society
Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don’t — Simon Sinek, 2014, Portfolio/Penguin
Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts — Brené Brown, 2018, Random House
The Fifth Discipline: The Art and Practice of the Learning Organization — Peter M. Senge, 1990, Doubleday/Currency
Developing Brave Leaders and Courageous Cultures — Brené Brown, Dare to Lead hub
The Infinite Game — Simon Sinek, 2019, Portfolio/Penguin
Brené Brown: Focus on guilt instead of shame — 60 Minutes, March 29, 2020, YouTube
Children’s Proneness to Shame and Guilt Predict Risky and Illegal Behaviors in Young Adulthood — Jeffrey Stuewig (lead), 2015, Child Psychiatry and Human Development
The Altruistic Personality: Rescuers of Jews in Nazi Europe — Samuel P. Oliner & Pearl M. Oliner, 1988, Free Press
The Toxic Handler: Organizational Hero—and Casualty — Frost & Robinson, 1999, Harvard Business Review
Jensen Huang Says an Incorrect Nine-Year-Old Prediction About AI Shows Why It Won’t Destroy Jobs — CNBC, 2025, CNBC
Relational Job Design and the Motivation to Make a Prosocial Difference — Adam M. Grant, 2007, Academy of Management Review
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In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, BrenĂ© Brown and Adam Grant use this yearâs booed commencement speeches as a launching pad to explore the role of AI in our lives. They dig into what some of those commencement addresses were missing: moral imagination, emotional honesty, and real empathy for the graduates. BrenĂ© introduces the concept of being âsmitten with whatâs written,â the trap of polished AI output that looks good but fails to move anything forward, and unpacks why writing is a tool for thinking, not just communicating. Adam proposes that signing your name on AI-generated content is an integrity violation, and together they work through how to give feedback, set expectations, and stay human in the middle of a technological transformation. Show Notes:George Saunders Reflects on his Famous Convocation Address at Syracuse University (2013) - George Saunders, 2023, Syracuse University College of Arts and SciencesValues and Messages Conveyed in College Commencement Speeches - Jenifer Partch & Richard Kinnier, 2011, Current PsychologyDonât Be Afraid to Fall - BrenĂ© Brown, 2020 University of Texas at Austin (Commencement Address)Make Your Bed â Admiral William H. McRaven, 2014 University of Texas at Austin (Commencement Address)Through Disappointment You Can Gain Clarity - Conan O'Brien, 2011, Dartmouth College (Commencement Address )Be True to Yourself - Ellen DeGeneres, 2009 Tulane University (Commencement Address))The Importance of Kindness - Steve Carell, 2025 Northwestern University (Commencement Address)Make Failure Your Fuel - Abby Wambach, 2018 Barnard College (Commencement Address)Wolfpack: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game â Abby Wambach, 2019, Celadon Books 2026 graduates boo commencement speeches on AI - Eric Schmidt (Former Google CEO) University of Arizona; Gloria Caulfield (Real estate executive) University of Central Florida: Scott Borchetta (Big Machine Records CEO) Middle Tennessee State University, May 2026, PBS NewsHourExploring the Paradoxes of Human Nature: The Stockdale Paradox Explained, BrenĂ© Brown and Adam Grant, May 28, 2026, The Curiosity Shop with BrenĂ© Brown and Adam GrantStrong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - BrenĂ© Brown, 2025, Random HouseA Whole New Mind â Daniel Pink, 2005, Riverhead Books (source of 'Symphony')AI-Generated âWorkslopâ Is Destroying Productivity â Kate Niederhoffer et al. (BetterUp Labs & Stanford Social Media Lab), 2025, Harvard Business ReviewThe Biggest Tell That Something Was Written by AI â Eve Fairbanks, 2026, The AtlanticQuote Origin: I Do Not Know What I Think Until I Read What Iâm Writing - Quoteresearch, 2023, Quote Investigator Dare to lead glossary: Key language, skills, tools, and practices (including âPaint Doneâ) - BrenĂ© Brown, Pilots and Passengers â BetterUp Labs & Stanford Social Media Lab 2025, BetterUpThe Ghost in the Machineâs Memory: A Teacherâs Lament - Hudson Mathew, 2026, AI & Society (A Socrates warning, voiced by Plato)The Enhanced Games â inaugural event May 24, 2026, Las Vegas (founder Aron D'Souza; doping-permitted competition)Atlas of AI â Kate Crawford, 2021, Yale University PressLearn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant explore what happens when trust, vulnerability, grief, and performance collide. Using insights from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich's leadership philosophy, they examine why caring deeply is an act of courage, how shame quietly undermines teams, families, and organizations, and how psychological safety fuels excellence. The conversation moves through ambition and rejection, miscarriage and loss, community, emotional intelligence and empathy, and the ways people show up for one another through life's hardest moments. This episode explores how strength and kindness are not opposites and why building cultures of trust may be one of the most important things we do.
Victor Wembanyama on having Spurs legend David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the building - 2026, Yahoo Sports
Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 1 of 2 -
Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast)
Victor Wembanyama Emotional After Spurs Advance to the NBA Finals - 2026, Bleacher Report
Goals research summary - Gail Matthews, 2015, Dominican University of California
Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, Gotham Books
Ring Theory Helps Us Bring Comfort In
- Elena Sandler, 2025, Psychology Today
Atlas of the Heart - Brené Brown, 2021 (Book)
U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy & Adam Grant on Loneliness - Murthy & Grant, Authors@Wharton, 2024, YouTube
âAndrew Garfield on grief and the loss of his mother – CBS, 2021, The Late Show with Stephen Colbertâ
National Survey of Gun Policy - Center for Gun Violence Solutions, 2025, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Empathic Joy and the Empathy-Altruism Hypothesis - Batson et al, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1992-05357-001
Human empathy through the lens of social neuroscience - Decety & Lamm, 2006, The Scientific World Journal
âThe Making of an Americanâ – Jacob Riis, 1901, Macmillan
âThe Coach–Athlete Relationship Questionnaire (CART-Q)â – Sophia Jowett, 2004, Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports
âBad Is Stronger Than Goodâ – Roy Baumeister, 2001, Review of General Psychology
âScarred for the Rest of My Career?â – Erica Carleton (with Julian Barling), 2016, Journal of Sport and Exercise Psychology
The evolution of shame and its display -
Landers & Sznycer, 2022,
Evolutionary human sciences
âMoral Emotions and Moral Behaviorâ – June Tangney, 2007, Annual Review of Psychology
The Inside Story of the Ever-Changing Brain - Brené Brown and David Eagleman, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast
Unlocking the Mysteries of our Brain - Chris Anderson with David Eagleman, 2022, The TED Interview
Winning coaches’ locker room secret - Blanding on the research of Barry Staw, 2019, UC Berkeley Haas School of Business
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In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant unpack the paradoxes that shape our lives, relationships, leadership, and decision-making. They explore the Abilene Paradox, the Stockdale Paradox, why groups often make decisions nobody actually wants, and how people balance gritty facts with gritty faith. The conversation moves through spirituality, teamwork, family dynamics, optimism, creativity, and even unexpected debates about Twilight and Pitch Perfect. Funny, thoughtful, and deeply human, this episode examines why two opposite truths can exist at the same time and why learning to live inside that tension may be one of the most important skills we have.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on â YouTubeâ and â Instagramâ (@thecuriosityshop).
00:00 Intro: Paradoxes, Dad Jokes & Big Questions
04:20 What Is a Paradox?
10:15 The Grace Paradox
19:02 The Abilene Paradox
27:04 How to Avoid the Abilene Paradox
30:45 Guilty Pleasures: Twilight, Pitch Perfect & Eurovision
38:38 Aesthetic Chills & The Big Five
43:08 The Stockdale Paradox Explained
46:48 Gritty Facts vs. Gritty Faith
49:47 Why Leaders Need Paradoxical Thinking
51:04 MLK’s “I Have a Dream” Speech
55:39 Candor Over Consensus
57:32 Comfort vs. Courage
1:02:06 Jim Collins & The Genius of the And
1:06:48 Harvard's Anti-Grade Inflation Policy
1:09:21 How Brené Grades Group Projects
1:13:19 Building the Muscle to Hold Paradox
1:14:54 Personal Paradoxes & The Grace of Getting It Wrong
Lump - Allison Sweet Grant, September 2026, Little, Brown and Co. (Forthcoming book)
Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems - Smith & Lewis, 2022, Harvard Business Review Press (Book)
Toward A Theory of Paradox: A Dynamic Equilibrium Model of Organizing - Smith & Lewis, 2011, Academy of Management Review
Vibe: The Secrets of Strong Connections in a Lonely World - Adam Grant, October 2026, Vking (Forthcoming book)
Holding the Tension, The Wisdom of Paradox - Adapted, 2024, from Richard Rohr, The Naked Now: Learning to See as the Mystics See, 2009, Center for Action and Contemplation,
Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House
SmartLess (Guest: Stephen Colbert) - Arnett, Bateman & Hayes, SiriusXM/Wondery (Podcast)
The Abilene Paradox: The Management of Agreement - Harvey, 1974, Organizational Dynamics
Eurovision Song-Along: Story of Fire Saga: "Song-Along" - Dobking, D. (Director), 2020, Netflix (Movie clip)
Grease: "You're The One That I Want" - Kleiser, R. (Director) 1978, Paramount Pictures (Movie clip)
Brain Connectivity Reflects Human Aesthetic Responses to Music - Sachs, Ellis, Schlaug & Loui, 2016, Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience
Aesthetic Chills as a Universal Marker of Openness to Experience - McCrae, 2007, Motivation and Emotion
The Stockdale Paradox - Jim Collins, 2017, jimcollins.com
Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't - Jim Collins, 2001, HarperBusiness (Book)
Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts - Brené Brown, 2018, Random House (Book)
The Discovery of Grounded Theory: Strategies for Qualitative Research - Barney Glaser and Anselm Strauss, 1967, Aldine (Book)
It's 2020, Stop Saying 'Negative Nancy' - Sexist colloquialisms to avoid - Eskreis-Winkler, 2020, An Injustice! (Magazine)
https://www.feministlawprofessors.com/2008/07/nervous-nellie-was-not-a-woman/
The Will and the Ways: Development and Validation of an Individual-Differences Measure of Hope - Snyder et al., 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
An analysis of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's "I Have a Dream" public speech - Duarte, 2011
BE 2.0 (Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0): Turning Your Business into an Enduring Great Company - Collins and Lazier, 2020, Portfolio/Penguin (Book)
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Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great!
You can find The Curiosity Shop on â YouTubeâ and â Instagramâ (@thecuriosityshop).
0:00 - What Are We Talking About Today?
5:00 - Sober AF: Celebrating 30 Years of Sobriety
16:30 - Grieving for Joy
28:22 - Why Can’t Brené Watch The Office?
43:18 - Loving or Hating Violating the Rules
49:30 - The Art of Leaving Conversations Respectfully
1:03:40 - The Shortcut to a Graceful Exit
1:08:39 - What Adam and Brené Are Watching Now
Gottman Institute - Research and History - Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996)
The Love Prescription, Part 2 of 3 - Brene Brown with Drs John and Julie Gottman, 2022, Unlocking Us Podcast
The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk, TEDxHouston
Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong - Johann Hari, 2015, TED Talk, TEDGlobalLondon
The Fresh Start Effect: Temporal Landmarks Motivate Aspirational Behavior - Dai, Milkman & Riis, 2014, Management Science
Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, book, Gotham Books
I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952, CBS
The Office: Scott's Tots - B.J. Novak, 2009, NBC
Benign Violations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny - McGraw & Warren, 2010, Psychological Science
Office Ladies - Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present, Audacy (Podcast)
Do Conversations End When People Want Them To? - Mastroianni et al., 2021, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
Politeness: Some Universals in Language Usage - Brown & Levinson, 1987, Cambridge University Press (Book)
Want to Improve Your Relationship? Start Paying More Attention to Bids - Logan Ury, 2026, Gottman Institute
The Virtues of Gossip: Reputational Information Sharing as Prosocial Behavior - Feinberg, Willer, Stellar & Keltner, 2012, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
Jury Duty - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)
Jury Duty Presents: Company Retreat - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)
The Madison - 2026, Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series)
Landman - Sheridan, 2024-present, Paramount+ (Television Series)
Opening Up Closings - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica
Closing the Conversation: Evidence from the Academic Advising Session - Hartford & Bardovi-Harlig, 1992, Discourse Processes
Collaborative Strategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings - Sun, 2005, Pragmatics
Ending Social Encounters - Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology
Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order - Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book)
Sorry for Your Kindness: Japanese Interactional Ritual in Public Discourse - Ide, 1998, Journal of Pragmatics
Getting Down to Business: Talk, Gaze, and Body Orientation During Openings of Doctor-Patient Consultations - Robinson, 1998, Human Communication Research
Negotiating Last-Minute Concerns in Closing Korean Medical Encounters - Park, 2013, Social Science & Medicine
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Do you find yourself defaulting to “Preacher” mode when you’re under pressure, or starting to act like a “Prosecutor” when someone challenges your ideas? Brené and Adam unpack four mental modes – Preacher, Prosecutor, Politician, and Scientist – to explore why we often cling to being right rather than getting it right. In this episode, they discuss how these defensive stances are shaping our response to AI, Brené’s “bounce” method for emotional hypothesis-testing, Adam’s go-to “strategy of small losses,” and ways to stay curious when the stakes are high.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on â YouTubeâ and â Instagramâ (@thecuriosityshop).
0:00 - Introduction and Emoting
3:00 - Thinking Under Thread
11:00 - Testing Your Gut with Small Experiments
22:30 - The Integrity of Commitment: The Making of This Podcast
27:15 - Four Thinking Modes: Scientist, Preacher, Prosecutor, Politician
33:57 - When Opinions Become Beliefs
42:48 - The Social Costs of Changing Our Minds
51:30 - A Missing Mental Model: Teacher
59:30 - Wrap up
Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know - Adam Grant, 2021, Book
Eric Ries on ‘The Lean Startup’ - Eric Ries, 2011, Knowledge at Wharton
Learning Through Failure: The Strategy of Small Losses - Sitkin, 1992, Research in Organizational Behavior
Affective Forecasting - Wilson & Gilbert, 2003, Advances in Experimental Social Psychology
Atlas of the Heart - Brené Brown, 2021 (Book)
The Science of the Deal - Adam Grant, WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast
The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2011, TED
The Surprising Habits of Original Thinkers - Adam Grant, 2016, TED
Beliefs Are Like Possessions - Abelson, 2007, Journal for the Theory of Social Behaviour
We Need to Talk about Astrology - Adam Grant, 2024, Substack
The Diplomat - Cahn et al., 2023-present, Let's Not Turn This Into a Whole Big Production & Well Red, Netflix (TV series)
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Brené and Adam discuss the power — and peril — of the words we choose. They dive into two Machiavellian communication tools that often do more harm than good: the "Invisible Army" and "BS Disclaimers". Brené explains why leading with “we” or “but” often comes across as requesting permission to escape accountability, which ultimately sacrifices trust more than anything. Adam explores how these tools can sometimes serve as survival strategies in toxic cultures, leading to a conversation on psychological safety, groupthink, and why precision of language is more important than ever — especially in a world that still judges based on gender and identity.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on â YouTubeâ and â Instagramâ (@thecuriosityshop).
0:00 - Introduction
1:10 - The Invisible Army
15:23 - Speaking Up and Pluribus
21:26 - ‘But’ or Escaping Accountability?
40:59 - Responsibility Versus Accountability
46:22 - Judgment Based on Gender and Identity
1:01:55 - Takeaways From Today’s Episode
Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 2 of 2 - Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast)
Getting credit for proactive behavior: Supervisor reactions depend on what you value and how you feel - Grant et al., 2009, Personnel Psychology
Plur1bus - Gilligan et al., 2025 - Present, Sony Pictures; Apple TV+ (TV series)
Does Performance Improve Following Multisource Feedback? A Theoretical Model, Meta-Analysis, and Review of Empirical Findings - Smither et al., 2005, Personnel Psychology
Feedback effectiveness: Can 360-degree appraisals be improved? - DeNisi et al., 2000, Academy of Management Perspectives
What Makes a 360-Degree Review Successful? -
Zenger and Folkman, 2020, Harvard Business Review
The bullshit asymmetry [sic]: the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger - Brandolini, A., 2013, Twitter
The power of powerless speech: The effects of speech style and task interdependence on status conferral - Fragale, 2006, Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes
How Can Women Escape the Compensation Negotiation Dilemma? Relational Accounts Are One Answer - Bowles et al., 2013, Psychology of Women Quarterly
Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve - Fragale, 2024, Doubleday
Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House
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In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant dive into the returnâtoâoffice debate and argue that most conversations are stuck at the wrong level. Instead of asking “How many days in the office?”, they ask, “What problem are you actually trying to solve?”
They explore evidence on hybrid work, weakâtie innovation, culture and belonging, and why some leaders still cling to “butts in seats” as a proxy for performance. Along the way, they introduce a systemsâthinking “iceberg” tool for getting below the surface of policy fights to the patterns, structures, and mental models driving them.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on â YouTubeâ and â Instagramâ (@thecuriosityshop).
0:00 - What’s Surprising Us About This Podcast?
1:49 - Return to Office
22:06 - Challenging Your Return to Office Mental Model
34:15 - Birth Order
40:18 - Tradeoff Between Authenticity and Editing
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/peps.12641
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/worklife-with-adam-grant-the-dos-and-donts/id1346314086?i=1000565464077
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/workplace/the-real-meaning-of-freedom-at-work-11633704877
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/381373698_Hybrid_working_from_home_improves_retention_without_damaging_performance
https://hbr.org/2014/01/to-raise-productivity-let-more-employees-work-from-home
https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/seven-truths-about-hybrid-work-and-productivity/
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-effects-of-remote-work-on-collaboration-among-Yang-Jaffe/bff6dabad6d264c0f34678a788e20df1b015656d
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2041386614564105
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44605966_The_Strength-of-Weak-Ties_Perspective_on_Creativity_A_Comprehensive_Examination_and_Extension
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jure/pub/papers/granovetter73ties.pdf
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1802407115
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361135288_Remote_Collaboration_Fuses_Fewer_Breakthrough_Ideas
https://oms-www.files.svdcdn.com/production/downloads/academic/Disrupting-Science-Upload-2022-4.pdf
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4675401
https://www.atlassian.com/blog/distributed-work/intentional-togetherness-research
https://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/
https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/coming-to-a-new-awareness-of-organizational-culture/
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/10720537.2026.2613112?needAccess=true
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1956-04524-000
https://www.nber.org/papers/w30866
https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1506451112
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From classrooms and locker rooms to workplaces and social media, Adam and Brené trace how shame and humiliation are used to control behavior and even fuel violence. They explore what causes shame, why our self-protective responses backfire, and how we can handle it more effectively. They also unpack the messy overlap between imposter syndrome and cultural pressures toward self-doubt.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on â YouTubeâ and â Instagramâ (@thecuriosityshop).
Chapter Titles + Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction
2:10 - The One, Two, Threes of Shame
8:52 - The New Research on Humiliation
14:04 - What Is Humiliation?
18:30 - Why Don’t People Outgrow Shame?
29:09 - How to Help People Out of Shame?
38:05 - Reconnecting Your Prefrontal Cortex Post-Shame
42:55 - How Does Shame Relate to Imposter Syndrome?
50:10 - Biggest Takeaways About Shame, Guilt, Humiliation, and Embarrassment
Why Feelings of Guilt May Signal Leadership Potential - Marina Krakovsky, 2012, Insights by Stanford Business (Introducing the work of Schaumberg)
Unwanted identities: A key variable in shame-anger links and gender differences in shame - Ferguson et al., Sex Roles
Humiliation: Causes, correlates, and consequences - Elison & Harter, 2007, from The selfâconscious emotions: Theory and research
Healing Humiliation: From Reaction to Creative Action - Hartling & Linder, 2016, Journal of Counseling & Development Shame and Humiliation: From Isolation to Relational Transformation - Hartling et al., Stone Center for Developmental Services and Studies
Strengthening resilience in a risky world: It’s all about relationships - Hartling, 2003, Women & Therapy
Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome - Ruchika Tulshyan & Jodi-Ann Burey, 2021, Harvard Business Review
How imposter syndrome can be your superpower - MIT Sloan Office Of Communications, 2025 (Introducing the work of Basima Tewfik)
Unmasking the Impostor - MIT Sloan Office of Communications, 2025 (Tewfik, Debunking 4 myths)
Listening to shame, Brené Brown, 2012, TED
The Power of Vulnerability, Brené Brown, 2011, TED
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Today's episode is about learning to sit with uncertainty. The episode opens with a discussion of listener questions on how to handle risk, the ingredients of a great apology, and why people stay loyal to relationships and organizations that quietly drain them. Then Brené and Adam turn to uncertainty – how our brains are wired for a threat response, what intolerance of uncertainty actually is, and why it can drive people toward authoritarian leaders.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on â YouTubeâ and â Instagramâ (@thecuriosityshop).
0:00 - Introduction and Guest Questions
3:20 - Is Risk Something to Review or Reveal
13:40 - Why do People Stay Loyal to Bad Relationships?
22:28 - Strategies for Apologizing and Repair
32:33 - Is Uncertainty a Strength or Deficit for Leaders?
40:15 - Intolerance for Uncertainty
52:00 - Terror Management Theory and our Response to Uncertainty
59:50 - How Can We Manage Uncertainty
1:05:00 - Closing
Show Notes:
Capabilities, Cognition and Inertia: Evidence from Digital Imaging - Tripsas and Gavetti, 2000, Harvard Business School (Polaroid Study)
The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth - Amy Edmondson, 2019, Book
Is it Safe to Speak Up at Work? - Adam Grant and Amy Edmonson, July 2021, Worklife with Adam Grant Podcast
Anchored, Aligned, Accountable: A Framework for Transcending Bullsh*t and Transforming Our Lives and Work (Foreword by Brené Brown) - Aiko Bethea, 2026, Book
Predicting Exit Voice Loyalty and Neglect - Withey and Cooper, 1989, Administrative Science Quarterly
Exit, Voice, and Loyalty: Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States - Albert Hirschman,1970, Book
The Decision Lab: System Justification Theory
The Secrets of a Great Apology - Adam Grant and Beth Polin, 2025, WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast
The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships - Harriet Lerner, 2025, Book
I’m Sorry: How to Apologize and Why It Matters, Part 1 of 2 - Brené Brown and Harriet Lerner, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast
Conclave - Robert Harris, 2016, Book
A Comprehensive Analysis of COVID-19 Misinformation, Public Health Impacts, and Communication Strategies: Scoping Review - Kisa, 2024, Journal of Medical Internet Research
Into the Unknown: A Review and Synthesis of Contemporary Models Involving Uncertainty - Carleton, 2016, Journal of Anxiety Disorders
Conceptual Models of Generalized Anxiety Disorder - Fisher and Wells, 2011, Psychiatric Annals
The Other Side of Change: Who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans - Maya Shankar, 2026, Book
Aftereffects of Stress on Human Performance and Social Behavior: A Review of Research and Theory - Cohen (Includes the work of Glass and Singer), 1980, Carnegie Mellon Research University
Hofstede's Cultural Dimensions on Uncertainty Avoidance
Compensatory Conviction in the Face of Personal Uncertainty: Going to Extremes and Being Oneself - Mcgregor et al., 2001, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
Are Needs to Manage Uncertainty and Threat Associated With Political Conservatism or Ideological Extremity? - Jost et al, 2007, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin
The Causes and Consequences of a Need For Self-esteem: A Terror Management Theory - Greenberg, Pyszczynski, & Solomon, 1986, Book chapter
Foolproof: Why We Fall for Misinformation and How to Build Immuninity - Sander van der Linden, 2023, Book
Utterly Humbled by Mystery - Richard Rohr, 2006, NPR Morning Edition
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What happens when your confidence outruns your competence? Brené and Adam start with freestyle skiing champ Eileen Gu’s extraordinary Olympic press conference and use it to explore metacognition—how to notice your thinking, question it, and change it on purpose. They dig into the Dunning–Kruger effect, calibration, journaling, and feedback, discuss why we’re so bad at estimating timelines, and consider how “I’ve got this” energy can quietly wreck projects, relationships, and learning. From pickleball and ping pong to therapy and team meetings, this episode is about building the inner game of better thinking without losing your nerve along the way.
You can find the Curiosity Shop on YouTubeâ and Instagramâ (@thecuriosityshop).
Chapters:
0:00 - Introductions
3:45 - Eileen Gu’s Metacognition
12:22 - What is Metacognition?
25:10 - What is Dunning-Kruger?
38:14 - Time Estimation and The Planning Fallacy
44:36 - Metacognition and Dunning-Kruger Final Thoughts
58:17 - Wrap up
Shownotes:
I hate minimalism - Hank Green, TikTok
Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Book
Metacognition and Cognitive Monitoring: A New Area of Cognitive-Developmental Inquiry - Flavell, 1979
Explaining the Dunning-Kruger effect and overcoming overconfidence with David Dunning - Adam Grant, 2024, Worklife with Adam Grant
Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know - Adam Grant, 2021, Book
Intuitive Prediction: Biases and Corrective Procedures - Kahneman & Tversky, 1979, Office of Naval Research
Daniel Kahneman Doesn't Trust Your Intuition - Adam Grant, 2023, Re:Thinking with Adam Grant
The Story Rumble Process: A Guide for Groups and Teams - Brené Brown, Dare to Lead, 2018
The learning benefits of teaching: A retrieval practice hypothesis - Koh, 2018
Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things - Adam Grant, 2023, Book
Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments - Kruger & Dunning, 1999, Cornell University
The Inner Game of Tennis - The Classic Guide to the Mental Side of Peak Performance - Timothy Gallwey, 1974, Book
Charlotte Harpur and Eileen Gu, Final Press Conference, 2026 Winter Olympics, Milano, Italy.
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This week, Brené and Adam are live at SXSW! They explore why so many people are vulnerable to narcissistic leaders. The conversation covers the conditions that breed narcissistic leadership, the roles of shame and fear, and how to survive a narcissistic boss, and what it means to lead with mission over ego.
You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop).
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
3:14 - Why People Are Vulnerable to Narcissistic Leaders
12:21 - Shame-Based Fear
18:04 - Do We Think About Emotions Wrong?
19:21 - Undue Credit and the Narcissistic Leader
26:00 - Mission Over Ego
29:52 - How to Manage a Narcissistic Boss
39:18 - Anxiety as a Path to Narcissism
47:45 - Judging Impairs Judgement
1:02:20 - Closing
Show Notes:
Adam Grant, Why We Fall for Narcissistic Leaders, Starting in Grade School, NYT 2025.
O'Reilly et al. 2001 When 'Me' Trumps 'We': Narcissistic Leaders and the Cultures They Create, 2021.
Brené Brown, "Shame shields" in The Dare to Lead Glossary: Key Language skills, tools, and practices. (pg. 15-16)
Bagozzi et al. 2003 (A study on cross-cultural differences in reaction to shame)
Brené Brown, Dan Pink on The Power of Regret, Dare to Lead, 2022
We're The Millers (Trailer) 2013, Awkward Roadtrip Moments: No Ragrets
George Saunders, "Failures of Kindness", Convocation Speech, 2013
Emily Grijalva et al. 2020 (A study of the impact of narcissim on NBA team performance)
How Brené Brown and Lumen CEO Kate Johnson Sparked This Telecom Comeback, WSJ Leadership Institute, 2025 (11:25)
Adam Grant, Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT
My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown LinkedIn 2016
Watts et al, 2014 (A study of grandiose narcissism and vulnerable narcissism in U.S. Presidents)
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Brené and Adam have a bracingly honest conversation about what could go wrong in their collaboration, and how to set new teams, partnerships, and friendships up for success. They discuss the science of avoiding failure and building alignment, and practical strategies for navigating differences—including their own clashing instincts around minimalism vs. maximalism and sarcasm vs. trashtalk. The episode closes with what each of them is listening to, watching, and reading right now.
You can also find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop).
Chapters:
00:00 - How Brené Inadvertently Launched Adam into Podcasting
02:57 - Interpreting Sarcasm
16:08 - How to Prevent Failure
28:57 - How Could This Partnership Could Go Wrong
38:42 - Learning From Differences
52:05 - How to Align Teams
1:02:00 - Closing Questions
Show Notes:
Brené and Adam on What They Will Never Agree On - The Curiosity Shop Episode 1
Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT Op-Ed
My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown 2016 LinkedIn
How to Love Criticism - Adam Grant 2018 WorkLife with Adam Grant
Adam Grant on The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know - Brené Brown and Adam Grant 2021 Dare To Lead Podcast
Brené Brown on What Vulnerability Isn’t - Adam Grant and Brené Brown 2023 Re: Thinking Ted Audio Collective
Hypervigilance in Mary Poppins (1964)
The art and science of trash talk with Rafi Kohan - Adam Grant 2024 Work Life With Adam Grant
Performing a Project Premortem - Gary Klein 2007 HBR
Evaluating the Effectiveness of the PreMortem Technique on Plan Confidence - Veinot, Klein, & Wiggins 2010 ISCRAM Conference
The Economics of Gender Differences in Employment Outcomes in Academia - Donna Ginther 2006 National Library of Medicine
Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System - Donnella Meadows 1999 The Donella Meadows Project Academy for Systems Change
Narcissists: Are We Surrounded? On Science Vs: - Wendy Zukerman 2024 Science VS Podcast
Human Raised: Nurturing Connection, Curiosity, & Lifelong Learning in the Age - Dana Suskind, MD 2026 Book
The Killing Stones A Detective Jimmy Perez Novel - Ann Cleeves 2025 Book
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Welcome to The Curiosity Shop! In the inaugural episode, Brené and Adam discuss how a public disagreement about authenticity almost ended their relationship before it began. For the first time, they discuss where they went wrong, why they changed their minds about each other, and what they learned about repair and trust. They also explore what healthy authenticity looks like, and dive into the many things they may still never fully see eye to eye on – from email vs. texting to remote work to faith.
Show Notes
Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT Op-Ed
The Fine Line Between Helpful and Harmful Authenticity - Adam Grant 2020 NYT
Authenticity Is a Double-Edged Sword - Adam Grant 2020 WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast
My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown LinkedIn 2016
The Dangers of Being Authentic - Adam Grant LinkedIn 2016
In Tough Times, Psychological Safety Is a Requirement, Not a Luxury - Michael Blanding 2025 HBR
Jecker & Landy: Liking a person as a function of doing him a favour - Jecker & Landy 1969 APA PsycNet
Adam Grant on The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know - Brené Brown and Adam Grant 2021 Dare To Lead Podcast
Brené Brown on What Vulnerability Isn’t - Adam Grant and Brené Brown 2023 Re: Thinking Ted Audio Collective
A Whole New Mind (Right-Brainers will Rule the Future) - Daniel H. Pink 2005 Book
The Neuroscience of You: How Every Brain Is Different and How to Understand Yours - Chantel Prat 2022 Book
Dr. Harriet Lerner on I’m Sorry: How to Apologize and Why It Matters, Part 1 of 2 - Brené Brown and Dr. Harriet Lerner 2020 Unlocking Us Podcast
Happy Gilmore Scene - I’m Stupid You’re Smart - Happy Gilmore 1996 Movie
Shame and Guilt - June Price Tangney 2002 Book
Daniel Kahneman: Doesn't Trust Your Intuition - Adam Grant and Daniel Kahneman 2021 Re:Thinking
But yes, Blue Jays are master mimics
Sponsor List
Thank you to SAS and Canva!
Chapters Titles + Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
3:26 - Our First Disagreement
18:45 - Our Path Here
28:31 - Approach to Repair an Apology
51:02 - Closing Question
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Research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant are partnering on a new weekly podcast grounded in an unflinching commitment to learning and unlearning. At a time when public discourse rewards certainty over inquiry, The Curiosity Shop will see two of the world’s most influential thought leaders make the case for slowing down, asking better questions, and embracing informed complexity over easy answers. Bringing together their left and right brain sensibilities — she’s a qualitative researcher; he’s a quantitative researcher — they will explore some of the defining questions of our time, unpack the research reshaping how we live, lead, and love, and dive deep into the ideas, evidence, and cultural moments intriguing them the most. Tune in for the first episode on Thursday, March 19!
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In the second part of an Ask Me Anything episode around Strong Ground, Brené shares an excerpt from the Strong Ground audiobook that walks listeners through the one topic that elicited the most questions — the Above/Below the Line practice. This is one of the most profound self-awareness tools we discovered!
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In part one of an Ask Me Anything episode around Strong Ground, Brené answers questions from listeners about mindset shifts, leading from where you are, and courage and boldness in uncertain times. She highlights the importance of pausing during big decisions where action is not always impact, breaks down how to be courageous when it’s not the popular choice, and emphasizes the role of curiosity and thoughtfulness when moving through uncertainty and overwhelm.
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